Ashton or Cook’s signings?

[hallamblue]

I know some of you don’t like twtd and won’t give it the time of day, but there are some good points raised on it from time to time.

The thread amongst other things talks about who really recruited the new players. By that I mean whose players were they really Cooks choice or Ashton’s ? The posters talk about how many of these players don’t seem to be able to cope with Cooks preferred system, so why would HE have targeted them. Many players were associated / known to Ashton under previous managers ….and so the chat goes on.


I’m only asking the Questions not stating any fact…… but

I’m starting to wonder if the Bristol fans moans about Ashton buying in loads of of players , spending money like water but which the manager can’t use well, MIGHT have a ring of truth to it..?


IF that has been the case, then we are no further forward because we will have replaced one ineffective squad, with yet another, and it will take any new manager at least a season but probably now two or more to sift through it and replace them. This requires TIME and as we know managers are not given that anymore. Potentially we ( Ashton?) could have got it wrong right from the start and so puts us on this current road which will take more time and money to correct?

If so then the Groundhog Day continues to blight this Club.

Anyway see what you think …

https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/524843/did ... -night/#34

[MasseyFerguson]

I think it's a fair question. The thing that sticks in my head is that Cook said when he came in that the squad was too big. It made no sense to me that we brought in so many new players. It was the opposite if what he seemed to want.

[Frosty]

Yeah I am sure most of us have pondered this question.

Up until recently we didn’t seem to have many issues scoring goals, unfortunately we were also good at letting goals in.

I am still not convinced our defence is of the quality it needs to be on a consistent basis. I am sure most of us on here have played team sports, when you know your side has a weakness in an area, you either try and cover that (which means being out of position yourself) or over time start losing a bit of faith in your own team and probably take the foot off the pedal yourself.

I think most of us felt during the recruitment phase we were over signing attackers, when we really needed that one commanding and experienced centre back. If this is addressed in the Jan window I still think we have a better side than last season.

Of course it maybe as simple as a formation tweak, but that doesn’t usually make a quantum change to the back fours role.

[Ricco]

It's my opinion that Ashton and Cook both got excited at the prospect of being able to wipe a clubs first team squad, hire their own and swim in all the adulation as that side got promoted. Baby, rubber duck, the whole works was chucked out with the bathwater and I think a lot of that was because of ego.

I'd imagine it was a combination of minds picking players, but I have no doubt that Ashton got strongly involved considering some of his ties with the players. Normally I would have very few worries at this point, but from what I have heard of opinions of Ashton, I now have loads of worries. Perhaps in future with a better recruitment setup he'll step back.

One thing that did catch my interest in the summer that I've not really seen talked about, was that the club wanted to create a recruitment/analytical team, or something to that affect, that crunched numbers and worked with the scouts to find viable players.

- Firstly that shocked the hell out of me that a club of this size doesn't already have a well establish department like that, no wonder we're heading down as Brentford head up.

- Secondly, Ashton mentioned that this wouldn't be around for the first transfer window and therefore I can only assume that our summer recruitment was based on opinion, and that scares me, especially considering it wasn't a 4 or 5 player window, but 19.

I know how biased and wrong I can be about players and their ability/potentially, it only makes sense that the same would apply to Cook and Ashton, though I'd hope to a slightly lesser level because of their experience.

God help us.

[Charnwood]

In truth I guess we’ll never know but my money would be on Paul Cook having a few more players than he really wanted, that would certainly make sense and maybe the reason some got little no game time. Paul Cook doesn’t go from being a successful manager to a dog end over just a few months either, I think something fishy has been going on behind the scenes at Portman Road for a while and it may well have been a power battle between him and Ashton which he lost.

[Ricco]

I think it's a fair question. The thing that sticks in my head is that Cook said when he came in that the squad was too big. It made no sense to me that we brought in so many new players. It was the opposite if what he seemed to want.

Oh and this ^ so much this. One of the first things Cook said was the squad was waaaaay too large, and yet here we find ourselves again with 20 attacking options and no way to keep them all happy and confident in their place.

[Kerry Blue]

When the players were being signed we were so excited by the quality we were signing like Harper for example and he can't get into what is a very poor side and many others that looked like Championship class but have disappointed, then look what Wigan have done with 17 new players without spending as much as we have I would think, something is very wrong I'm sorry to say.

[hallamblue]

It's my opinion that Ashton and Cook both got excited at the prospect of being able to wipe a clubs first team squad, hire their own and swim in all the adulation as that side got promoted. Baby, rubber duck, the whole works was chucked out with the bathwater and I think a lot of that was because of ego.

I'd imagine it was a combination of minds picking players, but I have no doubt that Ashton got strongly involved considering some of his ties with the players. Normally I would have very few worries at this point, but from what I have heard of opinions of Ashton, I now have loads of worries. Perhaps in future with a better recruitment setup he'll step back.

One thing that did catch my interest in the summer that I've not really seen talked about, was that the club wanted to create a recruitment/analytical team, or something to that affect, that crunched numbers and worked with the scouts to find viable players.

- Firstly that shocked the hell out of me that a club of this size doesn't already have a well establish department like that, no wonder we're heading down as Brentford head up.

- Secondly, Ashton mentioned that this wouldn't be around for the first transfer window and therefore I can only assume that our summer recruitment was based on opinion, and that scares me, especially considering it wasn't a 4 or 5 player window, but 19.

I know how biased and wrong I can be about players and their ability/potentially, it only makes sense that the same would apply to Cook and Ashton, though I'd hope to a slightly lesser level because of their experience.

God help us.

Indeed!

Furthermore Ashton has recruited no fewer than FOUR previous colleagues from his time at Bristol. Whilst I appreciate we all go with “what we know”, perhaps it’s a case of jobs for the boys at the higher level. Cook did exactly the same for his backroom staff. A worrying trait especially when it clearly isn’t working.

[hallamblue]

I think it's a fair question. The thing that sticks in my head is that Cook said when he came in that the squad was too big. It made no sense to me that we brought in so many new players. It was the opposite if what he seemed to want.

Which makes you think they were more Ashton’s targets , and not the manager’s. Which is a big worry if that’s the case.

[Bluemike]

But all these players said they came cus of Cook not Ashton, im not convinced there's anything happened on the players side of things that Cook didn't want or orchestrate, the Only one that could have been done over Cook's head is Celina, never got that signing at all.

[barmy billy]

In truth I guess we’ll never know but my money would be on Paul Cook having a few more players than he really wanted, that would certainly make sense and maybe the reason some got little no game time. Paul Cook doesn’t go from being a successful manager to a dog end over just a few months either, I think something fishy has been going on behind the scenes at Portman Road for a while and it may well have been a power battle between him and Ashton which he lost.

I think your last sentence is probably spot on & ties in with what I said a couple of days ago, that there may have been an issue of egos' going on. Likewise, I recall Paul Cook saying he liked to work with a small squad, which flies in the face of the number of players purchased.

Has Paul Cook been Ashton's fall guy, in which case will his successor be the Manager or just a Chief Coach?

I am very wary of Ashton & his motives.

[AzzurroMark]

the Only one that could have been done over Cook's head is Celina, never got that signing at all.

I was reading through this topic and thinking all the while about Celina's signing. While i recall comments akin to PC "selling it to Bersant", my reading of various reports gave me a strong impression that this was definitely Ashton's signing! Ashton was waxing lyrical about it (perhaps understandable) to the point i felt that it was dream signing, one that i am sure PC would still have been happy with possibly.
Also the Jacob's deal, what happened there? A player, albeit with injury issues, who had played under Cook, was all of a sudden at the twelth hour abandoned in favour of Edwards, a player from one of Ashton's old clubs, WBA. I now wonder if Jacobs, even with his recent history, would have brought more to the table than Edwards?
I would say look at the squad and at those who Cookie had worked with before, along with positions that needed strengthening on top of that (i.e.Edmundsen). Any player overload on top of that i would personally suspect Ashton to be behind! I believe PC had always preferred to work with a smaller squad so maybe this was the major downfall?

[AzzurroMark]

Just looking at the 19 players signed, while purely my own opinions and totally speculative, here is where i feel they fit on the "who instigated their signing" scale

Walton PC
Hladky - either
Edmundsen- PC
Burgess - PC
Penney - either
Coulsen - either
Morsy - PC
Evans - PC
Harper - MA
Edwards - MA
Celina - MA
Fraser - PC
Burns - PC
Aluko - either
Carroll - leaning more towards MA
Bonne - either
Piggott - either
Barry - MA
Chaplin - PC

For me the better performers definitely come from the PC camp (Burns, Chaplin and Morsy)! Where i can find no common ground which links a player specifically, i have gone for "either" as my option. Certainly PC would have been in the market for strikers, so i have no reason to believe they (Bonne & Piggott) were not PC targets originally! I feel MA might have been responsible for the "eye opening" signings which perhaps we would not have expected. Barry is a prime example as a player with Barcelona links and Jack Grealish comparisons!

Like i say, totally speculative but it has certainly given me food for thought on a squad which is overly bloated for a PC team. If you take out those i have marked down as MA signings, it certainly makes for the less congested midfield 3!

[ashfordblue]

I'll say one thing regarding future squad recruitments IF Neil Warnock is brought in to sort out this current squad he certainly won't want any interference from the CEO and he will state that very clearly it's his way or nothing, I have read the rumors that Mr. Ashton likes to stick his ore in on incoming players and somewhat team selections, if correct that has to stop immediately as this will bring in a toxic atmosphere in the management and to fans here, so these rumors of Ashton's interference from so many past clubs fans at Bristol City, West Brom, Watford, Wycombe, Oxford Utd could be factual, but with all the stated clubs he was brought in to turn around their fortunes of which he was very successful.

So as for a long-term new Manager, he could try for Aidy Boothroyd whose career has come on in leaps and bounds since his Watford days, with success as England's under 21s manager, so it wouldn't surprise me to see him come through the door here as he's very successful with youth squads and fairly similar to Our Bobby Robson in team building.

But in the short term, Neil Warnock could shape us up into a promotion challenging team.

[MasseyFerguson]

In truth I guess we’ll never know but my money would be on Paul Cook having a few more players than he really wanted, that would certainly make sense and maybe the reason some got little no game time. Paul Cook doesn’t go from being a successful manager to a dog end over just a few months either, I think something fishy has been going on behind the scenes at Portman Road for a while and it may well have been a power battle between him and Ashton which he lost.

The more I think about it the more this makes sense. Far more players than we need. Far more than Cook said he wanted to work with when he came in. I'm beginning to think he got lumbered with a bunch of players he didn't really want and he did lose a power struggle with Ashton. If it's true we are in big trouble.

[Ricco]

For me the better performers definitely come from the PC camp (Burns, Chaplin and Morsy)!

Burns was at Bristol City with Ashton, so I'd strongly expect that to be largely Ashton.

You could well be pretty close with the rest, Aluko always felt like an Ashton signing too, having said that, Ashton was part of a drive at Bristol City to only buy players aged 24 or under (or something to that effect), but I'm sure he saw the need for experience when completely refreshing a squad too.

[hallamblue]

If this Club goes down a “ coach “ route rather than a strong minded manager then I’d say that spells trouble ahead of you take the view that Ashton is pulling the punches and not the manager.

[AzzurroMark]

Burns was at Bristol City with Ashton, so I'd strongly expect that to be largely Ashton.

You could well be pretty close with the rest, Aluko always felt like an Ashton signing too, having said that, Ashton was part of a drive at Bristol City to only buy players aged 24 or under (or something to that effect), but I'm sure he saw the need for experience when completely refreshing a squad too.

I take that one back then . I guess as the first signing it could have been Ashton wanting to make a statement. Certainly Wes Burns is the best signing we have made.

[Dazzz67]

I did say when MA was appointed I had my cautions, especially as I know a few Bristol City boys and they didnt rate him highly. Yes he talks the talk, and he does do his job, impressive in build up to the new season, cannot fault him there. But I was told he does like his power and own way, this does now start to sound familiar and although I dont know his full history at BC and cannot elaborate further, PC could be a bit of a fall guy. PC was at fault and would not change things but I do not believe it is entirely his fault, espcially listening to MA announcing PC has gone, some wording sounds a little suspect, as a few have pointed out, maybe ive got it wrong.

Lets see what happens with the next appointment, be interesting to see.