Derby A Spent Force

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herforder
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Derby A Spent Force

Post by herforder » Tue May 15, 2018 1:39 pm

Anyone who watched last night’s second leg play-off encounter at Craven Cottage would have - once again - witnessed distraught Derby supporters of all ages, some bawling their eyes out. Despite holding a 1-0 lead from the first leg, and not playing at all badly, they nevertheless saw their potential promotion to the PL snatched away by an even better Fulham team.

During the course of the match, Derby were able to bring on both Vydra and Nugent from the subs’ bench - to no avail. And, even with 6 mins of extra time, Fulham held on and saw the game out fairly comfortably.

And the reason for mentioning Derby’s grief is that it highlights the old chestnut: spending large amounts of loot is absolutely no guarantee of success. Something Derby in particular know a great deal about, and bear the scars. Chopping and changing managers, hoovering up the best available C’ship talent etc can count for nowt without solid foundations, stability and effective boardroom, coaching and backroom staff. Of couese there’s always a bit of luck involved. But quite often the harder a team works, and the more talented they are, the luckier they get. As for Fulham, i’m happy they’re in the Play-off final - the best footballing team we played, both home and away.

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Bluemike
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Re: Derby A Spent Force

Post by Bluemike » Tue May 15, 2018 2:25 pm

The best of it is many Town fans would love us to p*ss money away like Derby, as you say it guarantees nothing, the good news is I get to keep one of my fav away days next season, not to mention the obligatory Three points!!

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Charnwood
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Re: Derby A Spent Force

Post by Charnwood » Tue May 15, 2018 6:31 pm

I thought Derby played ok last night and looked far from a spent force, as expected they defended their 1 goal lead well in the first half and at times it looked like it might just be their night. If ever there was a weakness it was their lack of composure going forward and how easily they lost possession. They were eventually undone by a Fulham side who I thought were brilliant and well worth their win which could easily have been by a wider margin.

History suggested it could have been a difficult night for Fulham as only once in the previous 16 ocassions had the team that lost the first leg semi final progressed to the final.

As for Derby’s investment, I’d much prefer to see money spent than not spent, at least it shows ambition and I think some of their quality was there to be seen last night. I just hope for them that they already have most of the players they need as I suspect the flow of funds will probably dry up after missing out again this season.

I also like Gary Rowett and expect Derby County to be in the mix again next season, they just came up short against a better team on the night. For me their confinement to the Champioship had more to do with their lousy run of form after Christmas prior to which they looked more like automatic promotion candidates.

Stand out player last night for me was Ryan Sessagnon who unbelievablably at 17 has already notched up 80 first team appearances and is their leading goal scorer. What a talent.

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herforder
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Re: Derby A Spent Force

Post by herforder » Tue May 15, 2018 9:05 pm

Ah, my ‘spent force’ comment was a play on words, in connection with the amount of money they’ve expended without, as yet, achieving the success they so desperately desire; and perhaps believe is their right. I got that impression from a couple of their grand fromages during our win over them last term. To say they were totally gobsmacked on the night would be an understatement!

Of course spending sensible amounts of money is what we all want to see - there’s no doubt that the better the quality and strength in depth, the better your chances etc. But, as Hudersfield and Burnley show, it’s not just about the money. Having limited resources but maximum ambition aren’t totally incompatible.

But agree about the young Fulham lad - if you’re good enough, you’re old enough. Very different from MM’s view. Of course Derby will always be a major force within the Cship - and by the laws of statistics alone, will eventually reach the promised land. (Accepting, of course, that we’ll take 3 away points from them next season!)

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Re: Derby A Spent Force

Post by hallamblue » Tue May 15, 2018 9:51 pm

I wonder if Derby are likely to come under scrutiny from this pathetic Fair Play financial thingy . I dread to think how much they have spent in the last 4 seasons -yet still aren’t good enough for the PL!

What do we reckon? An average £30m per season spent on fees and wages? £120m ?!!!

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herforder
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Re: Derby A Spent Force

Post by herforder » Tue May 15, 2018 9:56 pm

hallamblue wrote:I wonder if Derby are likely to come under scrutiny from this pathetic Fair Play financial thingy . I dread to think how much they have spent in the last 4 seasons -yet still aren’t good enough for the PL!

What do we reckon? An average £30m per season spent on fees and wages? £120m ?!!!
So much money, so little to show for it! :wink:

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Ricco
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Re: Derby A Spent Force

Post by Ricco » Tue May 15, 2018 9:59 pm

Bluemike wrote:The best of it is many Town fans would love us to p*ss money away like Derby, as you say it guarantees nothing, the good news is I get to keep one of my fav away days next season, not to mention the obligatory Three points!!
You don't have to break even to be a good business and be doing the right thing, Tesla a company valued at £40,000,000,000 and it's never even turned a profit.

If the reward of just one season in the Premier league is worth £200m, and a £30m spend and loss each season should see you promoted in 5 years on average (£150m spend), then that's a wise investment. A risk and a gamble perhaps, but that's what these rich businessmen get in to football for, it's those kinds of risks and calculated gambles that more often than not made them so wealthy in the first place.

I don't know why I'm standing up for these fans who "would love us to p*ss money" as I don't associate myself with them, but to think that a business like this has to be run frugally and break even is wrong, yes they haven't gone up, but they have done better than us, and yes money doesn't guarantee success, but you won't find a man in the world that would disagree with it being an advantage.

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Re: Derby A Spent Force

Post by Bluemike » Tue May 15, 2018 10:23 pm

Have they done better than us ? yes they finished ahead of us but given their spending big deal, they will still line up in the same division as us next season and lost to us for the umpteenth time in a row on their own patch. I'm not sure that pound for pound they did any better than us at all.

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Re: Derby A Spent Force

Post by number 9 » Tue May 15, 2018 10:25 pm

Ricco wrote:
Bluemike wrote:The best of it is many Town fans would love us to p*ss money away like Derby, as you say it guarantees nothing, the good news is I get to keep one of my fav away days next season, not to mention the obligatory Three points!!
You don't have to break even to be a good business and be doing the right thing, Tesla a company valued at £40,000,000,000 and it's never even turned a profit.

If the reward of just one season in the Premier league is worth £200m, and a £30m spend and loss each season should see you promoted in 5 years on average (£150m spend), then that's a wise investment. A risk and a gamble perhaps, but that's what these rich businessmen get in to football for, it's those kinds of risks and calculated gambles that more often than not made them so wealthy in the first place.

I don't know why I'm standing up for these fans who "would love us to p*ss money" as I don't associate myself with them, but to think that a business like this has to be run frugally and break even is wrong, yes they haven't gone up, but they have done better than us, and yes money doesn't guarantee success, but you won't find a man in the world that would disagree with it being an advantage.
Tesla's not doing very well production wise, Ricco. I do admire Musk's ambition, though.

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Ricco
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Re: Derby A Spent Force

Post by Ricco » Tue May 15, 2018 10:45 pm

number 9 wrote:Tesla's not doing very well production wise, Ricco. I do admire Musk's ambition, though.
He's so unbelievably bonkers that he'll make it work. It was obvious with such crazy ambition they would fall short in some areas, but they're still producing, makes a nice change to see ambition and positivity in the news rather than Trumps mug.
Bluemike wrote:Have they done better than us ? yes they finished ahead of us but given their spending big deal, they will still line up in the same division as us next season and lost to us for the umpteenth time in a row on their own patch. I'm not sure that pound for pound they did any better than us at all.
Pound for pound value wise we've done amazingly compared to them and just about everyone, I'm proud of that and would hate someone like Keane to come in and chuck money around, but you have to speculate to accumulate and from 12th to the playoffs is a big jump that I never saw us making with big Mick and his "this is the best we can expect" attitude. Maybe a new direction with a new manager might work wonders and get some team spirit firing us up the table, but without a bit of investment, I think that's a bit clutching at straws. They should still have something to show for that money too, their players are assets and I bet they've kept more bums on seats than our stagnation.

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Re: Derby A Spent Force

Post by saint jude » Tue May 15, 2018 11:25 pm

Maybe some degree of animosity regards clubs although hard to pinpoint exact point of origin. Norwich apart I invariably feel a level of sympathy for any team that fails in a Championship play-off opportunity - after all it's a long hard season for all involved and whether they've spent a fortune or shirt buttons in order to challenge it's all turned to sh*t for them and face another nine months from August mounting another challenge.

Furthermore, hasn't gone unnoticed that a considerable number of our fanbase seemed to take a certain pleasure in their failure where the irony is : we of all teams, find humor or ridicule in other club sides inability to move out of the Championship league.

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Re: Derby A Spent Force

Post by nicscreamer » Wed May 16, 2018 7:11 am

saint jude wrote:Maybe some degree of animosity regards clubs although hard to pinpoint exact point of origin. Norwich apart I invariably feel a level of sympathy for any team that fails in a Championship play-off opportunity - after all it's a long hard season for all involved and whether they've spent a fortune or shirt buttons in order to challenge it's all turned to sh*t for them and face another nine months from August mounting another challenge.

Furthermore, hasn't gone unnoticed that a considerable number of our fanbase seemed to take a certain pleasure in their failure where the irony is : we of all teams, find humor or ridicule in other club sides inability to move out of the Championship league.
It's called "taking the p*ss", SJ. And it's a typically English thing to do. Don't read too much into it

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Re: Derby A Spent Force

Post by number 9 » Wed May 16, 2018 1:21 pm

He's so unbelievably bonkers that he'll make it work. It was obvious with such crazy ambition they would fall short in some areas, but they're still producing, makes a nice change to see ambition and positivity in the news rather than Trumps mug.
I agree with you there, mate!

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Re: Derby A Spent Force

Post by Charnwood » Wed May 16, 2018 11:22 pm

herforder wrote:Ah, my ‘spent force’ comment was a play on words, in connection with the amount of money they’ve expended without, as yet, achieving the success they so desperately desire; and perhaps believe is their right. I got that impression from a couple of their grand fromages during our win over them last term. To say they were totally gobsmacked on the night would be an understatement!

Of course spending sensible amounts of money is what we all want to see - there’s no doubt that the better the quality and strength in depth, the better your chances etc. But, as Hudersfield and Burnley show, it’s not just about the money. Having limited resources but maximum ambition aren’t totally incompatible.

But agree about the young Fulham lad - if you’re good enough, you’re old enough. Very different from MM’s view. Of course Derby will always be a major force within the Cship - and by the laws of statistics alone, will eventually reach the promised land. (Accepting, of course, that we’ll take 3 away points from them next season!)

When you look at the stats our performances against Derby at Pride Park are pretty amazing.
Since 2006 we’ve played them 10 times, Won 7: Drawn 3; Lost 0 . Scored 15 Against 7 ; Pts 24
Ps: 4 of the 7 conceded were in the 4-4 draw in 2013 !
No surprise we all enjoy a day out there.

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Re: Derby A Spent Force

Post by Dubai Blue » Thu May 17, 2018 5:47 am

For me animosity towards Derby isn't really towards Derby. I'm just pissed that they were able to acquire a player that we all came to love the previous year whilst we were never in the hunt. It severely rankles that despite FFP there still is not a level playing field, even for the clubs without parachute payments.

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