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I was quite harsh in my criticism of MM. Was it justified? Yes, I think so. Am I deluded? No, I think not. Just my opinions, of course - maybe not right, maybe not wrong, just my opinions.

Let me say that I think MM is still excellent at putting together a decent squad with limited resources.
And I know he has a decent record in the past with other clubs. But I think his philosophy is tired and outdated.

Many will see my reaction on Saturday as knee-jerk. It's far from that, it's actually a continuation from the last 2 seasons.

I firmly believe we would have gained automatic promotion last season, had it not been for the fact that we sat back on so many leads and were caught out. I'm not saying that a draw at Brentford is a bad result, because it isn't, but it should have been a win. Once again we stopped going forward, sat back, and allowed the opponents to take the game to us. Same as last season. That's what made me so angry. And a few different players this season, so you can't really blame the players for that. The negative and ridiculous substitutions seem to have carried on from last season. I think it all points to MM deciding to shut up shop and sending negative players on with negative instructions. Once players take their foot off the gas late in a game, it's difficult to keep concentration, and that is what has happened far too many times to be a mere coincidence. Just my opinion, but that's how it looks to me.

One final thought - you never ever saw the 2 automatically promoted teams shut up shop last season - if they went 2-0 up they didn't slacken off, and usually they went on to score more.

Many points , well made rossi, and cant disagree with a fair few if them tbh.

MM is no mug whether we like his style if not. But I'll be surprised if he continues to tolerate these lapses - he is looking for defenders, he's said that. We just have to wait and see who he brings in. But I cant see Smith lasting much longer as a CB pairing ...we shall see.

TBH I think Tommy should be looking to move on to freshen his career up. Hes been here a long while now , and his overall game appears to have leveled out over recent seasons.

hallamblue wrote:Many points , well made rossi, and cant disagree with a fair few if them tbh.

MM is no mug whether we like his style if not. But I'll be surprised if he continues to tolerate these lapses - he is looking for defenders, he's said that. We just have to wait and see who he brings in. But I cant see Smith lasting much longer as a CB pairing ...we shall see.

If Tommy Smith doesn't last at CB he'd be pretty much finished cos he certainly isn't a full back.
I guess his future would then be away from Portman Road or at best stay and accept being used as back up in case if injury to whoever takes his place.

Thanks Rossi.
I know exactly how you feel and why.

Problem I had was I was talking to my ITFC mad 7 year old grandson about it
but could not be as angry as I felt..

It was a case of 2 Nil and we f'd it up..

Anyway onwards and upwards

Understand Rossi's frustration, and agree that a combination of poor decision making regarding subs/tactics, and players falling short at the death, didn't help the cause. However, I still believe that we should be mentally strong/resilient enough to cope in those circumstances, and not implode at the first signs of sustained pressure. Better, though, not to make it an issue in the first place. This is where MM/TC need to have a grown up conversation with themselves - and, once and for all, learn the lessons from Saturday.

However, suggesting that MM is not right for the club is, in my view, totally misguided. Whilst he sometimes gets it wrong tactically, his positive impact across all areas of the club, gaining the loyalty of ALL staff, together with obvious media respect, should not be underestimated. True, his top priority must be winning football matches; but his off-field qualities and strength of character have been critical in returning us to being a proper football club. As ever, we need to retain a sense of perspective, and be grateful that we have the right man at the right time. In the future, who knows!

It's only the first game Rossi, don't sh*t yourself just yet.

Rossi may sound overly critical after what was still a decent result at one of the better teams in the Championship but he does make a very valid point.

Last season we dropped so many points from winning positions with only 10 mins or so to play and we've now started the new season doing exactly the same.

When you look at some of the dodgy substitutions he's made which have changed games adversely it's no surprise our manager comes in for criticism sometimes.

Top managers rarely make such naive mistakes.

Merely going over old ground but once again applaud those who bring to the fore any shortcomings of the team and management. Only about 70 per cent happy with McCarthy as it now stands and needless to say that percentage will either rise or fall by seasons' end. The pity is we have assembled a decent set-up now with regards playing individuals but other factors intrude on progress - that really needs no elaboration.

Let's remember that we played two young wingers who had storming games and probably ran themselves into the ground while at it (One of them is 17), then of course Bru got injured. They all probably needed replacing. I don't really care how negative it seems, but the players who came on should be perfectly capable of holding on to those points.

I also don't believe for a second that Mick tells them to sit back either, it just sounds like another myth constantly being dragged up from the people who expect Mick to only know hoofball.

Someone like G&B Wolfie may be able to help decipher whether the Mick McCarthy "lock up shop" myth is indeed a myth,......., or is it real?

Does MM lock up shop? Someone start one of those poll things with 478 different options for a yes/no question.

J4ck22 wrote:Let's remember that we played two young wingers who had storming games and probably ran themselves into the ground while at it (One of them is 17), then of course Bru got injured. They all probably needed replacing. I don't really care how negative it seems, but the players who came on should be perfectly capable of holding on to those points.

I also don't believe for a second that Mick tells them to sit back either, it just sounds like another myth constantly being dragged up from the people who expect Mick to only know hoofball.

It was really hot on Saturday, and as you say younger players not used to the pace and bustle of the championship, so substitutions were inevitable, the players coming on, as mentioned, should be able to maintain the 2 goal cushion. Personally I thought bringing Douglas on wasn't the right decision, as so often players in that situation don't live up to the expectation of the occasion.

I rarely post anything, just sit here and read, i will however say this......... i sat listening and i could see the end result on its way, as their second goal went in i literally reached over and turned the broadcast off! i was livid, disgusted, just soo angry and i still am! the writing was on the wall, we sat back invited them on and paid the price, TS let the defender turn him, and Bart made a complete F_ck up of the second! unbelievable!! saw it soo many times last season, as i said on TWTD, i will give that lot up the A140 credit for playing and being switched on for the entire game! Finally Rossi i,m with you on this one all the way!
As a child i would stand behind the goal on Oak rd Luton, and watch in awe as the Town keeper would always come for the ball and CATCH IT!!, Tony Read was his name, he never flapped, punched or made the crazy errors that our keepers do today, he just read the flight of the ball and collected, now why can,t ours do that?

Oxford UTD showed how to beat Brentford last night, non stop attacking footie, and 4 goals to boot, and with the new signings we made for this season, we have adequate strike force with wingers, and midfield players to do a Watford & Bournemouth, and has been suggested on here, another CB and full back wouldn't go amiss to freshen things up.

Brentford reserves you mean.

karlywoo wrote:I rarely post anything, just sit here and read, i will however say this......... i sat listening and i could see the end result on its way, as their second goal went in i literally reached over and turned the broadcast off! i was livid, disgusted, just soo angry and i still am! the writing was on the wall, we sat back invited them on and paid the price, TS let the defender turn him, and Bart made a complete F_ck up of the second! unbelievable!! saw it soo many times last season, as i said on TWTD, i will give that lot up the A140 credit for playing and being switched on for the entire game! Finally Rossi i,m with you on this one all the way!
As a child i would stand behind the goal on Oak rd Luton, and watch in awe as the Town keeper would always come for the ball and CATCH IT!!, Tony Read was his name, he never flapped, punched or made the crazy errors that our keepers do today, he just read the flight of the ball and collected, now why can,t ours do that?

I remember him well. Part of the team that were division 4 champions in 1967-68. I can still name the team that played virtually every match: Tony Read; Max Dougan, Freddy Jardine; Alan Slough, Terry Branston, John Moore; Graham French, Ian Buxton, Keith Allen, Bruce Rioch, Ray Whittaker. The sub (only allowed 1 in those days) Billy McDerment. I remember one match - not sure when - when we (Luton) were a bit short of players and Tony Read had injured his hand, so played centre forward. But you're right, he was an excellent keeper who held virtually everything.

Think maybe someone like SeattleGk would be better informed to comment on this but I'm fairly sure the game itself has changed dramatically for goalkeepers. The rules for a start are different, then there is the ball itself; it's much lighter than the heavy leather balls they used to play with, and then to top it off, there are much more physical strikers contesting every ball. Don't get me wrong, the yesteryear strikers were probably just as physical, but no where near as accurate. When a keeper makes a decision to come off his line these days, he really must be over 90% sure he's going to collect that ball.

Unless of course he's playing Hibs........, then it doesn't matter a fk.

I think you're right Marko. While keepers are far more protected by referees from physical challenges (I'm old enough to remember when they were shoulder charged into the net with the ball), there are other free-for-alls thst really should be stopped. Apart from the holding of strikers by defenders (and vice versa) at corners, I really don't understand why it's fair game to stand in front of a keeper to stop him moving. This is obstruction in every sense of the word.

so I understand rossi, you are saying that the manager who came in and saved us from relegation by putting together the best team we have had around here in years, needs to go because he doesn't know how to utilize that team?

Ohiotractorboy wrote:so I understand rossi, you are saying that the manager who came in and saved us from relegation by putting together the best team we have had around here in years, needs to go because he doesn't know how to utilize that team?

You obviously don't understand what I was saying at all.
I suggest you read it again - slowly if it's difficult for you to understand.

ah, patronize immediately. Classic.

"Excellent at putting together a decent squad...but his philosophy is tired and outdated"

"A continuation of the last 2 seasons"

"The negative and ridiculous substitiutions have carried on from last season"

"I think it all points to MM deciding to shut up shop and sending negative players on with negative instructions."


I read all those slow, and am still confused how my assesment of your post was off. It is amazing after last years success we are already looking to throw MM out after a draw in the first week.

Andym wrote:

karlywoo wrote:I rarely post anything, just sit here and read, i will however say this......... i sat listening and i could see the end result on its way, as their second goal went in i literally reached over and turned the broadcast off! i was livid, disgusted, just soo angry and i still am! the writing was on the wall, we sat back invited them on and paid the price, TS let the defender turn him, and Bart made a complete F_ck up of the second! unbelievable!! saw it soo many times last season, as i said on TWTD, i will give that lot up the A140 credit for playing and being switched on for the entire game! Finally Rossi i,m with you on this one all the way!
As a child i would stand behind the goal on Oak rd Luton, and watch in awe as the Town keeper would always come for the ball and CATCH IT!!, Tony Read was his name, he never flapped, punched or made the crazy errors that our keepers do today, he just read the flight of the ball and collected, now why can,t ours do that?

I remember him well. Part of the team that were division 4 champions in 1967-68. I can still name the team that played virtually every match: Tony Read; Max Dougan, Freddy Jardine; Alan Slough, Terry Branston, John Moore; Graham French, Ian Buxton, Keith Allen, Bruce Rioch, Ray Whittaker. The sub (only allowed 1 in those days) Billy McDerment. I remember one match - not sure when - when we (Luton) were a bit short of players and Tony Read had injured his hand, so played centre forward. But you're right, he was an excellent keeper who held virtually everything.

And one of the only two keepers ever to score a hatrick!! yes i was there in those heady days, remember Ray Whittaker? w3hat a winger, tore up the turf like a hare! my dad was a Steward so i got in on every home game and during the week as he worked for a building firm that did all LTFC work, i can remember the entire squad running up and down the terraces on the Kenilworth rd end to gain match fitness, they did it for hours!! and boy were they fit!
It was a great club in those days, sad to see them how they are now,the ground always let them down and all applications to relocate were denied! I,m a Luton boy born and bred!!

When I think of Luton Town, I think of David Pleat running across the pitch, dancing and skipping when he saved them from relegation on the last day of the season. Maybe 1983? Was great to see. And they are doing not too bad at the moment......, league 2, decent result against much fancied Oxford Utd yesterday. I've tipped Luton to win the league in the prediction league preseason questions. Hope I've not jinxed them.

Played called Antic or something if memory serves, one of the early introductions of (European) foreigners into the game.

They were big in the '80s, at least in terms of news if not stature. Prohibition of away fans, riot against Millwall, League Cup win over Arsenal, and most relevant of all for me at least, the 1985 cup semi-final in Birmingham when they really should have made it through to the final that day but somehow lost out.

Ohiotractorboy wrote:ah, patronize immediately. Classic.

"Excellent at putting together a decent squad...but his philosophy is tired and outdated"

"A continuation of the last 2 seasons"

"The negative and ridiculous substitiutions have carried on from last season"

"I think it all points to MM deciding to shut up shop and sending negative players on with negative instructions."


I read all those slow, and am still confused how my assesment of your post was off. It is amazing after last years success we are already looking to throw MM out after a draw in the first week.

Well if my reply to you was a touch patronising, you need to consider the poor attempt at sarcasm in your original observation.
Had you have read my original comments about MM last week, you will have noted that I remarked to BlueMike that I had never wanted MM here in the first place, so you can hardly accuse me of making negative comments on the back of a draw.
What I expressed was my opinion - you're of course free to disagree as much as you wish, but just get your facts straight first.

Actually, I wasn't being sarcastic. Maybe a little incredulous.

I don't have a problem that you have a negative opinion on MM, you stated it and it has lead to two different threads. That is actually good, we can't all be vanilla all the time. I just think you are mistaken is all.

marko69 wrote:When I think of Luton Town, I think of David Pleat running across the pitch, dancing and skipping when he saved them from relegation on the last day of the season. Maybe 1983? Was great to see. And they are doing not too bad at the moment......, league 2, decent result against much fancied Oxford Utd yesterday. I've tipped Luton to win the league in the prediction league preseason questions. Hope I've not jinxed them.

In his playing days, Pleat suffered a nasty broken leg in a pre season friendly behind closed doors when he was fouled and ended up going over the barriers at the edge of the pitch. My dad was a newsagent in Luton, right opposite the old market, and David Pleat was a regular visitor - I guess it was the Jewish connection, as most of the market traders were Jewish. My brother was a half decent footballer, I guess about 16 at the time. Pleat always took time to talk to him and ask him how he was doing with his football, and never spoke about his own achievements as a professional footballer. That really impressed me at the time.

Ohiotractorboy wrote:Actually, I wasn't being sarcastic. Maybe a little incredulous.

I don't have a problem that you have a negative opinion on MM, you stated it and it has lead to two different threads. That is actually good, we can't all be vanilla all the time. I just think you are mistaken is all.

Fair enough, then, and apologies that I took your original comments as being sarcastic when none was intended.

Maybe I am mistaken, maybe not - I guess time will tell.

rossi wrote:

Ohiotractorboy wrote:Actually, I wasn't being sarcastic. Maybe a little incredulous.

I don't have a problem that you have a negative opinion on MM, you stated it and it has lead to two different threads. That is actually good, we can't all be vanilla all the time. I just think you are mistaken is all.

Fair enough, then, and apologies that I took your original comments as being sarcastic when none was intended.

Maybe I am mistaken, maybe not - I guess time will tell.

Yeah, no worries. Time will indeed tell, I hope you are wrong for obvious reasons

We're going to win the league!