Hull City v Ipswich Town preview and matchday thread

[lucy]

keep the faith. Mick will keep us up

Very good.

As demonstrated by ITFC tonight; changing things doesn't always work wonders.

And AndyM said the other week, "Knudsen is a disaster" (or words to that effect) and now Mike passing comment on the woefullness....., please leave, Knudsen. I saw you against Reading, or was it Birmingham?...., either/or; you suck.

Only good thing about Knudsen is his long throw in.

[Shed on tour]

Have to admit this post by somebody on TWTD made me laugh.

Forest haven't won at home since August 15th

To quote Mrs. Doubtfire 'Help is on the way, dears...'

[Andym]

We shouldn't be in a position where that even comes into it

What I mean is, we should be challenging the promotion places - as with last season.

I'm afraid I don't agree.

We probably have one of the cheapest squads in the division. As I have said so often, it's not just creativity we lack, it's the ability to control the ball and make a simple pass that lets us down. McCarthy builds his team on effort. But effort only covers up a bed defence (2 fullbacks who aren't up to it and a central defender playing on the wrong side) if you can take the pressure off them...which you can't do if you can't keep possession.

On the subject of effort: On Saturday, I recall seeing Niles on the ball in the second half - who was no worse than anyone else - and he looked up and made a poor pass resulting in some moans and groans. But the other 10 players, without exception, were absolutely static. Without effort we are nothing.

McCarthy did a great job in keeping us up when he arrived. He did it by tightening the defence and we had more clean sheets than the Pope. But since then we have conceded far too often, and this season the defence is a shambles. As I've said in previous posts, I think the formation hasn't helped, as our wide players offer little cover (Niles in particular).

Last season's success was largely down to Murphy scoring a few and then having the confidence to go on and on scoring. But we have a team now without confidence and it's going to take a lot to change that.

The only thing that puzzles me is how we managed to play a bit of decent football in the first month - better than for most of last season's hoofball - and then lose it and revert to mediocrity.

In my opinion nothing will change without a change of approach, going for players with ability on the ball and / or a change of manager.

[Charnwood]

We shouldn't be in a position where that even comes into it

What I mean is, we should be challenging the promotion places - as with last season.

I'm afraid I don't agree.

We probably have one of the cheapest squads in the division. As I have said so often, it's not just creativity we lack, it's the ability to control the ball and make a simple pass that lets us down. McCarthy builds his team on effort. But effort only covers up a bed defence (2 fullbacks who aren't up to it and a central defender playing on the wrong side) if you can take the pressure off them...which you can't do if you can't keep possession.

On the subject of effort: On Saturday, I recall seeing Niles on the ball in the second half - who was no worse than anyone else - and he looked up and made a poor pass resulting in some moans and groans. But the other 10 players, without exception, were absolutely static. Without effort we are nothing.

McCarthy did a great job in keeping us up when he arrived. He did it by tightening the defence and we had more clean sheets than the Pope. But since then we have conceded far too often, and this season the defence is a shambles. As I've said in previous posts, I think the formation hasn't helped, as our wide players offer little cover (Niles in particular).

Last season's success was largely down to Murphy scoring a few and then having the confidence to go on and on scoring. But we have a team now without confidence and it's going to take a lot to change that.

The only thing that puzzles me is how we managed to play a bit of decent football in the first month - better than for most of last season's hoofball - and then lose it and revert to mediocrity.

In my opinion nothing will change without a change of approach, going for players with ability on the ball and / or a change of manager.

Can't disagree with any of that, nicely put and hits the nail on the head.

[lucy]

Have to admit this post by somebody on TWTD made me laugh.

Forest haven't won at home since August 15th

To quote Mrs. Doubtfire 'Help is on the way, dears...'

I'm going to this so I do hope your wrong

[herforder]

The brutal fact is that, however the team is set up, and whoever wears the shirts, our squad lacks sufficient quality in depth to sustain what was achieved last season and the beginning of this. We can offer widely differing options on player selection, MM's tactics and apparent reluctance to abandon/tinker with Plan A - because there isn't an effective, game changing, Plan B available.

Given ME's continued investment to meet the annual gap between income and expenditure, without which we wouldn't exist, the appointment of a manager apparently content to operate on very limited player investment, yet able to achieve play-off status, must have seemed the near perfect solution. And so it has proven, with the majority of supporters firmly on board - until now. Loss of individual and team confidence, injuries to those with higher skill levels, opposition teams raising their games and targeting our weaknesses, have ultimately exposed ME's gamble of paying top dollar for a manager able to operate on a 'paying competitive wages' basis, as beginning to fail. Unsurprisingly, with expectations raised to unrealistic levels, and having to witness a succession of poor performances/results, supporters' discontent is starting to gather momentum, and may ultimately prove fatal to MM's future. Unless........

[marko69]

Have to admit this post by somebody on TWTD made me laugh.

Forest haven't won at home since August 15th

To quote Mrs. Doubtfire 'Help is on the way, dears...'

That is superb.

[marko69]

You don't post as much these days, Herforder. Just busy? Certainly miss your caption attempts. Always good stuff.

[number 9]

We shouldn't be in a position where that even comes into it

What I mean is, we should be challenging the promotion places - as with last season.

I'm afraid I don't agree.

We probably have one of the cheapest squads in the division. As I have said so often, it's not just creativity we lack, it's the ability to control the ball and make a simple pass that lets us down. McCarthy builds his team on effort. But effort only covers up a bed defence (2 fullbacks who aren't up to it and a central defender playing on the wrong side) if you can take the pressure off them...which you can't do if you can't keep possession.

On the subject of effort: On Saturday, I recall seeing Niles on the ball in the second half - who was no worse than anyone else - and he looked up and made a poor pass resulting in some moans and groans. But the other 10 players, without exception, were absolutely static. Without effort we are nothing.

McCarthy did a great job in keeping us up when he arrived. He did it by tightening the defence and we had more clean sheets than the Pope. But since then we have conceded far too often, and this season the defence is a shambles. As I've said in previous posts, I think the formation hasn't helped, as our wide players offer little cover (Niles in particular).

Last season's success was largely down to Murphy scoring a few and then having the confidence to go on and on scoring. But we have a team now without confidence and it's going to take a lot to change that.

The only thing that puzzles me is how we managed to play a bit of decent football in the first month - better than for most of last season's hoofball - and then lose it and revert to mediocrity.

In my opinion nothing will change without a change of approach, going for players with ability on the ball and / or a change of manager.

Can't disagree with any of that, nicely put and hits the nail on the head.

I think many of us have felt the same way. I've often said, 'you get what you pay for'. MM hasn't become a bad manager over night...he's doing his best to 'polish the turd' at the moment. Of course, our 'Scouts' have to take some of the blame...MM's relying on their expertise to bring in good players. So far, the only new addition to the squad who's had an impact is Fraser and he wasn't found by the Scouts. Knudsen is constantly criticized for being shyte, the Polish defender can't even make the first team, AMN is learning his trade at the expense of ITFC's p*ss poor form, Pitman has gone missing (no wonder Bournemouth didn't want him), Coke and Toure sounds like a new fizzy drink! When will it end!? If I was MM I'd say bollocks and go 4-3-3 at Forest with Murphy, Sears and McGoldrick up front. Attack Attack Attack...if we can't defend from the rear, then lets defend from the front!

[marko69]

If I was MM I'd say bollocks and go 4-3-3 at Forest with Murphy, Sears and McGoldrick up front. Attack Attack Attack...if we can't defend from the rear, then lets defend from the front!

In the words & voice of Barry Norman......, "And why not!"

[ashfordblue]

I think that Knudsen needs a spell out on loan to bolster his ability, he just aint cut out for the LB position in the championship, its no good just having a long throw in your arsenal, he needs to step up his understanding of that position, and don't stand off 5 yards from the attacking player, same goes for Chambers, he gets skinned far too easily, but he's a CB, not a full back, why oh why Mick persists in keeping him there God only knows, I would like to see two more experienced fullbacks brought in on loan, similar stature to Cressy & Mings, just to shore up the FB weak spots, and put Bart back between the sticks and give Gerken a rest, poor B******d must be shell shocked with the crap defending and closing down in front of him, he needs to bend a few ears with some choice words for that cack defending, I cant for the life of me see where we might just kick start our season again, I suppose it will happen, BUT when and who against, I mean teams below us have had results against us, and as someone else has said, that Forest aint won at home since August 15th, we sure as eggs are eggs will give them that win, Mick wants to think himself arsehole lucky he aint at Leeds, as he would have been gone weeks ago, so lets see how it goes, and if we haven't strung a good winning run by Christmas, Mick can deem that he's failed again, just like at Wolves, and fall on the sword, we will certainly need another BFJoe or Sir Bob to come to our rescue and kick start a revival.

[bluejacko]

keep the faith. Mick will keep us up

Very good.

As demonstrated by ITFC tonight; changing things doesn't always work wonders.

And AndyM said the other week, "Knudsen is a disaster" (or words to that effect) and now Mike passing comment on the woefullness....., please leave, Knudsen. I saw you against Reading, or was it Birmingham?...., either/or; you suck.

Only good thing about Knudsen is his long throw in.

Depends on what you change!all the rest of the team apart from the people who are shipping all the bloody goals!

[arana peligrosa]

We shouldn't be in a position where that even comes into it

What I mean is, we should be challenging the promotion places - as with last season.

I'm afraid I don't agree.

We probably have one of the cheapest squads in the division. As I have said so often, it's not just creativity we lack, it's the ability to control the ball and make a simple pass that lets us down. McCarthy builds his team on effort. But effort only covers up a bed defence (2 fullbacks who aren't up to it and a central defender playing on the wrong side) if you can take the pressure off them...which you can't do if you can't keep possession.

On the subject of effort: On Saturday, I recall seeing Niles on the ball in the second half - who was no worse than anyone else - and he looked up and made a poor pass resulting in some moans and groans. But the other 10 players, without exception, were absolutely static. Without effort we are nothing.

McCarthy did a great job in keeping us up when he arrived. He did it by tightening the defence and we had more clean sheets than the Pope. But since then we have conceded far too often, and this season the defence is a shambles. As I've said in previous posts, I think the formation hasn't helped, as our wide players offer little cover (Niles in particular).

Last season's success was largely down to Murphy scoring a few and then having the confidence to go on and on scoring. But we have a team now without confidence and it's going to take a lot to change that.

The only thing that puzzles me is how we managed to play a bit of decent football in the first month - better than for most of last season's hoofball - and then lose it and revert to mediocrity.

In my opinion nothing will change without a change of approach, going for players with ability on the ball and / or a change of manager.

Can't disagree with any of that, nicely put and hits the nail on the head.

It's easy to overlook isn't it. Without Murphy being top-scorer how well would we really have done ? Similar (albeit at a lower level) when Liverpool had Suarez for that one season and caused a sensation but it was very short lived.

Point I was trying to make, we endured so much sh*t under Jewell and Keane - years best forgotten - where the club was going nowhere fast, and McCarthy made a difference thereafter and what we did last season was good to be a part of, but we're on a downward spiral where any hope of another play-off opportunity is fading fast and as mentioned, have to entertain the possibility of looking behind at the realism of a relegation battle.

Ok it probably won't come to that but after the success from before, would be hoping for more of the same, and not stuck in a mid-league obscurity.

[derick_ipsw]

That's a 4-5-1 all day. 4-3-3 unbelievable.

Well he tried something different the 4-5-1 in the first half, and it did not work. Just think how bad it would of been if he had gone with what somebody suggested the 4-3-3!!

[derick_ipsw]

That's a 4-5-1 all day. 4-3-3 unbelievable.

Well he tried something different the 4-5-1 in the first half, and it did not work. Just think how bad it would of been if he had gone with what somebody suggested the 4-3-3!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34512551. Confirmed.

[number 9]

That's a 4-5-1 all day. 4-3-3 unbelievable.

Well he tried something different the 4-5-1 in the first half, and it did not work. Just think how bad it would of been if he had gone with what somebody suggested the 4-3-3!!

I'm the somebody who suggested 4-3-3 against Forest. I'm trying to think out of the box, mate. I'd suggest you do the same; I think your wife would appreciate it haha!?

[Andym]

That's a 4-5-1 all day. 4-3-3 unbelievable.

Well he tried something different the 4-5-1 in the first half, and it did not work. Just think how bad it would of been if he had gone with what somebody suggested the 4-3-3!!

I'm the somebody who suggested 4-3-3 against Forest. I'm trying to think out of the box, mate. I'd suggest you do the same; I think your wife would appreciate it haha!?

There is not a huge difference between 4-5-1 and 4-3-3. In 4-5-1 you rely on the wide players getting forward, essentially making it 4-3-3.

I think we've played our best football with a 4-3-3 system. The advantage is a tighter central midfield. The disadvantage is there is less protection down the wings for fullbacks, and you need overlapping fullbacks to provide width going forward. So it worked when we had Cresswell or Mings. but won't any more.

On another note, I saw this on the EADT website, a comment from a fan:

"Bar August where all looked rosy we haven't come close to hitting heights of November and December last year where the bar was raised.

We've conceded lots of goals, we haven't played great football....and we went from top of the league on Boxing Day to sneaking into the play offs due to Derby collapsing at home to Reading. We tended to just pick up a result when we needed one, rather than stringing any sort of form together.

In 2015 we have played 34 league games.

We have won 13, lost 13 (with 8 draws).

We have averaged 1.38 points per game which over a 46 game season would mean we amass 64 points. That would leave us firmly entrenched in mid table.

It's been a gradual decline and it's not a blip or loss of form. We have not been particularly good in 2015 and it's showing no signs of improving."

I think that's a pretty good summing up of where we are. Not in a blip, but in consistent mid-table (hopefully no lower) mediocrity.

[Tangfastic]

It's been a gradual decline and it's not a blip or loss of form. We have not been particularly good in 2015 and it's showing no signs of improving

I think that's a pretty good summing up of where we are. Not in a blip, but in consistent mid-table (hopefully no lower) mediocrity.

I agree its not a blip... taking the latter stages of last season into account.

Mick has also stated that there was hardly anything in it between 6th place and mid-table obscurity - just having a 27 goal striker tipped the balance. Mick just seems resigned to plugging away.... same old, same old.... hoping it clicks and get a break or our opposition slips up.

I've got no problem in facing we're a mid-table side now, as long as we don't accept it too easily. Mick just doesn't seem to want to tinker with anything too much. The fans have not been asking for wholesale changes - just questioning why Parr is not being brought in as a made to measure full back and/or Bru being brought in to offer something different in midfield. If we're a mid table side - so be it - but at least show some ambition... some initiative. I can totally understand if you make too many unforced changes its the first sign of panic - but we have had other options and Mick will resolutely not consider them. If we don't have any reasonable other options - then Mick is responsible as well from a recruitment standpoint . No point in having competition for places up front if we don't have personnel to supply the ammunition.

What will happen if Chambers, for example, is dropped / 'rested' ? Will the world explode????!!!!! I'm hearing that Chambers can't be dropped by some because he's too important and too inspirational as a captain.... I need that explaining to me as our defense has been shipping more goals going back to last season and we're looking downbeat and ... uninspired! I know Chambo's a great club captain... but would prefer a quiet, assured captain on the field leading by example. Fist-pumping and badge-clutching only gets you so far. Anyway, doesn't matter about Chambo - Knudsen's now the main cause of concern in defence.

Apart from that - really like Mick and bloody glad he came in and turned things around 3 years ago - different situation now though - but his words and actions now seemed to appear that we have to endure a game of football, rather than actually look forward to it. I'm living of loyalty and gratitude with Mick at the moment and so hoping no need for the MICK OUT route yet.... but does football have to be such a hardship. When we lose to a crap side we hear any team can beat anyone -when we play Hull - everyone including posidivas - write it off as a sure loss. Why the acceptance that we can't do better?

[Andym]

Apart from that - really like Mick and bloody glad he came in and turned things around 3 years ago - different situation now though - but his words and actions now seemed to appear that we have to endure a game of football, rather than actually look forward to it.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I never expect promotion. It's nice to win but I can live with defeat. What I can't live with is the appalling quality of football we watch. I know I keep repeating myself but I don't understand how an entire team of professional footballers who are paid so much money are so poor at controlling a ball and making a pass. To me, football is such a simple game. You have possession, you move into space. You lose possession you get tight. All 3 goals on Tuesday came from crosses where the wide player crossing the ball was given miles of space.

[marko69]

To me, football is such a simple game. You have possession, you move into space. You lose possession you get tight. All 3 goals on Tuesday came from crosses where the wide player crossing the ball was given miles of space.

Exactly Andy.........., ITFC were being courteous and allowing Hull to play the game as it should be played, in its simplest form!

I am joking of course and adding some spin on your words........, they do need to get tighter. I feel there is more chance of people shutting the f*ck up about "Back to the Future Day" than Knudsen getting tight on a defender.

[The Odious Mr Rossi]

It's been a gradual decline and it's not a blip or loss of form. We have not been particularly good in 2015 and it's showing no signs of improving

I think that's a pretty good summing up of where we are. Not in a blip, but in consistent mid-table (hopefully no lower) mediocrity.

I agree its not a blip... taking the latter stages of last season into account.

Mick has also stated that there was hardly anything in it between 6th place and mid-table obscurity - just having a 27 goal striker tipped the balance. Mick just seems resigned to plugging away.... same old, same old.... hoping it clicks and get a break or our opposition slips up.

I've got no problem in facing we're a mid-table side now, as long as we don't accept it too easily. Mick just doesn't seem to want to tinker with anything too much. The fans have not been asking for wholesale changes - just questioning why Parr is not being brought in as a made to measure full back and/or Bru being brought in to offer something different in midfield. If we're a mid table side - so be it - but at least show some ambition... some initiative. I can totally understand if you make too many unforced changes its the first sign of panic - but we have had other options and Mick will resolutely not consider them. If we don't have any reasonable other options - then Mick is responsible as well from a recruitment standpoint . No point in having competition for places up front if we don't have personnel to supply the ammunition.

What will happen if Chambers, for example, is dropped / 'rested' ? Will the world explode????!!!!! I'm hearing that Chambers can't be dropped by some because he's too important and too inspirational as a captain.... I need that explaining to me as our defense has been shipping more goals going back to last season and we're looking downbeat and ... uninspired! I know Chambo's a great club captain... but would prefer a quiet, assured captain on the field leading by example. Fist-pumping and badge-clutching only gets you so far. Anyway, doesn't matter about Chambo - Knudsen's now the main cause of concern in defence.

Apart from that - really like Mick and bloody glad he came in and turned things around 3 years ago - different situation now though - but his words and actions now seemed to appear that we have to endure a game of football, rather than actually look forward to it. I'm living of loyalty and gratitude with Mick at the moment and so hoping no need for the MICK OUT route yet.... but does football have to be such a hardship. When we lose to a crap side we hear any team can beat anyone -when we play Hull - everyone including posidivas - write it off as a sure loss. Why the acceptance that we can't do better?

Yes, I remember reading - with some amusement - a comment by a member of this board that Chambers cannot be dropped because he is such an inspirational captain (sic).
Obviously he has been inspiring the team - inspiring them to play badly by his own dismal performances.
He's not a right back, so why has he been played there? Either play him in his proper position or drop him.