World Cup 2018 (All World Cup Chat Exclusively Here Please).

[marko69]

Nacho (for me) still has goal of the tournament so far, but Modric goal last night was very good indeed.

Sort of stuck about Argentina. Don’t like them as a footballing country, but big Lionel Messi fan. I think he’s been massively let down by his team mates. He showed quite a bit of creativity last night but his colleagues just aren’t on the same page.

[Bluemike]

Some would say he let his teammates down by missing the pen in the first game.

[marko69]

Those some people are tits though. Carrying the weight of a huge nation square on his shoulders.

I’d say the goalkeeper let everyone down. Still can’t figure out what that was meant to be. Even if he’d made that chip successful, there was Croatian bearing down on the defender. Complete arsehole moment...... weeks of prep oot the window.

[Bluemike]

Indeed the keeper was culpable, so enjoyable to watch though, Croatia on the other hand !!! I've not seen anything better yet.

[marko69]

STONEWALL Serbia pen......, nothing.

VAR can officially go fk itself. Fkn useless. It’s even LESS consistent that referees.

Pish. Get rid of it FIFA.

[marko69]

I’ve not seen all the games, but Serbia v Swiss has been the best game I’ve witnessed so far. What a game.

[Ricco]

STONEWALL Serbia pen......, nothing.

VAR can officially go fk itself. Fkn useless. It’s even LESS consistent that referees.

Pish. Get rid of it FIFA.

Can't argue, they're using it in an awful, sporadic, unreliable way. I personally think it has a place in football's future, just not like this.

Give each team one, maybe two challenges in a match like tennis and you'll have a far far better system.

Why they brought it in for a World Cup after resisting so staunchly for years is beyond me, why not test in domestic leagues for at least 3 or 4 years and do some trials, iron out the negatives first. Bizarre.

[Bluemike]

They will obviously want to hail VAR as a success but it's an absolute joke.

[Dubai Blue]

I have the impression that some made up their minds about VAR before we started and are simply not watching. For me it's been awesome and clearly we will never go back. BEIN before the game over here went through the numbers before the Serbia game and out of 12 pens awarded so far 6 were VAR awards. All of course were correct. That's 6 penalties that would not have happened without VAR. That statistic alone should be enough to persuade the doubters.

Even better we had a great example from the Brazil v Costa Rica game of VAR pointing out that a ref had given a pen to cheating Neymar by mistake. FANTASTIC! A cheat caught out by VAR. Only issue was why Neymar didn't get a yellow for the dive.

I respect you guys and your thoughts but I simply can't understand how anyone can say that VAR has not been a fantastic success so far. It seems to me that some of you friends are watching games in a parallel universe

[marko69]

Mind was definitely not made up beforehand, Dubai. Very open minded.

For me...... refs are inconsistent and they annoy me immensely (even though I know it’s a difficult job)
VAR, so far, in my opinion, is also inconsistent.

That’s f**king TWO inconsistents now, and it’s got on my tits three times so far.

I’d rather go back to regular refs. I’ll respect them a bit more!

[Ricco]

Come on though Dubai, awesome, is that really a fair superlative? I'm behind tech in football and was looking forward to seeing VAR and still believe it will be sorted out and be implemented well in future, but it has been far far too inconsistent, which is the thing it is trying to tackle.

It has not been flawless at all, there was a Serbian rugby tackled to the floor by TWO Swiss players just now and yet a penalty is given against Walker for shielding the ball and having a man headbutt his arm.

The one thing I'm most concerned about is the dynamic between the officials and the game has changed so much, you may point to penalties that have been given and overturned by VAR as a positive, but perhaps referees are giving less because of VAR, linesmen aren't giving offsides and other decisions, and because of this we're getting all sorts of weird advantages being played and scenarios that we wouldn't normally see. I could talk for a long time, but the current system is most definitely a negative for the sport, not a positive, it will get there and I support it, but it isn't working and shouldn't have been introduced at this WC.

[Dubai Blue]

Marko I don't personally think VAR is inconsistent but I think we have different expectations from it. IMO It's important to measure it's consistency against the rules that were set for it rather than what we would like it to be able to do.

I think we will all have a right royal pub style debate on this after the WC has finished. You are right to mention being open minded. I'll keep mine open too until the final is done & dusted.

VAR or no VAR it's been a great tournament so far!

[marko69]

Hmmmmm well, it’s been no Italia 90 or Germany 06......,but it’s been ok!

Just joshin..., Definitely enjoyed what I’ve witnessed so far.

[Ricco]

That’s f**king TWO inconsistents now, and it’s got on my tits three times so far.

It's worse than that Marko, it's inconsistent refs, using an inconsistent system, inconsistently. It's an exponential growth of inconsistencies!!

We've had play stopped so a ref could look at something that was only just a yellow card and yet some stonewall penalties have been completely ignored. Challenges are the only way tech will work.

[Dubai Blue]

Come on though Dubai, awesome, is that really a fair superlative? I'm behind tech in football and was looking forward to seeing VAR and still believe it will be sorted out and be implemented well in future, but it has been far far too inconsistent, which is the thing it is trying to tackle.

It has not been flawless at all, there was a Serbian rugby tackled to the floor by TWO Swiss players just now and yet a penalty is given against Walker for shielding the ball and having a man headbutt his arm.

The one thing I'm most concerned about is the dynamic between the officials and the game has changed so much, you may point to penalties that have been given and overturned by VAR as a positive, but perhaps referees are giving less because of VAR, linesmen aren't giving offsides and other decisions, and because of this we're getting all sorts of weird advantages being played and scenarios that we wouldn't normally see. I could talk for a long time, but the current system is most definitely a negative for the sport, not a positive, it will get there and I support it, but it isn't working and shouldn't have been introduced at this WC.

Ricco there are some great points there and I do agree with many of them. The game has changed and VAR is not yet perfect. However as you mentioned it's a work in progress and there are clearly changes needed. Personally I see it as positive because it has eliminated SOME cheating in the sport. The inconsistency that you claim cannot IMO be improved without taking more authority away from the ref and I'm not sure that this is in the long term interests of the game. We may have to accept a little inconsistency between games in order to get fairer treatment over the course of single games. After all refs without VAR are pretty inconsistent too right? Maybe even more so.

[Dubai Blue]

By the way just read this:

ESPN have produced a report which might explain why both Kane penalties weren’t given.
Ferjani Sassi clearly wrestled Kane to the ground in the 39th-minute but defender John Stones may have committed a foul just before.
Stones clearly pushed Ellyes Skhiri in the back with VAR protocol stating that if there is a foul by the attacking team before the review incident, then that negates the review.
That could explain the first one.
What about the second one?
This time, Yassine Meriah brought Kane down.
However, replays show Kane also had hold of Meriah’s arm and was pulling down the Tunisian himself.

So maybe we are all wrong............

Source:https://www.givemesport.com/1336800-two ... vs-tunisia

[marko69]

It's worse than that Marko, it's inconsistent refs, using an inconsistent system, inconsistently. It's an exponential growth of inconsistencies!

Excellent way of putting it. And very true.

[Ricco]

Personally I see it as positive because it has eliminated SOME cheating in the sport.

To see Neymar denied was incredibly heartwarming, just unfortunate they manged to get the late goals.

You're right that refs are imperfect, but they don't stop play, they don't disallow goals long after they're scored and the celebrating team are mentally and physically exhausted from the man loving. If you're going to bring in something disruptive it has to come with a large benefit, I agree with you, it'll get there, but sadly not the way it is being used currently.

It's consistency and fairness that teams want and while it has worked in some instances, it makes the incidences it's missed seem even more unjust to the victims. In some games it seems to be hardly used, in some it is over used, stop play for little thing, not even bother to check big things, not good enough.

I've not come across one argument that suggests challenges would be worse than the current system, it's better in every way except a minor one...

[Ricco]

Stones clearly pushed Ellyes Skhiri in the back with VAR protocol stating that if there is a foul by the attacking team before the review incident, then that negates the review.

Just wow

How can complexities like that possibly suit football, who writes this stuff?

So what if the referee gave the penalty? We would go back for Stone's foul instead? but because he didn't give the penalty, we ignore it? that doesn't work for me, that's f**king with timelines. Who's to say that Stone's foul has any less of an impact on the outcome of the game, shouldn't we have gone back for that, what if Tunisia would've scored from it?

What if a Tunisian had fouled a player before Stones fouled a player, would that then negate the first foul and now the penalty is given again. That's looking at things incorrectly, far too complex, the referee's decision has to be trusted to some degree, incidents must be looked at in isolation.

[marko69]

Yep, I was in the middle of saying that ESPN report is nothing short of utter bullshit, then a buddy called. But you sum things up so much better, Ricco.

I actually doubt it’ll get better the way it’s being implemented. Personally I don’t think it’s a massive issue......, I’ve banged on enough about the AFL....... man in the booth works well for them re penalties, goals etc....., no idea why it can’t cross over into the sawker!

[loudnproud]

They will obviously want to hail VAR as a success but it's an absolute joke.

Have to agree with you Mike.....VAR is on the global stage and their for all to see, We all as fans and critics want to see fair play in the game and VAR has the technology to rule......It works in Rugby and it should be allowed to work in football. Some of the decisions or should we say lack of them ,has been close to corruptible....

[marko69]

Love them, hate them...... they’re f**king class! Absolutely stunning goal by Kroos. Enjoyed that.

[Tangfastic]

Fair play to the Germans ... they deserved it. Can’t believe how Sweden closed that game out with a man advantage. Should have used that advantage to hold onto the ball... they just kept on giving it back to the Germans and invited balls into their box. You’d have thought the Germans had the extra man.

[Ohiotractorboy]

Panama got in over the US. Firing the coach and President of US Soccer isn't enough. They, along with Michael Brantley, should do the right thing and find the nearest firing squad.

[ashfordblue]

wow watched the England V Panama game in the pub, certainly didn't expect to be 5-0 up by half time, loved Kane's heel clip deflection goal, absolute class, the second half we took our foot off the gas and cruised the game to 6-1 win, we looked far too classy for Panama, so bring on Belgium that should be a sterner test, just hope we keep the momentum going, Kane's on fire now, 5 goals

[derick_ipsw]

Fair play to the Germans ... they deserved it. Can’t believe how Sweden closed that game out with a man advantage. Should have used that advantage to hold onto the ball... they just kept on giving it back to the Germans and invited balls into their box. You’d have thought the Germans had the extra man.

Sweden reminded me of Ipswich...........how not to close a game out!!

[Tangfastic]

I don’t think I’m over Mick McCarthy yet. He’s scarred me and left some of his footballing ideals with me.
I can’t get excited about that 6-1 win, because I was more agitated by the sloppy defending. Ashley Young worries me at LWB... he gets turned so easily. Defenders giving the ball away in our own half and about 3 players playing the Panama scorer onside. Playing like that I think we’ll lose against a decent side. Sterling was crap and Rashford should have been given a run out.
Mick would have been overjoyed with the set piece goals, though.

I know I should be overjoyed by hammering a side, but when we start getting that ‘ this could be our year’ feeling after a good win, that’s when the wheels usually come off.

Lingard played really well and what a goal. Just tighten up in defence and let Kane supervise daily penalty-taking coaching sessions for the knock out stages. Great penalties.

[charlton837]

I don’t think I’m over Mick McCarthy yet. He’s scarred me and left some of his footballing ideals with me.
I can’t get excited about that 6-1 win, because I was more agitated by the sloppy defending. Ashley Young worries me at LWB... he gets turned so easily. Defenders giving the ball away in our own half and about 3 players playing the Panama scorer onside. Playing like that I think we’ll lose against a decent side. Sterling was crap and Rashford should have been given a run out.
Mick would have been overjoyed with the set piece goals, though.

I know I should be overjoyed by hammering a side, but when we start getting that ‘ this could be our year’ feeling after a good win, that’s when the wheels usually come off.

Lingard played really well and what a goal. Just tighten up in defence and let Kane supervise daily penalty-taking coaching sessions for the knock out stages. Great penalties.

cmon Tang, lets have some positivity for the lads! I take the point that it was only Panama, its tough to make to much of it, but lets not forget how we have struggled against poor teams in the past, remember Algeria anyone? You can only beat whats in front of you, I thought we played well first half (after the first 5 mins or so). Lingard goal was a beauty, Kane is on a scoring streak, all bodes well, clearly we have been practicing our set pieces but what is nice is that we also attack from free play too, we were trying to be ruthless. I was really happy to hear Southgates comments after, talking about how he was unhappy with the goal conceded and aspects of our play, he told them at HT we needed at least 1 more goal to get ahead of Belgium on GD, that is being positive and its what we need.

I don't believe we will win it, it would take something special for that to happen, but we have a chance to progress further than we have for a while, at least everyone seems to be enjoying it this year, the players/management seem to be having a great time too. All too often its looked like the weight on their shoulders is too much and they become defensive both in terms of how they play and how they talk to fans/media. We appear to be as one at the moment, maybe it would change if we got knocked out with a whimper, but for the moment lets take the momentum and see where it takes us.

[Tangfastic]

Yeah... you’re right.... there was a bit of tongue in cheek, but I couldn’t quite take that game seriously. Panama’s first-half tactics backfired completely. I actually enjoyed the Tunisia game more.

Looking forward to the Belgium game and see where we are against real opposition who want to play football, too.

[Dubai Blue]

Honestly Tang I don't think the Belgium game will tell us much for a number of reasons:
i. Yellow cards are erased after the round of 16 games (I think) so this dead rubber is not going to be contested in a way that will lead to more cards. Maybe even some players with one card will be rested.
ii. Key players are not going to be risked in this dead game.
iii. With the draw becoming clearer now it could well be better to finish second in this group and prepare for a ROS game against Japan who I don't see having any issues against an abject Poland.
The only interest in the Belgium game for me is in watching players on both sides who haven't started and are fighting to start v Japan (or Senegal who should manage to hold Colombia).
My big concern is actually that we won't play a properly competitive game against a good side until the QF when I predict us playing against Brazil. This could count against us.