I expect these players to leave Town at end of season?

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herforder
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Re: I expect these players to leave Town at end of season?

Post by herforder » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:47 pm

Some of the navel gazing's getting a tad barking. But that's football - mustn't let the facts get in the way.....!

(Found out today that Bart and I have something in common - we share the same barbers! Bart getting himself ready to receive Player of the Year award tomorro?. A really nice guy, btw.)

charlton837
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Re: I expect these players to leave Town at end of season?

Post by charlton837 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:59 pm

bluemike wrote:I also don't believe he would do anything to deliberately p*ss fans off, lets face it him just breathing pisses many fans off these days.
Never had this much animosity towards him until recently but things he has said have really rubbed me up the wrong way. To both you and mako what I meant by my comments was that if all of us fans can see things (ie. Douglas and skuse never worked) then why can't he? Even the ardant MM lovers would say they agree with that, why doesn't mick see it, it took him 18 months and ended up happening because the fans hounded Douglas out.

Also Knudsen, who can agree he is better than Kenlock, these guys need to develop by playing, hes already better than Knudsen.

Regarding Spence I take your point he has done ok, is there much in it between Spence and Emmanuel? Not in my opinion, he just needs to play regularly In order to develop. Andy is right about playing youngsters for 20-25 mins such s dozzell but when they are 20/21 they should be ready for playing regularly

Hertforder I will agree with you on one thing, Bart is a nice guy, I had the pleasure to meet him at the bar in Düsseldorf at pre season game last season

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marko69
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Re: I expect these players to leave Town at end of season?

Post by marko69 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:20 pm

charlton837 wrote:
bluemike wrote:I also don't believe he would do anything to deliberately p*ss fans off, lets face it him just breathing pisses many fans off these days.
Never had this much animosity towards him until recently but things he has said have really rubbed me up the wrong way. To both you and mako what I meant by my comments was that if all of us fans can see things (ie. Douglas and skuse never worked) then why can't he? Even the ardant MM lovers would say they agree with that, why doesn't mick see it, it took him 18 months and ended up happening because the fans hounded Douglas out.

Also Knudsen, who can agree he is better than Kenlock, these guys need to develop by playing, hes already better than Knudsen.

Regarding Spence I take your point he has done ok, is there much in it between Spence and Emmanuel? Not in my opinion, he just needs to play regularly In order to develop. Andy is right about playing youngsters for 20-25 mins such s dozzell but when they are 20/21 they should be ready for playing regularly

Hertforder I will agree with you on one thing, Bart is a nice guy, I had the pleasure to meet him at the bar in Düsseldorf at pre season game last season
Aw no, name change. Better start brushing up on the Japanese!

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herforder
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Re: I expect these players to leave Town at end of season?

Post by herforder » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:40 pm

marko69 wrote:
charlton837 wrote:
bluemike wrote:I also don't believe he would do anything to deliberately p*ss fans off, lets face it him just breathing pisses many fans off these days.
Never had this much animosity towards him until recently but things he has said have really rubbed me up the wrong way. To both you and mako what I meant by my comments was that if all of us fans can see things (ie. Douglas and skuse never worked) then why can't he? Even the ardant MM lovers would say they agree with that, why doesn't mick see it, it took him 18 months and ended up happening because the fans hounded Douglas out.

Also Knudsen, who can agree he is better than Kenlock, these guys need to develop by playing, hes already better than Knudsen.

Regarding Spence I take your point he has done ok, is there much in it between Spence and Emmanuel? Not in my opinion, he just needs to play regularly In order to develop. Andy is right about playing youngsters for 20-25 mins such s dozzell but when they are 20/21 they should be ready for playing regularly

Hertforder I will agree with you on one thing, Bart is a nice guy, I had the pleasure to meet him at the bar in Düsseldorf at pre season game last season
Aw no, name change. Better start brushing up on the Japanese!
I let mine go! :wink: Not ganging up, honest!

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Re: I expect these players to leave Town at end of season?

Post by Bluemike » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:44 pm

"Fans hounded Douglas out "

That for me says it all, true fans don't do it, end of. If I was Mick I would probably have played Douglas out of spite, I'm a loyal person and I believe Mick is exactly the same. After the appaling scenes at QPR when Douglas was given dogs abuse for coming on for Kenlock (and yes he was injured despite loads of know it alls giving it large to Mick for making the change) it was as clear as day that the players could not believe what they were hearing, Pitman and one or two others were visibly stunned by the sh*t behaviour of so called fans, I believe at that point the siege mentality of the squad got stronger and it would not surprise me one bit if most if not all of the players think the same about the fans as MM comes out with.

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herforder
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Re: I expect these players to leave Town at end of season?

Post by herforder » Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:16 pm

In the same way that supporters have no direct influence over managerial decisions, or players brought in or shipped out, so the Club has no influence on the diversity and passions of its supporters. I actually believe that the mainly silent majority, whilst rightly being critical and frustrated, nevertheless want the best for the Club, and understand where the line needs to be drawn. Appreciating that continuous negativity, or targeting inividuals who, despite their limitations, are nonetheless doing their best when pulling on the shirt, ultimately serves no positive purpose. And if there were significantly better players within the squad, able to play at a consistently high standard over 46 games, in probably one of the toughest leagues in professional football, then it's naive to think that MM would not play them out of some perverse desire to annoy the very supporters who are the Club's life blood.

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Re: I expect these players to leave Town at end of season?

Post by charlton837 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:48 am

Sorry Marko! Writing these posts on my phone rarely goes to plan!

Mike don't get me wrong I agree with you, however things should never have got that bad. I'm not a boo boy, I dont agree with it but I understand on that occasion why it happened. I was also at QPR and found myself booing the decision not the player. I think also it was Knudsen that came on for Kenlock, Douglas came on for Bru but we were in control of that game and people were frustrated because that sub clear as day lost us that game, actually that was the match I decided I wanted MM gone.

Loyalty is a good trait but blind loyalty is dangerous. If we had nobody better than that blame lies at the managers door, he should have made it his priority end of last season as we were just as poor offensively from midfield last season as we have been this. Mike I think in one of your reports (qpr maybe?) you said even you ended up joining in with some of the negative chants, it's easy to find yourself doing it when so much frustration is evident. As I've said before how else can fans get their view accross? This is 18 months of frustration, its not happening off a whim.

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Re: I expect these players to leave Town at end of season?

Post by Bluemike » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:16 am

You may be right with the subs but the fact remains the reaction etc was bang out of order, we did not lose that game because of substitutions, we lost it cus we missed a stack of chances, even after Douglas came on we created chances, Webster then f*cked up for their winner, not down to anything Mick did at all, we played well that day and should have won so for me he got it right, the players missed chances and made individual errors.

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Re: I expect these players to leave Town at end of season?

Post by Bluemike » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:21 am

And yes Charlton, you are right in that at the time even I did blame MM but sometimes in the heat of the moment we all say things and get it wrong

charlton837
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Re: I expect these players to leave Town at end of season?

Post by charlton837 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:21 am

I don't agree there but i guess that's why we like football, everybody has a different view. I remember pitman having a good chance but aside from that once we made the sub we sat back. Maybe we would have conceded anyway but the sub contributed towards turning a good positive atmosphere into a very bad one.

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herforder
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Re: I expect these players to leave Town at end of season?

Post by herforder » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:40 am

I don't believe there's such a thing as 'blind loyalty' in football. There's a huge difference, however, in deep-seated and enduring love of a club; as opposed to its temporary owners, managers or players. Ultimately they will be gone. The more you live through the good and bad times, the stronger that loyalty becomes, and maybe you acquire a greater understanding of the difference. Bobby Robson understood this and articulated it brilliantly.

Supporters aren't stupid, and are fully capable of deciding if and when a personal tipping point
is reached in terms of continued support. All involved in the club know how supporters feel in response to what has been a miserable season - suspect that final ST figures will be a tangible measure of how strong! But those who continue to follow will have made a conscious decision to do so.

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Re: I expect these players to leave Town at end of season?

Post by Bluemike » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:06 am

The thing that gets to me is the fickle nature of our fans, people hate that word but it's a fact. I have seen it first hand on numerous occasions this season, even from one half to the next in certain games, we are playing well and leading and MM has got it right blah blah blah to suddenly losing a silly goal and suddenly those same fans are proclaiming us to be f**king sh*te and Mick needs to go cus he got it wrong blah blah blah, its laughable and indicative of how thick a alrge percentage of our support is, purely my opinion of course !!!!!

We tend to get two seperate scenarios mixed up here, I have no issue whatsoever with people bemoaning starting line up's, tactics, substitutions, you name it, I get all of that and do it myself, however when those Eleven cross the line or a Johnny Douglas comes on as a sub you f**king well get behind them and support them not start the booing, no matter who it is aimed at it will have an affect on said player, the moronds that do it have definitely contributed in making this a sh*te season, especially at home, I stand with them, I see them, finding a brain cell is nigh on impossible where a lot of them are concerned.

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