Will this change next season?

Here you can chat about everything and anything related to ITFC and other football issues. This forum also hosts the now Internationally famous TB.com ITFC match previews which contain insightful pre-match thoughts, previous highlights, news links relating to Town, form guides and other bits and pieces. Feel free to discuss meet ups/travel plans in here as well.

Moderators: marko69, Bluemike, Charnwood

Post Reply
Andym
Posts: 5355
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:47 pm
Location: Mid Suffolk

Will this change next season?

Post by Andym » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:36 pm

I rarely venture onto TWTD but picked up on this.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/blogs/21671/desp ... mal-season

It says more concisely and eloquently what i have said for the last couple of years or more. The Jay Tabb quote is worrying but not surprising.

I'm still unsure whether the atrocious passing stats are down to poor skill levels, poor coaching / orders (as per Tabb quote) or players not moving off the ball to make passes available. I suspect it's a combination of all 3.

hallamblue
Posts: 30856
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:30 pm
Location: Ipswich Town F.C.

Re: Will this change next season?

Post by hallamblue » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:14 am

Andy I've often complained that we are too static. I personally feel this is coached and is linked to McCarthy reluctance to have a team that gets forward. Knudsen is a classic example Knudsen without fail carry the ball out of defence to treat half way line , turn and pass the ball BACK to Berra who promptly hoofs it , usually out of play.

I'm hoping, Kenlock keeps that LB slot he's miles ahead of Knudsen and perhaps with Webster back. in the team ( I'm personally not a fan of Smith he's also too one dimensional) and that we can get Bishop and Dozzell in that midfield.

User avatar
herforder
Posts: 2764
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:34 am

Re: Will this change next season?

Post by herforder » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:32 am

An interesting, if not despressing, litany of forensic stats confirming what we have witnessed and suffered for far too long under the current regime. Lack of investment and ambition; a one dimensional, risk-averse, coaching philisophy; players whose naturally offensive instincts have been blunted, and a fear of making mistakes, leading to a chronic lack of confidence and belief. As Andy says, all contributory factors. Will it change for the better? There's undoubtedly a recognition that it needs to, and early signs are more positive than negative. But can old leopards truly change their spots - particularly when/if when under pressure?

It would be really interesting if MM could be persuaded to be a tad more open about his fundamental management, training and coaching principles, and how he believes they have had to be compromised in his current role. But that, I guess, is something he'll chose to pass on!

User avatar
number 9
Posts: 6529
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:35 pm

Re: Will this change next season?

Post by number 9 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:37 pm

It has to come down to the manager and coaching, doesn't it? The players are still professionals regardless of their individual ability. I mean, passing and moving into space are fundamentals of the game...aren't they? I don't expect Chambers to run up the field with the ball and score a wonder goal, but I do expect him to know how to pass and move into space.

Andym
Posts: 5355
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:47 pm
Location: Mid Suffolk

Re: Will this change next season?

Post by Andym » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:37 pm

number 9 wrote:It has to come down to the manager and coaching, doesn't it? The players are still professionals regardless of their individual ability. I mean, passing and moving into space are fundamentals of the game...aren't they? I don't expect Chambers to run up the field with the ball and score a wonder goal, but I do expect him to know how to pass and move into space.
I agree and that's what I was hinting at. I really believe it a lot of it comes down to management and coaching rather than the individual abilities of the players, which is why I can't see any change coming regardless of who we sign.

Regarding Chambers, passing is a real shortcoming of the defence. But I suspect some of that is coached into them, and the rest is down to the likes of Skuse who, as I have said many times before, is happy to play at solar eclipses, i.e. when our defence have the ball he will stand still with an opposing player between the player in possession and himself. Until we replace him with someone who actually moves his arse to receive a pass, the defence have few choices open to them. But I suspect he'll be ever-present again this season, and it frustrates the f*ck out of me.

I wouldn't suggest that Bishop is the answer in the defensive role but when he played there he runs. He demands the ball. That's what a defensive midfielder has to do.

User avatar
marko69
Global Moderator
Posts: 24186
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:16 am
Location: Somewhere between here and there.

Re: Will this change next season?

Post by marko69 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:25 pm

Andym wrote:I wouldn't suggest that Bishop is the answer in the defensive role but when he played there he runs. He demands the ball.
Then the wind changes, he falls on his ar$e, and he's out for three months.

User avatar
number 9
Posts: 6529
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:35 pm

Re: Will this change next season?

Post by number 9 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:42 am

Yeah Bishop does have a history of being fragile. Christ, I never realized how complicated football has become. We've got youngsters more injury prone than old geezers like Marko. He'd probably pull a hamstring trying to chip that scotch-egg on to his plate! And defintely an achilles when last call proclaims the drinks are on me. Fuckin Boiler mechanics...Have you turned off the water supply sir?

User avatar
marko69
Global Moderator
Posts: 24186
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:16 am
Location: Somewhere between here and there.

Re: Will this change next season?

Post by marko69 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:21 am

^^ :lol: ^^ superb stuff.

Definitely true on the Achilles problem with the last bell!
"FK, is it that time already? Quick!"

And can I ask anyone on here........ do any of you English people eat Scotch eggs? Bloody disgusting things.

Andym
Posts: 5355
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:47 pm
Location: Mid Suffolk

Re: Will this change next season?

Post by Andym » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:16 am

marko69 wrote:
Andym wrote:I wouldn't suggest that Bishop is the answer in the defensive role but when he played there he runs. He demands the ball.
Then the wind changes, he falls on his ar$e, and he's out for three months.
I wouldn't disagree. Like I say, I'm not sure Bishop is the answer. But someone - anyone - who moves into space and demands the ball. Please. We cannot afford to carry Skuse for another season.....although we all know we will.

User avatar
herforder
Posts: 2764
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:34 am

Re: Will this change next season?

Post by herforder » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:17 pm

As the holding/defensive midfield guy, Skuse does a reasonable job at breaking up the opposition's play, and doing a lot of the dirty, unglamorous stuff - hence why he's so dear to MM's heart!

At best a consistently 5-6 Championship standard player, with limited technical skill, pace, or vision, he does what MM demands of him, in a very physical league. Pinging defence-splitting passes, or taking out opposition players with off-the-ball movement or guile, ain't what he's ever been about. Most teams have a midfield player in that, or similar, role; balanced with more creative and attack minded players, charged with carrying the ball, passing at pace, finding width and supporting the forwards. But that assumes MM sets up with offensive, as opposed to defensive, intent, which governs how the whole team operates. Hopefully, once the summer sort-out is complete, we'll be better able to gauge whether next season will be Ground Hog Day revisited, or the dawning of a new, adventurous and entertaining, era. But responsibility for that can't all be laid on Skuse.

Andym
Posts: 5355
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:47 pm
Location: Mid Suffolk

Re: Will this change next season?

Post by Andym » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:16 pm

herforder wrote:As the holding/defensive midfield guy, Skuse does a reasonable job at breaking up the opposition's play, and doing a lot of the dirty, unglamorous stuff - hence why he's so dear to MM's heart!

At best a consistently 5-6 Championship standard player, with limited technical skill, pace, or vision, he does what MM demands of him, in a very physical league. Pinging defence-splitting passes, or taking out opposition players with off-the-ball movement or guile, ain't what he's ever been about. Most teams have a midfield player in that, or similar, role; balanced with more creative and attack minded players, charged with carrying the ball, passing at pace, finding width and supporting the forwards. But that assumes MM sets up with offensive, as opposed to defensive, intent, which governs how the whole team operates. Hopefully, once the summer sort-out is complete, we'll be better able to gauge whether next season will be Ground Hog Day revisited, or the dawning of a new, adventurous and entertaining, era. But responsibility for that can't all be laid on Skuse.
While I wouldn't disagree - there have been matches when I've said Skuse was our best player - all I'm asking is that we put someone in that position who actually moves and wants the ball. Not to play defence-splitting passes or take people on, just to make themselves available, receive the ball and move it on. He isn't an awful player but essentially summarises MM's approach; stop the opposition playing. Once in possession the game essentially stops.

User avatar
arana peligrosa
Posts: 10483
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:41 pm

Re: Will this change next season?

Post by arana peligrosa » Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:44 am

Bottom line unless these new kids that are coming in close-season provide some sort of catalyst or the remaining squad members drastically change their attitude, you can expect minimal change from what just occurred. Lost count the number of instances last season where you'd read (or on rare occasion view as a live witness) the majority of team didn't turn up or played with apathetic abandonment. Lost points would have reached double figures without question as a direct result of it.

Seems too often the team has players that have the capabilities to succeed, but not the inclination. Keeping the manager in place for another year is a highly questionable decision and unless McCarthy radically alters his demeanor and takes games seriously, I don't how much difference any potential signings are going to be to us.

User avatar
marko69
Global Moderator
Posts: 24186
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:16 am
Location: Somewhere between here and there.

Re: Will this change next season?

Post by marko69 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:28 am

saint jude wrote:Bottom line unless these new kids that are coming in close-season provide some sort of catalyst or the remaining squad members drastically change their attitude, you can expect minimal change.........
You can place every remaining Championship side beside that ^^^ comment.

It's still June and the management team seem to be working hard on it. I think most will be feeling a tad more positive come end of July. Except me of course as the Edinburgh Festival will be starting and the place will be crawling with annoying bstd Americans.

Post Reply