Whatever happened to our patience chaps & chapesses?

[barmy billy]

Ive sat back for a couple of days (which is a long time for me) and read with much interest all the debate following Sundays defeat on what is wrong with the club and where the club should be heading and how this should be achieved and who is to blame for this and that, some of it I agree with and as you would expect some of it I most definitely diasgree with, a large part of me still feels like the best thing is to say sod it and stay quiet about things that really bug me, but having received plenty of positive comments, PM's etc etc maybe I would be foolish to let a couple of comments which really pissed me off big time drive me away from the only ITFC forum that I bother to post on, more importantly than that I owe it to Dave (Frosty) to continue.

Having read through everything my take on all this is as follows. I firmly believe Marko is spot on with his comment that much of this was down to derby defeat over reaction, lets be perfectly honest here we played pretty well first half and but for a bit of bad luck and woeful finishing could and probably should have been Two up at half time, the starting Eleven was pretty much what most if not all Town fans would have gone with, OK a case could be made for Celina but that aside it was the team we would have picked, I would like someone to tell me where this ridiuclous assumption came from that Didsy & Waghorn were played as wingers out wide ? They weren't at all, they were played in a 4-3-3 formation alongside Joe Garner who was through the centre, that is hardly being played out of position at all but I think it helps the argument from those who are anti MM that he is playing players out of position, it just isn't correct, they have played in a front Three numerous times, any striker will have to be able to do that, had we played 4-4-2 with Waghorn and/or Didsy out wide then fair enough but they were hardly getting chalk on their boots !! When I went down to the concourse at HT there wasn't a single negative comment from all around, in fact people were saying "we've got them this time" and "what a promising performance" etc. Nobody at that point was even suggesting we had got it wrong on the day because we had been the better side. What followed after the break was a different scenario altogether because we failed to turn up and let them have it to a degree, the one piece of real quality they showed all game resulted in a goal from the best player on the pitch and we stood off them and let them play it. After the goal we lost our way and resulted to trying to long ball it in our quest to get back into it, I agree that was disappointing and people have a right to feel let down, again though it is made to sound much worse that in really was, Bart had no other real save to make and for those who say we created nothing second half, where were you when Didsy's glancing header at 0-0 just sailed past the post ? Or when Waghorn curled his effort a couple of inches over the bar ? Or when Skuse hit his chance so tamely I could have saved it ? where was everyone ? In the toilet ? On your phone ? At the bar or just refusing to accept the fact that actually we were still in the game and creating chances ? As I said it builds up the case against the manager by creating scenarios that just aren't factual.

I've seen it said that we should be entitled to expect to be entertained with better football, have we not been by and large this season ? Again it has been inferred that we are falling back into old habits with boring, long ball hoofing, well I am fortunate in that I get to see every minute of every game live and again this is just not the case, ok we did do a fair bit of it at Sheffield Utd and in the second half against the scum, I think there was one other game at home where we saw it for a spell but again aside from that we have tried to adopt a new approach and style of play which believe it or not takes time to adjust to, I have not been bored in most of the games this season, last season was light years away from this time around.

It has been suggested that we should be brave and take a chance on a new and younger manager, Eddie Howe and David Wagner's names cropped up, two success stories who it has to be said still had mega millions to spend in comparison to us, it is ok taking a risk when you have an open cheque book but a risk in our shoes is a Two fold risk which we just cannot afford to take, Howe spent bloody loads, wagner maybe not quite so much but still way more than we ever will, for me all this talk is really on the back of a defeat to Norwich, had we won that game this forum would have had half as many posts and none alluding to the sweeping changes some are asking for. Lets look at the facts after all, should we win our game in hand we would be a single point off the top Six, at our current win rate we will win half our games this season, 70 points minimum, at present only Two teams have scored more goals despite us having played less games, yes the Six defeats in Eight is a genuine cause for concern but in two or three of those games it has not been a true reflection of how we played, Leeds being the obvious example. Does the position we currently find ourselves really deserves this level of unrest ? I find it all a bit crazy if I am being totally honest, My take on it is that we need to realise we are not that far away from where we want to be despite being on a bad run, at the very least we need to see where we are at the turn of the year and evaluate it then, if we are still dropping away then maybe some of the cause for concern is valid but its very premature right now and turning on the team at this stage is going to do exactly what it did last season and that is to make the players more nervous and it will only hinder their performances further.

I see that G&B has come in for what I consider to be some out of order grief because he dares to defend the manager, G&B is spot on with his comment that sometimes it takes an outsider to help you see and realise exactly what you have, this is why we always hear the TV pundits saying Mick is doing a fabulous job with his hands tied behind his back, why do we hear it so often ? Maybe just maybe it is the truth and reality. As has been pointed out we were so near to being a Coventry/Portsmouth/ Charlton etc and should be thankful we have had Sixteen tedious years in this league, the alternatives do not bare thinking about. I also agree we don't have to be grateful to MM for ever and a day for saving us but aside from last season we have done bloody well to finish in 6th and 7th etc, we had no right to be there at all. I firmly believe it is all about the results where 95% of Town fans are concerned, in fact Mach said it himself, boring 1-0 wins will do for him any day and had we been played off the park by Norwich and won 1-0 this would be a happy place and certainly much quieter.

So ME needs to sell up, ok do we have a list of names of people that are willing to buy 86 Million worth of debt ? It's one thing buying a Man City or a Chelsea but this is little old Ipswich, I doubt there is going to be queues of people falling over themselves to snap us up any time soon, look at Bolton they were in a bad old way and struggled to find a buyer and there are plenty of others, people say ME is not interested in ITFC as he ONLY puts in 6 or 7 Million a year, and this from some who won't invest 25 quid to go to a game to support their team they love cus times are hard for our club right now ! I am no ME lover by any stretch and if he did sell up I would not be upset at all, however it is far from being as straightforward as that when in the position we are in and I suspect he will be around for a long while yet.

So to conclude I think all this anti Mick talk again is yet another Knee jerk reaction to losing to Norwich, I do accept the current run of Six defeats in Eight needs to be addressed, I don't believe it has set the trend for the season at all. I also believe that we are trying to move forward with a plan and a direction, I know Charlton has stated that he see's no direction etc, I think we do have one, our academy is producing some great kids and they are getting game time, I also think our signings this season have been good, nearly everyone was raving about Garner, Waghorn, Adeyemi, Huws and Celina saying Mick and Marcus had done well this close season, is that different Twelve games in ? Mick is trying to accomodate them all in his line up, again the fans wanted that so when he goes with a 4-3-3 or something don't cry cus Didsy is half a yard out of position !!! Had we been offered this position at the start of the season I doubt many would have turned it down, in fact had we lost the First Four and then won the more recent games the mood would be bouyant, it's just how it works with fans, especially Town fans. We all have opinions and we all see things as we believe them to be, I just wish we would deal in facts an not manufactured scenarios that help make any side of a discussion look right.

And normal service is resumed!

[Mach_Polish_Blue]

Ive sat back for a couple of days (which is a long time for me) and read with much interest all the debate following Sundays defeat on what is wrong with the club and where the club should be heading and how this should be achieved and who is to blame for this and that, some of it I agree with and as you would expect some of it I most definitely diasgree with, a large part of me still feels like the best thing is to say sod it and stay quiet about things that really bug me, but having received plenty of positive comments, PM's etc etc maybe I would be foolish to let a couple of comments which really pissed me off big time drive me away from the only ITFC forum that I bother to post on, more importantly than that I owe it to Dave (Frosty) to continue.

Having read through everything my take on all this is as follows. I firmly believe Marko is spot on with his comment that much of this was down to derby defeat over reaction, lets be perfectly honest here we played pretty well first half and but for a bit of bad luck and woeful finishing could and probably should have been Two up at half time, the starting Eleven was pretty much what most if not all Town fans would have gone with, OK a case could be made for Celina but that aside it was the team we would have picked, I would like someone to tell me where this ridiuclous assumption came from that Didsy & Waghorn were played as wingers out wide ? They weren't at all, they were played in a 4-3-3 formation alongside Joe Garner who was through the centre, that is hardly being played out of position at all but I think it helps the argument from those who are anti MM that he is playing players out of position, it just isn't correct, they have played in a front Three numerous times, any striker will have to be able to do that, had we played 4-4-2 with Waghorn and/or Didsy out wide then fair enough but they were hardly getting chalk on their boots !! When I went down to the concourse at HT there wasn't a single negative comment from all around, in fact people were saying "we've got them this time" and "what a promising performance" etc. Nobody at that point was even suggesting we had got it wrong on the day because we had been the better side. What followed after the break was a different scenario altogether because we failed to turn up and let them have it to a degree, the one piece of real quality they showed all game resulted in a goal from the best player on the pitch and we stood off them and let them play it. After the goal we lost our way and resulted to trying to long ball it in our quest to get back into it, I agree that was disappointing and people have a right to feel let down, again though it is made to sound much worse that in really was, Bart had no other real save to make and for those who say we created nothing second half, where were you when Didsy's glancing header at 0-0 just sailed past the post ? Or when Waghorn curled his effort a couple of inches over the bar ? Or when Skuse hit his chance so tamely I could have saved it ? where was everyone ? In the toilet ? On your phone ? At the bar or just refusing to accept the fact that actually we were still in the game and creating chances ? As I said it builds up the case against the manager by creating scenarios that just aren't factual.

I've seen it said that we should be entitled to expect to be entertained with better football, have we not been by and large this season ? Again it has been inferred that we are falling back into old habits with boring, long ball hoofing, well I am fortunate in that I get to see every minute of every game live and again this is just not the case, ok we did do a fair bit of it at Sheffield Utd and in the second half against the scum, I think there was one other game at home where we saw it for a spell but again aside from that we have tried to adopt a new approach and style of play which believe it or not takes time to adjust to, I have not been bored in most of the games this season, last season was light years away from this time around.

It has been suggested that we should be brave and take a chance on a new and younger manager, Eddie Howe and David Wagner's names cropped up, two success stories who it has to be said still had mega millions to spend in comparison to us, it is ok taking a risk when you have an open cheque book but a risk in our shoes is a Two fold risk which we just cannot afford to take, Howe spent bloody loads, wagner maybe not quite so much but still way more than we ever will, for me all this talk is really on the back of a defeat to Norwich, had we won that game this forum would have had half as many posts and none alluding to the sweeping changes some are asking for. Lets look at the facts after all, should we win our game in hand we would be a single point off the top Six, at our current win rate we will win half our games this season, 70 points minimum, at present only Two teams have scored more goals despite us having played less games, yes the Six defeats in Eight is a genuine cause for concern but in two or three of those games it has not been a true reflection of how we played, Leeds being the obvious example. Does the position we currently find ourselves really deserves this level of unrest ? I find it all a bit crazy if I am being totally honest, My take on it is that we need to realise we are not that far away from where we want to be despite being on a bad run, at the very least we need to see where we are at the turn of the year and evaluate it then, if we are still dropping away then maybe some of the cause for concern is valid but its very premature right now and turning on the team at this stage is going to do exactly what it did last season and that is to make the players more nervous and it will only hinder their performances further.

I see that G&B has come in for what I consider to be some out of order grief because he dares to defend the manager, G&B is spot on with his comment that sometimes it takes an outsider to help you see and realise exactly what you have, this is why we always hear the TV pundits saying Mick is doing a fabulous job with his hands tied behind his back, why do we hear it so often ? Maybe just maybe it is the truth and reality. As has been pointed out we were so near to being a Coventry/Portsmouth/ Charlton etc and should be thankful we have had Sixteen tedious years in this league, the alternatives do not bare thinking about. I also agree we don't have to be grateful to MM for ever and a day for saving us but aside from last season we have done bloody well to finish in 6th and 7th etc, we had no right to be there at all. I firmly believe it is all about the results where 95% of Town fans are concerned, in fact Mach said it himself, boring 1-0 wins will do for him any day and had we been played off the park by Norwich and won 1-0 this would be a happy place and certainly much quieter.

So ME needs to sell up, ok do we have a list of names of people that are willing to buy 86 Million worth of debt ? It's one thing buying a Man City or a Chelsea but this is little old Ipswich, I doubt there is going to be queues of people falling over themselves to snap us up any time soon, look at Bolton they were in a bad old way and struggled to find a buyer and there are plenty of others, people say ME is not interested in ITFC as he ONLY puts in 6 or 7 Million a year, and this from some who won't invest 25 quid to go to a game to support their team they love cus times are hard for our club right now ! I am no ME lover by any stretch and if he did sell up I would not be upset at all, however it is far from being as straightforward as that when in the position we are in and I suspect he will be around for a long while yet.

So to conclude I think all this anti Mick talk again is yet another Knee jerk reaction to losing to Norwich, I do accept the current run of Six defeats in Eight needs to be addressed, I don't believe it has set the trend for the season at all. I also believe that we are trying to move forward with a plan and a direction, I know Charlton has stated that he see's no direction etc, I think we do have one, our academy is producing some great kids and they are getting game time, I also think our signings this season have been good, nearly everyone was raving about Garner, Waghorn, Adeyemi, Huws and Celina saying Mick and Marcus had done well this close season, is that different Twelve games in ? Mick is trying to accomodate them all in his line up, again the fans wanted that so when he goes with a 4-3-3 or something don't cry cus Didsy is half a yard out of position !!! Had we been offered this position at the start of the season I doubt many would have turned it down, in fact had we lost the First Four and then won the more recent games the mood would be bouyant, it's just how it works with fans, especially Town fans. We all have opinions and we all see things as we believe them to be, I just wish we would deal in facts an not manufactured scenarios that help make any side of a discussion look right.

Mike that Wolves fan comes here and tells things he has no bloody clue about. Why do we have to put the crap like we're a well run club with fabulous manager? We're a badly run club and a footballing irrelevance under Evans and his policy keeps us on the downward spiral. No hope, no drive, no determination, no direction, no chance of promotion.
We have also had some pundits saying all sorts of crap. Holloway last season for example: 'be careful what you wish for'. Or a 'pundit' in Chris Iwelumo on FL Show last season too. People who aren't connected to this football club telling us things like that. We don't need that. Just worry about your own club.

Should we really be thankful that we have had 16 seasons in this league and haven't become new Charlton/Coventry etc etc? How do you know we aren't a club like that to come? Oh yes let's be grateful for lack of ambition, stagnation etc etc. Let's not voice our feelings against Evans. Let's sit quiet, positive and take whatever we get. In fact if we hadn't had such timid fanbase things might have been changed. But no let's stay quiet and accept everything whatever the future holds, eh?

As it has been said by someone else: we can't get promoted, can't get top 6, can't win derbies, no ambitions...... WTF is a point of us?

Mike if I didn't know the result against Norwich I'd have thought it was a good afternoon according to what you post. Again a few ifs, buts, we were close etc etc...... WE LOST ! FULL STOP ! 7 meetings under McCarthy and we have never beaten them. And he'll keep pampering the players. His undroppable darlings Skuse and Chambers ever present in these matches. Can you honestly tell me you saw the passion on Sunday? That was just another game for McCarthy and these chancers in blue shirts who yap some crap in the media and don't transfer it on the pitch. He doesn't realise that this match means more to the fans than any other but this is just another game for him as I've said. 7 meetings and rarely a threat in this matches.
You claim McCarthy has had a plan B, C, D this season. Where was a plan B after Norwich scored? Notorious long balls towards their box, McCarthy chewing the gum and standing with hands in the pocket. And are you really surprised that people are annoyed? That was the same against Sheffield Utd or QPR. We struggle to get back into the game. Just keep hoofing and see what happens. And you keep telling that we're making a progress, OK that's your opinion.
That poor tame shot from Skuse towards the end of the match. Do you seriously classify it as a chance from which we could have scored? Please ! You and me would easily have saved that 'shot'.
Yes my mood would have been different if we had won 1-0 in a ugliest possible way but then again 'ifs' again. We lost and we had no ideas how to get back into the game.

And today I'm asking what's the point of going to the match at Carrow Road next February? At this moment I'm not willing to go as I unlike our manager want our team to try to win. McCarthy will play with a tight, congested middle in order to snatch a draw. Again just another game for him.

Norwich absolutely deserved to win. They have had balls to change their policy last summer, they're a forward thinking club now, not happy to just sit on arses and accept mediocre painful Championship football. We as a club make zero gambles, zero risks and number of our fans seems terrified that change is a bad thing and they'd prefer yet another 16 years or longer of the current boredom and stagnation. We're just about as pointless of a football club as you can get.

You're completely wrong Mike when saying that anti-Mick talk is yet another knee jerk reaction to losing to Norwich. And he claims he was pleased with the performance FFS ! It's not a knee jerk reaction. We can't beat them with him in charge. Different manager might have known what this match means for us. He is f**** hopeless and ignorant. Only one way to play when chasing an opponent. Never drops his favourite players. He has his sweet contract and zero pressure from Evans that's why he will keep accepting poor funding for the new players. He no longer inspires the club, team and fans.

You just also said Mike : 'I just wish we would deal in facts and not manufactured scenarios that help make any side of a discussion look right'. Everyone has an opinion and everyone thinks his/her opinion deals with facts.

If I am a negative, moaner etc etc..... so be it ! I'm just extremely bored of this club and its policy. Sick of mediocrity, lack of ambition. I'm not one of those who will be sitting quiet and accepting everything or be grateful for 16 years in this league. No way will I be positive until there are changes at the club.

IPSWICH TILL I DIE !!!

[Dubai Blue]

Glad to see you back BlueMike and wearing out your typing finger with a long one too!

I'm enjoying the debate here and the way we can fall out and come back together again under the blue flag is what makes this forum special.

Just one little point BM on your post. There is technically 87m of debt on the books but nobody needs to come up with that to buy the club. ME bought this debt at a fraction of the price and it could have been largely written off at the time if that option was chosen. The idea is that if we get promoted he is entitled to get repayment of this massive debt over some unspecified (or at least unknown to us) time which will represent a massive profit for him. But if he ever wanted to sell out before being promoted then IMO the price would be a function of what he paid, what he has invested and what he might consider an appropriate premium. The 87m is a red herring.

[Earl Blue]

Ive sat back for a couple of days (which is a long time for me) and read with much interest all the debate following Sundays defeat on what is wrong with the club and where the club should be heading and how this should be achieved and who is to blame for this and that, some of it I agree with and as you would expect some of it I most definitely diasgree with, a large part of me still feels like the best thing is to say sod it and stay quiet about things that really bug me, but having received plenty of positive comments, PM's etc etc maybe I would be foolish to let a couple of comments which really pissed me off big time drive me away from the only ITFC forum that I bother to post on, more importantly than that I owe it to Dave (Frosty) to continue.

Having read through everything my take on all this is as follows. I firmly believe Marko is spot on with his comment that much of this was down to derby defeat over reaction, lets be perfectly honest here we played pretty well first half and but for a bit of bad luck and woeful finishing could and probably should have been Two up at half time, the starting Eleven was pretty much what most if not all Town fans would have gone with, OK a case could be made for Celina but that aside it was the team we would have picked, I would like someone to tell me where this ridiuclous assumption came from that Didsy & Waghorn were played as wingers out wide ? They weren't at all, they were played in a 4-3-3 formation alongside Joe Garner who was through the centre, that is hardly being played out of position at all but I think it helps the argument from those who are anti MM that he is playing players out of position, it just isn't correct, they have played in a front Three numerous times, any striker will have to be able to do that, had we played 4-4-2 with Waghorn and/or Didsy out wide then fair enough but they were hardly getting chalk on their boots !! When I went down to the concourse at HT there wasn't a single negative comment from all around, in fact people were saying "we've got them this time" and "what a promising performance" etc. Nobody at that point was even suggesting we had got it wrong on the day because we had been the better side. What followed after the break was a different scenario altogether because we failed to turn up and let them have it to a degree, the one piece of real quality they showed all game resulted in a goal from the best player on the pitch and we stood off them and let them play it. After the goal we lost our way and resulted to trying to long ball it in our quest to get back into it, I agree that was disappointing and people have a right to feel let down, again though it is made to sound much worse that in really was, Bart had no other real save to make and for those who say we created nothing second half, where were you when Didsy's glancing header at 0-0 just sailed past the post ? Or when Waghorn curled his effort a couple of inches over the bar ? Or when Skuse hit his chance so tamely I could have saved it ? where was everyone ? In the toilet ? On your phone ? At the bar or just refusing to accept the fact that actually we were still in the game and creating chances ? As I said it builds up the case against the manager by creating scenarios that just aren't factual.

I've seen it said that we should be entitled to expect to be entertained with better football, have we not been by and large this season ? Again it has been inferred that we are falling back into old habits with boring, long ball hoofing, well I am fortunate in that I get to see every minute of every game live and again this is just not the case, ok we did do a fair bit of it at Sheffield Utd and in the second half against the scum, I think there was one other game at home where we saw it for a spell but again aside from that we have tried to adopt a new approach and style of play which believe it or not takes time to adjust to, I have not been bored in most of the games this season, last season was light years away from this time around.

It has been suggested that we should be brave and take a chance on a new and younger manager, Eddie Howe and David Wagner's names cropped up, two success stories who it has to be said still had mega millions to spend in comparison to us, it is ok taking a risk when you have an open cheque book but a risk in our shoes is a Two fold risk which we just cannot afford to take, Howe spent bloody loads, wagner maybe not quite so much but still way more than we ever will, for me all this talk is really on the back of a defeat to Norwich, had we won that game this forum would have had half as many posts and none alluding to the sweeping changes some are asking for. Lets look at the facts after all, should we win our game in hand we would be a single point off the top Six, at our current win rate we will win half our games this season, 70 points minimum, at present only Two teams have scored more goals despite us having played less games, yes the Six defeats in Eight is a genuine cause for concern but in two or three of those games it has not been a true reflection of how we played, Leeds being the obvious example. Does the position we currently find ourselves really deserves this level of unrest ? I find it all a bit crazy if I am being totally honest, My take on it is that we need to realise we are not that far away from where we want to be despite being on a bad run, at the very least we need to see where we are at the turn of the year and evaluate it then, if we are still dropping away then maybe some of the cause for concern is valid but its very premature right now and turning on the team at this stage is going to do exactly what it did last season and that is to make the players more nervous and it will only hinder their performances further.

I see that G&B has come in for what I consider to be some out of order grief because he dares to defend the manager, G&B is spot on with his comment that sometimes it takes an outsider to help you see and realise exactly what you have, this is why we always hear the TV pundits saying Mick is doing a fabulous job with his hands tied behind his back, why do we hear it so often ? Maybe just maybe it is the truth and reality. As has been pointed out we were so near to being a Coventry/Portsmouth/ Charlton etc and should be thankful we have had Sixteen tedious years in this league, the alternatives do not bare thinking about. I also agree we don't have to be grateful to MM for ever and a day for saving us but aside from last season we have done bloody well to finish in 6th and 7th etc, we had no right to be there at all. I firmly believe it is all about the results where 95% of Town fans are concerned, in fact Mach said it himself, boring 1-0 wins will do for him any day and had we been played off the park by Norwich and won 1-0 this would be a happy place and certainly much quieter.

So ME needs to sell up, ok do we have a list of names of people that are willing to buy 86 Million worth of debt ? It's one thing buying a Man City or a Chelsea but this is little old Ipswich, I doubt there is going to be queues of people falling over themselves to snap us up any time soon, look at Bolton they were in a bad old way and struggled to find a buyer and there are plenty of others, people say ME is not interested in ITFC as he ONLY puts in 6 or 7 Million a year, and this from some who won't invest 25 quid to go to a game to support their team they love cus times are hard for our club right now ! I am no ME lover by any stretch and if he did sell up I would not be upset at all, however it is far from being as straightforward as that when in the position we are in and I suspect he will be around for a long while yet.

So to conclude I think all this anti Mick talk again is yet another Knee jerk reaction to losing to Norwich, I do accept the current run of Six defeats in Eight needs to be addressed, I don't believe it has set the trend for the season at all. I also believe that we are trying to move forward with a plan and a direction, I know Charlton has stated that he see's no direction etc, I think we do have one, our academy is producing some great kids and they are getting game time, I also think our signings this season have been good, nearly everyone was raving about Garner, Waghorn, Adeyemi, Huws and Celina saying Mick and Marcus had done well this close season, is that different Twelve games in ? Mick is trying to accomodate them all in his line up, again the fans wanted that so when he goes with a 4-3-3 or something don't cry cus Didsy is half a yard out of position !!! Had we been offered this position at the start of the season I doubt many would have turned it down, in fact had we lost the First Four and then won the more recent games the mood would be bouyant, it's just how it works with fans, especially Town fans. We all have opinions and we all see things as we believe them to be, I just wish we would deal in facts an not manufactured scenarios that help make any side of a discussion look right.

Mike that Wolves fan comes here and tells things he has no bloody clue about. Why do we have to put the crap like we're a well run club with fabulous manager? We're a badly run club and a footballing irrelevance under Evans and his policy keeps us on the downward spiral. No hope, no drive, no determination, no direction, no chance of promotion.
We have also had some pundits saying all sorts of crap. Holloway last season for example: 'be careful what you wish for'. Or a 'pundit' in Chris Iwelumo on FL Show last season too. People who aren't connected to this football club telling us things like that. We don't need that. Just worry about your own club.

Should we really be thankful that we have had 16 seasons in this league and haven't become new Charlton/Coventry etc etc? How do you know we aren't a club like that to come? Oh yes let's be grateful for lack of ambition, stagnation etc etc. Let's not voice our feelings against Evans. Let's sit quiet, positive and take whatever we get. In fact if we hadn't had such timid fanbase things might have been changed. But no let's stay quiet and accept everything whatever the future holds, eh?

As it has been said by someone else: we can't get promoted, can't get top 6, can't win derbies, no ambitions...... WTF is a point of us?

Mike if I didn't know the result against Norwich I'd have thought it was a good afternoon according to what you post. Again a few ifs, buts, we were close etc etc...... WE LOST ! FULL STOP ! 7 meetings under McCarthy and we have never beaten them. And he'll keep pampering the players. His undroppable darlings Skuse and Chambers ever present in these matches. Can you honestly tell me you saw the passion on Sunday? That was just another game for McCarthy and these chancers in blue shirts who yap some crap in the media and don't transfer it on the pitch. He doesn't realise that this match means more to the fans than any other but this is just another game for him as I've said. 7 meetings and rarely a threat in this matches.
You claim McCarthy has had a plan B, C, D this season. Where was a plan B after Norwich scored? Notorious long balls towards their box, McCarthy chewing the gum and standing with hands in the pocket. And are you really surprised that people are annoyed? That was the same against Sheffield Utd or QPR. We struggle to get back into the game. Just keep hoofing and see what happens. And you keep telling that we're making a progress, OK that's your opinion.
That poor tame shot from Skuse towards the end of the match. Do you seriously classify it as a chance from which we could have scored? Please ! You and me would easily have saved that 'shot'.
Yes my mood would have been different if we had won 1-0 in a ugliest possible way but then again 'ifs' again. We lost and we had no ideas how to get back into the game.

And today I'm asking what's the point of going to the match at Carrow Road next February? At this moment I'm not willing to go as I unlike our manager want our team to try to win. McCarthy will play with a tight, congested middle in order to snatch a draw. Again just another game for him.

Norwich absolutely deserved to win. They have had balls to change their policy last summer, they're a forward thinking club now, not happy to just sit on arses and accept mediocre painful Championship football. We as a club make zero gambles, zero risks and number of our fans seems terrified that change is a bad thing and they'd prefer yet another 16 years or longer of the current boredom and stagnation. We're just about as pointless of a football club as you can get.

You're completely wrong Mike when saying that anti-Mick talk is yet another knee jerk reaction to losing to Norwich. And he claims he was pleased with the performance FFS ! It's not a knee jerk reaction. We can't beat them with him in charge. Different manager might have known what this match means for us. He is f**** hopeless and ignorant. Only one way to play when chasing an opponent. Never drops his favourite players. He has his sweet contract and zero pressure from Evans that's why he will keep accepting poor funding for the new players. He no longer inspires the club, team and fans.

You just also said Mike : 'I just wish we would deal in facts an not manufactured scenarios that help make any side of a discussion look right'. Everyone has an opinion and everyone thinks his/her opinion deals with facts.

If I am a negative, moaner etc etc..... so be it ! I'm just extremely bored of this club and it's policy. Sick of mediocrity, lack of ambition. I'm not one of those who will be sitting quiet and accepting everything or be grateful for 16 years in this league. No way will I be positive until there are changes at the club.

IPSWICH TILL I DIE !!!

I find it hard to argue with any of that MPB..

Well put..

[barmy billy]

Ive sat back for a couple of days (which is a long time for me) and read with much interest all the debate following Sundays defeat on what is wrong with the club and where the club should be heading and how this should be achieved and who is to blame for this and that, some of it I agree with and as you would expect some of it I most definitely diasgree with, a large part of me still feels like the best thing is to say sod it and stay quiet about things that really bug me, but having received plenty of positive comments, PM's etc etc maybe I would be foolish to let a couple of comments which really pissed me off big time drive me away from the only ITFC forum that I bother to post on, more importantly than that I owe it to Dave (Frosty) to continue.

Having read through everything my take on all this is as follows. I firmly believe Marko is spot on with his comment that much of this was down to derby defeat over reaction, lets be perfectly honest here we played pretty well first half and but for a bit of bad luck and woeful finishing could and probably should have been Two up at half time, the starting Eleven was pretty much what most if not all Town fans would have gone with, OK a case could be made for Celina but that aside it was the team we would have picked, I would like someone to tell me where this ridiuclous assumption came from that Didsy & Waghorn were played as wingers out wide ? They weren't at all, they were played in a 4-3-3 formation alongside Joe Garner who was through the centre, that is hardly being played out of position at all but I think it helps the argument from those who are anti MM that he is playing players out of position, it just isn't correct, they have played in a front Three numerous times, any striker will have to be able to do that, had we played 4-4-2 with Waghorn and/or Didsy out wide then fair enough but they were hardly getting chalk on their boots !! When I went down to the concourse at HT there wasn't a single negative comment from all around, in fact people were saying "we've got them this time" and "what a promising performance" etc. Nobody at that point was even suggesting we had got it wrong on the day because we had been the better side. What followed after the break was a different scenario altogether because we failed to turn up and let them have it to a degree, the one piece of real quality they showed all game resulted in a goal from the best player on the pitch and we stood off them and let them play it. After the goal we lost our way and resulted to trying to long ball it in our quest to get back into it, I agree that was disappointing and people have a right to feel let down, again though it is made to sound much worse that in really was, Bart had no other real save to make and for those who say we created nothing second half, where were you when Didsy's glancing header at 0-0 just sailed past the post ? Or when Waghorn curled his effort a couple of inches over the bar ? Or when Skuse hit his chance so tamely I could have saved it ? where was everyone ? In the toilet ? On your phone ? At the bar or just refusing to accept the fact that actually we were still in the game and creating chances ? As I said it builds up the case against the manager by creating scenarios that just aren't factual.

I've seen it said that we should be entitled to expect to be entertained with better football, have we not been by and large this season ? Again it has been inferred that we are falling back into old habits with boring, long ball hoofing, well I am fortunate in that I get to see every minute of every game live and again this is just not the case, ok we did do a fair bit of it at Sheffield Utd and in the second half against the scum, I think there was one other game at home where we saw it for a spell but again aside from that we have tried to adopt a new approach and style of play which believe it or not takes time to adjust to, I have not been bored in most of the games this season, last season was light years away from this time around.

It has been suggested that we should be brave and take a chance on a new and younger manager, Eddie Howe and David Wagner's names cropped up, two success stories who it has to be said still had mega millions to spend in comparison to us, it is ok taking a risk when you have an open cheque book but a risk in our shoes is a Two fold risk which we just cannot afford to take, Howe spent bloody loads, wagner maybe not quite so much but still way more than we ever will, for me all this talk is really on the back of a defeat to Norwich, had we won that game this forum would have had half as many posts and none alluding to the sweeping changes some are asking for. Lets look at the facts after all, should we win our game in hand we would be a single point off the top Six, at our current win rate we will win half our games this season, 70 points minimum, at present only Two teams have scored more goals despite us having played less games, yes the Six defeats in Eight is a genuine cause for concern but in two or three of those games it has not been a true reflection of how we played, Leeds being the obvious example. Does the position we currently find ourselves really deserves this level of unrest ? I find it all a bit crazy if I am being totally honest, My take on it is that we need to realise we are not that far away from where we want to be despite being on a bad run, at the very least we need to see where we are at the turn of the year and evaluate it then, if we are still dropping away then maybe some of the cause for concern is valid but its very premature right now and turning on the team at this stage is going to do exactly what it did last season and that is to make the players more nervous and it will only hinder their performances further.

I see that G&B has come in for what I consider to be some out of order grief because he dares to defend the manager, G&B is spot on with his comment that sometimes it takes an outsider to help you see and realise exactly what you have, this is why we always hear the TV pundits saying Mick is doing a fabulous job with his hands tied behind his back, why do we hear it so often ? Maybe just maybe it is the truth and reality. As has been pointed out we were so near to being a Coventry/Portsmouth/ Charlton etc and should be thankful we have had Sixteen tedious years in this league, the alternatives do not bare thinking about. I also agree we don't have to be grateful to MM for ever and a day for saving us but aside from last season we have done bloody well to finish in 6th and 7th etc, we had no right to be there at all. I firmly believe it is all about the results where 95% of Town fans are concerned, in fact Mach said it himself, boring 1-0 wins will do for him any day and had we been played off the park by Norwich and won 1-0 this would be a happy place and certainly much quieter.

So ME needs to sell up, ok do we have a list of names of people that are willing to buy 86 Million worth of debt ? It's one thing buying a Man City or a Chelsea but this is little old Ipswich, I doubt there is going to be queues of people falling over themselves to snap us up any time soon, look at Bolton they were in a bad old way and struggled to find a buyer and there are plenty of others, people say ME is not interested in ITFC as he ONLY puts in 6 or 7 Million a year, and this from some who won't invest 25 quid to go to a game to support their team they love cus times are hard for our club right now ! I am no ME lover by any stretch and if he did sell up I would not be upset at all, however it is far from being as straightforward as that when in the position we are in and I suspect he will be around for a long while yet.

So to conclude I think all this anti Mick talk again is yet another Knee jerk reaction to losing to Norwich, I do accept the current run of Six defeats in Eight needs to be addressed, I don't believe it has set the trend for the season at all. I also believe that we are trying to move forward with a plan and a direction, I know Charlton has stated that he see's no direction etc, I think we do have one, our academy is producing some great kids and they are getting game time, I also think our signings this season have been good, nearly everyone was raving about Garner, Waghorn, Adeyemi, Huws and Celina saying Mick and Marcus had done well this close season, is that different Twelve games in ? Mick is trying to accomodate them all in his line up, again the fans wanted that so when he goes with a 4-3-3 or something don't cry cus Didsy is half a yard out of position !!! Had we been offered this position at the start of the season I doubt many would have turned it down, in fact had we lost the First Four and then won the more recent games the mood would be bouyant, it's just how it works with fans, especially Town fans. We all have opinions and we all see things as we believe them to be, I just wish we would deal in facts an not manufactured scenarios that help make any side of a discussion look right.

Mike that Wolves fan comes here and tells things he has no bloody clue about. Why do we have to put the crap like we're a well run club with fabulous manager? We're a badly run club and a footballing irrelevance under Evans and his policy keeps us on the downward spiral. No hope, no drive, no determination, no direction, no chance of promotion.
We have also had some pundits saying all sorts of crap. Holloway last season for example: 'be careful what you wish for'. Or a 'pundit' in Chris Iwelumo on FL Show last season too. People who aren't connected to this football club telling us things like that. We don't need that. Just worry about your own club.

Should we really be thankful that we have had 16 seasons in this league and haven't become new Charlton/Coventry etc etc? How do you know we aren't a club like that to come? Oh yes let's be grateful for lack of ambition, stagnation etc etc. Let's not voice our feelings against Evans. Let's sit quiet, positive and take whatever we get. In fact if we hadn't had such timid fanbase things might have been changed. But no let's stay quiet and accept everything whatever the future holds, eh?

As it has been said by someone else: we can't get promoted, can't get top 6, can't win derbies, no ambitions...... WTF is a point of us?

Mike if I didn't know the result against Norwich I'd have thought it was a good afternoon according to what you post. Again a few ifs, buts, we were close etc etc...... WE LOST ! FULL STOP ! 7 meetings under McCarthy and we have never beaten them. And he'll keep pampering the players. His undroppable darlings Skuse and Chambers ever present in these matches. Can you honestly tell me you saw the passion on Sunday? That was just another game for McCarthy and these chancers in blue shirts who yap some crap in the media and don't transfer it on the pitch. He doesn't realise that this match means more to the fans than any other but this is just another game for him as I've said. 7 meetings and rarely a threat in this matches.
You claim McCarthy has had a plan B, C, D this season. Where was a plan B after Norwich scored? Notorious long balls towards their box, McCarthy chewing the gum and standing with hands in the pocket. And are you really surprised that people are annoyed? That was the same against Sheffield Utd or QPR. We struggle to get back into the game. Just keep hoofing and see what happens. And you keep telling that we're making a progress, OK that's your opinion.
That poor tame shot from Skuse towards the end of the match. Do you seriously classify it as a chance from which we could have scored? Please ! You and me would easily have saved that 'shot'.
Yes my mood would have been different if we had won 1-0 in a ugliest possible way but then again 'ifs' again. We lost and we had no ideas how to get back into the game.

And today I'm asking what's the point of going to the match at Carrow Road next February? At this moment I'm not willing to go as I unlike our manager want our team to try to win. McCarthy will play with a tight, congested middle in order to snatch a draw. Again just another game for him.

Norwich absolutely deserved to win. They have had balls to change their policy last summer, they're a forward thinking club now, not happy to just sit on arses and accept mediocre painful Championship football. We as a club make zero gambles, zero risks and number of our fans seems terrified that change is a bad thing and they'd prefer yet another 16 years or longer of the current boredom and stagnation. We're just about as pointless of a football club as you can get.

You're completely wrong Mike when saying that anti-Mick talk is yet another knee jerk reaction to losing to Norwich. And he claims he was pleased with the performance FFS ! It's not a knee jerk reaction. We can't beat them with him in charge. Different manager might have known what this match means for us. He is f**** hopeless and ignorant. Only one way to play when chasing an opponent. Never drops his favourite players. He has his sweet contract and zero pressure from Evans that's why he will keep accepting poor funding for the new players. He no longer inspires the club, team and fans.

You just also said Mike : 'I just wish we would deal in facts an not manufactured scenarios that help make any side of a discussion look right'. Everyone has an opinion and everyone thinks his/her opinion deals with facts.

If I am a negative, moaner etc etc..... so be it ! I'm just extremely bored of this club and it's policy. Sick of mediocrity, lack of ambition. I'm not one of those who will be sitting quiet and accepting everything or be grateful for 16 years in this league. No way will I be positive until there are changes at the club.

IPSWICH TILL I DIE !!!

I find it hard to argue with any of that MPB..

Well put..

You speak for an awful lot of us MPB.

[Bluemike]

Aside from the points you make which if I get a chance to I will reply to I find some of you pretty disrespectful to John (G&B) if I am honest, it matters not what team he supports, he contributes to the forum and has Ipswich at heart by the way, should you have met him Mach you would feel completely differently and by others agreeing with everything you say they too are just as bad. Actually I won't reply Mach cus we have these discussions on numerous occasions when we meet up but one thing I will ask is this, if you feel so against everything ITFC right now and you know it isn't going to change any time soon why bother ? It is a serious question by the way and I guess I know the answer, Ipswich till I die and all that. The fact is ME and MM are here at the moment, you either suffer it or not, no amount of anti talk from all of us is going to change it, that is the stark reality, just because I say that does not mean I agree with it or indeed like it, I actually don't, but it is reality.

[Dubai Blue]

Well that's the main thing isn't it. To have an active and passionate debate but still respect the opposition's right to their view. (Sorry Rossi, I think I nicked that off you).

[barmy billy]

Aside from the points you make which if I get a chance to I will reply to I find some of you pretty disrespectful to John (G&B) if I am honest, it matters not what team he supports, he contributes to the forum and has Ipswich at heart by the way, should you have met him Mach you would feel completely differently and by others agreeing with everything you say they too are just as bad. Actually I won't reply Mach cus we have these discussions on numerous occasions when we meet up but one thing I will ask is this, if you feel so against everything ITFC right now and you know it isn't going to change any time soon why bother ? It is a serious question by the way and I guess I know the answer, Ipswich till I die and all that. The fact is ME and MM are here at the moment, you either suffer it or not, no amount of anti talk from all of us is going to change it, that is the stark reality, just because I say that does not mean I agree with it or indeed like it, I actually don't, but it is reality.

So we just shut up and put up with all that ITFC has to offer at present? It's what I said previously, it's your way or no way? Why can't those who disagree with you have their say without feeling intimidated, because that's how it comes across. For goodness sake just accept that other people's opinions differ from yours without always pushing your point to the extreme? Some of us think differently to you: learn to live with it.

[Bluemike]

Aside from the points you make which if I get a chance to I will reply to I find some of you pretty disrespectful to John (G&B) if I am honest, it matters not what team he supports, he contributes to the forum and has Ipswich at heart by the way, should you have met him Mach you would feel completely differently and by others agreeing with everything you say they too are just as bad. Actually I won't reply Mach cus we have these discussions on numerous occasions when we meet up but one thing I will ask is this, if you feel so against everything ITFC right now and you know it isn't going to change any time soon why bother ? It is a serious question by the way and I guess I know the answer, Ipswich till I die and all that. The fact is ME and MM are here at the moment, you either suffer it or not, no amount of anti talk from all of us is going to change it, that is the stark reality, just because I say that does not mean I agree with it or indeed like it, I actually don't, but it is reality.

So we just shut up and put up with all that ITFC has to offer at present? It's what I said previously, it's your way or no way? Why can't those who disagree with you have their say without feeling intimidated, because that's how it comes across. For goodness sake just accept that other people's opinions differ from yours without always pushing your point to the extreme? Some of us think differently to you: learn to live with it.

Why do you talk such f**king rubbish, you use the intimidated card so often, your such a bloody wimp, where have i said you have to accept it ? And where have i intimidated you you poor fragile thing !!! Grow a pair FFS. How is it my way or no way ? I could say the same about you whingers, you hate the bloody fact some still actually support their club...tough sh*t pal.

[barmy billy]

Aside from the points you make which if I get a chance to I will reply to I find some of you pretty disrespectful to John (G&B) if I am honest, it matters not what team he supports, he contributes to the forum and has Ipswich at heart by the way, should you have met him Mach you would feel completely differently and by others agreeing with everything you say they too are just as bad. Actually I won't reply Mach cus we have these discussions on numerous occasions when we meet up but one thing I will ask is this, if you feel so against everything ITFC right now and you know it isn't going to change any time soon why bother ? It is a serious question by the way and I guess I know the answer, Ipswich till I die and all that. The fact is ME and MM are here at the moment, you either suffer it or not, no amount of anti talk from all of us is going to change it, that is the stark reality, just because I say that does not mean I agree with it or indeed like it, I actually don't, but it is reality.

So we just shut up and put up with all that ITFC has to offer at present? It's what I said previously, it's your way or no way? Why can't those who disagree with you have their say without feeling intimidated, because that's how it comes across. For goodness sake just accept that other people's opinions differ from yours without always pushing your point to the extreme? Some of us think differently to you: learn to live with it.

Why do you talk such f**king rubbish, you use the intimidated card so often, your such a bloody wimp, where have i said you have to accept it ? And where have i intimidated you you poor fragile thing !!! Grow a pair FFS. How is it my way or no way ? I could say the same about you whingers, you hate the bloody fact some still actually support their club...tough sh*t pal.

You have just proved everything I think.

I have tolerated your aggressive, intimidatory attitude for years on this forum. You are a self-centred, aggressive person intolerant of the opinions of those who don't agree with you. You act as though this forum is in debt to you for your profound, know-all superior opinions. You are no different or better than the rest of us chum and the sooner you accept that the better. This forum is for all fans, not just the know it all, grandiose Bluemike. I will continue to express my views, irrespective of your put downs.

I have to grow a pair! You need to learn some manners and respect other peoples views.

[Ricco]

I don't post on here often these days, but I do read, and feel I need to say how much I appreciate G&B and Bluemike's posts, as I'm sure many like myself who don't get involved every day, do. Much in the same vein as Marko, G&B has an outsiders view on it all, his and Marko's posts always offer fresh opinion, and considering the history of McCarthy at Wolves and the length of time (sorry G&B) he's cast an eye over town, his opinion is extremely valid and I hope he keeps sharing it.

Love it or hate it, without Bluemike this forum could well descend in to the depths of negativity and unbridled emotion. He doesn't scream when we're winning, he doesn't cry when we're losing, he offers an honest, balanced and rational assessment of the games and the club as a whole. Doesn't mean we should agree with what he each other has to say, but I think he should be free to offer his opinion, you don't have to read it.

Basically play nice everyone, I hardly contribute now, pretty much because I simply couldn't be arsed to deal with one member who would jump on any post he didn't agree with and make snide remarks all day long. What I'm trying to say without sounding like a right knobber (probably failed royaly), is that I don't want that to happen to anyone else (on either side of any argument), just hear each other out without whining about each other, we're all here for the same thing, to read and talk about the club we love and want to see succeed.

[marko69]

Good to see you, AWWWW RICCO! (always sing Peter Gabriels "BIKO" when I see your name)

Snide remarks all day long?

Ok, if it was a hangman game, ……, would it be H--B--OR-?

[Mach_Polish_Blue]

Aside from the points you make which if I get a chance to I will reply to I find some of you pretty disrespectful to John (G&B) if I am honest, it matters not what team he supports, he contributes to the forum and has Ipswich at heart by the way, should you have met him Mach you would feel completely differently and by others agreeing with everything you say they too are just as bad. Actually I won't reply Mach cus we have these discussions on numerous occasions when we meet up but one thing I will ask is this, if you feel so against everything ITFC right now and you know it isn't going to change any time soon why bother ? It is a serious question by the way and I guess I know the answer, Ipswich till I die and all that. The fact is ME and MM are here at the moment, you either suffer it or not, no amount of anti talk from all of us is going to change it, that is the stark reality, just because I say that does not mean I agree with it or indeed like it, I actually don't, but it is reality.

Mike

You defend that Wolves fan because he says things you want to hear. No word of criticism re Ipswich. Everything seems to be rosy. Please be aware that not everyone has to accept that. His words re how our club is 'well run' should be directed to all those extra 10 000 Town fans who were at Portman Road last Sunday and won't be coming back quickly. Wonder what answer he is going to get from them.

You find me disrespectful to him. By how? By not agreeing with that utter bull he is saying that our club is well run? I find his comment as disrespectful to me and all those Ipswich fans who are fed up and bored with the club's policy and lack of ambition to make us better. I along number of Ipswich fans want my club back. But hey no problem I'll let him contribute as he says what some people want to hear.

You're asking me why I bother then? Why are you asking that kind of question? Because I'm not positive? Does it mean I have to sit quiet and accept everything?

You claim that no amount of anti talk from us is going to change the reality. Correct ! But no amount of your 'positive' talk is going convince some people that there are plenty positives at the club these days. We're a rudderless ship under Evans and McCarthy. Sorry that's my opinion. You have a different one, fine.
Look at your report from the Norwich match. Plenty of 'positives' as ever from you whereas it wasn't a good afternoon at all for us. Poor, forgettable afternoon in fact.

Why can't I voice my displeasure? Why can't I voice my concerns? And when I moan I don't do this for the sake of it. I have genuine reasons to do so. I want my club back, sick of this mediocrity so does it make me a whinger or a bad fan? If not on the Ipswich forum where am I supposed to be 'moaning' then?

[Bluemike]

Mach, of course you can voice your displeasure, like you disagree with my thoughts i disagree with yours at times but we know each other well enough that we never fall out and laugh about it when we meet. I was positive about the 1st half against Norwich cus there was reason to be surely ? I also said the 2nd half wad disappointing etc ?

I just felt the way you were talking to G&B was a bit OTT, a bit like me with Billy I guess, emotions running high,

BILLY I APPOLOGISE!!!!!! But please intimidating , me ? Seriously ? I will try to come across less so if thats the case.

RICCO !!! Welcome back and thanks for the kind words !! Get posting more !!

[number 9]

I really think it’s time for a group hug, now! I’m not taking the p*ss...just wanted to point out what a great advertisement this thread has been for passionate fans. At the end of day we all want ITFC to be successful! COYB!

[Bluemike]

I actually cant sleep cus of this.....no lie

[Ricco]

Snide remarks all day long?

Ok, if it was a hangman game, ……, would it be H--B--OR-?

I actually got on alright with H--B--OR- strangely (if I remember right) I seem to very much be in a tiny minority!!

RICCO !!! Welcome back and thanks for the kind words !! Get posting more !!

Yes I think I should

[barmy billy]

I actually cant sleep cus of this.....no lie

Neither can I.

I also apologize and I'm certainly up for a group hug.

What a cunch of bunts we all are.

[charlton837]

in a weird way I would say this thread is the most passionate for a long time! Yes it shows fairly big division lines, but passion nonetheless.

Mach - I really like your posts by the way regarding the club, I think you talk a lot of what im thinking at the moment. I try not to be too high after a win or too low after a loss, it helps to be quite level headed and realistic, I really don't like to change opinion on a whim but I am at the point I want something done at the club now, I don't think enough are at that point though to force anything. I do understand what you say about G&B but my opinion on that is he does contribute and I don't have a problem with him, I don't agree with his view of ITFC but it is an outside view, sometimes that can be helpful of course.

anyway whens the TB.com Christmas party this year , a lot of people owe each other a pint....

[Frosty]

funnily enough, I was thinking the same thing mate, as long as things don't go completely south, it has been one of the best threads in ages.

[Frosty]

I actually cant sleep cus of this.....no lie

Neither can I.

I also apologize and I'm certainly up for a group hug.

What a cunch of bunts we all are.

well played BB

[rossi]

Mach, of course you can voice your displeasure, like you disagree with my thoughts i disagree with yours at times but we know each other well enough that we never fall out and laugh about it when we meet. I was positive about the 1st half against Norwich cus there was reason to be surely ? I also said the 2nd half wad disappointing etc ?

I just felt the way you were talking to G&B was a bit OTT, a bit like me with Billy I guess, emotions running high,

BILLY I APPOLOGISE!!!!!! But please intimidating , me ? Seriously ? I will try to come across less so if thats the case.

RICCO !!! Welcome back and thanks for the kind words !! Get posting more !!

You, Mike, intimidating?

nah - surely not - your just a big pussycat (though maybe an intimidating pussycat )

[Bluemike]

And you've met me several times.......MEOW

[number 9]

Tales from the darkside:

http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com ... e-says-it/

....I'm really not trying to stir the pot!

[charlton837]

Tales from the darkside:

http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com ... e-says-it/

....I'm really not trying to stir the pot!

I want to say what a bunch of w*nkers but I agree with quite a bit of it....

[number 9]

Tales from the darkside:

http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com ... e-says-it/

....I'm really not trying to stir the pot!

I want to say what a bunch of w*nkers but I agree with quite a bit of it....

Yeah I agree with some of it too, Charlton.

[Charnwood]

Nice one boys, I think after losing to those tossers at the weekend the last thing we need is to all fall out over/after it. This is just the time when we all need to stick together even tho it hurts after so many years without a win against them. Of course we will never all see it the same, if we did they'd be no point having a discussion and the forum wouldn't exist. What we should do however is be more respectful of one another's views and in the main this happens, I think what happened this weekend is a reflection of the pain we all suffered following a defeat that we all hoped and prayed wouldn't happen. I must admit when I saw our 4-3-3 line up with Waghorn Garner and McGoldrick all starting I thought we would really have a go at them, and to some extent we did at the start but it fizzled out far too quickly, and from half time onwards it was clear only one team was likely to win.

Looking at the heading I can fully understand why supporters get frustrated and to be honest it shouldn't be difficult to see why this has happened. That said I don't agree it's been continuous decline, if it was we'd now be in our worst shape for the past 10 years and clearly this isn't the case.

However what is the case is that our current owner appears to be happy owning a football club playing at the current level and shows few signs of changing this. I know he's put £100m of his own money into funding the club but I'm sure I read somewhere that he charges the club something like 5.4% annual interest on the debt ?.... if this is the case I question whether or not this is the sort of owner we want as most billionaire owners right debts off and invest in the team until they achieve their goal, as was the case at Leicester City where the owner has had a excellent return on his investment which shows it can be done.

In my opinion Mick McCarthy isn't the problem, the problem lies with our ownership and whilst we have to be grateful to Mr Evans for saving our club he isn't the person who will take our club to the Premier League, it can never happen with such meagre investment. He is clearly using his extreme wealth to fund a hobby which he obviously enjoys and in addition to his healthy 5.4% return on capital I expect his accountants also achieve some healthy tax breaks along the way.

It's all very well for us to say we need new ownership but I don't imagine there's a queue of prospective buyers sitting in the wings waiting to takeover, and it would be a huge challenge to find a buyer with pockets deep enough to take us to the promised land. This leaves us as supporters with choices. We either continue to support and get behind the club we love, (and that's what happens to those of us "born blue") in hope that things will change sometime in the future, or we walk away because quite frankly we're not in control and neither is Mick McCarthy who is probably quite happy lining his pockets with Mr Evans money, cos quite frankly he's probably not good enough to earn a better pay day elsewhere.

We also need to remind ourselves there are far worse owners than Marcus Evans around, because one thing for sure I don't see him as a man who will accept watching the club be relegated, if he was we wouldn't have seen the summer additions to the squad like Waghorn, Garner, Huws etc.

I think we also need to be careful what we wish for with regard to the manager, as it takes great experience to do as well as we do with such limited resources, with which I think McCarthy does a reasonable job. I also don't buy this 'setting up not to lose crap", fior f*ck sake, we've not drawn a single League game in the last 20 played, our last draw was at Birmingham City on 1 April !

In summary, we probably should be more patient and grateful that we have a football team playing in the second tier of English football which is still a high standard. In my opinion the top level of the Championship has closed the gap on the bottom half of the Premier League in recent years, which is why last years promoted teams are doing so much better. Unless a mega billionaire owner comes along and bank rolls us which is highly unlikely, we are at the very least in fairly safe hands and if we can continue to develop decent home grown talent and blend this with some experience we can always live in hope that the good days will someday return.

Yes, chaps & chapesses, maybe we should be a little more patient and enjoy what we have for what it is.

Apologies in advance for writing this a tiny bit pissed !

[Bluemike]

Absolutely spot on in my opinion Andy, get pissed more often lol

[Ricco]

Hear, hear, great post Charnwood.

You may be right about this season, we seemingly have been less 'set up to not lose', but we were still the divisions leading drawers last year, and I think one reason has been our injury problems in defence have meant the team have had to go out and score goals? I can see the team reverting to negativity, but for now I am more positive than I have been, I think the squad is in good shape, I don't know who to praise for that, owner, manager, scouts??

[Frosty]

nice post Andy