Do We Fans Expect Too Much?

[barmy billy]

Now that the end of the season is drawing near, I can't help but reflect on the things so far and also think of what lies ahead. Looking back, we have achieved very little of note. Yes, there has been the usual turnround of players and it can be argued that McCarthy has improved his squad, although our league position has changed little. McCarthy has certainly alienated himself with fans and even when he gets things right he gets little praise. I don't like the man and sincerely hope he will soon be gone.

As to the future, goodness only knows what will happen. Our reclusive owner does himself no favours by the way appears to treat fans with contempt and quite rightly I feel fully deserves the criticism he receives. But can he take the club forward? I don't pretend to understand the intricacies of his business empire, but he is clearly a very wealthy man who continues to put a lot of money into the Club. The question is though, can he afford to put even more in? I think it is worth remembering that he is a millionaire, but not a billionaire and a lot of the money that is poured into other clubs often comes from consortia involving many millionaires or alternatively single billionaire owners. They also buy into clubs that have the valuable asset of the own ground, which we of course don't.

As I have suggested, Evans must have his breaking point and I wonder what that is. Fans are continually demanding more from him, but I can't help wondering if we are asking for and expecting too much. Perhaps, despite his peculiar ways, we should be grateful that we have him. Food for thought.

[arana peligrosa]

Said it before and will again, haven't enjoyed being a regular follower of the club since Joe Royle was in position. You're going back to say 2003 - 2005 and the subsequent names i.e. Magilton, Jewell, Keane and McCarthy himself haven't attracted or providing anything near the expectation of the previous time. Marcus Evans has been owner for the majority of the time in question but no need to elaborate on the individual, his lack of involvement and action is abundantly clear to all fans involved.

Do I expect too much ? No not really. It was an honor to be part of (and associated with) a team that for a time was one of the best in Europe and challenging for the title of Champions of England in the late 70's, early 1980's, and realize that was then and this is now. No Ipswich Town squad in my lifetime will ever again win the top league. The FA Cup is possible, but not with the goddamn manager and owner we still possess.

Some argue we're fortunate to have McCarthy and he has stabilized the club and prevented any real relegation concerns. Other side of the coin being we're highly unlikely to ever make it back to the EPL while the individual remains in position. Mundane safety first procedures may get you a result you require, but for the most part it's progress at a snails pace. As for the future, it's something you can't forecast. Hopefully with both owner and manager out of sight sometime soon, but can't see Evans at least making way. Made a home for himself here, it's not as if he's ever declared "people want rid, I need to find another team to ruin - sorry - take ownership of"

[herforder]

I think every supporter has his or her unique expectation level, in terms of what’s achieved on the pitch. I think it’s also true that the club’s history, length of time supporting, personal disappointment and tolerance thresholds, all play a part in pegging today’s expectation levels. Possibly the more someone has experienced over the years - the extreme highs/depressing lows - the more stoic and tolerant they may be. Support for the Club far outweighs supporting any particular owner or manager - who are merely it’s temporary servants, and will eventually be gone.

But whilst purely footballing expectations might vary, those relating to the manner in which the Club views and treats it’s life-blood supporters (not customers) should be non-negotiable: our expectation to belong to a club that truly understands and values us, that seeks to nurture the next generation of supporters; respects our history whilst doing is utmost to ensuring and enhancing its future through effective and honest communication. That’s surely not too much to understand, or difficult to achieve. Convincing supporters that we belong to the same Club as those who own or manage it might have a positive impact on our footballing expectations. The whole thing should be joined up - at present it most certainly ain’t.

[Bluemike]

One thing Billy, I read an article some time back where it is in fact suggested that Marcus Evans IS a Billionaire, when they print these rich lists his wealth is always one of the biggest mysteries of them all. Apparently he once tried to buy the Mirror group or something for around 600 Million if I remember rightly.

[barmy billy]

I think every supporter has his or her unique expectation level, in terms of what’s achieved on the pitch. I think it’s also true that the club’s history, length of time supporting, personal disappointment and tolerance thresholds, all play a part in pegging today’s expectation levels. Possibly the more someone has experienced over the years - the extreme highs/depressing lows - the more stoic and tolerant they may be. Support for the Club far outweighs supporting any particular owner or manager - who are merely it’s temporary servants, and will eventually be gone.

But whilst purely footballing expectations might vary, those relating to the manner in which the Club views and treats it’s life-blood supporters (not customers) should be non-negotiable: our expectation to belong to a club that truly understands and values us, that seeks to nurture the next generation of supporters; respects our history whilst doing is utmost to ensuring and enhancing its future through effective and honest communication. That’s surely not too much to understand, or difficult to achieve. Convincing supporters that we belong to the same Club as those who own or manage it might have a positive impact on our footballing expectations. The whole thing should be joined up - at present it most certainly ain’t.

Aside from an apparent personality disorder, are you saying that you think Evans is capable of and should be investing more than he currently does?

[herforder]

No doubt owning a football club is a money pit - as Delia discovered. Although ME’s ‘on paper’ wealth is huge, I don’t really understand how that gets turned into hard cash - unless it comes from money generated from within other parts of his business empire, or some tax arrangement. But he’s not in the same league as some of the Arab, Chinese or Russian owners.

Certainly if he’s got the money, and any real ambition, then I think we’d all like to see him investing enough to give us a fighting chance, on what is a hugely uneven playin field. In the meantime, love or loathe him, he’s the only show in town, and everything that goes on within the Club happens as a direct result.

[marko69]

Answering the thread title direct, twice.

Firstly, to the older generation ------> No.
The most patient elderly fanbase in England, arguably Europe. Get those glory days back at PR!!

Secondly, to the younger generation, -----> yes.
It's tucked away, cozy Ipswich and none of you were born when ITFC were carving up Europe. Be thankful you're in the second tier of English football and quit whingin!! It's like me wanting the Hibs to beat Barcelona 6-0 at Easter Road, AGAIN! (Yes, it happened) ....., ITS NO HAPPENIN AGAIN THOUGH!!

[barmy billy]

[quote="Bluemike"]One thing Billy, I read an article some time back where it is in fact suggested that Marcus Evans IS a Billionaire, when they print these rich lists his wealth is always one of the biggest mysteries of them all. Apparently he once tried to buy the Mirror group or something for around 600 Million if I remember rightly.[/quote]

I wasn't aware of that Mike, thanks for pointing it out.

Having said that, do you think Evans should be putting more than he already does into the Club?

[barmy billy]

Answering the thread title direct, twice.

Firstly, to the older generation ------> No.
The most patient elderly fanbase in England, arguably Europe. Get those glory days back at PR!!

Secondly, to the younger generation, -----> yes.
It's tucked away, cozy Ipswich and none of you were born when ITFC were carving up Europe. Be thankful you're in the second tier of English football and quit whingin!! It's like me wanting the Hibs to beat Barcelona 6-0 at Easter Road, AGAIN! (Yes, it happened) ....., ITS NO HAPPENIN AGAIN THOUGH!!

What about Marcus Evans & money? Should he be putting more in than he already does?

[Charnwood]

As of April 2015 Marcus Evans’ wealth went up £65million to £765m, placing him fourth in The Sunday Times Rich List for East Anglia.

An update will be published in April this year when I expect his wealth to have nudged a bit closer to him being a billionaire.

To put this in perspective, Delia Smith at Norwich City has net worth of circa £30m.

[Bluemike]

One thing Billy, I read an article some time back where it is in fact suggested that Marcus Evans IS a Billionaire, when they print these rich lists his wealth is always one of the biggest mysteries of them all. Apparently he once tried to buy the Mirror group or something for around 600 Million if I remember rightly.

I wasn't aware of that Mike, thanks for pointing it out.

Having said that, do you think Evans should be putting more than he already does into the Club?

Yes Billy I believe he should now be putting more into the club although I do not dismiss the amount he does already put in as many others seem to do. Unfortunately football doesn't stand still and while I got his reasoning for being so cautious after previous managers failings we are now very much in danger of being left behind.

[barmy billy]

One thing Billy, I read an article some time back where it is in fact suggested that Marcus Evans IS a Billionaire, when they print these rich lists his wealth is always one of the biggest mysteries of them all. Apparently he once tried to buy the Mirror group or something for around 600 Million if I remember rightly.

I wasn't aware of that Mike, thanks for pointing it out.

Having said that, do you think Evans should be putting more than he already does into the Club?

Yes Billy I believe he should now be putting more into the club although I do not dismiss the amount he does already put in as many others seem to do. Unfortunately football doesn't stand still and while I got his reasoning for being so cautious after previous managers failings we are now very much in danger of being left behind.

My concern is that he won't put more money in and we just continue to drift aimlessly. The alternative of him selling the Club is something I don't see happening either; I wouldn't have thought, we would be much of a proposition quite honestly, but you never know.

[Shed on tour]

Really can't see Evans changing his mind and putting more money into the club.
I've always said if he was going to really go for it then the January transfer window in 2015 would have been the time he would have done so as we probably won't be in a better position to try and secure promotion to the Premiership during his ownership.

[marko69]

Answering the thread title direct, twice.

Firstly, to the older generation ------> No.
The most patient elderly fanbase in England, arguably Europe. Get those glory days back at PR!!

Secondly, to the younger generation, -----> yes.
It's tucked away, cozy Ipswich and none of you were born when ITFC were carving up Europe. Be thankful you're in the second tier of English football and quit whingin!! It's like me wanting the Hibs to beat Barcelona 6-0 at Easter Road, AGAIN! (Yes, it happened) ....., ITS NO HAPPENIN AGAIN THOUGH!!

What about Marcus Evans & money? Should he be putting more in than he already does?

I honestly see the entire thing from a different mindset, Barmy. The game is essentially f*cked. The amounts of money that Mevans would be required to pump in would be astronomical, -----> and that's only to become maybe a mid to lower EPL club. His gamble would be to do a Stoke and sustain it. I just can't see that happening. Look at Derby County? Even Cardiff City. Arguably should be challenging top 8 EPL by now. Ok, Derby have a chance this season but they've been spend, spend, spending for YEARS, and finishing LOWER than Ipswich.

And maybe it's because I'm not a ST holder or live in Ipswich (have been a fan for 40 years though) but I don't see them as just drifting along in the Championship. Maybe with Mevans it has all become a bit aimless, but I just think of the Blackpools and Portsmouths of the world who've fell past Ipswich like a stone into League 2. That's catastrophic IMO. An Ipswich v Forest Green Rovers game would be equivalent to that of Hibs v Dumbarton. It's soul destroying as a fan.

A new owner with a bit more ambition is no doubt required, but a splasher of cash isn't what I'd like to see at PR.

[charlton837]

Answering the thread title direct, twice.

Firstly, to the older generation ------> No.
The most patient elderly fanbase in England, arguably Europe. Get those glory days back at PR!!

Secondly, to the younger generation, -----> yes.
It's tucked away, cozy Ipswich and none of you were born when ITFC were carving up Europe. Be thankful you're in the second tier of English football and quit whingin!! It's like me wanting the Hibs to beat Barcelona 6-0 at Easter Road, AGAIN! (Yes, it happened) ....., ITS NO HAPPENIN AGAIN THOUGH!!

What about Marcus Evans & money? Should he be putting more in than he already does?

I honestly see the entire thing from a different mindset, Barmy. The game is essentially f*cked. The amounts of money that Mevans would be required to pump in would be astronomical, -----> and that's only to become maybe a mid to lower EPL club. His gamble would be to do a Stoke and sustain it. I just can't see that happening. Look at Derby County? Even Cardiff City. Arguably should be challenging top 8 EPL by now. Ok, Derby have a chance this season but they've been spend, spend, spending for YEARS, and finishing LOWER than Ipswich.

And maybe it's because I'm not a ST holder or live in Ipswich (have been a fan for 40 years though) but I don't see them as just drifting along in the Championship. Maybe with Mevans it has all become a bit aimless, but I just think of the Blackpools and Portsmouths of the world who've fell past Ipswich like a stone into League 2. That's catastrophic IMO. An Ipswich v Forest Green Rovers game would be equivalent to that of Hibs v Dumbarton. It's soul destroying as a fan.

A new owner with a bit more ambition is no doubt required, but a splasher of cash isn't what I'd like to see at PR.

Huge amounts of money is not always needed, but a well run club almost certainly is. I think there are two ways of getting up there, either running your club well and having everyone pulling in the right direction, or throwing lots of money at it, neither come with a guarantee.

I do not expect ME to pump in 30-40m a season on transfers etc. However I do think he could put a bit more in, maybe 5-10m to rebuild a better squad which can then be complimented by some good youngsters from this academy they all rave about. He puts in £6m a year which he is effectively throwing away as hes not giving us a fighting chance, if his wealth increased by £65m why cant he put £10m of this into building a squad with more ability, you never know it might get us up there with a bit of luck and good management and he could then make his money back. If he doesn't do this within 2 season hes chucked more than this away anyway, long term it makes no sense to pump nominal amounts in just to treat water.

Personally im OK with not spending big, Im not convinced its the right thing to do, the most annoying thing is I think with MM in the early days that bit of investment (£5m-10m across a couple of years) may well have been enough. When we were in the top 2 at Christmas we should have taken that calculated gamble then. Problem is now that even with money MM wont be the man to take us forward because the whole relationship between manager, club, players and fans is all fractured, if we haven't got lorry loads of money we need togetherness. They have to sell a plan to the fans, they said in that 5 point plan part of it was to play attractive football and build our team round our academy, some time on I don't really see that much evidence of this to be perfectly honest. If we are going to build a team through our academy then do it, even if at this moment they are not as good. For example play Kenlock ahead of Knudsen, theres not much between them but Kenlock may improve with a season or 2 under his belt. Hes certainly made no progress this year because hes had far less game time than he did even last season.

This goes far deeper than "challenging for the play offs" in my opinion. Its a shame because I believe ME got the MM appointment correct and I think he would have done the job if he were given the resources at the right time, its very poor leadership from Evans and I just don't get why. Nothing in it for him to just keep going as we are, nobody will be willing to pay much for the club and he will continue just throwing £6-7m away every single season (increasing as the money in this league increases)