The wonder of VAR - what a joke

[Bluemike]

Well they exceeded their own incompetence last night in the PSG - Newcastle game, it beggsrs belief, so much so the VAR officials have been stood down, it could cost Newcastle qualification and Millions, it really is unacceptable. This sham of a system is causing far more issues than any Clive Thomas could ever do. I hate the thing, puts me off the Premier League even more with each passing week.

[hallamblue]

It’s all down to “ interpretation” of the event isn’t it. Why someone not referring the game can have a say over what’s happened in the pitch beggars belief really. I think the spontaneity in decision making has been lost , and the events as they happen are way over scrutinised now. Linesmen are no longer utilised and the game has moved away from officials on the pitch. It’s become a complete farce.

Get rid of VAR!

[Ricco]

Wow, thanks for drawing my attention to this and making me angry Mike

EDIT: I'll just add to this TLDR moaning post by saying fine, watch it in slow more, but I think that the refs should be made to watch the incident full speed from a couple of angles as well before making a decision. There is no way you watch that handball full speed and think it's a penalty.

It works in Tennis, it works in Cricket, have an appeal system. In this instance PSG would have called the ref to look at it, the Referee wouldn't feel the same pressure as 'oh my colleagues want me to look at something, maybe I probably give it in that case' and so would have been far more likely to make an unbiased correct decision.

I feel like I'm just going to continue to shout about this until they change things or I die.

- Each team starts the match with 1 appeal
- Only the manager or team captain can trigger an appeal
- If you're successful in the appeal you keep it, otherwise you lose it

I cannot see a major flaw in that and I can guarantee it's better and fairer than the current system by a mile.

Offsides:

The chest is used as the marker in running races and why not football? It's a good indicator of your centre of mass and removes the vagueness of having your fringe, leg, shoelace or testicle offside.

All players have that bit of tech between their shoulder blades these days, either that can be incorporated, or you can have a few small reflectors on the shirts like they do in the film industry, with various cameras a players exact location can be known at any time. It's instant, it removes human error. In a global trillion pound business, how they have not developed something like this is staggering to me.

[Bluemike]

Good suggestion, sadly I cannot look beyond scrapping the whole thing completely, its a farce.

And now !!!! It get worse, trialling sin bins next season too, possibly good in theory but with our incompetent officials it will be hit and miss with this too. I suppose we have to change our bloody dug outs again as Sam Morsy will need his own sodding seat in the sin bin, a bit like your own parking space. Football is becoming a farce.

[Ricco]

Good suggestion, sadly I cannot look beyond scrapping the whole thing completely, its a farce.

And now !!!! It get worse, trialling sin bins next season too, possibly good in theory but with our incompetent officials it will be hit and miss with this too. I suppose we have to change our bloody dug outs again as Sam Morsy will need his own sodding seat in the sin bin, a bit like your own parking space. Football is becoming a farce.

Sin bins?!! Ridiculous. The sport's core essence is in it's simplicity which creates it's flowing non-stop nature, we should be removing complexity, not adding it. Want a game that stops every 10 seconds? Go watch the NFL...

On tech, I know your feelings to bin it all, but I think it's here to stay, not as it is because it's a joke, but technology is so powerful now and only increasing in power, there's no getting rid of it.

[number 9]

Offsides:

The chest is used as the marker in running races and why not football? It's a good indicator of your centre of mass and removes the vagueness of having your fringe, leg, shoelace or testicle offside.

All players have that bit of tech between their shoulder blades these days, either that can be incorporated, or you can have a few small reflectors on the shirts like they do in the film industry, with various cameras a players exact location can be known at any time. It's instant, it removes human error. In a global trillion pound business, how they have not developed something like this is staggering to me.

Yeah, they can call it the nipple rule.

John: Well it looks like he's pumping his chest over the line in that replay.
Graham: Yes, but I can't tell if his nipple is crossing the line.
John: They're taking a very close look at this one.
Graham: Yes, and the colder weather could possibly affect the decision.

[Shed on tour]

Watched the Newcastle game last night and the penalty decision was an absolute joke. I see they now want to bring in VAR for corners, free-kicks and second yellow cards. Get ready for 6am kickoffs so that the the game can be completed by 5pm after the delay for all the VAR decisions.
How to destroy the best sport in the world.

[marko69]

- Each team starts the match with 1 appeal
- Only the manager or team captain can trigger an appeal
- If you're successful in the appeal you keep it, otherwise you lose it

This is a good idea and its ok for Tennis & Cricket where they have "THE EYE" on --->> the ball , but can't see it for the fast, contact sport of football. Just way too subjective. Look at the Aberdeen v Sevco game at the weekend and Sevco's 94th minute penalty decision. It's right down the middle of people saying it was a penalty, and people saying its not.Send that to an appeal box --->> could be a stalemate. Great idea but can't see it working in football.

[marko69]

How to destroy the best sport in the world.

WHAT? It's not in Aussie Rules is it?

[Shed on tour]

How to destroy the best sport in the world.

WHAT? It's not in Aussie Rules is it?

When I heard them talking about the AFL on the tv I thought they were referring to when you had AFL and NFL teams.

[Cabanas Blue]

I did not like VAR from the start,, the referee and officials make mistakes but they can often even themselves out during the season I say scrap VAR it's ruining Football.

[marko69]

How to destroy the best sport in the world.

WHAT? It's not in Aussie Rules is it?

When I heard them talking about the AFL on the tv I thought they were referring to when you had AFL and NFL teams.

[Ricco]

- Each team starts the match with 1 appeal
- Only the manager or team captain can trigger an appeal
- If you're successful in the appeal you keep it, otherwise you lose it

This is a good idea and its ok for Tennis & Cricket where they have "THE EYE" on --->> the ball , but can't see it for the fast, contact sport of football. Just way too subjective. Look at the Aberdeen v Sevco game at the weekend and Sevco's 94th minute penalty decision. It's right down the middle of people saying it was a penalty, and people saying its not.Send that to an appeal box --->> could be a stalemate. Great idea but can't see it working in football.

Yeah, but we already have that subjective rubbish how it is There would just be less of it, and that's the beauty of the appeal, either risk it on that 50/50 or try and save it for a stonewall. I just can't see a better way, it's either that or not at all in my opinion and the latter is never going to happen.

[Ricco]

Yeah, they can call it the nipple rule.

John: Well it looks like he's pumping his chest over the line in that replay.
Graham: Yes, but I can't tell if his nipple is crossing the line.
John: They're taking a very close look at this one.
Graham: Yes, and the colder weather could possibly affect the decision.

Could be a little controversial in the ladies game

[valleyroad]

VAR is the consequence of not accepting that referees and assistant referees are human and make mistakes.
Constant replays from multiple angles, freeze frames or one frame at a time to show a wrong decison.
So..... what you end up with is the shambles of VAR.
Now we have constant questioning of VAR also.
Its only going to get worse.

[Bluemike]

It definitely will get worse

[marko69]

- Each team starts the match with 1 appeal
- Only the manager or team captain can trigger an appeal
- If you're successful in the appeal you keep it, otherwise you lose it

This is a good idea and its ok for Tennis & Cricket where they have "THE EYE" on --->> the ball , but can't see it for the fast, contact sport of football. Just way too subjective. Look at the Aberdeen v Sevco game at the weekend and Sevco's 94th minute penalty decision. It's right down the middle of people saying it was a penalty, and people saying its not.Send that to an appeal box --->> could be a stalemate. Great idea but can't see it working in football.

Yeah, but we already have that subjective rubbish how it is There would just be less of it, and that's the beauty of the appeal, either risk it on that 50/50 or try and save it for a stonewall. I just can't see a better way, it's either that or not at all in my opinion and the latter is never going to happen.

Yep, good idea re that choice to appeal a 50/50 or a stonewall …… but, that too is subjective amongst the players ;

“Why’d do appeal that, captain?”
“I thought it was a …….,..”
“Yeah well you thought wrong, dude!”

[Ricco]

This is a good idea and its ok for Tennis & Cricket where they have "THE EYE" on --->> the ball , but can't see it for the fast, contact sport of football. Just way too subjective. Look at the Aberdeen v Sevco game at the weekend and Sevco's 94th minute penalty decision. It's right down the middle of people saying it was a penalty, and people saying its not.Send that to an appeal box --->> could be a stalemate. Great idea but can't see it working in football.

Yeah, but we already have that subjective rubbish how it is There would just be less of it, and that's the beauty of the appeal, either risk it on that 50/50 or try and save it for a stonewall. I just can't see a better way, it's either that or not at all in my opinion and the latter is never going to happen.

Yep, good idea re that choice to appeal a 50/50 or a stonewall …… but, that too is subjective amongst the players ;

“Why’d do appeal that, captain?”
“I thought it was a …….,..”
“Yeah well you thought wrong, dude!”

But that is fine, team squabbling is funny on occasion in the Cricket. Its just far better than the squabbling being between supporters, pundits, referees etc, that's beyond tiresome!

[marko69]

But that is fine, team squabbling is funny on occasion in the Cricket. Its just far better than the squabbling being between supporters, pundits, referees etc, that's beyond tiresome!

Amongst pundits is always entertaining. Especially with Mikey Stewart up here. What a state he gets himself into

[valleyroad]

Interesting read on VAR from Scottish perspective.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/23 ... cNHq0w71Wc

Scottish football would test the patience of a saint at the best of times, but if there's one topic that brings out its worst in the culture then it's surely refereeing.

While fans of every club have suspicion referees have it in for them, the heightened stakes in Glasgow take this to another level. With the added cultural baggage that comes with the two major clubs and the intense glare of a media that pounces on every single crumb that drops from the dinner table, it's an extremely challenging environment to attempt to apply the, often subjective, laws of the game.

Look at Barry Robson’s rash, emotional reaction to the penalty given for a bone-headed shirt pull in yesterday's match between Aberdeen and Rangers. He knows this kind of foul is being looked at by VAR on a game-by-game basis but he couldn’t quite bring himself to shake the faux sense of injustice as he gave his post-match reaction. He even added a hint of conspiracy for good measure by saying: “It doesn’t look good, another VAR decision going Rangers’ way in the 90th minute again. What I feel, I can’t say.”

Amidst this kind of infantile innuendo, and Robison isn’t the first to reach for it, who'd want to be a referee? Seriously, there must be a barely concealed masochistic streak running through every single one of them.

Even the watering holes they frequent are scrutinised with a level of forensic detail that most top politicians don’t have to navigate.

Imagine having your integrity questioned by barely informed pundits who demonstrate a bizarre belligerence toward reading the actual laws of the game. Some of them will argue about what the rule should be rather than what it is. Others base their opinions on what referees might have allowed 30 years ago. More still are simply seeking a controversial bonfire to keep themselves relevant.

It is in this hysteria, that the men in black have to go about their business. So perhaps they are entitled to be slightly defensive.

In spite of this, the Scottish press was invited to a largely off-the-record meeting at Hampden last week to give an update on how VAR has been going. What was clear from a meeting that lasted nearly two and a half hours was that Crawford Allan, the head of refereeing is trying to be more open and modernise how his department communicates.

The previous incumbent, the late John Fleming gave the distinct impression he could quote the last 30 years of IFAB laws off the top of his head but was not someone who seemed terribly predisposed to opening his department up for scrutiny. Allan, by comparison, is taking steps to change perceptions of a closed shop.

Is it enough? No. The SFA can still do more. It would be straightforward and helpful, for example, to release the laws cited in key decisions after games to add clarity. You can understand why they are reluctant though, such is the hysteria - as with Robson, often ramped up by the suggestion of conspiracy - that can surround decisions.

READ MORE: Philippe Clement backs 'honest' VAR and makes xG dominance claim

There are real-world consequences in these scenarios. Many current and former top-class officials tell stories that make your toes curl. Why add more oxygen to a bonfire raging out of control?

At the, at times fraught, meeting, Allan was in command of his brief and both he and the similarly composed and articulate young referee Nick Walsh showed patience with the myriad questions fired in their direction. They demonstrated the steady improvements that have come in the use of VAR with 10 seconds shaved off the average on-field review decision. The SFA say that 90.5 per cent of decisions from the man in the middle are correct with VAR taking that to 97.8 per cent.

It had been correctly highlighted previously that these figures were all well and good but there was always the sense that the governing body were 'marking their own homework'. This has been addressed with the formation of an Independent Review Panel of experts who looked at the 24 on-field reviews plus any other incidents they requested to see. This panel gave a higher figure of 99.3 per cent accuracy, suggesting the SFA are erring on the side of caution with their numbers.

It didn't impress BBC pundit Rory Loy, a vocal presence in the meeting. He said on Sportsound: "With the stats and the figures it was all very tedious. It was fine but you don't really get anywhere I don't think. I did take a few things from it but overall it was a bit hard to listen to for two and a half hours."

Having spent time to detail everything, knowing any failure to give out the right level of information would be met with the suggestion they are hiding unpleasant truths, the referees were caught between a rock and a hard place with that criticism. While scrutiny of match decisions is a valid part of the media, in Scotland we absolutely get the balance wrong.

Running through much of the debate is a lack of empathy for how truly impossible the role is. Having to concentrate so intensely while the emotions of a full stadium swirl around you requires incredible concentration. To be cool-headed and rational amid the chaos is a skilful feat. It’s beyond time for this to be more readily acknowledged.

The truth is that Scotland’s refs have implemented VAR in a reasonably successful way despite inevitable ups and downs. The inherent flaws in the system itself should not be used against the governing body’s implementation. Compare and contrast with the level of noise in England for example, where the system has been in operation for much longer.

Few will recognise this truth. When criticising a team or manager, there’s often a consequence. People will disagree, take you to task, maybe even call you out. With referees it’s consequence free. Wire in! Its a profession where it must seem that nobody has your back.

After 150 minutes of discussion and debate, my main thought was of how these diligent, credible guys, who endeavour to improve every day must feel amidst some of the inanity that plays out on the back of their work.

Who’d be a referee? Not me.

[marko69]

Yep, very good piece on it and I would've loved to have been a fly on the wall at that meeting.

There’s no getting away from it that a foul happened in that Dons / Sevco game in the 94th min …….., but……, (opinion) VAR was brought in for (I thought) blatant pen decisions and offsides. Its almost like EVERYTHING is being scrutinised. The game in my opinion is being affected both by cutting down it being a contact sport and interfering with the flow.

But that was a Sevco pen…….. no ref would’ve saw it though. So err…… VAR is good.

NO……, var is terrible.

sh*t, cant decide.

Where’s that fence.

[valleyroad]

Yep, very good piece on it and I would've loved to have been a fly on the wall at that meeting.

There’s no getting away from it that a foul happened in that Dons / Sevco game in the 94th min …….., but……, (opinion) VAR was brought in for (I thought) blatant pen decisions and offsides. Its almost like EVERYTHING is being scrutinised. The game in my opinion is being affected both by cutting down it being a contact sport and interfering with the flow.

But that was a Sevco pen…….. no ref would’ve saw it though. So err…… VAR is good.

NO……, var is terrible.

sh*t, cant decide.

Where’s that fence.

Aye we are experiencing it first hand up here in Scotland.
Its like the other week when we scored that last minute equaliser against Hibees.
I was celebrating but had in the back of my mind, VAR !!!
Just not the same anymore.
The pen we got in that game was a joke too. No player, supporter or referee had the slightest incline of penalty then VAR comes along !

[marko69]

Yep, how often does that happen……. Tons.

One week, steven mclean raised his hand 4 minutes after an incident in a game.,….. everyone was like , “Eh? Whats happening here?!”
Really properly farcical at times.

[arana peligrosa]

holding any game up and time-wasting bullshit one can't abide. Years back there'd be regular games going along at their own pace while now you got delays left and right while players and officials wander off the field viewing replays and monitors while in the meantime Jimmy Hoffa could be feasibly located. It's just a damn distraction you can do without, curse the day the thing was implemented but times change. It's unfortunate and regrettable but there's not always much you can do.

Questionable decisions in the game should be ideally left as they are / were. It adds more intrigue into a contest, maybe if you go back in time to the Maradona hand ball incident, Hurst third against West Germany, infamous Leeds / WBA offside incident from the 1970's for example, it would be a shame to see such events shred to ribbons by modern technology debates and overrules etc. Just an idea.

[marko69]

holding any game up and time-wasting bullshit one can't abide. Years back there'd be regular games going along at their own pace while now you got delays left and right while players and officials wander off the field viewing replays and monitors while in the meantime Jimmy Hoffa could be feasibly located. It's just a damn distraction you can do without, curse the day the thing was implemented but times change. It's unfortunate and regrettable but there's not always much you can do.

Questionable decisions in the game should be ideally left as they are / were. It adds more intrigue into a contest, maybe if you go back in time to the Maradona hand ball incident, Hurst third against West Germany, infamous Leeds / WBA offside incident from the 1970's for example, it would be a shame to see such events shred to ribbons by modern technology debates and overrules etc. Just an idea.

Genuine laugh out loud. Superb.

[Bluemike]

holding any game up and time-wasting bullshit one can't abide. Years back there'd be regular games going along at their own pace while now you got delays left and right while players and officials wander off the field viewing replays and monitors while in the meantime Jimmy Hoffa could be feasibly located. It's just a damn distraction you can do without, curse the day the thing was implemented but times change. It's unfortunate and regrettable but there's not always much you can do.

Questionable decisions in the game should be ideally left as they are / were. It adds more intrigue into a contest, maybe if you go back in time to the Maradona hand ball incident, Hurst third against West Germany, infamous Leeds / WBA offside incident from the 1970's for example, it would be a shame to see such events shred to ribbons by modern technology debates and overrules etc. Just an idea.

Couldn't agree more !!,

[valleyroad]

holding any game up and time-wasting bullshit one can't abide. Years back there'd be regular games going along at their own pace while now you got delays left and right while players and officials wander off the field viewing replays and monitors while in the meantime Jimmy Hoffa could be feasibly located. It's just a damn distraction you can do without, curse the day the thing was implemented but times change. It's unfortunate and regrettable but there's not always much you can do.

Questionable decisions in the game should be ideally left as they are / were. It adds more intrigue into a contest, maybe if you go back in time to the Maradona hand ball incident, Hurst third against West Germany, infamous Leeds / WBA offside incident from the 1970's for example, it would be a shame to see such events shred to ribbons by modern technology debates and overrules etc. Just an idea.

Couldn't agree more but it will never happen.
I actually think that VAR was introduced as we weren't far from legal challenge by BIG clubs over decisions as money has corrupted the game.
Next corruption coming along is European Super League.

[hallamblue]

I really hope this European duper league happens and the so called “ Big Five” all did off to it and leave the game for good in this country. Now that would be good for the game!

[marko69]

I really hope this European duper league happens and the so called “ Big Five” all did off to it and leave the game for good in this country. Now that would be good for the game!

You missed out the word “Super” , Hallam.

Its officially going to be named the European Super Duper League.

[marko69]

We all know VAR notice things like big toes being offside…….. , but what about this? Anyone reckon this would be a 3 or 4 minute review?

https://youtube.com/shorts/HZEitEt3gic? ... qcUcfoWS5K