SWISS RAMBLE : on state of ITFC : A good insightful read

[hallamblue]

http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2017/ ... oment.html

[charlton837]

that was longer than I thought it would be! But a good, factual read backed up by figures and evidence. It does make you sympathize with Evans thinking somewhat but unfortunately this is not going to work for us. I get what he wants, but that is also contradicted by the management team he has in place. Also buying younger players doesn't always turn into good business either, the £600,000 paid for Grant Ward is not looking like good business in my opinion, perhaps he will improve in the coming years but I don't see the attitude required to do that, he doesn't work hard enough and goes missing in too many games.

I think you also need a couple of senior heads, and occasionally you need to pay for these or you will just end up with over the hill past it players who have no real motivation to succeed. You need a few players in the latter 20's/early 30's who are still performing at the top end of their game, these cost, but you do need a couple or you will end up with a lot of youth with no guidance and when they get in a rut they will struggle to battle through it which could put them back further.

Despite my criticism of MM, I do have sympathy for him, and I think he has done a good job in the main, but its not been pretty. I think where my big bug bear lies is that we were built on high pressing, closing down and putting your neck on the line with maximum effort, our defensive work was superb in the first couple of seasons under MM in the main, I don't see that at the moment, we are not closing down, we are not working hard enough to show desire. As I saw it these were the foundations we built under MM, and I think fans accepted a trade off in style against seeing a team we could be proud of because they gave everything for the cause. To me we no look like a team going through the motions, and that breeds apathy. Its so deep rooted that I don't think we can realistically return to the way we were.

I cant really put my finger on why this has happened, in the play off campaign we had Bishop in the middle who was superb and he did a job from an attacking point of view, as did Williams the year before, now MM shows no sign of ever wanting to attack from the middle of the park. The interview with Fraser highlights a worrying point for me, sometimes you have to risk a bit to gain, never risking anything ends up becoming extremely boring and you can end up losing anyway. I know personally one of the academy players who was told off for trying to take on Knudsen in training and getting a cross in, he was told he should have passed it as if he lost the ball when taking him on it could give them a chance to attack.

[Bluemike]

that was longer than I thought it would be! But a good, factual read backed up by figures and evidence. It does make you sympathize with Evans thinking somewhat but unfortunately this is not going to work for us. I get what he wants, but that is also contradicted by the management team he has in place. Also buying younger players doesn't always turn into good business either, the £600,000 paid for Grant Ward is not looking like good business in my opinion, perhaps he will improve in the coming years but I don't see the attitude required to do that, he doesn't work hard enough and goes missing in too many games.

I think you also need a couple of senior heads, and occasionally you need to pay for these or you will just end up with over the hill past it players who have no real motivation to succeed. You need a few players in the latter 20's/early 30's who are still performing at the top end of their game, these cost, but you do need a couple or you will end up with a lot of youth with no guidance and when they get in a rut they will struggle to battle through it which could put them back further.

Despite my criticism of MM, I do have sympathy for him, and I think he has done a good job in the main, but its not been pretty. I think where my big bug bear lies is that we were built on high pressing, closing down and putting your neck on the line with maximum effort, our defensive work was superb in the first couple of seasons under MM in the main, I don't see that at the moment, we are not closing down, we are not working hard enough to show desire. As I saw it these were the foundations we built under MM, and I think fans accepted a trade off in style against seeing a team we could be proud of because they gave everything for the cause. To me we no look like a team going through the motions, and that breeds apathy. Its so deep rooted that I don't think we can realistically return to the way we were.

I cant really put my finger on why this has happened, in the play off campaign we had Bishop in the middle who was superb and he did a job from an attacking point of view, as did Williams the year before, now MM shows no sign of ever wanting to attack from the middle of the park. The interview with Fraser highlights a worrying point for me, sometimes you have to risk a bit to gain, never risking anything ends up becoming extremely boring and you can end up losing anyway. I know personally one of the academy players who was told off for trying to take on Knudsen in training and getting a cross in, he was told he should have passed it as if he lost the ball when taking him on it could give them a chance to attack.

That is exactly what I said in my report after the Huddersfield game, we have lost our identity and all the things we did so well to nulify teams greater ability levels have now ceased, until that returns we will tread water at best.

Reading through the rather long report one thing that doesn't take much savvy to suss out is that given the financial constraints Mick has worked under he has without doubt done a fantastic job and I would challenge any other manager to come in and do what he has done with so little, even the great managers have to spend bloody millions and most of them fail. Unfortunately you can only go on for so long mixing it with the big spenders as each year the gulf gets bigger and bigger, we are clearly now at that point that even an experienced manager like MM cannot compete with the obscene amounts of parachute money others get for failing and being sh*te. I feel had we continued to at least be attractive to watch that even sitting in 14th would have been accepted by a fair few more Town fans, of course you will always get the dimwits who look at the table and nothing else, sometimes the bigger picture is very relevent. Unfortunately the majority of Town fans have now been lost by Mick and that is the main reason I see him as needing to go, not because he is a poor manager, the article proves otherwise.

[hallamblue]

I think Town fans tend to muddle two main issues as I see it.

1. Trying to compete with parachute supported clubs and the knock on effect regarding our ability to sign players.

2. The brand of football and negative ultra defrndive tactics McCarthy dishes up


For me, it has ALWAYS been the issues in #2. Even when we were winning games. I've hated the way we play . I find utterly boring. This season it has become soul destroying.


The Swiss report is extremely thorough. He is clearly a financially trained individual. If people take time to look through his comments and the graphics it is clear that Evans is doing a good job with a set of cards that are ridiculously stacked in favour of the PL failures and their sky parachute money.

Evans and MM are trying a different approach of young talent from the lower leagues ( for reduced fess in the current market ), and developing our own academy players. That's fine I can run with this approach. But Do wonder how on board is Mick with this approach. We are seeing youngsters get a run out but it doesn't take much for some to be dropped in favour of the some "real blokes".

We have to have some sympathy for MM because once again we have had a significant injury list to out more creative / influencial players. But Micks constant playing players out of their recognised position is what really gets me. We don't get the best out of a player being asked to "do a job " in an unfamiliar position. Fine for a week or two to help cover injuries. But if we don't have a player who is comfortable with a position in. the team, surely MM's job is to get a player in that can play in that position.


The report questions whether Town will ever gain promotion under thd current financial inequality. I suspect. not.

[Charnwood]

Although I've probably not taken it all in cos to be honest I found it simply to much to digest, what it suggests is that Town is probably still a well run business sensibly controlled by an owner who has no intention to pour more millions of pounds down the drain chasing a dream that may never happen.

I think when he took over he thought appointing Keane and giving him millions would buy instant success and burned his fingers, his dabble with Jewell was even less successful.

Clearly he's decided on a very different route which involves far less financial investment, more hard work, more investment in player development and lot of luck.

It also shows how much the club relies on gate revenue so the fans clearly do have a big part to play because without them paying at the turnstile the club will continue to decline.

The more I read the more I think pushing McCarthy out is high risk, as there are probably few managers who could do any bettter with the resources at his disposal.

It all depends what we want, but clearly if we want an owner who is prepared to risk millions to get us out of this league we need Marcus Evans to sell up to a mega millionaire as per the Leicester City guy. Or we accept this simply isn't going to happen and we support the "as is" knowing that we're in relatively safe hands, and sit back and wait for a team to evolve over what could be many years in the Championship or worse.

A very thought provoking read, I just wish it was a bit shorter so I could have read it more thoroughly.

[loudnproud]

An interesting read and supported by facts and figures,Suspect the blogger has or is on the ME pay role in some capacity and is attempting to appease the fans. The fans simply want to be entertained and see some of this "young" talent emerging, But do they get a chance under the current manager set up? Playing defensive hoof ball is not the answer and certainly not what the fans want to see and pay good money to currently endure.

[number 9]

Although I've probably not taken it all in cos to be honest I found it simply to much to digest, what it suggests is that Town is probably still a well run business sensibly controlled by an owner who has no intention to pour more millions of pounds down the drain chasing a dream that may never happen.

I think when he took over he thought appointing Keane and giving him millions would buy instant success and burned his fingers, his dabble with Jewell was even less successful.

Clearly he's decided on a very different route which involves far less financial investment, more hard work, more investment in player development and lot of luck.

It also shows how much the club relies on gate revenue so the fans clearly do have a big part to play because without them paying at the turnstile the club will continue to decline.

The more I read the more I think pushing McCarthy out is high risk, as there are probably few managers who could do any bettter with the resources at his disposal.

It all depends what we want, but clearly if we want an owner who is prepared to risk millions to get us out of this league we need Marcus Evans to sell up to a mega millionaire as per the Leicester City guy. Or we accept this simply isn't going to happen and we support the "as is" knowing that we're in relatively safe hands, and sit back and wait for a team to evolve over what could be many years in the Championship or worse.

A very thought provoking read, I just wish it was a bit shorter so I could have read it more thoroughly.

I think fans are losing interest in this business model. Imagine what the younger fans must be thinking...us old farts have at least witnessed a successful ITFC...they havn't seen it. If this business model continues to be enforced, I think it will be the beginning of the end of ITFC. We may survive a few more years, but inevitably we'll end up being relegated. In another thread, the topic is Where has it all gone wrong? There are many more Championship clubs with money now; if we can't compete financially, we'll never be promoted. And as far as MM is concerned, I still think there's a better manager out there for ITFC.

[Charnwood]

Although I've probably not taken it all in cos to be honest I found it simply to much to digest, what it suggests is that Town is probably still a well run business sensibly controlled by an owner who has no intention to pour more millions of pounds down the drain chasing a dream that may never happen.

I think when he took over he thought appointing Keane and giving him millions would buy instant success and burned his fingers, his dabble with Jewell was even less successful.

Clearly he's decided on a very different route which involves far less financial investment, more hard work, more investment in player development and lot of luck.

It also shows how much the club relies on gate revenue so the fans clearly do have a big part to play because without them paying at the turnstile the club will continue to decline.

The more I read the more I think pushing McCarthy out is high risk, as there are probably few managers who could do any bettter with the resources at his disposal.

It all depends what we want, but clearly if we want an owner who is prepared to risk millions to get us out of this league we need Marcus Evans to sell up to a mega millionaire as per the Leicester City guy. Or we accept this simply isn't going to happen and we support the "as is" knowing that we're in relatively safe hands, and sit back and wait for a team to evolve over what could be many years in the Championship or worse.

A very thought provoking read, I just wish it was a bit shorter so I could have read it more thoroughly.

I think fans are losing interest in this business model. Imagine what the younger fans must be thinking...us old farts have at least witnessed a successful ITFC...they havn't seen it. If this business model continues to be enforced, I think it will be the beginning of the end of ITFC. We may survive a few more years, but inevitably we'll end up being relegated. In another thread, the topic is Where has it all gone wrong? There are many more Championship clubs with money now; if we can't compete financially, we'll never be promoted. And as far as MM is concerned, I still think there's a better manager out there for ITFC.

There may well be a better manager for us out there but can we find him at the first attempt able and willing to manage with f*ck all money. My fear is that if we get it wrong and get relegated I simply don't see us bouncing back anytime soon.

[Bluemike]

I don't think we would ever come back, in fact I could see the club imploding.

[hallamblue]

Would agree with that in part. How long have the Blades been in League One now?

[Bluemike]

Would agree with that in part. How long have the Blades been in League One now?

Not long enough !

[Charnwood]

.... and that's exactly why we have to be very careful what we wish for because there are very fine margins between success and failure once you slip into the relegation dog fight which could be closer than we think.

Marcus Evans has saved us once from almost certain relegation, we just have to hope he can makes the right decision again when it comes to Mick McCarthy's future and if he chooses to replace him, that he makes the right appointment.

Getting these decisions wrong could be catastrophic.

[number 9]

Since Roy Keane's appointment, we've been on a downward spiral. MM came in and saved us from relegation, but under his management we're starting to regress...quite rapidly. Fans, such as myself, are now fearful of relegation with Mick at the reigns. MM's replacement will be critical to our survival, and I'd think that ME is seeking advice for Mick's eventual replacement. One thing that isn't going to change is investment in the squad, so the next manager should be proven with similar conditions.

When you say be careful what you wish for...I say, be careful what you don't wish for.

[Tangfastic]

Since Roy Keane's appointment, we've been on a downward spiral. MM came in and saved us from relegation, but under his management we're starting to regress...quite rapidly. Fans, such as myself, are now fearful of relegation with Mick at the reigns. MM's replacement will be critical to our survival, and I'd think that ME is seeking advice for Mick's eventual replacement. One thing that isn't going to change is investment in the squad, so the next manager should be proven with similar conditions.

When you say be careful what you wish for...I say, be careful what you don't wish for.

I've grown to hate the phrase ' be careful what you wish for'.

It doesn't solve anything and it's intention is to sow fear and worse-case scenarios.

the whole point of the article was to say we're stuck in a depressing cycle. Can't see any solution there though. If we are going to get out of this it won't be with MM's tactics and distrust of attacking football and youth. I'm hoping ME sees this and is looking to next season for a potential manager who bring some spark and intensity to this club. I don't this get attitude that if MM goes we will descend into catastrophy. It's the same kind of fear that dictators drip-feed to people and make them feel grateful for what little they have and to keep them in check.

[Dubai Blue]

[quote]I think fans are losing interest in this business model[quote]

This is the football league's business model. We are forced to implement it because we don't have a bonkers super trillionaire owner. And FFP even tries to reduce the chance of a bonkers owner from being able to splash his cash. What we are seeing is the continuing DELIBERATE process of PL riches being spread amongst a progressively smaller number of clubs.

Yes every now and again a smaller club might do a Bournemouth or a Burnley but this will happen less and less.

This 'business model' will in all probability keep us in the Champ for many years to come, with only an outside chance of relegation and an even smaller chance of relegation.

Quality really does come at a price and the gulf is growing all the time and being managed so that it does so.

[number 9]

I think fans are losing interest in this business model

This is the football league's business model. We are forced to implement it because we don't have a bonkers super trillionaire owner. And FFP even tries to reduce the chance of a bonkers owner from being able to splash his cash. What we are seeing is the continuing DELIBERATE process of PL riches being spread amongst a progressively smaller number of clubs.

Yes every now and again a smaller club might do a Bournemouth or a Burnley but this will happen less and less.

This 'business model' will in all probability keep us in the Champ for many years to come, with only an outside chance of relegation and an even smaller chance of relegation.

Quality really does come at a price and the gulf is growing all the time and being managed so that it does so.

Yeah I know all about ITFC's business constraints...doesn't mean I agree with it. I can't agree that this 'biz-model' will keep us in the Championship and prevent relegation. You say it's the 'football league's business model'...but, more clubs in the Champ have much more money now. Consequently, the added 'cash' makes Championship survival even more expensive. Btw, have you checked ME's worth lately???

[marko69]

I know it has been discussed to the N'th degree, but Mevans no doubt had, (initially) very good and very high intentions for the club. But hiring Roy Keane effectively ruined the club from 09 until now. Not Mevans fault,..., I myself thought Roy c**tKeane would've achieved more. But since then until now, the game, and the money within, has dramatically changed and, for me, the trick has been missed.

Ludicrous money. And clubs like Bournemouth and Burnley (as stated) can now afford "ludicrous money". So every time Mr Klug discovers a potential gem, the excitement is borderline non existent because everyone knows the player will be off before Ipswich Town have benefitted substantially on the field. The club will never make the EPL when the ludicrous money continues to be offered every few years whilst reinvestment doesn't happen due to burnt fingers after c**tKeane and Tampax Pishflapskin. And so it'll go on and on and on.
WITH MEVANS as owner, the opportunity has been missed.

New owner required, not a mental splasher of cash, but an owner who's vision is like Mevans' original vision, ......, and a manager like Dyche, who for me, deserves more credit than he gets.