World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by TODD66 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:49 pm

marko69 wrote:VAR: For something that could be so simple to implement, they’re making a total arse of it.

Football / Soccer needs to pull its head out of its own arse and look at how other FASTER sports use it. Fkn idiots.
Really?

For sure it could be better and it will be as time goes by, but I thought todays little demo was quiet well done.

Ref doesn't see it. Game is still going as he waved play on. Not many seconds later he gets the shout to take a look. He does, realises he was in error and voila - penalty.

Only real difference in other sports is the ref is usually asking someone to check something after the game has stopped, usually because of what as happened and lets face it there are times when the TMO runs through endless replays whilst the viewer is sitting watching and muttering under their breath, FFS get on with it, we saw what happened from the first replay!!

I'm sure the other sports also went through teething issues, thing is it was so long ago we can't remember them. Footballs only fault is they have been so wedded to avoiding its use.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by marko69 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:25 pm

TODD66 wrote:but I thought todays little demo was quiet well done.
I ask you the same question -------> Really?

Just stop play 10 seconds later during a South Korean attack which had reached the Swedish box? Really?

Its a joke.
TODD66 wrote:Ref doesn't see it.
When the incident happened, both my son and I were watching it......, but we were on the phone......, he's in a Melbourne hotel. I wasn't looking at the TV but he said, "Penalty Ref!"......, followed by, "EH? HOWS THAT NO A PENALTY?"
(Needless to say, I was in mid conversation about something completely different and he obviously wasn't listening to me! :lol: )
But the ref needs seriously questioned in that incident. He had a clear, unobstructed view. Just because he couldn't make a decision, that shouldn't affect a South Korean attack which was looking quite decent.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by Tangfastic » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:42 pm

marko69 wrote:
TODD66 wrote:but I thought todays little demo was quiet well done.
I ask you the same question -------> Really?

Just stop play 10 seconds later during a South Korean attack which had reached the Swedish box? Really?

Its a joke.
TODD66 wrote:Ref doesn't see it.
When the incident happened, both my son and I were watching it......, but we were on the phone......, he's in a Melbourne hotel. I wasn't looking at the TV but he said, "Penalty Ref!"......, followed by, "EH? HOWS THAT NO A PENALTY?"
(Needless to say, I was in mid conversation about something completely different and he obviously wasn't listening to me! :lol: )
But the ref needs seriously questioned in that incident. He had a clear, unobstructed view. Just because he couldn't make a decision, that shouldn't affect a South Korean attack which was looking quite decent.
What would have happened if the ref went to the VAR monitor ... and then confirmed his original decision ie no penalty. That’s just ruined a good South Korean attack. It was the right decision, but if it was a 50/50 touch n go decision for the ref to stop play, leave the field ... he might just think “ sh*t, I’ve got to give a penalty now”. Right decision, but the ref going to the monitor was a bit farcical.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by marko69 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:53 pm

^ Correct ^

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by marko69 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:01 pm

So what is going to have you guys jumping from a high height? The England performance? Or Martin Keown commentary?

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by TODD66 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:04 pm

At least it isn't Lawro!

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by TODD66 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:10 pm

tangfastic wrote:
marko69 wrote:
TODD66 wrote:but I thought todays little demo was quiet well done.
I ask you the same question -------> Really?

Just stop play 10 seconds later during a South Korean attack which had reached the Swedish box? Really?

Its a joke.
TODD66 wrote:Ref doesn't see it.
When the incident happened, both my son and I were watching it......, but we were on the phone......, he's in a Melbourne hotel. I wasn't looking at the TV but he said, "Penalty Ref!"......, followed by, "EH? HOWS THAT NO A PENALTY?"
(Needless to say, I was in mid conversation about something completely different and he obviously wasn't listening to me! :lol: )
But the ref needs seriously questioned in that incident. He had a clear, unobstructed view. Just because he couldn't make a decision, that shouldn't affect a South Korean attack which was looking quite decent.
What would have happened if the ref went to the VAR monitor ... and then confirmed his original decision ie no penalty. That’s just ruined a good South Korean attack. It was the right decision, but if it was a 50/50 touch n go decision for the ref to stop play, leave the field ... he might just think “ sh*t, I’ve got to give a penalty now”. Right decision, but the ref going to the monitor was a bit farcical.
The point is he shouldn't be being asked by the massed ranks of VAR officials in their room to even go and take a look unless they are convinced he has made a mistake.

I think his clue that he is going to change his decision is the fact he has been asked to take a look. Perhaps this is where it is not worked right. Other sports the VAR/TMO are being asked did I get that right, not them telling the Ref you may have or did get that wrong.

I am going to suggest that it is about time something was in place, but in a typical FIFA way they are managing to make it sooooo much harder than it needs to be.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by number 9 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:27 pm

If there wasn’t VAR and South Korea went on to score, would that have made it fair since the Ref missed the penalty call? There’s no perfect scenario for either with or without VAR, but I’d prefer bad calls to be corrected...even though there will be times it may affect the flow of the game.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by Bluemike » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:06 pm

Top and bottom of it is they need to scrap the stupid bloody idea before football is ruined completely.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by marko69 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:20 pm

Bluemike wrote:Top and bottom of it is they need to scrap the stupid bloody idea before football is ruined completely.
For me, now that I’ve seen it for 4 days, ^^^^ agreed.

And with Kane being wrestled to the ground TWICE, means it’s not being consistent. It’s sh*t. Needs to be scrapped 100%

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by hallamblue » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:37 pm

Is it me, or was that ref just blatantly biased against England tonight . How the F*** did we not get awarded at least two penalties for the stonewall wrestling of Harry Kane to the floor by their number 4?????

The one time he wasn’t marked or man handled to the ground in the second half - he scores . Coincidence not !

Also , why weren’t the Tunisisn players booked for kicking the ball away ( which they time and again) and their deliberate gamesmanship, including feining injury , time wasting ( taking 5 mins to walk off the pitch when substituted - note the ref telling the England player to run off the pitch) .

Where was this tossa of a ref from anyway? Russia??

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by marko69 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:54 pm

Think his mum is from Russia, Hallam and his dad is from Venezuala.......,

so basically, Venezuala And Russia.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by TODD66 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:45 am

hallamblue wrote:Is it me, or was that ref just blatantly biased against England tonight . How the F*** did we not get awarded at least two penalties for the stonewall wrestling of Harry Kane to the floor by their number 4?????

The one time he wasn’t marked or man handled to the ground in the second half - he scores . Coincidence not !

Also , why weren’t the Tunisisn players booked for kicking the ball away ( which they time and again) and their deliberate gamesmanship, including feining injury , time wasting ( taking 5 mins to walk off the pitch when substituted - note the ref telling the England player to run off the pitch) .

Where was this tossa of a ref from anyway? Russia??
Columbia.

They did say before the game he came with a reputation. Apparently sent 8 players off in final 11 league games this season!

Perhaps he was told to be more humane!

My eldest was seething by the end with a few choice words for the refs performance.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by Dubai Blue » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:39 am

marko69 wrote:
Bluemike wrote:Top and bottom of it is they need to scrap the stupid bloody idea before football is ruined completely.
For me, now that I’ve seen it for 4 days, ^^^^ agreed.

And with Kane being wrestled to the ground TWICE, means it’s not being consistent. It’s sh*t. Needs to be scrapped 100%
Funny, I've been really impressed with how it's been working on the whole. As we discussed in an earlier thread I totally agree that we don't need the farce of the ref's theatrical look at the monitor, although I will say that it does allow the TV to show the pictures also and for us to make up our minds about it. IMO the final decision has been right every time so far.

I do think there is confusion about the role of the VAR team though. The Kane WWF events demonstrate that particularly clearly, especially the second one. As I understand it the VAR team can only pull the game back if there is a clear and obvious error (like in the Sweden game). Presumably in the Kane case there was no agreement in the VAR team that it was a pen, in which case maybe they made the error and the ref was not brave enough to call it at the time because he knew that he could rely on VAR.

By the way I also was fuming about the SK pullback against Sweden until I realised that because of the way the system is designed to work (clear and obvious remember) there was never a chance of the penalty not being awarded.

My conclusions so far:
i. We are getting the correct decisions much more than would be the case otherwise.
ii. I don't like the pitch side reviews but if the videos are shown in the stadium just as we see on TV (they are) then it actually adds to the tension IMO.
iii. I would like to see bookings recommended for cynical fouls seen by VAR but not correctly punished by the ref. This might bring more consistency to decisions and maybe result in less of these events.
iv. I love the fact that players are presumably starting to see that they don't get away with things just because the ref is unsighted.

Unlike you guys I think it has already been a roaring success. In case VAR pulls the game back in the final just like in the Sweden v SK game it will not be the fault of VAR that the continuity is disturbed but the fault of the player who has committed a foul and been found out. A foul is effectively cheating so we have to find out cheating as best we can no?

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by Shed on tour » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:09 am

Bluemike wrote:Top and bottom of it is they need to scrap the stupid bloody idea before football is ruined completely.
Totally agree.
Next thing they will come up with is the game should be played over 4 quarters.
They said on tv this morning that both incidents on Kane were looked at by the VAR team and it was deemed that neither needed to be referred back to the referee.
Just proves that now not only we can have a sh*t ref on the pitch but a team of them in the VAR booth as well.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by charlton837 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:11 am

Dubai Blue wrote:
marko69 wrote:
Bluemike wrote:Top and bottom of it is they need to scrap the stupid bloody idea before football is ruined completely.
For me, now that I’ve seen it for 4 days, ^^^^ agreed.

And with Kane being wrestled to the ground TWICE, means it’s not being consistent. It’s sh*t. Needs to be scrapped 100%
Funny, I've been really impressed with how it's been working on the whole. As we discussed in an earlier thread I totally agree that we don't need the farce of the ref's theatrical look at the monitor, although I will say that it does allow the TV to show the pictures also and for us to make up our minds about it. IMO the final decision has been right every time so far.

I do think there is confusion about the role of the VAR team though. The Kane WWF events demonstrate that particularly clearly, especially the second one. As I understand it the VAR team can only pull the game back if there is a clear and obvious error (like in the Sweden game). Presumably in the Kane case there was no agreement in the VAR team that it was a pen, in which case maybe they made the error and the ref was not brave enough to call it at the time because he knew that he could rely on VAR.

By the way I also was fuming about the SK pullback against Sweden until I realised that because of the way the system is designed to work (clear and obvious remember) there was never a chance of the penalty not being awarded.

My conclusions so far:
i. We are getting the correct decisions much more than would be the case otherwise.
ii. I don't like the pitch side reviews but if the videos are shown in the stadium just as we see on TV (they are) then it actually adds to the tension IMO.
iii. I would like to see bookings recommended for cynical fouls seen by VAR but not correctly punished by the ref. This might bring more consistency to decisions and maybe result in less of these events.
iv. I love the fact that players are presumably starting to see that they don't get away with things just because the ref is unsighted.

Unlike you guys I think it has already been a roaring success. In case VAR pulls the game back in the final just like in the Sweden v SK game it will not be the fault of VAR that the continuity is disturbed but the fault of the player who has committed a foul and been found out. A foul is effectively cheating so we have to find out cheating as best we can no?

I think its worked better than I thought it would however I think its causing refs to not make decisions and wait for someone to advise before pulling it back. I know im probably biased but I really did feel as though it was conspiring against England last night, the pen we gave away was incredibly soft and the ref wasn't even called to review on VAR? Then with Kane being wrestled to the floor again no decision made and no review of it either. I don't think you can give the pen to Tunisia and not the ones to us. Either both or neither should have been given

Im dead against technology taking over decision making in football, however its clear that this is going to be happening moving forwards. Cant help think that a review system would work better, giving the teams the power to review a decision to be looked at again, like they do in tennis. But in any case its all a time delay on a game which should be fast paced.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by Tangfastic » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:59 am

I think England did well there to salvage a win after those referee decisions.

What message does this send out for refereeing if you can get away with wrestling a player in the box at least twice and then draw level through a penalty where the ‘victim’ walks into an outstretched arm and slumps to the floor.

I don’t care about being one-eyed on this.... it was looking like England were going to drop two points due to highly inconsistent refereeing decisions.
Every referee is different, but as long as they are consistent it tends to even things out.

I hope there is a post-match review of the refereeing and the referee doesn’t get another match. That would send out a message.

England should have wrapped that game up in twenty minutes. They did well to create chances, but some of the finishing was terrible. Can’t rely on Kane to be in the right place all the time.

It’s time for players like Sterling and Lingard to step up and be more clinical.

And although the penalty was soft, Walker didn’t defend well and laid himself open for the penalty.

I’m hoping these decisions over the World Cup even themselves out for us because we’re due some decisions going our way. Full marks to the team for not giving up and getting ourselves out of jail.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by marko69 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:44 am

Dubai Blue quote:
Presumably in the Kane case there was no agreement in the VAR team that it was a pen, in which case maybe they made the error and the ref was not brave enough to call it at the time because he knew that he could rely on VAR.
End quote.

The other penalty in the World Cup where the Ref gave the pen for wrestling, (maybe Peru v Den) ...., the ref saw it, gave it and good job done.
There was so much going on in that Tunisia box that the ref himself possibly genuinely didn’t see the Kane incidents....... BUT, for these Harry Kane incidents ALONE; ——> for the VAR team to NOT be in agreement means the entire thing is a total farce. Opinion of course but this needs ironed out.

Just to add......., had Tunisia got a late equaliser, the Kane incidents would’ve been front page news with cartoons of Video Assisted Referees being hung, drawn and quartered.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by Bluemike » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:50 am

Shed on tour wrote:
Bluemike wrote:Top and bottom of it is they need to scrap the stupid bloody idea before football is ruined completely.
Totally agree.
Next thing they will come up with is the game should be played over 4 quarters.
They said on tv this morning that both incidents on Kane were looked at by the VAR team and it was deemed that neither needed to be referred back to the referee.
Just proves that now not only we can have a sh*t ref on the pitch but a team of them in the VAR booth as well.
Exactly Shed and this proves it isnt bloody working despite what some think.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by Shed on tour » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:02 pm

Just changing the subject for a moment have to say well done to ITFC for opening the fanzone for last night's game.
Not quite the same as being there but still a very enjoyable evening.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by hallamblue » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:03 pm

marko69 wrote:Think his mum is from Russia, Hallam and his dad is from Venezuala.......,

so basically, Venezuala And Russia.

Does this VAR stop the ref / linesmen making observations of their own and making a decision???

Honestly I despair . Technology isn’t the be all and end all in any walk of life. We have brain , eyes, bloody use them !!!

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by charlton837 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:02 pm

Shed on tour wrote:Just changing the subject for a moment have to say well done to ITFC for opening the fanzone for last night's game.
Not quite the same as being there but still a very enjoyable evening.
I agree, I went to the fanzone too, found it to be enjoyable, although a bit annoyed I missed the happy hour beer prices by about 30 seconds!

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by Marvinbay1973 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:27 pm

hallamblue wrote:Is it me, or was that ref just blatantly biased against England tonight . How the F*** did we not get awarded at least two penalties for the stonewall wrestling of Harry Kane to the floor by their number 4?????

The one time he wasn’t marked or man handled to the ground in the second half - he scores . Coincidence not !

Also , why weren’t the Tunisisn players booked for kicking the ball away ( which they time and again) and their deliberate gamesmanship, including feining injury , time wasting ( taking 5 mins to walk off the pitch when substituted - note the ref telling the England player to run off the pitch) .

Where was this tossa of a ref from anyway? Russia??

That's the state of the game nowadays isn't it, like when the guy was down because he was hit in the back by the ball FFS, should have stamped on his fingers give him something to cry about.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by hallamblue » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:52 pm

:lol: :lol: yes I second that motion lol!!
The game is full of prima donas who vastly overpaid .

Me, I loved the footie in the 1970’s and early to mid 80’s. Far better than the over indulged snowflakes we see today . It’s not even gamesmanship is it , just cheating in its rawest form.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by goldandblack » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:41 pm

hallamblue wrote::lol: :lol: yes I second that motion lol!!
The game is full of prima donas who vastly overpaid .

Me, I loved the footie in the 1970’s and early to mid 80’s. Far better than the over indulged snowflakes we see today . It’s not even gamesmanship is it , just cheating in its rawest form.

In local football leagues from next season there's a new amendment to the rules that any player using abusive language on the pitch will now be sin binned for I believe 10 or 15 mins.

this should be adapted to diving as well. this new VAR could or should cut this cheating out, I'm with you on this Liz, it really puts me off spending good hard earned money watching these rich kids cheating us and fellow professionals .I'd love to see the likes of Norman Hunter, Chopper Harris. and Tommy Smith etc put a few tackles into these cheats. don't think they'd be faking the pain, 8)

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by Marvinbay1973 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:54 pm

goldandblack wrote:
hallamblue wrote::lol: :lol: yes I second that motion lol!!
The game is full of prima donas who vastly overpaid .

Me, I loved the footie in the 1970’s and early to mid 80’s. Far better than the over indulged snowflakes we see today . It’s not even gamesmanship is it , just cheating in its rawest form.

In local football leagues from next season there's a new amendment to the rules that any player using abusive language on the pitch will now be sin binned for I believe 10 or 15 mins.

this should be adapted to diving as well. this new VAR could or should cut this cheating out, I'm with you on this Liz, it really puts me off spending good hard earned money watching these rich kids cheating us and fellow professionals .I'd love to see the likes of Norman Hunter, Chopper Harris. and Tommy Smith etc put a few tackles into these cheats. don't think they'd be faking the pain, 8)
That would be a great watch :D

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by Tangfastic » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:13 pm

Another penalty today against Denmark with an Australian heading the ball at a Danish defenders hand.... which VAR confirmed as a penalty. Perhaps Technically a penalty as it did hit the hand, but surely a defender has to jump with his arms out? I don’t think that was deliberate handball... it was like instantaneous and pretty much directly hit the hand. What are rules on handball ... does it have to be deemed deliberate?

I can see a situation where attackers don’t try and cross for their player, but deliberately try and hit a hand or an arm.

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by Bluemike » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:26 pm

I tbought it had to be hand to ball and in a deliberate attempt to block it or play it? Ball to hand as far as I am aware should akways be deemed accidental ?

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Post by Bluemike » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:58 pm

Good riddance Argies, crock of cheating sh*te

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Re: World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

Post by ipswichtownNo1 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:08 pm

goldandblack wrote:
hallamblue wrote::lol: :lol: yes I second that motion lol!!
The game is full of prima donas who vastly overpaid .

Me, I loved the footie in the 1970’s and early to mid 80’s. Far better than the over indulged snowflakes we see today . It’s not even gamesmanship is it , just cheating in its rawest form.

In local football leagues from next season there's a new amendment to the rules that any player using abusive language on the pitch will now be sin binned for I believe 10 or 15 mins.

this should be adapted to diving as well. this new VAR could or should cut this cheating out, I'm with you on this Liz, it really puts me off spending good hard earned money watching these rich kids cheating us and fellow professionals .I'd love to see the likes of Norman Hunter, Chopper Harris. and Tommy Smith etc put a few tackles into these cheats. don't think they'd be faking the pain, 8)
Tommy smith and tackles in the same sentance :lol:

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