Ncfc accounts

[hallamblue]

Andy you’ll understand these won’t you?

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

Not sure if it their full club accounts as it says academy… but can’t find any for norwich city fc Ltd .

I’m only looking coz Mike told me he’d heard they were £66m in debt . These accounts don’t look good but I don’t really “ do” book keeping lol


https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/569333/are ... -skint/#18

Well they’re talking about it on twtd now. Quoting a debt this season of over £70m (from £65m last season) . All being kept quiet though isn’t it . If it’d had been us BBC narwich and About Narwich would be doing wall to wall
coverage. Well I hope they suffer like we did the utter arse holes.

[Bluemike]

They released their accounts, 76 Million in debt , but trying to make it sound better as apparently there is a parachute payment and player sales not included in them, either way they have replaced us as the paupers of East Anglia and don't have a pot to p*ss in, no money for new signings and no real saleable assets. Shame.

[Mauswara]

They released their accounts, 76 Million in debt , but trying to make it sound better as apparently there is a parachute payment and player sales not included in them, either way they have replaced us as the paupers of East Anglia and don't have a pot to p*ss in, no money for new signings and no real saleable assets. Shame.

Any hope of a points deduction?

[Bluemike]

They could go down without one lol

[hallamblue]

I think the writings bern on the wall for sometime though. This American bit part investor buying up shares off Smith. She had hung into total control for years not listening to any offers . I think her hand is being forced by financial problems now. She’d be well rid of the football club tbh. It’s a mega rich consortium game now.

[Bluemike]

On the financials, I would say we're definitely worse off. For the first time in this century, the club has fewer assets than liabilities. The club is effectively insolvent. Now this isn't a big deal in the world of football as most clubs outside the Premier League are insolvent, but it is significant for Norwich which has historically had to balance the books. Net debt is higher than revenue for the first time since 2011 (i.e. post League 1). Wages as a percentage of turnover (and wages plus amortisation) is actually worse than those seasons where we held to randsom, lumbered with players like Naismith.

You've pointed out that some of the loans are accounted for with this years' revenue - but equally that is revenue that can't be spent on financing this years' operations. £31m of broadcast revenues, that is some 40% of this years', likely higher, revenue, will go towards paying that debt. So even with players sales more belt tightening is required.

Granted, the facilities are much better - that can be seen in the numbers (as an accountant, I, completely unbiasedly of course, think the numbers can tell you almost everything!). In the McNally era capital expenditure (capex) was consistently lower than depreciation (i.e. the club were wearing down the assets) - thus we had leaky conservatories. The past six years, the club have invested more than depreciation. Similarly, capex as a perctange of revenue has averaged around 8% of revenue, in the ten years prior it was 2%. However, I will point back to 'virtuous / vicious' circle. The proposition for players joining Norwich two or three years ago is definitely different to now - great facilities or not.

On transfer business, I think we are probably talking across each other. You are spot on that we've sold a lot of academy players for good money. I think I've said that many times. Webber has done a great job on getting some great fees (and those are even better with hindsight). But I stress again, a big part of the club's strategy has been signing young players with potential, to improve their value and sell on for a profit. This sadly hasn't happened outside the few examples we've discussed. That's not to say our transfer business overall has been bad - I think the opposite! Though, the transfers in the last Premier League season (and to some extent the season before) were poor. That is an issue, because even 500k disappears into the ether of a Tzolis / Rashica / Placheta / Hugil. We have done a great job in loan fees (which I noted last year) - £6m in the Prem season, £1m last year.

You ask, very importantly are there any other clubs following this model. The answer is probably not! @Parma Ham's gone mouldy has written many excellent digests on this. There's two very obvious reasons: (i) most clubs have rich benefactors that bankroll their club - Norwich does not; and (ii) it's very hard! Norwich have done a great job at competing with limited resources. However, arguably one and a half bad seasons and the club is insolvent with nearly six figures of debt. We've had to resort to a distressed debt hedge fund manager to loan money at 11% (though I believe he's benevolent)! It's a game of extremely thin margins and it can go wrong very quickly!

Saw this post from one of the more sensible Norwich fans, thought it might interest you Hallam and help answer some of your original post.

[hallamblue]

Thanks Mike. Where did you find that?

It’s been a steady decline for them I think. The PL is tough and only favours the top 5 big clubs, but I’d challenge his comment they have done well in that arena. When you compare them to smaller or same sized clubs like Brentford, Burnley, Forest, BHA? All seem to fair better.

I don’t know the numbers but gif every promotion to the PL a club gets something like £200m and on relegation up until recently they got another £100m failure money (as McCarthy once called it).

So narwich have had 3 maybe 4 PL promotions in the last 20 years. So that’s close to £1bn income. Their squad is now the worst it’s ever been, but they “have a nice training facility”. They seemed to target overseas ( cheaper) players because they couldn’t attract quality players from the UK or simply couldn’t afford them. But these other PL I’ve mentioned appear to have done, or they’ve got more out of the insured they have recruited.

I realise the PL is a privileged club frankly snd ncfc have dabbled in it several times. But they’ve never gone in to establish themselves for some reason. And mid they appear to be sliding font they. As the Budgie accountant states it’s “fine margins”, but are they really as well run as they do often proclaim themselves to be?

Town ad we all know, got stuffed because of the loss of digital tv money at the same point we were relegated in our 2nd season. I often wonder if we’d have clung onto our PL status had we not been given that UEFA slot via the winners of the Fair Play League? What a joke that was eh.

As yeah Ive rambled, sorry! Snd thanks gif posting that info . If doesn’t look too good for them does it and I do ask myself is the Premier League all it’s cracked up to be snd even worth it! So many clubs fall foul of chasing that Mega bucks roulette wheel…. Are we likely to follow suit??

[hallamblue]

Ps I know many on here don’t seem to be interested in talking about anything norwich , but I do keep an eye on their fortunes from afar. I don’t ever go on their forums , I’m not that fixated. But as our fiercest, closest, rivals I don’t see any harm in having an interest in what they’re up to ….

[marko69]

Wouldn't be normal if the “rivals” weren’t being regularly chatted about. Hibs fans talk more about Hearts than Hibs every day, and it is definitely vice-versa over on their forums, big time. (Weirdos )

[Mauswara]

Interesting post Mike. Must admit I had a wee grunt at this bit

We've had to resort to a distressed debt hedge fund manager to loan money at 11% (though I believe he's benevolent)!

[number 9]

Ps I know many on here don’t seem to be interested in talking about anything norwich , but I do keep an eye on their fortunes from afar. I don’t ever go on their forums , I’m not that fixated. But as our fiercest, closest, rivals I don’t see any harm in having an interest in what they’re up to ….

Yeah I’m one of those ‘don’t give a toss about NCFC finances’! Maybe you can start a thread on something meaningful, like will ITFC go up?

[LizinSpain]

Ps I know many on here don’t seem to be interested in talking about anything norwich , but I do keep an eye on their fortunes from afar. I don’t ever go on their forums , I’m not that fixated. But as our fiercest, closest, rivals I don’t see any harm in having an interest in what they’re up to ….

This has been an eye opener for me! I knew they were in trouble financially but didn't realise how bad as, like you, I don't go on any of their forums as I have far better things to do.

Much as I'm looking forward to kicking their butts twice this season, I won't shed a single tear if they go down! #coyb