My issue with Hurst

[Chambo's Fist Pump]

To qualify - I wasn't a Mick In/out but I agree a change had to be made.

Hurst took an unfancied Shewsbury side from nothing to 90 mins away from Championship football and he has to be commended for that, he clearly has something about him.

My issue(s) are this.

1. player recruitment.

He clearly has a way of playing which is refreshing than the Mick mantra of 'try not to lose by playing as many defensive players as i can' by giving us width, a bit more balance and above all hunger and ambition.
That being said, buying young, hungry but untested players at this level is a gamble that i'm finding hard to swallow - it may work out (and I really hope it does) but if it doesn't, we will drop down a league, of that I have no doubt.
Gwion Edwards has impressed, not only with how he took his goal against Blackburn but with the way he has screamed for the ball and attacked the wing backs and has beaten them with ease.
With Nolan and Nsiala - the jury is out until I have seen them to make a balanced judgement.
Donacien just doesn't do it for me, he looks totally out of his depth at this level and would have preferred someone with a bit more experience and more tactical awareness.
Chalobah for me was a liability against Blackburn - wins the ball and loses it with a woeful pass, mentality of Bramble I fear: on it for 89 mins and then a min of madness and it costs us.
KJ - ready for the big step up? i think not but would love him to prove me wrong.
Ellis Harrison, played well against West Ham and took his goal well, I'm happy we got that deal over the line, could be a great foil for Sears.
Jordan Roberts will be a bit part player at best, seemed to be not so much of a panic buy but more of a signing that 'will do' if we can't get anyone else.

2. Player sales.

Webster for all his promise had a big question mark over injuries and the fee we got far a player who only played a quarter of games for us last term is a damn good return - i wish him well
Garner to Bolton was a surprise but not totally unexpected, he tailed off before his injury and I think the writing was already on the wall.

The one that angers me: Martyn Waghorn.

He was our standout player last season and without his goals and assists we'd be League 1 for sure and i'm annoyed that Hurst let him go without giving him a go .
The fee is a total joke too - Britt Assombalonga went from Forest to Middlesbrough for 15 million who by comparison had a below average season at Forest.
His all round play was worse than Waggy and we sold him on the cheap - we will always be a selling club but we should have said 10 million and not a penny less.
From what i've heard from various people was that he never wanted to leave, his wife and kids were settled here so much that even his parents moved to the area

3. This season.

Lucky against Blackburn, poor against Rotherham and woeful at Exeter - things to need to happen quick or we could be in for a Keane/Jewell-esqe season.

4. Prediction.

I want Hurst to prove me wrong, i really do but i've not seen much so far to convince me, if we're still in the mire come Christmas will ME have a choice to make?
Transition is the key word here and the Hurst revolution is in full swing but if it blows up in our face we could be in trouble for this season and probably the next or even beyond.

My issue is that Hurst may not be ready for this step up - criticising players in public(post Exeter) is not the way to go, that should be handled in house and not across the media - this is poor man management and Chambers interview alludes to that which is a concern.

You may agree with me and you may not but buckle in boys and girls - we're in for a rough ride.

[AylesburyBlue]

As soon as I read ‘great foil for sears’ I had to stop reading. Fair play tho.

[Bluemike]

Quite a bit I don't agree with there Adam and I hope to god you are wrong mate.

I think it is fair to say that the jury will be out on all our signings for a few weeks yet, however Nsiala, Chalobah, Edun and Edwards have already impressed me at different times, Nolan is expected to excel at this level while Jackson and Harrison have shown glimpses of what they can do with little or no support at all, I think they all need to be given a fair crack of the whip.

Like Aylesbury I cannot get this Sears thing, he is sh*te in my eyes, end of, some will disagree but he's done feck all for years despite |MM having faith in him and keeping him in the side, I really don't want to hear the MM ruined him cobblers either cus many players have been played out of position.

I disagree completely that Waghorn did not want to leave, in fact I understand it to be completely the opposite, I think he wanted away for the big pay day etc.

Not sure if you saw the Rotherham game but we were not poor, we weren't fantastic I grant you but dominated the game, created nearly all of the chances, bossed all the stats and were denied certainly One possibly two penalties, take away the level of opposition and it was a decent away performance by a side thrown together a few days before, it takes time, everyone has to understand that, Hurst even said it pre season, he wanted all the signings in early but Shrewsbury and Accrington wouldnt play ball, Chalobah was away with England so they've had little time together, I wasn't pleased Tuesday night but the Two league games are not as bad as many are making out. Of course tomorrow is a tough game so it could get worse before it gets better.

[Chambo's Fist Pump]

Sears is sh*te!?!

Totally disagree there.

Mick played him out of position and was totally ineffectual and isolated.

It's no coincidence that he started firing when Klug came in and played him in his favoured position.

Sears needs to be given a fair crack this term and played through the middle can be lethal, he's rapid and knows where the goal is.

[Bluemike]

Well we will have to agree to disagree on that one, for what it's worth I wish you were right but it just won't ever happen, Tuesday again he was woeful.

[Tangfastic]

I can understand the anxiety because of the results, but find it difficult to understand how fans expect everything to happen overnight.

I like the idea of going for lower league players. The ones who have done well and with the potential ( not certainty) of stepping up. They’re also the ones within our budget. I don’t see how and where we can buy other decent, youngish Championship players. The only PL or Championship experienced players that we could get on our budget are ones surplus to requirement and over the hill. That’s stepping backwards into Mick territory.

I know it’s a gamble, but it got to the stage where the gamble was necessary. We have to break the cycle somehow and if it means taking that extra risk... so be it.

As for Waghorn... Waghorn was the principle reason he left. He couldn’t turn down a deal where his wages were doubled and he might have more of a sniff of the PL. His price I’m sure was related to his age, last transfer fee (250 K) and the fact that in his career at the age of 28 he’s really had only one good season at a reasonable level. I don’t see how we’re a selling club, where we’ve brought in 3 times as many players as we’ve sold. And they haven’t been panic buys... they were ones Hurst wanted. We’ll see over time whether Hurst has got his recruitment right.... but I think 3 games is a tad soon.

[AylesburyBlue]

Sears is sh*te!?!

Totally disagree there.

Mick played him out of position and was totally ineffectual and isolated.

It's no coincidence that he started firing when Klug came in and played him in his favoured position.

Sears needs to be given a fair crack this term and played through the middle can be lethal, he's rapid and knows where the goal is.

At Reading he made the most of Manonne being one of the most accident prone keepers in the league. And in then last 6/7 minutes I can assure you a one eyed leper with no legs could have scored if played striker, Reading defence was the worst I’ve ever seen.

Watch his highlights of his 1 good season..... virtually every goal took a deflection or he hit into the ground first. He rarely strikes the ball clean.

It’s also no good being rapid if you show the opposition you don’t want to be touched. He looks like his bones are made of glass and skin made of paper as soon as a player is 5 yards away from him.

BUT, all the above is opinion. What is fact is that his confidence is gone and he won’t get that back at ITFC, it’s too late for him.

[Watership Down]

Once Sears signed his contract his play regressed. How can you justify a place in the team when scoring is not one of your best attributes...... come to that nothing is your best attribute. Colchester would welcome him back

[derick_ipsw]

My issue with Hurst is he is completely out of his depth. he has not got a clue what his best team is or which formation to play. He has used more players 24 than any other championship club and that was before today. He needs to go I'm afraid should not of been hired in the first place. There was only ME & Blue Mike who wanted him. Brian Klug can take over until a experienced championship manager could be found.

[charlton837]

Few thoughts on that

1 - no experienced championship manager would take us on without a substantial pack packet

2 - didn't we want to move away from that?

3- even if we did bring another manager in we have got a whole new squad built by PH. Seems pointless to let him build a new squad and bring someone else in to work with his players


I too am worried of course I am but I think we have to just stick with PH. In my opinion we have been sleepwalking our way to a relegation battle for a while. It's true that it's going to be very a difficult season. I wanted Hurst, i want him to stay. I do have some concerns that we had changed too much too quickly, our team looks like a team of strangers which in many respects they are.

Maybe I'm in the minority but I'd give PH the season and if that means relegation then so be it, we will have to build from there and we need some stability. I just don't think many would be able to come in and work with this squad and suddenly get wins each week with them.

Let's hope were sitting here in a weeks time with 6 points from 2 home games, will be very tough but not impossible. We were dreadful today but we need to remember that actually against Rotherham, sheff wed, villa, Norwich you could argue we deserved to win, We played well but that doesn't get you points. For me one problem is our lack of goal threat, we need to rectify that.

So I'm not disagreeing with people who are very worried, I think we all are but this was the risk and we all (or the vast majority) wanted it.

[marko69]

Sleepwalking to a relegation battle? When? You mean waaaaay back in the Roy Keane & Paul Jewell era?

Since THAT era, THIS is the only time ITFC have been contenders for a relegation battle.

But, I too, do not want Hurst out. He should be given time. He is indeed taking his sweet f**king time, but prepared to stick with him.

[charlton837]

In terms of results yes but this in my opinion has been coming. Supporters walking away from the club with apathy, lack of connection between club and fans is a big problem. That would have caught up with us in the end, maybe with Mick we would be safe but we would be in more of a mess eventually with further infighting.

We have to all stick together and come through this. Clearly this is a tough time, nobody would deny that but this change HAD to happen. Maybe I'll be proved wrong but I still think Hurst can be the man to lead us forward

[rossi]

I have absolutely no issue with PH.

But clearly, he cannot cut it at this level, he's just not good enough

[charlton837]

I have absolutely no issue with PH.

But clearly, he cannot cut it at this level, he's just not good enough

Given where we are it's hard to argue with that. I believe he can turn it round and will learn from all this but I don't want to come across as someone who just had blind faith. I am worried and I have a few concerns with some of the decisions he has made but I really hope he can turn it round. We are 2 points from safety and the league is still in early stages, no need to be at panic stations just yet but the performance today was probably the most worrying so far, certainly in the league.

I just heard Chambers interview as well, brutally honest. In a team that a lacking characters I believe he is essential to us at this moment in time, we need him to help give people a lift and guide them a bit

[barmy billy]

I have no issue with Hurst. He was employed after a thorough and exhaustive interview process and clearly impressed Marcus Evans.

I think the problem is that some people saw him as the Messiah and thought ITFC would be immediately transformed into a promotion challenging side. That's not how it works I'm afraid. Hurst has been very bold in his transfer dealing and I think it is already clear that he has come up short in some cases. All managers make mistakes and Hurst is no different and I have every confidence that things will come good and we will finish the season out of the relegation zone having consolidated for next year.

Good teams are not made overnight. especially with the financial resources provided by Marcus Evans. Be patient, give the man a chance and judge him further down the line.

[Charnwood]

I have absolutely no issue with PH.

But clearly, he cannot cut it at this level, he's just not good enough

I think you and i have always been in the same camp on this one Rossi, I've always held the opinion that this league requires a Championship experienced manager and Championship experienced players. I have nothing against Paul hurst as a person and a mate of mine who's known him since his days at Ilkeston Town speaks very highly of him, however I can't help thinking he's a few notches short of what we need at Portman Road and for me his recruitment has been poor.

Unfortunately I don't have the same confidence some of you have, however for the sake of stability on this occasion I'd be far more happy for you guys to be proved right and me wrong.

[marko69]

But........, you did want Jack Ross @ PR, Charnwood?
Scottish Championship credentials are LIGHT YEARS behind English League One credentials. So it doesn’t make sense that you are saying an English Championship experienced manager was required? Seriously...... in a genuine non argumentative way...... wot you on about innit?

Jack not finding it easy. Burton 2 Sunderland 1.
Another coupon burster.

[Charnwood]

But........, you did want Jack Ross @ PR, Charnwood?
Scottish Championship credentials are LIGHT YEARS behind English League One credentials. So it doesn’t make sense that you are saying an English Championship experienced manager was required? Seriously...... in a genuine non argumentative way...... wot you on about innit?

Jack not finding it easy. Burton 2 Sunderland 1.
Another coupon burster.

I didn't want either of them Marko although given a two horse race I admit i preferred Jack Ross over Paul Hurst. I've always held the opinion we should have recruited a Championship experienced manager and nothing so far has changed my mind.

[marko69]

Understood.

Got to admit, I too was quietly liking the idea of Jack @ PR. Would’ve been a great story. Young Scottish manager making it big @ the club I’ve loved since I was ten years old.

At the moment, the alternative story (had Jack Ross found it tough) is panning out no different to what’s happening now.

Praying Hurst turns it around but I’ve just read Mach Polish Blues match report...... Jaysus! It sounds desperate.

Come on, Paul...... let’s see some mid table action before Xmas.

[Charnwood]

I hope he turns it round too Marko but it has to start very soon like next week. I've just looked ahead to our October fixtures and holy sh*t it looks tough with points looking very hard to come by.

[marko69]

Hurst needs to get that one win before the month of October begins. That has to be the objective. Forget style of play and how attractive it looks. Get the effin win on the board.

[Dubai Blue]

Actually I think that's the problem Marko, he seems not to know how best to set up the team and is trying everything to get off the mark. I wish he had carried on with the original plan........

[charlton837]

Actually I think that's the problem Marko, he seems not to know how best to set up the team and is trying everything to get off the mark. I wish he had carried on with the original plan........

I agree with you Dubai. I think in the first month or so things were not all bad, we needed some luck but the basis was there and we were at least looking good in patches. We are almost desperately changing it up at the moment to stumble across something that works. If I were PH I'd go back to original plan but perhaps play Walters as the striker for now

[marko69]

Yep.

Immediately after Charnwood had posted the team line up, I was sitting in the pub on Easter Road before heading to the game, and I uttered out loud to the pals “This Paul Hurst guy is acting a bit feckin clueless with these starting line ups. Fkn stumbling about looking for a formula!” .... then posted my thoughts.

I must’ve missed something between the lines on the forum...... but “the original plan”? What was his original plan? He obviously didn’t win any games with his original plan and changed it....., but what are you two saying? There would’ve been a couple of wins by now had he stuck with his original plan?

[Tangfastic]

He does seem like he’s trying to stumble upon something.

The original plan was one up top. I think looking at the Norwich game when we went to 4-4-2... I would go with that.

Walters was wasted up front on his own... and Harrison/Jackson were also isolated before.

Getting the right midfielders is key. I was hoping Nolan would be the inspiration, but he’s finding it tough stepping up.

I would go with Chalobah and Edun in midfield, but can’t see Skuse getting dropped. Just think these two offer more going forward and linking the forwards. Graham seems like he’s now the dead ball ‘specialist’.... and I did feel there was a slight improvement with his corners. I would persevere with him on the left. Walters and Jackson up front. Edwards on the right.
That would mean we can’t get Donacien in as RB unless his permit comes through... so we would be stuck with Spence .

Not sure about going with the original plan because the one up top didn’t really work, but agree that it all looks a bit desperate chopping and changing personnel just hoping that something clicks.

[marko69]

Cheers for that, Tangfastic.

What’s worrying is the last person stumbling about in desperation was Paul, the Jewell of Porn. And we all know how that ended.

McCarthy back at ITFC , January 3rd?

[Charnwood]

I know my comment will be controversial but I think Paul Hurst is out of his depth in the Championship and will be gone before the end of the season. I think he’s underestimated the gap between this league and League 1, and has brought in too many players without the experience of playing Championship football which in my opinion is one of the toughest leagues in football across Europe.

As i’ve said before I’ve nothing against Paul Hurst and nothing would please me more than be proved wrong and see him succeed, I just don’t see it happening, at least not with the current squad he’s put together.

[charlton837]

Yep.

Immediately after Charnwood had posted the team line up, I was sitting in the pub on Easter Road before heading to the game, and I uttered out loud to the pals “This Paul Hurst guy is acting a bit feckin clueless with these starting line ups. Fkn stumbling about looking for a formula!” .... then posted my thoughts.

I must’ve missed something between the lines on the forum...... but “the original plan”? What was his original plan? He obviously didn’t win any games with his original plan and changed it....., but what are you two saying? There would’ve been a couple of wins by now had he stuck with his original plan?

I was referring more to personnel than the system ie. 1 or 2 up front. I can understand his reasons for dropping Bart and Gerken has done nothing wrong so I don't mind that. However for me its the midfield that's the problem, at the start of the season we started with Skuse and Chalobah in the middle, with Edwards, Edun (or another) and Nolan (his inclusion is under question from me). I Chalobah had done OK, he can sometimes give the ball away but hes learning and I felt he looked a good presence in the middle. Also for me, probably the most questionable of all is to be playing Spence ahead of Donacien, I get that we have to leave one of the loanees out but for me it wouldn't be him, I missed the Blackburn game but all the games I have seen he has looked pretty decent and solid. Ive never rated Spence and I think he has looked terrible in the last couple of games to be honest, especially against Hull.

Weve had some bad luck along the way losing Toto and Edun to suspensions but were changing too much all the time. Whilst we didn't win any of the opening games they were tight and we looked like we could get a result with a bit more cohesion, but if we change things up every game we will never get there. Lets go back to basics, work out our best 11 and stock with it for a while, for me that 11 at this moment in time would not include Nolan, I just don't feel like hes ready just yet, just my opinion though, hopefully he goes and scores the winner tomorrow night!

[Tangfastic]

Cheers for that, Tangfastic.

What’s worrying is the last person stumbling about in desperation was Paul, the Jewell of Porn. And we all know how that ended.

McCarthy back at ITFC , January 3rd?

Don’t think Mick back here as manager is on the cards. Too much bad blood. But he must enjoying his reputation enhanced in his absence. It’s like Bru and Sears became better players when they weren’t picked .... Mick is now looking a far better manager out of the game. I reckon he’ll get a job in October or November... that’s usually when clubs start firing.

[Charnwood]

McCarthy will get a job at any one of the three Championship Clubs struggling in the relegation zone after the Christmas period.

He will negotiate a huge £1m + bonus for saving them and finish the season mid table.