France vs Germany

[number 9]

I'm not sure what the score was when bombs exploded in close proximity to the Stade de France, tonight. What am sure of is the impact of media reports that Paris has been attacked by terrorists. Hundreds of innocent humans have been killed in the name of some sort of perverted ideology that has infected the Muslim religion resulting in extremism. Consequently, I am angry and astonished that NATO has not reacted to the threat of "cults' like ISIS. Equally, I'm disappointed that the American government is reluctant to put boots on the ground to exterminate this disease. If there was any reason to go to WAR it is now. ISIS and Hitler are one and the same...It's time to cut the head off the snake. It's time to go to WAR!

[Floors]

Shocked and stunned by the news, its difficult to understand why people do things like this. Unfortunately though there is number of these types amount us and probably more arriving everyday.

[ATB]

I'm not sure what the score was when bombs exploded in close proximity to the Stade de France, tonight. What am sure of is the impact of media reports that Paris has been attacked by terrorists. Hundreds of innocent humans have been killed in the name of some sort of perverted ideology that has infected the Muslim religion resulting in extremism. Consequently, I am angry and astonished that NATO has not reacted to the threat of "cults' like ISIS. Equally, I'm disappointed that the American government is reluctant to put boots on the ground to exterminate this disease. If there was any reason to go to WAR it is now. ISIS and Hitler are one and the same...It's time to cut the head off the snake. It's time to go to WAR!

It's really not as easy as simply going to war and defeating ISIS. The last 200 years is littered with failed attempts of military intervention in the middle east and there's little proof to say that another boots on the ground event won't be any different.

The other thing which most people don't realise is that ISIS actually want military intervention. They believe in a prophecy that it is their destiny to bring on the apocolypse when the armies of Rome (i.e the West) are defeated in Daqib (a small town in northern syria).

Any intervention will guarantee the death of 1000s of civilians and 1000s of troops and even then it won't solve the problem.

[number 9]

I don't think I said it would be easy. It's just my opinion that it is time to be more aggressive toward the extremists. I also think NATO should be playing a bigger role in the fight against terrorism.

My condolences to the families who have lost their loved ones in France.

[Bluemike]

Unfortunately it is a war we can NEVER win.

My thoughts are with the people of France.

[Floors]

Unfortunately it is a war we can NEVER win.

My thoughts are with the people of France.

True, we cannot fight an enemy who is quite willing to die for their warped ideals. To many innocents have been killed in the past few days. What with the Russian plane and now this outrage.
But something has to be done and done now.

[marko69]

Can't get my head around the attacks on Paris at all. Just can't comprehend this type of nightmare. Enjoying yourself at a rock gig one minute, then the next minute you are trying your hardest to save your life, crippled with fear while a bunch of f**king lunatic religious nutcases open fire. Just cannot imagine it at all.

Looking at some of the places on TV; the Chatelet Les Halles shopping centre where the gunmen were shooting and blowing themselves up, I had a f**king Big Mac meal at a McDonald's in that very centre 18 months ago. In fact the entire area of last nights events (not the stadium) is between Gare De Bercy and Gare Du Nord railway stations, both myself and the wife walked the entire way as it was a roasting hot day on that day the train arrived back from Italy into Bercy. Both of us finding it difficult seeing the places on TV this morning in the light of day. I fear for my son living in London, because let's face it, it's only a matter of time before all the Euro capitals start being targeted, Edinburgh included. As completely scary as it sounds, but there are horrific times ahead.

[barmy billy]

Can't get my head around the attacks on Paris at all. Just can't comprehend this type of nightmare. Enjoying yourself at a rock gig one minute, then the next minute you are trying your hardest to save your life, crippled with fear while a bunch of f**king lunatic religious nutcases open fire. Just cannot imagine it at all.

Looking at some of the places on TV; the Chatelet Les Halles shopping centre where the gunmen were shooting and blowing themselves up, I had a f**king Big Mac meal at a McDonald's in that very centre 18 months ago. In fact the entire area of last nights events (not the stadium) is between Gare De Bercy and Gare Du Nord railway stations, both myself and the wife walked the entire way as it was a roasting hot day on that day the train arrived back from Italy into Bercy. Both of us finding it difficult seeing the places on TV this morning in the light of day. I fear for my son living in London, because let's face it, it's only a matter of time before all the Euro capitals start being targeted, Edinburgh included. As completely scary as it sounds, but there are horrific times ahead.

A very difficult and emotive issue Marko to which there is no easy solution and which has been made worse by the exodus of immigrants into Europe in recent months. After all, IS did say they would be sending jihadists with the refugees.

I think I'm right in thinking IS want to establish a caliphate in the whole of the Middle East, including Iran and Irag. As much as I detest war I think the answer will be for other Middle Eastern counties along with Eastern and western powers to eradicate them. I certainly fear for our children and grand-children otherwise.

[marko69]

The western world will step in when it starts affecting the f**king stock exchange. Tourism will severely drop, the monetary cycle will be affected, the stock exchange starts to go haywire, that's when the alarm bells start ringing in the "Heads" of State. Absolutely Fk all to do with the loss of human life. Cameron and Obama can waffle on all they want about this, that and the other......., those f**king puppets are controlled by higher entities.

[arana peligrosa]

This was all over TWTD last we looked in. Things getting over heated and all with difference of opinion with some 70 per cent of all responses were putting previous posters right about their choice of words, or opinion, on yesterdays atrocities.

Who were the actual belligerents behind this latest (heinous) crime ? Guess it's already been established by now without mention of various parties. Hard to say much on the matter as talk can degenerate (as it has on other forums) if you say the wrong thing or someone doesn't concur with opinion.

Only to add : offer sincere condolences to the families of all involved, their friends and loved ones. Due to be in Belgium in a week or two so (obviously not appearing selfish to the lives lost) will keep a watch on how this may disrupt travel arrangements.

We invariably try to advocate "World Peace" but in reality it's a scenario that simply won't occur - can't occur. So long as there are those against the ideas of others there will always be propensity for trouble. Sympathies once again to the families involved.

[herforder]

Profound sympathy for the families and friends of those killed in these horrific attacks; and hope that those badly injured, or fighting for their lives, will survive and be able to resume their lives. Lives forever changed.

In many respects anywhere on mainland Europe presents easy terrorist targets, aided by the current mass migration issue, and the ease of acquiring weapons. The Middle East has been riven by conflict since biblical times, with no political or military solutions bringing a sustained peace. Sadly, it is likely to continue, with ISIS being the latest manifestation of the evil stemming from warped ideology.

However, we have to remain strong and determined not to be intimated by extremists full of hatred. Support for all those engaged in fighting those forces of evil - intelligence services, armed forces, police etc - is paramount. These cowardly, murdering, bastards must not be allowed to inflict fear and terror on the innocent in pursuit of their - ultimately unobtainable - objectives. Be strong, be united never give in.

[The Don]

"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for"

I agree with the second part.

[derick_ipsw]

We need to send a sign to the fanatics that we have had enough. Nuke Syria and then tell them if you f**k with us anymore we will nuke Iraq. They will get the message then, trust me. What's the point of having nukes when they know very well we wont use them. They aint know deterrent. "NUKE THE FU*KERS".

[Tangfastic]

We need to send a sign to the fanatics that we have had enough. Nuke Syria and then tell them if you f**k with us anymore we will nuke Iraq. They will get the message then, trust me. What's the point of having nukes when they know very well we wont use them. They aint know deterrent. "NUKE THE FU*KERS".

Derick, who are we exactly fighting? The countries of Iraq and Syria? The ones who are planting bombs and spraying innocent people with bullets are also killing local, innocent people in Syria and Iraq .. and elsewhere.

And whats the point of trying scare them with bombs? They're strapping bombs to themselves anyway.

I haven't got any fancy solution.. but I hope the Islamic community makes a statement soon that these crazy fuckers are tarnishing them by doing this in the name of Allah. ISIS seems to have a powerful recruitment network in Islamic communities - so stop that and starve them of new recruits and support.

One perhaps crumb of comfort.... a lot of us grew up living with week to week news of IRA bombings / sectarian killings in Northern Ireland. Not saying its all completely rosy - but time has been a great healer there.

[marko69]

"Trust me" Derick? Your one and only point of reference is Japan. And yes, that ended WW2. You must remember though, that was a world war amongst the military armies of the world. And again, yes, it brought Japan to its knees in surrender.

But this is completely different. They may call themselves an army or a group or whatever, but the fact is, they are random "you" & "me's" joining up, brainwashed into fighting their warped cause. The actual "cause" more than likely forgotten along the way. They are dotted all over the globe. They are probably in this very country, more than likely dotted amongst the refugees. Nuking Syria or Iraq will only make the actual problem ten times worse. It may halt things for a few years, but, like true "Sand People", they'll be back, and in greater numbers.

Edit: For the record, I do not have any idea how to solve this problem. I just know that Nukes won't stop it.

[Bluemike]

If they don't want it to end it will never end, there really is no answer to how to stop this because quite simply you can't. This is now a way of life that will only get worse.

[Tangfastic]

If they don't want it to end it will never end, there really is no answer to how to stop this because quite simply you can't. This is now a way of life that will only get worse.

Jeez Mike.... you're the most crazily optimistic person on this site

If you think Town can go on a 5 game winning streak.... then there has to be a bit of hope.

Good people outnumber bad people.....I'm sure of that... so that's why I have hope.

[Bluemike]

If they don't want it to end it will never end, there really is no answer to how to stop this because quite simply you can't. This is now a way of life that will only get worse.

Jeez Mike.... you're the most crazily optimistic person on this site

If you think Town can go on a 5 game winning streak.... then there has to be a bit of hope.

Good people outnumber bad people.....I'm sure of that... so that's why I have hope.

I am optimistic yes but this is evil beyond belief, it makes the IRA look meek to be perfectly honest. I hope I am wrong but I can see this going on forever and a day.

[number 9]

There will always be extremists in society for whatever cause. Consequently, society will always have to fight the effects of extremism on the civilized population. That's key, we can never stop "fighting" extremism. It will require multi-national coalitions and sharing of intelligence. The French government has revealed there are more than 3800 identified extremists in France alone. The French government has also acknowledged it does not have the resources to follow those extremists. Other countries should offer intelligence assistance and sharing to monitor terrorist cells all over the world. Further, intelligence agencies must increase psychological operations in communities to counter the roots of extremism at the most fundamental levels (ie. schools, social media, religious organizations). A military coalition must be expanded to attack Isis in Iraq and Syria directly. Many have said this is a war we can't win. That may be true. However, a sustained bombing operation in addition to ground troops for land reclamation will certainly limit and shrink the financial and propaganda machine that Isis currently maintains. Extremism won't go away, so the world will have to ally to limit the effects on civilized society.

[Bluemike]

And by the way we are 40% on the way thorugh that 5 game winning streak LOL.

[Tangfastic]

And by the way we are 40% on the way thorugh that 5 game winning streak LOL.

I thought that started with the 0-0 draw?

[Tangfastic]

There will always be extremists in society for whatever cause. Consequently, society will always have to fight the effects of extremism on the civilized population. That's key, we can never stop "fighting" extremism. It will require multi-national coalitions and sharing of intelligence. The French government has revealed there are more than 3800 identified extremists in France alone. The French government has also acknowledged it does not have the resources to follow those extremists. Other countries should offer intelligence assistance and sharing to monitor terrorist cells all over the world. Further, intelligence agencies must increase psychological operations in communities to counter the roots of extremism at the most fundamental levels (ie. schools, social media, religious organizations). A military coalition must be expanded to attack Isis in Iraq and Syria directly. Many have said this is a war we can't win. That may be true. However, a sustained bombing operation in addition to ground troops for land reclamation will certainly limit and shrink the financial and propaganda machine that Isis currently maintains. Extremism won't go away, so the world will have to ally to limit the effects on civilized society.

Maybe need to get this to Cameron, etc.... not sure any of us on this forum can pull strings.

[number 9]

There will always be extremists in society for whatever cause. Consequently, society will always have to fight the effects of extremism on the civilized population. That's key, we can never stop "fighting" extremism. It will require multi-national coalitions and sharing of intelligence. The French government has revealed there are more than 3800 identified extremists in France alone. The French government has also acknowledged it does not have the resources to follow those extremists. Other countries should offer intelligence assistance and sharing to monitor terrorist cells all over the world. Further, intelligence agencies must increase psychological operations in communities to counter the roots of extremism at the most fundamental levels (ie. schools, social media, religious organizations). A military coalition must be expanded to attack Isis in Iraq and Syria directly. Many have said this is a war we can't win. That may be true. However, a sustained bombing operation in addition to ground troops for land reclamation will certainly limit and shrink the financial and propaganda machine that Isis currently maintains. Extremism won't go away, so the world will have to ally to limit the effects on civilized society.

Maybe need to get this to Cameron, etc.... not sure any of us on this forum can pull strings.

Yeah you're right mate, this probably isn't the forum to discuss such serious issues. What happened in Paris has just really affecting me...all those innocent lives. It may be time for the forum moderators to move this thread into another section...or delete it if deemed inappropriate.

[barmy billy]

There will always be extremists in society for whatever cause. Consequently, society will always have to fight the effects of extremism on the civilized population. That's key, we can never stop "fighting" extremism. It will require multi-national coalitions and sharing of intelligence. The French government has revealed there are more than 3800 identified extremists in France alone. The French government has also acknowledged it does not have the resources to follow those extremists. Other countries should offer intelligence assistance and sharing to monitor terrorist cells all over the world. Further, intelligence agencies must increase psychological operations in communities to counter the roots of extremism at the most fundamental levels (ie. schools, social media, religious organizations). A military coalition must be expanded to attack Isis in Iraq and Syria directly. Many have said this is a war we can't win. That may be true. However, a sustained bombing operation in addition to ground troops for land reclamation will certainly limit and shrink the financial and propaganda machine that Isis currently maintains. Extremism won't go away, so the world will have to ally to limit the effects on civilized society.

Maybe need to get this to Cameron, etc.... not sure any of us on this forum can pull strings.

Yeah you're right mate, this probably isn't the forum to discuss such serious issues. What happened in Paris has just really affecting me...all those innocent lives. It may be time for the forum moderators to move this thread into another section...or delete it if deemed inappropriate.

I hope this topic won't be moved or deleted as I find it interesting to hear the views of regular contributors on something slightly off football. After all, this is one of the biggest things to potentially affect us all in our lifetime.

I think you are quite right Number 9 when you say the world will have to ally the overcome IS. How this can happen I have no idea, but the UN could be a start.

[Bluemike]

And by the way we are 40% on the way thorugh that 5 game winning streak LOL.

I thought that started with the 0-0 draw?

Stop splitting hairs lol. Any 5 game winning run would be a moral victory for me haha.

[herforder]

"I hope this topic won't be moved or deleted as I find it interesting to hear the views of regular contributors on something slightly off football. After all, this is one of the biggest things to potentially affect us all in our lifetime.

I think you are quite right Number 9 when you say the world will have to ally the overcome IS. How this can happen I have no idea, but the UN could be a start.[/quote]

Yes, some excellent comments and views - all heartfelt and sadly born out of a truly tragic situation.

In the complex area of middle eastern politics and alliances, significant military intervention against IS can only succeed on the back of political consensus and cooperation. In Syria, for example, this would see NATO Allance and Russian governments unite to defeat a common terrorist enemy, thereby creating an environment within which military forces could operate. Other ME/Arab nations would also need to buy-in and actively support those efforts.

Getting the political objectives right is critical, since the rise of IS can arguably be linked to the vacuum left in Iraq following the overthrow of Saddam Hussain - something not thought through in the rush to action. However difficult and seemingly intractable, political, religious and cultural differences have to be set aside: or risk further attacks, loss of innocent lives and the spread of pure fear. The stakes are too high to f**k it up.

[The Don]

Yeah you're right mate, this probably isn't the forum to discuss such serious issues. What happened in Paris has just really affecting me...all those innocent lives. It may be time for the forum moderators to move this thread into another section...or delete it if deemed inappropriate.

I hope this topic won't be moved or deleted as I find it interesting to hear the views of regular contributors on something slightly off football. After all, this is one of the biggest things to potentially affect us all in our lifetime.

I have no intention of moving this topic, let alone deleting it. This is the world we now live in and it is without doubt a topic that will naturally be discussed. If Tottenham and Arsenal can put out a joint message of solidarity with France, a football forum can discuss such issues.

Unfortunately this has become a way of life. Some things are just bigger than football.

[barmy billy]

Yeah you're right mate, this probably isn't the forum to discuss such serious issues. What happened in Paris has just really affecting me...all those innocent lives. It may be time for the forum moderators to move this thread into another section...or delete it if deemed inappropriate.

I hope this topic won't be moved or deleted as I find it interesting to hear the views of regular contributors on something slightly off football. After all, this is one of the biggest things to potentially affect us all in our lifetime.

I have no intention of moving this topic, let alone deleting it. This is the world we now live in and it is without doubt a topic that will naturally be discussed. If Tottenham and Arsenal can put out a joint message of solidarity with France, a football forum can discuss such issues.

Unfortunately this has become a way of life. Some things are just bigger than football.

Well said.