Nottingham Forest v Ipswich Town preview and matchday thread

[hallamblue]

Players capable of passing the ball?

Mcgoldrick
Bru
Skuse
Bishop
Sears
Fraser
Douglas
Tabb
Parr
Oar



Whether they are encouraged to do so is perhaps a totally different proposition altogether.

The low numbers of defensive players in that list is most telling IMHO

[Bluemike]

Tangfastic, that is a brilliant point and something I have often scratched my head over, why oh bloody why does it happen every sodding time we are ahead going into the final few minutes ? I reall cannot accept that MM instructs the boys to do this, his yelling on the touchline would indicate quite the opposite at times, but as you say it is something that really does need addressing.

I agree that it surely isn't that MM actually instructs players to sit back during the last few minutes to protect a lead or draw, but I think there may be a problem or 2.

1) Why does MM always substitute a forward with a defender or defensive midfielder in such situations, what sort of message does this action send out to the players?
2) We are nowhere near being the best passers of a ball in the division - actually our passing game is one of the worst and stats seem to back this up. Therefore we do not have much chance of defending a lead properly by tightening up the defence. I would venture to suggest that in our case the best way of protecting a non-losing situation would be to substitute like for like only, and to continue to press the game and try to score right up to the end.

I agree completely. It is our inability to pass and therefore keep possession that causes problems when we try to defend. It is still beyond my grasp how we can have an entire team incapable of passing.

Except the much maligned Jonathon Douglas which people refuse to acknowledge, I suspect it is because of his links with Brentford who played lovely passing football last season.

[Andym]

I agree completely. It is our inability to pass and therefore keep possession that causes problems when we try to defend. It is still beyond my grasp how we can have an entire team incapable of passing.

Except the much maligned Jonathon Douglas which people refuse to acknowledge, I suspect it is because of his links with Brentford who played lovely passing football last season.

I wouldn't disagree. He (Douglas) has become the latest scapegoat.

[marko69]

Sometimes I find it difficult to understand the "scapegoat" term. It is always used by the minority, in all cases. Which would point to the majority being mostly wrong. It could potentially cause many disagreements, especially amongst the more passionate.

"Why oh why does Mick persist with Douglas, FFS!"
"Why you singling him out?"
"That's about 10 passages of play that have broken down due to him. He's Shyte!"
"The whole team is Shyte, mate. You are just using him as a scapegoat!"
"No mate. The entire team ISN'T Shyte. Douglas IS!"

And so the discussion continues.

[Andym]

Sometimes I find it difficult to understand the "scapegoat" term. It is always used by the minority, in all cases. Which would point to the majority being mostly wrong. It could potentially cause many disagreements, especially amongst the more passionate.

"Why oh why does Mick persist with Douglas, FFS!"
"Why you singling him out?"
"That's about 10 passages of play that have broken down due to him. He's Shyte!"
"The whole team is Shyte, mate. You are just using him as a scapegoat!"
"No mate. The entire team ISN'T Shyte. Douglas IS!"

And so the discussion continues.

I know what you mean. The problem is, I think most people don't think Douglas is sh*te. They think the combination of Skuse and Douglas is a poor one as they are too similar.

Personally I disagree. It's not a poor combination, the fault lies in how they are told to play. Skuse and Douglas sit deep yet we know in a previous life Douglas got forward and scored goals. But if you are going to play 4 in midfield with 2 wide men who get forward, the central players have to play deeper to provide defensive cover. Ideally they would play in a 4-3-3 with Bru getting forward. But then you need fullbacks to provide the width as Cresswell and then Mings did. But our current fullbacks can barely defend let alone get forward. So because of other inadequacies, Douglas has to play deep. And takes stick for it.

[marko69]

That was explained perfectly, Andy. Cheers.

[Tangfastic]

I agree completely. It is our inability to pass and therefore keep possession that causes problems when we try to defend. It is still beyond my grasp how we can have an entire team incapable of passing.

Except the much maligned Jonathon Douglas which people refuse to acknowledge, I suspect it is because of his links with Brentford who played lovely passing football last season.

I wouldn't disagree. He (Douglas) has become the latest scapegoat.

We're kind of building up heroes and villains here. Douglas could well be a scapegoat - and unnecessarily so - but that does not mean he's a maligned hero and undroppable. He's playing in a role that he's unused to and he's 33. Bru has become. without even playing - at the expense of Douglas some kind of hero with the fans. Good to see him get his chance last week and I hope he takes it - but I think he's one of those players that after one poor game - Mick will drop.

I think that's the problem here - McGoldrick is one of those players in and out of the team and droppable - so he becomes a beleaguered hero and saviour to some fans and that's why he gets support.
Players like Douglas get far more chances than someone like McGoldrick... hence the abuse. Some of us like the edgy types with a bit of swagger who smoke behind the bike sheds rather than the teacher's pets.
That's all down to Mick - his selection and tactics. Easy to say - but if there is a level playing field with selection based on form then there would be less moaning.

[Bluemike]

Sometimes I find it difficult to understand the "scapegoat" term. It is always used by the minority, in all cases. Which would point to the majority being mostly wrong. It could potentially cause many disagreements, especially amongst the more passionate.

"Why oh why does Mick persist with Douglas, FFS!"
"Why you singling him out?"
"That's about 10 passages of play that have broken down due to him. He's Shyte!"
"The whole team is Shyte, mate. You are just using him as a scapegoat!"
"No mate. The entire team ISN'T Shyte. Douglas IS!"

And so the discussion continues.

I know what you mean. The problem is, I think most people don't think Douglas is sh*te. They think the combination of Skuse and Douglas is a poor one as they are too similar.

Personally I disagree. It's not a poor combination, the fault lies in how they are told to play. Skuse and Douglas sit deep yet we know in a previous life Douglas got forward and scored goals. But if you are going to play 4 in midfield with 2 wide men who get forward, the central players have to play deeper to provide defensive cover. Ideally they would play in a 4-3-3 with Bru getting forward. But then you need fullbacks to provide the width as Cresswell and then Mings did. But our current fullbacks can barely defend let alone get forward. So because of other inadequacies, Douglas has to play deep. And takes stick for it.

Agree with that post completely.

[bluepeter]

Douglas is a quality player.
I'm sure the players read the forums and opinions must weigh on their minds.
In Mick and Terry I trust 100% and normal service will return.
Lets hope Murphy puts his scoring boots on soon.

COYB