Should Liverpool be able to defend their title?

Mork · Post by **Mork** » Thu May 26, 2005 12:29 pm

I say no. If qualifying for next season came AFTER last night, and Liverpool failed to qualify, nobody would be having this discussion. Any team, whatever their country, who missed out on Champions League because of Liverpools ill form in the Premier League, would be hurt financially, and punished for a problem caused by Liverpool failing to win 4th spot in England. The idea of Everton being denied CL football is just stupid, so Liverpool, I'm afraid, have to sit this one out. I suggest a big game next summer, whoever wins the CL in 2006, against Liverpool - have it at Wembley to decide the true Champions of Europe.

Mork · Post by **Mork** » Thu May 26, 2005 12:29 pm

Mork wrote:I say no. If qualifying for next season came AFTER last night, and Liverpool failed to qualify, nobody would be having this discuss. Any team, whatever their country, who missed out on Champions League because of Liverpools ill form in the Premier League, would be hurt financially, and punished for a problem caused by Liverpool failing to win 4th spot in England. The idea of Everton being denied CL football is just stupid, so Liverpool, I'm afraid, have to sit this one out. I suggest a big game next summer, whoever wins the CL in 2006, against Liverpool - have it at Wembley to decide the true Champions of Europe.

Er could someone add a no option, Im sure I did, but it didn't appear.

ExeCute · Post by **ExeCute** » Thu May 26, 2005 12:30 pm

shouldnt there be a no option ?

Jus · Post by **Jus** » Thu May 26, 2005 12:58 pm

If we all changed the rules to a game when we didn't like the result where would we be?

Facts are Liverpool knew the rules at the start of the season, and the fact they did not finish in the top four in the league is their own fault and nobody elses.

As for Everton, they have finished fourth so they are there on merit, there is no way in hell they should miss out, they have qualified under the rules therefore they should go through to the Champions League.

Else you have teams not bothering in the league if they're not sure they can qualify that way, and putting out weak teams just to try in the Champions League, and you'll get the farcical situation where they then qualify.

Whilst I agree the holders should go into next years competition, it's not in the rules, and until there is a time that it's in the rules, the club winning the Champions League should not go through.

I heard a Liverpool Spokesman this morning saying that because Liverpool were a big club with fantastic fans they deserve to go through more than many other clubs. Sorry, but that doesn't come into it.

As for letting them in at other teams expense, how is that fair? Another team has qualfied fair and square using the rules set out at the start of the season and is now going to miss out just because Liverpool failed domestically.

As I said Holders should go through automatically, but the facts are if Liverpool are good enough to win the European Cup, they should be good enough to finish in the top four in England.

In any case, some would argue the fact Liverpool finished fourth last year they shouldn't be in such a competition anyway whilst champions from other countries face a much harder route. But the Liverpool fans argument to that is, "well it's how the rules are so we abide by them and use them to our advantage, it's not our fault how the rules are."

But hang on, aren't they complaining now because they don't like the rules as they are at present? Yet they've happy enough to take them when they go in their advantage, but not against them.

Hypocrities.

itfc_rach · Post by **itfc_rach** » Thu May 26, 2005 1:04 pm

i think they should be given the chance to defend their title. uefa should give an automatic spot to the team who win-but its probably to late to change it now anyway.

Jus · Post by **Jus** » Thu May 26, 2005 1:07 pm

itfc_rach wrote:i think they should be given the chance to defend their title. uefa should give an automatic spot to the team who win-but its probably to late to change it now anyway.

All the people voting for at the expense of someone else

1) Who are you going to leave out
2) How are you going to explain it to them
3) Tell me how it's going to stand up in court when the club sues UEFA.

Number three should be especially interesting, because if it goes to court there is only going to be one way that it ends up and it certainly won't be in UEFA's favour.

toby · Post by **toby** » Thu May 26, 2005 1:18 pm

The thing is that no-one has to be excluded to allow Liverpool in next season, it's not like there's an even number of qualifiers at the moment.

Liverpool WILL be put in next season which may not be the correct decision sticking by the rules but I think it is morally correct.

Personally if I had my way only Chelsea (as Champions) and Liverpool (as holders) would qualify from England but then that would require the radical step of going back to the old European Cup format!

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Thu May 26, 2005 1:19 pm

No, they shouldn't be awarded for their lack of form in the premier league.

Hacaman · Post by **Hacaman** » Thu May 26, 2005 1:21 pm

Phil wrote:No, they shouldn't be awarded for their lack of form in the premier league.

Yeah that's right because finishing 4th in your domestic league makes it right to be in the CHAMPIONS League, whereas actually winning it doesn't!

Jus · Post by **Jus** » Thu May 26, 2005 1:25 pm

toby wrote:Liverpool WILL be put in next season which may not be the correct decision sticking by the rules but I think it is morally correct.

Sure. that means we should have went up as well then if your playing that card. Same sort of thing. But those are not the rules. So there.

toby · Post by **toby** » Thu May 26, 2005 1:38 pm

Jus wrote:
toby wrote:Liverpool WILL be put in next season which may not be the correct decision sticking by the rules but I think it is morally correct.
Sure. that means we should have went up as well then if your playing that card. Same sort of thing. But those are not the rules. So there.

What do you mean so there?

I think Liverpool should be able to defend the trophy as is my right!

I already said that it wasn't within the rules but it is what I think is morally correct!

Us going up or not is a totally unrelated issue.

Mork · Post by **Mork** » Thu May 26, 2005 2:14 pm

People should try and think of this from the point of view as an Ipswich fan. Say (just for arguments sake) we had just qualified for the Champions League as 4th placed team. Then say, Ac Milan had won the CL last night, but had finished 5th in Italy. UEFA then decide that because AC Milan have to defend their title, following significant pressure from the European Press, that they will change the rules, today, making only the top 3 teams in England qualify - leaving Ipswich, who have just achieved CL qualification for the first time ever, to play in the UEFA Cup instead.

You'd all be ready to scream bloody murder, and so would I.

Liverpool don't deserve to in the CL, qualfication is via your national league! Its like saying the World Cup winners (who dont automatically qualify), who get knocked out in their qualifying rounds in the 2 years before the world cup, get to go to the finals anyway, at the exclusion of one of the teams that beat them?!?!?! Madness!

phily bon bon · Post by **phily bon bon** » Thu May 26, 2005 2:52 pm

Liverpool should be allowed to defend the trophy next year.Im aware that they finished out of the top four domestically but they WON the competition for gees sake.I say again they WON the competition after beating (over two legs)some of the best teams both here and abroad.Maybe liverpool ought tÃƒÂ³ be made to quailify for the qualifiers(if you understand what Im trying to say!)so that all that quailÃƒÂfed still get the chance to "qualify" for the real stage. We all know that the CL is about money first and formost and maybe its because Im english I would love to see 5 english teams in the competiton even if it is at the expence of the Latvian/moldovian champions.IMHO

toby · Post by **toby** » Thu May 26, 2005 2:57 pm

FFS EVERTON ARE NOT GOING TO BE EXCLUDED AT THE EXPENSE OF LIVERPOOL!

The FA's position on this has been clear throughout, Everton are in the Champions League next season no matter what.

Liverpool will be allowed to defend the trophy (IMHO) but it will be in addition to Everton not instead of them.

Mork · Post by **Mork** » Thu May 26, 2005 3:00 pm

toby wrote:FFS EVERTON ARE NOT GOING TO BE EXCLUDED AT THE EXPENSE OF LIVERPOOL!

The FA's position on this has been clear throughout, Everton are in the Champions League next season no matter what.

Liverpool will be allowed to defend the trophy (IMHO) but it will be in addition to Everton not instead of them.

It'll still be at the expense of SOMBODY because UEFA are not going to re-structure the competition at this late point, are they ?

toby · Post by **toby** » Thu May 26, 2005 3:04 pm

Mork wrote:
toby wrote:FFS EVERTON ARE NOT GOING TO BE EXCLUDED AT THE EXPENSE OF LIVERPOOL!

The FA's position on this has been clear throughout, Everton are in the Champions League next season no matter what.

Liverpool will be allowed to defend the trophy (IMHO) but it will be in addition to Everton not instead of them.
It'll still be at the expense of SOMBODY because UEFA are not going to re-structure the competition at this late point, are they ?

Yes they will!

At the moment there are an odd number of entrants to next years Champions League so all they have to do is squeeze an extra qualifying round match in somewhere.

Do you think that all competitions feature the "perfect" number of participants (eg. 32, 64, 128 etc teams)?

toby · Post by **toby** » Thu May 26, 2005 3:09 pm

Try here for clarification http://www.uefa.com/competitions/UCL/ne ... 68457.html

crikes · Post by **crikes** » Thu May 26, 2005 3:16 pm

No - rules are rules and they are not always fair.

We finished third by 12 points from West Ham who now have a chance to get into Premier - Not fair but rules that we have to accept.

itfc_rach · Post by **itfc_rach** » Thu May 26, 2005 3:46 pm

i agree with toby there must be a way for liverpool to defend there trophy but not at the expense of others. they are not asking to go instead of any one else just for an additional place in the competition in the qualifying rounds. surely if there is a will there is a way.

Mork · Post by **Mork** » Thu May 26, 2005 3:58 pm

An innovative solution:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 582621.stm

Guess the welsh side has more to gain from one game against Liverpool, than it does getting knocked out to some random serbian side.

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Thu May 26, 2005 4:10 pm

I think they should be allowed to defend the cup next season, take some crappy little team out who won't even get through the qualifying rounds

Mark18 · Post by **Mark18** » Thu May 26, 2005 4:15 pm

they won it , they are the champions, and it aint the champions league for nothing is it.

crazee · Post by **crazee** » Thu May 26, 2005 4:19 pm

the winners should be allowed to defend their title, but not at some bodys expense. so really the rule needs changing

Post by **Dazza** » Thu May 26, 2005 7:42 pm

crazee wrote:the winners should be allowed to defend their title, but not at some bodys expense. so really the rule needs changing

Agreed!

Strike · Post by **Strike** » Thu May 26, 2005 10:44 pm

I am coming out of my break for this one. I think all Champions should be allowed to defend their trophy.

toby · Post by **toby** » Fri May 27, 2005 1:13 am

Isn't it strange that when the trophy was only open to the Champions of each country (and the reigning Champions) it was called the European Cup and yet now that it's full of teams who aren't champions of their country (and some who never have been, notably Bayer Leverkusen who got to the final a few years back) it's ironically called the Champions League?

hoobzblue · Post by **hoobzblue** » Fri May 27, 2005 7:32 am

i think they shud make sunderland stay in the championship so they can defend their title too.

Only seems fair to me.

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