A case for the defence

[AzzurroMark]

I was initially going to reply to the comments about Axel in another thread, but having looked at some stats & compared him with other Central defenders I thought I'd start a new thread on a hotly discussed subject. For the record the statistics come from the ITFC website and are for this season only.
As a disclaimer, I know Stats can be manipulated to furnish any particular argument required. Likewise they do not give the full picture, such as where a player is out of position, caught ball watching and therefore not involved in a duel/battle etc. On that basis pull these figures apart to justify your case for a player's inclusion.

As I was going to post about Axel, I shall use his stats initially. My argument for why he would be included (prior to reading the other stats) was his high pass completion percentage of 90%, the best (defender) in our squad. In a team which likes to play out from the back that is a priceless quality when being pressed.
Some of the percentages I found really surprised me (but please refer to my disclaimer above), especially those for Edmundson!

Axel - Minutes played 538. Duels won 21 Tackles won 53% Headers won 62% Pass completion 90%

Wolfenden - MP 2520 DW 84 TW 63% HW 60% PC 89%

Burgess - MP 2310 DW 124 TW 70% HW 73% PC 82%

Edmundson - MP 900 DW 49 TW 73% HW 68% PC 86%

For the record and for comparison means, the stats for our wingbacks (?) which will no doubt differ because they are more forward ranging players.

Clarke MP 2131 DW 112 TW 54% HW 60% PC 81%

Davis MP 2554 DW 114 TW 54% HW 50% PC 80%

Williams MP 947 DW 80 TW 58% HW 69% PC 82%

The comparative stats for our perceived most consistent midfielder, Morsy gives an idea of how his role plays out in the middle of the park
MP 2496 PC 86% TW 52%. That last figure actually surprised me in ways, especially when I saw that Luongo beats that with 54%.

What does the above tell me?
As a Left footed player Burgess has to start and his stats are good too. Surprisingly if Edmundson could play as the right sided CB he would be my choice (and I am no fan of his). As it is we know the Burgess/Wolfenden combination appears to work well so the latter surely does enough, especially with a pass completion rate second only to Tuanzebe! As for Axel, of course as with any player, the more minutes you play in a team, the better your stats should hopefully get. There are certainly questions about his ability to start too many games though

[Bluemike]

A couple of things here, first off there are passes and passes, I could probably have a pass completion close to 100% if I played it safe all the time, personally I prefer the player who tries to thread that killer pass through to a striker to create a chance as opposed to a CB who taps it sideways 40 times to gain a yard.

The second thing, for those that love to have a pop at Harry Clarke from time to time, these stats suggest what I kind of believe anyway, and that is that he is a better defender than Leif Davis, Davis great going forward but just ok defensively.

Final thing, what stats won't show is how often Tuanzebe is caught floundering out of position, none more so than against Maidstone of all teams, struggling against non league opposition doesn't suggest to me he is good enough, not to mention his obvious lack of fitness to play many games.

Very interesting stats though.

[hallamblue]

Very interesting stats there, thanks for rooting them out.
.as Mike said, there's passes and there's passes. Someone posted on twtd just this week that Woolfie had something like 102 completed passes in a game, and hailed hom oncd again as some kind ov workd class defender and anyone who couldn't see his quality doesn't understand the game. I didn't bother to respond as I usually get loads of abuse. But what struck me about that stat was that it said nothing about the quality of that passing.

If you watch Woolfie, I'd suggest 99% of his passing is less than 6 yards in length, and almost entirely to his right, or back to the keeper. He does on occasions look forward and ping a medium length oass forward. He rarely runs forward with the ball ( committing yhd opposition), and rarely gets above a walking pace. Frankly anyone of us on here could probably fonthe same job!

Axel has played so little minutes to be almost impossible to compare him. Hes never been able to get ulbtobdpeed with competitive foitball, so he looks off the pace and has been caught out position as a result. Id put my house on a fully fit and up to speed Axel wiping the floor with this league.

However, despite his lack of competitive games, one of the things I first noticed about him was his direct running forward with the ball, at pace. He made things happen. He had an array of passes and rarely a square pass, but more an angled forward pass.

But all of the above is not " defending" in my book. And that's where I feel Axel is head and shoulders the better defender at this club. He's quicker, more aggressive, wins his headers (with power and direction) and has a physical presence in the box. It's such a shame that we will probably release him in the summer because he cannot cope with games physically. Some players can have all the skills but not the physical endurance for the modern game. We shall see.

[marko69]

A couple of things here, first off there are passes and passes, I could probably have a pass completion close to 100% if I played it safe all the time, personally I prefer the player who tries to thread that killer pass through to a striker to create a chance as opposed to a CB who taps it sideways 40 times to gain a yard.

The second thing, for those that love to have a pop at Harry Clarke from time to time, these stats suggest what I kind of believe anyway, and that is that he is a better defender than Leif Davis, Davis great going forward but just ok defensively.

Final thing, what stats won't show is how often Tuanzebe is caught floundering out of position, none more so than against Maidstone of all teams, struggling against non league opposition doesn't suggest to me he is good enough, not to mention his obvious lack of fitness to play many games.

Very interesting stats though.

I read this post and I cannot believe we were on opposite ends of that Freddie Ladapo spectrum ....., because that post is bang on the dosh. Witnessed plenty highlights and two full 90's this season and could not agree more re Clarke / Davis. I actually don't get the hype over Davis.

And Axel....... He's a liability in waiting.

[number 9]

Yes, very interesting stats indeed.

I agree the passing rates may be a bit ambiguous considering the quality of the passes. Edmundson is a very good CB, but his technical skills are lacking. He tends to panic when he has to pass or clear the ball when under pressure, and I think that's because he's not comfortable on the ball.

Woolfy is comfortable on the ball but lacks in physicality and aerial ability. He's much more comfortable with Burgess at his side because Burgess does more of the aerial and physical defending whereas Edmundson sometimes gets caught out and Woolfy has to back him up.

Axel is by far the most talented and experienced CB we have, unfortunately as has already been said his health situation may not be up to par for starting games regularly.

My opinion on Clarke varies, but it seems like he performs much better against slower opponents. I've always believed he's very good going forward. I can't really criticize Davis for his defensive shortfalls because he creates so many scoring opportunities with his crosses. Once again as I've stated before, I believe we need a midfielder to fall back when our WBs surge forward. I think Travis is perfect for that role and I don't really understand why he's not being played more regularly.

Finally, Morsy's stats are probably skewed because he attempts to make more attacking passes that may be intercepted by defenders.

[Bluemike]

Spot on regarding Morsy.

[AzzurroMark]

Great reading the replies so far and it is true, stats to a small degree can be taken with a pinch of salt.

Following Mike's first reply, I extracted some further pass completion information. Once again, what constitutes a short or long pass along with the efficacy of the said pass is open to interpretation.

So, long pass completion is as follows

Tuanzebe 22 (a rate of 1 long completed pass per 24 minutes)
Wolfenden 79 (1 per 32 minutes)
Burgess 90 (1 per 26 minutes)
Edmundson 45 (1 per 20 minutes).

So i have divided minutes played by completed long passes to get those figures. Once again they appear skewed as I find it difficult to believe Edmundson has the best per minutes played rating! Possibly it's because he has generally been in good form for the fewer appearances he's made. It's what is done with that long pass! It's pointless if a defender lumps a successful pass into the opposition corner area 94 minutes into a game. It's those like the one Burgess made to Davis at Swansea which are the telling ones.
Likewise, as Liz implies, I'd much rather see a defender marauding forward, which I think Axel has done, and Williams certainly did in the game against Preston. Those runs count for nothing in these stats sadly.

Finally, do you think I've got to much time on my hands today?

[hallamblue]

Yes!

[AzzurroMark]

Yes!