Derby County vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

[derick_ipsw]

f*ck me such doom and gloom, come on guys a sense of perspective here, talk of managers gone etc is plain ridiculous , nobody was saying that 3 days ago, typical knee jerk reactions. Granted it wasnt great tonite but until the first went in there was nothing in it at all, we won't get a clear picture until about 15 games minimum are played, we all knew there would be hurdles along the way and some we will stumble over, i do have concerns about the one up front though, that needs to change.

I think you’ve missed the gist of where it started Mike with a crack about ME bringing MM back and Marko having £20 on it to buy his pressies for Christmas ( Joking I’m sure ).

I know we were even until the goal went in but that was with two teams playing crap !

Not sure we can wait 15 games or more for a clearer picture, that takes us into November. I know I’ve said it before but I think we need to get a couple of more experienced or better quality loan players in to help bring these youngsters on. I think it’s just asking too much to expect them to do it on their own.

Roy Keane did not win a game until is 17th attempt in 2009/10 season. He was not sacked either.

[Charnwood]

f*ck me such doom and gloom, come on guys a sense of perspective here, talk of managers gone etc is plain ridiculous , nobody was saying that 3 days ago, typical knee jerk reactions. Granted it wasnt great tonite but until the first went in there was nothing in it at all, we won't get a clear picture until about 15 games minimum are played, we all knew there would be hurdles along the way and some we will stumble over, i do have concerns about the one up front though, that needs to change.

I think you’ve missed the gist of where it started Mike with a crack about ME bringing MM back and Marko having £20 on it to buy his pressies for Christmas ( Joking I’m sure ).

I know we were even until the goal went in but that was with two teams playing crap !

Not sure we can wait 15 games or more for a clearer picture, that takes us into November. I know I’ve said it before but I think we need to get a couple of more experienced or better quality loan players in to help bring these youngsters on. I think it’s just asking too much to expect them to do it on their own.

Roy Keane did not win a game until is 17th attempt in 2009/10 season. He was not sacked either.

Maybe not but he should have been !

[nicscreamer]

No need for a full report on this one as you all obviously saw it for yourselves but it's more the level of discontent that bothers me than the result itself. Everybody said we needed change, everybody said we wanted a new direction with better football and entertainment, some said they would even take better football and losing in preference to MM's style, obviously PH wasn't everyone's first choice but they were prepared to give the guy a chance, it seems to me what Four games with some of us is his chance ? Really ? That's just plain crazy.

I also see lots of comments all over the place having yet another go at Marcus Evans for a p*ss poor budget again !! People really have no clue if that's their opinion, for us to spend 1.6 Million on Jackson alone is far more than I envisaged. We have brought in NINE new signings, anybody can tell you this will not be a seamless transition after Four bloody games, I have said this for years now but this is typical Ipswich fans mentality these days, it's Black or White with feck all in between. The over reaction on social media etc is quite staggering after last nights game, I know a lot of it is keyboard warrior idiots but a lot isn't !! Some of the negativity from people that were drooling after Villa to this now shows a serious mental disorder.

For me the game itself was never a classic and in truth lacked any real quality throughout, the first half saw a game with a solitary chance and that was Ward's weak effort which Carson easily smothered. I felt if anything we started off slowly and sat off them, as I said last night (and PH agreed) we showed them too much respect, but gradually we got a foothold and for me edged the half despite all Derby's possession, they never hurt us at all, our defence was more solid than theirs was, I thought throughout the game Nsiala & Donacien were solid while Chambo & Knudsen rarely looked troubled.

After the break we didnt start well and again a couple of things just went against us, a lucky deflection for the first goal and as someone said the second was not a freekick in the first place, Lawrence just fell to the ground as he always bloody does, these little things have gone against us all season and we always seemed to be punished. Losing Skuse affected us despite what some may say, he was doing a solid job, I do worry about Harrison up top on his own, the poor lad needs support, he has the toughest job of all the new guys and it is so hard for him to adjust so quickly at this level, if Hurst needs to address anything it is this formation.

No win in Four isn't what we hoped for clearly but again break it down and it isnt the end of the world, easy to say but it is reality, the Blackburn game was the opener with a team literally thrown together, Three of them arrived 2 or 3 days before the game, we ground out a deserved point, Rotherham is the one that is clouding our start, we weren't great but this work in progress team bossed the game and clobbered them in the stats, just couldn't convert a chance and got caught with a sucker punch, that really should have been Three points. Villa at home was a great performance and for me a turning point cus it showed me this team can compete with the best, but for a Red card we would probably have won that game, as it is we nearly did anyway, everyone was happy and saw a plan being hatched. Then last night seems to have undone all the good work in one foul swoop !! A poor game between Two poor sides on the night, One who has spent peanuts(although not to us it isn't) and One who has spent mega mega Millions and who got the key breaks when it mattered, work it out for yourselves.

I still see positives, Nsiala, Chalobah, Edwards, Edun & Donacien are looking good signings, Nolan leaves me a bit unsure at present, he is showing it in spurts but as others have pointed out at times certain things are poor, it is hard to judge anything on Jackson until we see him more, not just 25 mins here and there, Harrison has found it tough, more down to the formation and tactics than his ability, he needs a goal. Jordan Roberts has not really had a chance to show anything so I don't see any failures just yet. Charny said it is a high risk strategy and he is right, we all knew that and we all accepted it, it is One that could ultimately fail but not after Four bloody games, let's give this time to evolve, it could well take a season to get it right, but at least we have a team back who want to entertain and try to play football, there is no way we will be fighting to stay in this division, I am sure of it but losing the fans makes it incredibly hard. I would suggest we need minimum of Four points from Sheff Wed & Norwich to get concern levels settled, after that September presents Four winnable games so lets just keep a sense of perspective for a while yet.

Hallelujah to that and Ahmen! Its four games, 2 loses, neither of them spankings. Its very very early days and we really need some perspective here. If, after 10 games, we are still scratching around for our first win, then maybe I too will be in panic street. But until then, lets give the guys some time and a chance to gel.

[Dubai Blue]

Some interesting points here and as usual I find myself agreeing with Mike almost 100%. Actually I wasn't one of those calling for MM's dismissal but was excited with the change anyway.

From what I'm reading after the 4 games so far (sadly couldn't get the stream to work despite fiddling about with various VPNs) I'm actually quite encouraged. We may have missed Edun last night who seems to have been a positive force whenever he has played so far and I'm sure would have been selected but for the suspension, defence is apparently gelling well also. I'm reading that we are not supporting the lone striker well as yet and finding chances hard to create. Honestly this is exactly what I would expect for the first few games. It takes time to develop understandings on the pitch and without those understandings players will tend not to take risks with the ball for fear of looking stupid and losing their place in a side where nobody can feel confident of selection as yet. This might also encourage midfielders to play deeper in support of defenders while leaving striker(s) a little isolated.

Also I wouldn't be too hard on Nolan, he is expected to pull the strings in midfield. We can't expect him to be doing this effectively until he 'just knows' where his colleagues will be positioning themselves and what sort of runs they are likely to be making. At present his is the hardest job on the field to look good at IMO. He needs time to learn how his team mates are going to be on the field.

Yes, pointless to judge anything seriously after so few games. But definitely interesting to discuss how things are evolving, what isn't quite right &c &c. On this forum at least I appreciate the input of everyone on this subject, it's almost always considered, if sometimes clearly wrong

I don't think any of us would vote to sack PH just yet

[The Odious Mr Rossi]

Well I've read all the comments on here, and its interesting to see some conflicting opinions.

Sure we all wanted change, and most were pleased at the appointment of PH, though as I told Mike he was never anywhere near to being my first choice.

Sure we all need to get behind the team and the manager - in my case that means having bought a season ticket this season when I have not bought one for the last 3 seasons. But we need to be given something back in return.

Mike alludes to the fact that we all wanted change, we all wanted to see forward-thinking attacking football. So we do, goals are a big part of the overall entertainment. But we are not seeing it. I know its only 4 games, but attack-wise there has been absolutely no improvement at all and it seems we're stuck with a manager who is as stubborn on his views as to tactics as MM was.

I was angry last night with the performance I had watched. I'm even more angry today. It's not what I expected or wanted and all I am doing is saying what I think of the situation.

For the record, I don't think PH is the right man for this club. Of course I will still support the team, but it angers me to see what I perceive as being the wrong tactics employed with no backup plan - sound familiar?

I appreciate that he has gone down the road of getting in young hungry players, but those players still need t0o be correctly motivated. Listening to PH's post match interviews, I doubt his monotonic voice would even motivate a man who has not had sex for 10 years to go to the bathroom for a quick flick.

Yes, it's early days - but already there are signs that all is not well in the goal scoring department of our game, and that needs to be addressed fast.

[derick_ipsw]

Where has the high intensity pressing game that PH alluded to how he wants Town to play? On the highlight's I have seen, it certainly was not happening last night!!

[ipswichtownNo1]

Where has the high intensity pressing game that PH alluded to how he wants Town to play? On the highlight's I have seen, it certainly was not happening last night!!

You wont see pressing football on highlights, doesnt make good tv watching olayers getting closed down. I think they did the job pretty well until the first goal which was a little fortunate. After playing with 10 men on saturday i cant fault the effort put in last night .

[Bluemike]

Where has the high intensity pressing game that PH alluded to how he wants Town to play? On the highlight's I have seen, it certainly was not happening last night!!

You wont see pressing football on highlights, doesnt make good tv watching olayers getting closed down. I think they did the job pretty well until the first goal which was a little fortunate. After playing with 10 men on saturday i cant fault the effort put in last night .

That's a good point, a long haul down to Exeter, followed by Villa with 10 men and then Derby 3 days later must have took its toll. All a good learning curve.

[derick_ipsw]

Where has the high intensity pressing game that PH alluded to how he wants Town to play? On the highlight's I have seen, it certainly was not happening last night!!

You wont see pressing football on highlights, doesnt make good tv watching olayers getting closed down. I think they did the job pretty well until the first goal which was a little fortunate. After playing with 10 men on saturday i cant fault the effort put in last night .

That's a good point, a long haul down to Exeter, followed by Villa with 10 men and then Derby 3 days later must have took its toll. All a good learning curve.

They flew to Exeter and back so hardly tiring.

[charlton837]

I'd argue flying is more tiring in some ways. Can sleep on coach even if it takes longer. Not much time for sleep on the flight. They still wouldn't have got home until very late. Not that I'm making excuses... But could be a factor

[Bluemike]

Tiring on the arms though Derick, would explain why Bart has been crap.

[Marvinbay1973]

We were a bit unlucky with the first goal and that changed the match.
Up to then Bart had nothing much to do.
Non of the forward thinking players impressed tonight Harrison is too isolated up front and not good enough to play in that role on his own.

It was the first time for the Red button and WTF was that all about a test card at halftime, no replays and a commentator who kept mixing the players up.

Whilst I was happy to have the opportunity to watch the game the coverage was certainly poor with only one camera angle, no HD, and as you say no replays, and even better no pundits!

In fact it was that poor it took me back to the early 60’s when Anglia Television launched Match of the Week shown on a Sunday afternoon showing match highlights from a game played the previous day involving one of the local teams.

Good old Gerry Harrison

[RRanger]

Good to see there are still some "non-panickers" on here . It was a dull and uninspiring game last night between two sides who both played pretty scrappy football.I thought the first half was pretty even with us finishing strongly and it was only the first (deflected ) goal that brought Derby to a semblance of life. I agree with the posters on here that don't think the two up front is quite working, but PH has said this is the way he wants to play so how can we make the best of it? We could compromise a little and play Jackson off Harrison (Jackson last night for instance instead of Ward) Harrison does seem to win 75% of the balls in the air that are pumped up to him, usually with a back glance that would be perfect for someone with real pace(Jackson) to run onto. I don't rate Ward anyway.He drives me mad the way he seems to have the pace but always stops, cuts inside and then ends up passing sideways or back. Playing Jackson in his position would satisfy PH's one up front philosophy but could also be almost 2 upfront as well.

One other thing about last night: most of the side had played as 10 men only 4 days earlier and did seem,particularly in the 2nd half, to be a bit knackered.
Regarding loans, I do expect that we will get a couple more players in before the window shuts, but more important for me is that we get Dozzell fit and back in the action. Harrison's most effective game has definitely been the friendly against West Ham. We haven't seen a better pas by an Ipswich player than his through ball to Harrison (on the ground) that led to his goal. I was expecting that Nolan would be doing that but haven't seen it yet.

[ipswichtownNo1]

Tiring on the arms though Derick, would explain why Bart has been crap.

Lifting too many duty free pasties!

[MasseyFerguson]

I don't think anyone is panicking and I think pretty much everyone is prepared to give PH and the players a fair crack of the whip.

I do, however, think it is reasonable for people to be somewhat concerned by what we have seen to date. I appreciate we have nine new players, a new manager, a new system and it will take time for the new system to bed in. That's all fine. The problem, for me, is that the players we have might not have the ability to play the system PH wants.

Regardless of the fast turnaround in games for the Derby match we were really poor. Derby looked edgy and anxious and the match was awful, but we didn't look threatening at all. I hope I'm wrong about the quality of our panel but I am genuinely concerned.

[Bluemike]

But what have we seen to date ? A fair draw against Blackburn, a defeat at Rotherham when we all know we bossed that game and should have taken the points and a damn good effort against Villa against all the odds, then of course last night, I can see it is disappointing but I don't see it as the team not working, things have been a little bit against us for sure. I do however agree completely that we need to sort out the attacking side of our team, sooner rather than later.

[Charnwood]

Mike as always your report / update is appreciated as it’s always provides a balance albeit sometimes weighted against any criticism of our boys in blue and I admire you for it.

However, albeit too soon for some, I see with my own eyes evidence that we have too many very young inexperienced players with loads of energy, putting in huge shifts in terms of workload, but simply not having enough class to compete for the full 90 mins against more experienced players and this concerns me.

I have no issue with Paul Hurst although as you know he wouldn’t have been my first choice but that’s a separate issue, and I hope he gets all the support he needs from both the owner and the fans. I have no issue with his management of the team or his style of play with the exception of the lone striker, however I do have an issue with the clubs transfer strategy which leaves us very short on class and experience.

I don’t accept that Marcus Evans has been generous with Hurst, he’s brought in £11m from the sale of Waghorn, Webster and Garner, offloaded their wages and the wages of a further 6 players including McGoldrick who was probably one of our highest earners, and reinvested just £3.4m on three League One players and made a profit of £7.6m reducing his wage bill along the way. Whilst this might not be a “p*ss poor” budget it’s hardly generous when he’s put 70 % of the transfer revenue back in the coffers, and had this money been reinvested this money back in the team PH may well have been able to acquire a couple of better players.

I know we all see different things when we watch a game but two things I noticed in particular last night is that our players were often far too close together for much of the game and bunched up around the ball rather than spread out to create space and give the player in possession options which often resulted in the ball being lost. I also spent time counting our run of successful passes and rarely got past four which is why we had so little possesssion. Unfortunately these players are some way off Championship standard and that’s a problem if they don’t or can’t step up to the mark quickly which may be asking too much.

I don’t consider myself to be over reacting, or crazy, neither am I a clueless keyboard warrior idiot who can’t see that the players are working hard. I think they worked exceptionally hard last night, i’m just not as convinced as some that they’re all going to be good enough to compete at this level.

I’m not panicking yet, I simply don’t want to see the team slip back to the bottom of the table where they were when Mick McCarthy arrived on 1 November 2012 having been winless for the 12 opening games of the season under Paul Jewell, that definitely wouldn’t be progress.

I guess it doesn’t help either to look back to this time last year when we started the new season with four straight wins and sat at the top of the table with 12 points with our new signings Garner and Waghorn scoring for fun. To me it definitely feels like our football club has moved backwards, but for now I’ll move on and look forward to Saturdays game at Sheffield Wednesday who picked up a 2-1 win against Millwall last night which will undoubtedly settle their nerves after a start to their season very similar to ours.

[derick_ipsw]

Tiring on the arms though Derick, would explain why Bart has been crap.

Your right Mike, ever since he got his pay rise he has cost us at least 4 goals.

[Bluemike]

Charny, good post there, first off I think you know that I am certainly not suggesting you are crazy or a keyboard warrior idiot, I think there are hardly any of them on T.Boys thankfully but there are numerous other areas to read posts etc and there are scores of them out there wanting nothing more than for this to fail.

Yes I always try to put in what I consider a balanced view of games, what I won't ever do it criticise the team for the slightest little thing all the time, I leave that for others, I think my views on the Exeter game demonstrate that if it's poor I say it's poor. If you look back there is a pattern that when things go badly the posts count on a thread is quite a bit higher than when we win, that is no coincidence, we all know the posters that pop up online at the slightest hint of a defeat and yet aren't seen when we do ok or win, for me its comment come what may and whatever the outcome.

The transfer budget will always be a big topic of debate with differing views, from my point of view I don't lose sight unlike many others of the fact we were a team in Administration and who owe what 90+ Million ? You cannot go into Administration twice, that would be us clobbered really hard and as such any business has to work dilligently and within certain restraints. I fully get the figures of outgoings against incomings but as I always say so what ? Gwion Edwards a classic case in point, 700K ??? WTF a steal, the club should be applauded for that deal, I guess if we had paid 3 or 4 Million for him everyone would be much happier ? I don't get it. We paid 1.6 Million rising to 2 Million for Kayden Jackson, for us that is huge and a big step forward from the past where we have sold Murphy, Mings and others and reinvested nothing. Again for me Evans and co should be applauded for getting 3.5 potentially 8 for a sicknote in Adam Webster and not far off the same for Martyn Waghorn who cost us 250K !!! That is great business, i think we all get blinkered at how much we have to spend to get a good player, we dont. From what I have seen already Nsiala offers far more than Webster did while here, always injured and completely lost his way, I think he will turn out to be a bottler. There is also the hidden costs that many fail to remember, just one being the big increase in Bart's weekly wage to keep him here, that has to be found and is probably quite a bit more. For me if we spent nothing but got players like Edwards in I would be more than happy.

I must admit I totally disagree that the Football club has gone backwards, for me it has been a massive step forward in what we have decided to do, a gamble I grant you and one that is not certain to succeed, however this club was dying from the inside out, the atmosphere and feel at games, especially at home was dreadful, I stand with people at 46 games and I get to hear a lot, it was pretty conclusive that a change in direction was needed and most would accept the gamble that we have now taken, they can't just abandon it after four games, we have to be in it for the long haul, if the first seasons objective ends up being Fourth bottom then so be it, personally I don't believe it will be anything like that bad.

I am not sure if Derby was your first chance to see the team this season but if so you've seen what is the worst in terms of stats etc, for instance our possession figures stack up, Blackburn (57%) Rotherham (63%) Exeter (58%) Villa (39% **10 Men**) and Derby (38%), against Reading & Millwall Derby had 63% and 72% respectively so we are no different to anyone else, it is what they do and how their game is based. I think another set of stats that shows this club is moving forward and not backward is the shots at goal figures, Blackburn (9) Rotherham (16) Exeter (12) Villa (9) & Derby (11), none of these stats would suggest we can't or are not passing the ball around, to have high possession you have to have the ball and pass it around, to create chances and shots you have to have the ball, again you got a little unlucky seeing the Derby game, where we do have to improve is getting more on target and hitting the net with a few but that is part of the work in progress and will hopefully come soon. I remember numerous games over the last season or Two where we regularly went 90 minutes with what One or two shots and nothing on target, we have improved massively from that and quickly.

I do get we all see things differently and ultimately most of us want Town to succeed but I will always be a person/fan that tries to see positives no matter what, I like to enjoy match days and look forward with belief that we can win every game, of course that can't happen, this is not a criticism of anybody at all but I think some do prefer the negative take on things as it's become a bit of a way of life with our beloved club and I get it to a point. Ultimately Four games is nothing and as I said on my previous post it is Rotherham and Rotherham alone that is clouding the situation, that should have been a win and Three points, mid table with Five points and a win under our belts and everyone is looking forward positively, of course it didn't happen and we have only ourselves to blame but it was a team of strangers all new to this division, it will come, hopefully soon.

[charlton837]

great post Mike, absolutely spot on for me. I think the negative thoughts thing may have carried over from the last couple of seasons, its a way of mind that's ingrained. I do get it.

Im optimistic in long run we will be happy with the change, but I think we all realize we need to get a win soon, im sure we will.

In the presence of time perhaps it will prove PH was the wrong choice (I really hope not as I like him) but for me whatever happens it was never a mistake to make the change from MM. We had to do it, the cub was rotting for a number of reasons, on the pitch not so much but everything around it.

Lets hope for 3 points on sat, its a winnable game

[Dubai Blue]

Mike basically a fine post. however couple of small things to say:
i. Let's stop taking about the club owing 60m ok? ME bought around 60m debt from Norwich Union if my memory serves, for a fraction of that. So it serves his interest to have that debt showing in his consolidated accounts and I believe there is an interest charge based on it raised every year. However it is never going to be paid unless we get promoted and in case ME decides to sell from the Championship then the written down value (i.e.: what he bought the debt for) is a more accurate reflection of our debt.
ii. Attempts on goal statistic is an improvement but often there have been only one or two on target and unless this on target %age improves things have not really changed IMO. I look at these stats too but often an attempt at goal is a fluffed shot that goes wide of the target. Teams only score goals with shots on target (unless they are Derby ).
Having said that I'm sure the coaching team is on it and maybe this is the difference between a Waghorn and a Harrison. At the start of last season we were scoring 3 goals with 3 shots on target and 4 attempts.

[Bluemike]

The thing is Dubai Football is now a business, let's not forget that as a business this club has racked up obscene amounts of debt, most of it before ME arrived too, along the way we ripped off local businesses who lost what was owed to them, it doesn't look good to go about spending "their" money willy nilly just because all our debt is owed to Marcus Evans, we are in debt to the massive tune of 90+ million no matter how people want to dress it up.

As I said in my post we need to get more of the attempts on target, that much we all agree on but not all the attempts are poor ones, not by any means, for instance the one Gwion Edwards smashed off the bar against Villa is classed as off target, can't get much closer than that. Against Blackburn we had 3 on target to their 2, Rotherham was Three apiece, Villa we only had the One on target for obvious reasons and at derby it was two apiece so at no point have we been lagging behind.

[Ando]

For me the club has not gone backwards and is going in a different direction in terms of player recruitment and style of play. I applaud what Hurst is trying to do on the field. The majority wanted chance and that's what we have. Hurst has said we are 2-3 players short at present.

What does concern me is where the goals will come from. It will be interesting to see what striker we manage to get on loan. I am scratching my head as to why we sold Garner unless of course he wanted to go.

The other thing that concerns me is what will happen to the profit made from our sales. As Charnwood has pointed out there is plenty left. I would also imagine those we have recruited are on less money than Those they replaced.

I hope huws returns to the team when fit as he will score from midfield. Listening to Hurts press conference today he clearly does not see Sears as a striker. I still think he can do a job up front as a second striker if given the chance.

We all need to hold our nerve and have faith and belief in Hurst and the team at least it's not boring!