Devil's Advocate

[Number 9]

After today's result against Millwall, ITFC is now officially on a losing streak. Of course that's not news to anyone who has followed Ipswich Town FC as long as I have. I'm now beginning to accept there's not a whole lot any manager can do without financial backing to build a promotion worthy squad. Yes MM has done wonders with little to no cash, but realistically how long does anyone think he'll stay at Ipswich under the same conditions? I'm also very concerned the FFP that ME is committed to will eventually do more harm than good...at least from an Ipswich fan's perspective. For instance, is it not logical to suggest ITFC will simply stagnate under the FFP until relegated into obscurity? Over-reaction? Perhaps. I do fear though that one day in our future ITFC under MM will become yet another chapter in the scrolls of 'Those Were The Days'.

[K L Blue]

After today's result against Millwall, ITFC is now officially on a losing streak. Of course that's not news to anyone who has followed Ipswich Town FC as long as I have. I'm now beginning to accept there's not a whole lot any manager can do without financial backing to build a promotion worthy squad. Yes MM has done wonders with little to no cash, but realistically how long does anyone think he'll stay at Ipswich under the same conditions? I'm also very concerned the FFP that ME is committed to will eventually do more harm than good...at least from an Ipswich fan's perspective. For instance, is it not logical to suggest ITFC will simply stagnate under the FFP until relegated into obscurity? Over-reaction? Perhaps. I do fear though that one day in our future ITFC under MM will become yet another chapter in the scrolls of 'Those Were The Days'.

Every club will have to adhere to FFP next season, its in the rules, by adhereing to them now, we will be in a strong position than most of the clubs that are having one last quick throw of the dice in the hope of getting promoted.
and we won't "stagnate" as you put it, its every league thats gonna have to abide by it!

[Number 9]

While all of the teams will have to adhere to FFP, not every team has the same financial conditions. We're averaging around 17,000 fans a game and the club has over 70-mil in debt. Also, the teams coming down will still have benefitted from parachute payments and TV money. I agree that next year there will be a lot more teams shackled by FFP. What I'm talking about is financing a 'promotion worthy' ITFC. IMHO, we just won't have enough money coming in to balance the books.

[Bluemike]

And unfortunately we dont have anywhere near enough money coming in now to splash the cash willy nilly.

If you go down to tescos and have £50 quid in your wallet would you try to spend £150 ??

[TractorBoys91]

F*CK me. Another ludicrous thread.

We're 5 points adrift of the playoffs in Mid-January, we're overachieving so far this season.

Yes, we are on a losing streak. And yes, it needs to change. But providing it does relatively soon, we'll still be exceeding expectations in terms of points and league positions this season.

[Number 9]

Well that depends what your expectations are, mate. It's nice to see a new face posting. I hear what you're saying, but christ, how long do we have to be patient?

[larrylamb]

I have a strong suspicion that the penalties that the clubs that exceed the expenditure will get away lightly in reguards to fines and such like or the FA could end up just openinng a real hornets nest , and lets be honest the weak Lilly livered ars***les will just dodge the issue despite other clubs abiding by the rules and suffering position ( incl the money that that brings) wise as a result

[derick_ipsw]

I have a strong suspicion that the penalties that the clubs that exceed the expenditure will get away lightly in reguards to fines and such like or the FA could end up just openinng a real hornets nest , and lets be honest the weak Lilly livered ars***les will just dodge the issue despite other clubs abiding by the rules and suffering position ( incl the money that that brings) wise as a result

I don't think fines is the answer as the clubs are struggling financially anyway. The only way to bring it into play would be POINTS DEDUCTION. This then makes it a punishment that fits the crime.

[Bluemike]

Christ if they do points deductions we will be champions followed by Barnsley.

[derick_ipsw]

Christ if they do points deductions we will be champions followed by Barnsley.

Well it is the only way we would be!!

[larrylamb]

I have a strong suspicion that the penalties that the clubs that exceed the expenditure will get away lightly in reguards to fines and such like or the FA could end up just openinng a real hornets nest , and lets be honest the weak Lilly livered ars***les will just dodge the issue despite other clubs abiding by the rules and suffering position ( incl the money that that brings) wise as a result

I don't think fines is the answer as the clubs are struggling financially anyway. The only way to bring it into play would be POINTS DEDUCTION. This then makes it a punishment that fits the crime.

Thats the gist of my post really , if not big fines then a hefty point would seem in order , but will the weak FA sanction those as the repercussions of teams that may have gone up could be massive..i truly believe that the FA will bottle it and dish out points deduction to clubs but allow them to go up anyway.(points will be the following season..so they still get that seasons money and parachute payments)..but lets face it they may have cheated / bent the rules to go up ..or just minor fines and given the financial bonus of going up it may be worth taking the hit..To sum it up the FA will bottle it..!!

[Ricco]

F*CK me. Another ludicrous thread.

We're 5 points adrift of the playoffs in Mid-January, we're overachieving so far this season.

Yes, we are on a losing streak. And yes, it needs to change. But providing it does relatively soon, we'll still be exceeding expectations in terms of points and league positions this season.

I think he's looking at the long term bigger picture really, rather than complaining about our current position and performance.

And I do wonder about the same things. I'm not saying this will happen but I don't think this is ludicrous to consider.

For instance, is it not logical to suggest ITFC will simply stagnate under the FFP until relegated into obscurity? Over-reaction? Perhaps.

The club's clearly been struggling financially for a while, that's not a good thing when the future seems to be financial fair play. It will be interesting to see how it affects the league and how strong the correlation will be, but the rules help the bigger clubs with sound financial bases and large crowds etc.

[K L Blue]

I have a strong suspicion that the penalties that the clubs that exceed the expenditure will get away lightly in reguards to fines and such like or the FA could end up just openinng a real hornets nest , and lets be honest the weak Lilly livered ars***les will just dodge the issue despite other clubs abiding by the rules and suffering position ( incl the money that that brings) wise as a result

I don't think fines is the answer as the clubs are struggling financially anyway. The only way to bring it into play would be POINTS DEDUCTION. This then makes it a punishment that fits the crime.

Thats the gist of my post really , if not big fines then a hefty point would seem in order , but will the weak FA sanction those as the repercussions of teams that may have gone up could be massive..i truly believe that the FA will bottle it and dish out points deduction to clubs but allow them to go up anyway.(points will be the following season..so they still get that seasons money and parachute payments)..but lets face it they may have cheated / bent the rules to go up ..or just minor fines and given the financial bonus of going up it may be worth taking the hit..To sum it up the FA will bottle it..!!

And i agree larry, the first club(no matter which league)that breaks the FFP will set a precedence to what punishment will be given.
But as per usual with the FA they'll bottle it and then everyone will "bend" the rules to gain an advantage.

[Herbivore]

I don't think FFP is implemented by the FA is it? It'll be the Football League and the Premier League I would have thought.

[Number 9]

I don't think FFP is implemented by the FA is it? It'll be the Football League and the Premier League I would have thought.

UEFA?

[vaalae]

I have a strong suspicion that the penalties that the clubs that exceed the expenditure will get away lightly in reguards to fines and such like or the FA could end up just openinng a real hornets nest , and lets be honest the weak Lilly livered ars***les will just dodge the issue despite other clubs abiding by the rules and suffering position ( incl the money that that brings) wise as a result

I don't think fines is the answer as the clubs are struggling financially anyway. The only way to bring it into play would be POINTS DEDUCTION. This then makes it a punishment that fits the crime.

Thats the gist of my post really , if not big fines then a hefty point would seem in order , but will the weak FA sanction those as the repercussions of teams that may have gone up could be massive..i truly believe that the FA will bottle it and dish out points deduction to clubs but allow them to go up anyway.(points will be the following season..so they still get that seasons money and parachute payments)..but lets face it they may have cheated / bent the rules to go up ..or just minor fines and given the financial bonus of going up it may be worth taking the hit..To sum it up the FA will bottle it..!!

Agree 100%, we're expecting strict adherence to rules and regs and tough penalties to enforce these.

Cough cough...

We'll file this new directive along with the "Stamp out Racism" movement and the Surrey Panther.

[Pepperi]

Oh -and the 'Respect' campaign that has been so well implmented....

[Charnwood]

Financial Fair Play Explained; http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/fina ... lained.php

As you will see the first punishments aren't due till December 2014 so we still have another 12 months before we find out if the scheme has any teeth.

Meanwhile 3 teams from The Championship will have been promoted and if they're found to have breached the FFP Rules they will have to pay a "Fair Play Tax" which will be donated to charity.

Given the financial rewards for promotion I can't really see many ambitious owners giving a toss about it. I maybe wrong but let's wait and see.

[vaalae]

Financial Fair Play Explained; http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/fina ... lained.php

As you will see the first punishments aren't due till December 2014 so we still have another 12 months before we find out if the scheme has any teeth.

Meanwhile 3 teams from The Championship will have been promoted and if they're found to have breached the FFP Rules they will have to pay a "Fair Play Tax" which will be donated to charity.

Given the financial rewards for promotion I can't really see many ambitious owners giving a toss about it. I maybe wrong but let's wait and see.

Fair Play Tax...what crap...as you say Andy unless the Tax is 50 million pounds it's good business to pay it, and stay in the Premier League.

As with all these things the only punishments for financial irregularities, fan violence, racism and homophobia that clubs will listen to are points deductions.

Nothing else is respected, by clubs or fans. Start dishing out points deductions and fans will police their own on the racism side of things.

[hallamblue]

So which bunch of gutless fuckwits come up with this toothless bloody FFP scheme yhen. And if it is so toothless wtf are Town doing adhering to it when all our bloody rivals are going for it and laughing up their sleeve at us whilst they do it?


...frankly I bloody despair at our predicament right now.

[Shed on tour]

So which bunch of gutless fuckwits come up with this toothless bloody FFP scheme yhen. And if it is so toothless wtf are Town doing adhering to it when all our bloody rivals are going for it and laughing up their sleeve at us whilst they do it?


...frankly I bloody despair at our predicament right now.

hallam

I guess if you were an owner of a club and you decided that you had put enough money into it over a certain amount of years without any success and you decided enough was enough then using FFP as the reason why funds are not available for strengthening the playing staff would be a way of trying to keep the supporters on board.

Not that I would suggest that any owner would actually do this of course.

[Herbivore]

Personally I'd feel more comfortable supporting a club that isn't running at the kind of loss that would certainly lead to administration without significant backing from a rich owner.

[Charnwood]

Personally I'd feel more comfortable supporting a club that isn't running at the kind of loss that would certainly lead to administration without significant backing from a rich owner.

So which Club do you intend transfeering your allegiance to ?

[Herbivore]

Personally I'd feel more comfortable supporting a club that isn't running at the kind of loss that would certainly lead to administration without significant backing from a rich owner.

So which Club do you intend transfeering your allegiance to ?

We at least seem to be trying to give it a go.

[hallamblue]

So which bunch of gutless fuckwits come up with this toothless bloody FFP scheme yhen. And if it is so toothless wtf are Town doing adhering to it when all our bloody rivals are going for it and laughing up their sleeve at us whilst they do it?


...frankly I bloody despair at our predicament right now.

hallam

I guess if you were an owner of a club and you decided that you had put enough money into it over a certain amount of years without any success and you decided enough was enough then using FFP as the reason why funds are not available for strengthening the playing staff would be a way of trying to keep the supporters on board.

Not that I would suggest that any owner would actually do this of course.

i think theres more truth in this than we care to admit Shed !

[herforder]

So which bunch of gutless fuckwits come up with this toothless bloody FFP scheme yhen. And if it is so toothless wtf are Town doing adhering to it when all our bloody rivals are going for it and laughing up their sleeve at us whilst they do it?


...frankly I bloody despair at our predicament right now.

hallam

I guess if you were an owner of a club and you decided that you had put enough money into it over a certain amount of years without any success and you decided enough was enough then using FFP as the reason why funds are not available for strengthening the playing staff would be a way of trying to keep the supporters on board.

Not that I would suggest that any owner would actually do this of course.

i think theres more truth in this than we care to admit Shed !

Something I pondered yesterday in another post relating to transfers - although sort of dismissed it as a subterfuge too far! In the hard-nosed business environment in which ME operates, I guess any scenario is possible. Because there's much of the wider picture we can't see, including how much of a burden continuing to fund ITFC represents against his total income/profits etc, we can only speculate about possible future actions - invariably heightened during times of poor team performance, when the rumour-mill revs up.

However, ME's continued support remains critical: if that's limited to ensuring the club remains in business, until such time additional funds to strengthen the team become available; or until a decision is made to try to sell, then we have little option than to live with it. What might be helpful at the mid-way point of the season is an honest and grown-up dialogue with supporters, to lay out the facts. Not spin, or warm words. Whilst from a business perspective ME might think this risky, particularly if selling is on his mind, it's something the loyalty of those he relies upon deserve. Perhaps an input into Saturday's programme?

Titus Bramble anyone?

[Bluemike]

Personally I'd feel more comfortable supporting a club that isn't running at the kind of loss that would certainly lead to administration without significant backing from a rich owner.

I actually agree with this, If, gof forbid we go into Admin again that would more than likely see us relegated and then that would be the beginning of the end. As frustrating as it is I would rather take a top 10 season and keep the finances at least at the levels they are now than I would go for broke by spending on players that may not even achieve our goals and ending up further in the sh*te. We can all say this and that about Evans but he is far bloody wiser than any of us will ever be.

[Number 9]

Ipswich is the longest serving club in the championship. If ME doesn't have the money to back the club, ITFC is already doomed. Yes, yes it could be a lot worse, but many fans are tired and fed up with mediocrity as evident in the diminishing gates. I can wait another year, but my expectations for next season is top six as a minimum. I just don't know how that can be accomplished if ME is adhering to the farcical FFP.

[Charnwood]

Or it may simply be a case of having already spent his budget.