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Over the past 2 season we've conceded far too many goals with these 2 playing the majority of the time together....

So who does everyone think is the worst of the two? Or is it just as a combination that they don't work? If Joe's gonna get a new CB in, he'll have to drop of these two...personally I doubt them both as decent CBs but would probably say that DeVos is the weakest as he is far too slow across the ground and doesnt stay tight enough to his man...

Thoughts??

neither of them are THAT bad, problem is neither of them is better then good on their best days, coupled with a midfield that does not defend all that often they are bound to conceed goals

Naylor is terrible.

Luke wrote:Naylor is terrible.

Ive slowly been coming to that conclusion aswell.

De Vos has been excellent, solid as a rock this year.

Rach wrote:Over the past 2 season we've conceded far too many goals with these 2 playing the majority of the time together....

So who does everyone think is the worst of the two? Or is it just as a combination that they don't work? If Joe's gonna get a new CB in, he'll have to drop of these two...personally I doubt them both as decent CBs but would probably say that DeVos is the weakest as he is far too slow across the ground and doesnt stay tight enough to his man...

Thoughts??

It is not all due to the central defence though, how many times do they come in from the wing leaving DeVos and Naylor to deal with 3-4 attacking players, so i think the left and right sided players are more to blame.

i agree that Naylor isnt the best, but the guy has been a diamond when u think of the job hes done, how many strikers can u name that have gone from striker to central defender and played as well as he has

for me he has done more than enough at ITFC, even when he was getting slated by the ITFC "faithful " he was still giving it his all, i still think that with a "good" defensive coach Naylor can become a very good defender

for me JDV has had years of experience but will only be at best an average championship defender

but our main problem lies with BFJ, if he cant impress on the midfield to get back and fight for every ball then we'll never do anything with him in charge, he needs to tell them to help the defence out, instead of looking pretty on the half way line hoping to get an assist (last line just for luke lol)

I've never been a Naylor fan so I've gotta go for him. Positional sense is dire, distribution is dire. The only reason he gets out of the mistakes he makes is because of his bravery and desire. Simply not good enough if you're looking for top 2 material.

The trouble is i think they both lack in different areas and rather than comlplimenting each other it means that one or the other is caught out.

Basically De Vos is as slow as an old donkey while Naylor can still get completly messed up positionally.

Both are strong but with little in the way of distribution skills (not that i think that is overly omportant in this division)

Some days you will see Naylor caught out of position time and time again whith de Vos seeminly clearing up everything while on other days Naylor seems solid while De Vos is turned this way and that and is constantly skinned by quicker players.

I really dont thinktheir is much to split them. I do however know that we need at least one other centre half that is better than both of them.

De Vos is fantastic in the air but you need more than that if your to challenge in the championship, I'd like to see 2 new central defenders but cant see it happening.

Luke wrote:Naylor is terrible.

Totally agree! I've never rated him. I think after the year he's just had, he should be occupying the bench for most games next season!

CTCS wrote:De Vos is fantastic in the air but you need more than that if your to challenge in the championship, I'd like to see 2 new central defenders but cant see it happening.

He was beaten at least 80% of the time on sunday up against the Plymouth no. 10.

For a big man De Vos shows a worrying lack of strength IMHO.

The pair of them are equally as bad IMO ...they are

1) SLOOOOOW !!!

2) EASILY TURNED / LACKING MOBIIITY

3) EASILY BEATEN IN A ONE ON ONE

4) DISPLAY p*ss POOR DISTRIBUTION ND FAIL TO" BRING THE BALL OUT OF DEFENCE"

I dont know about "Bacon n Eggs".(to coin a famous BR quote) Naylor and De Vos are more like scrambled eggs !

the Midfield hasn't exactly been helping out the deffence either.

hallamblue wrote:The pair of them are equally as bad IMO ...they are

1) SLOOOOOW !!!

2) EASILY TURNED / LACKING MOBIIITY

3) EASILY BEATEN IN A ONE ON ONE

4) DISPLAY p*ss POOR DISTRIBUTION ND FAIL TO" BRING THE BALL OUT OF DEFENCE"

I dont know about "Bacon n Eggs".(to coin a famous BR quote) Naylor and De Vos are more like scrambled eggs !

I personally think and have thought for at least 12 months that De Vos would benefit greatly from someone alongside him who is quick and comfortable with the ball at their feet. The pair would complement each other superbly and would certainly help link the backline to the midfield.

Lewis wrote:

hallamblue wrote:The pair of them are equally as bad IMO ...they are

1) SLOOOOOW !!!

2) EASILY TURNED / LACKING MOBIIITY

3) EASILY BEATEN IN A ONE ON ONE

4) DISPLAY p*ss POOR DISTRIBUTION ND FAIL TO" BRING THE BALL OUT OF DEFENCE"

I dont know about "Bacon n Eggs".(to coin a famous BR quote) Naylor and De Vos are more like scrambled eggs !

I personally think and have thought for at least 12 months that De Vos would benefit greatly from someone alongside him who is quick and comfortable with the ball at their feet. The pair would complement each other superbly and would certainly help link the backline to the midfield.

yes I think you're right there ...pity Casement has only just arrived on the scene ..hopefully JR will be getting in a mid twenites CB with a bit of pace ..then we'll have Bacon n Eggs - maybe !!

hallamblue wrote:

Lewis wrote:

hallamblue wrote:The pair of them are equally as bad IMO ...they are

1) SLOOOOOW !!!

2) EASILY TURNED / LACKING MOBIIITY

3) EASILY BEATEN IN A ONE ON ONE

4) DISPLAY p*ss POOR DISTRIBUTION ND FAIL TO" BRING THE BALL OUT OF DEFENCE"

I dont know about "Bacon n Eggs".(to coin a famous BR quote) Naylor and De Vos are more like scrambled eggs !

I personally think and have thought for at least 12 months that De Vos would benefit greatly from someone alongside him who is quick and comfortable with the ball at their feet. The pair would complement each other superbly and would certainly help link the backline to the midfield.

yes I think you're right there ...pity Casement has only just arrived on the scene ..hopefully JR will be getting in a mid twenites CB with a bit of pace ..then we'll have Bacon n Eggs - maybe !!

Oh we'll be 'cookin' then alright!

(Sorry that was p*ss poor I know )

I honestly think that Royle regards Casement as being a RB now.....on his most recent interview on Ipswich World he says that we only have 2 CBs on our books....shame as I think he should be seen as a RB who can play CB as well, as IMO he could play well with DeVos

Casement looked good beside Devos in preseason friendlies against Cambridge and Boston. Its his natural position and Devos needs someone with young legs to support his slow pace.

[quote="SashaBlue

It is not all due to the central defence though, how many times do they come in from the wing leaving DeVos and Naylor to deal with 3-4 attacking players, so i think the left and right sided players are more to blame.[/quote]

I see only the highlights, but I would have to agree that the fullbacks seem to be the offending defenders on the majority of the goals. And it certainly may be that they are exposed by the midfield.

hallamblue wrote:The pair of them are equally as bad IMO ...they are

1) SLOOOOOW !!!

2) EASILY TURNED / LACKING MOBIIITY

3) EASILY BEATEN IN A ONE ON ONE

4) DISPLAY p*ss POOR DISTRIBUTION ND FAIL TO" BRING THE BALL OUT OF DEFENCE"

I dont know about "Bacon n Eggs".(to coin a famous BR quote) Naylor and De Vos are more like scrambled eggs !

Is Naylor slow? (pace wise) I thought he had respectable pace.

seattle_gk wrote:

hallamblue wrote:The pair of them are equally as bad IMO ...they are

1) SLOOOOOW !!!

2) EASILY TURNED / LACKING MOBIIITY

3) EASILY BEATEN IN A ONE ON ONE

4) DISPLAY p*ss POOR DISTRIBUTION ND FAIL TO" BRING THE BALL OUT OF DEFENCE"

I dont know about "Bacon n Eggs".(to coin a famous BR quote) Naylor and De Vos are more like scrambled eggs !

Is Naylor slow? (pace wise) I thought he had respectable pace.

He's not too bad - when comparing him to De Vos ...but I suppose it's what he does with the ball , once he's managed to get it , thats the problem !

I have to disagree. I think Naylor is great, he's made so many last ditch tackles and goal line clearances. His determination is great. De Vos is as slow as a Norwich fan in a Chess Match.

I also agree on the point that the wide players are probably less reliable than the centre backs.

I also agree on the point that the wide players are probably less reliable than the centre backs.[/quote]

Thats the galling thing, last season the keeper and two centre backs were ok, yet we leak goals??? The wing backs could do with some work but I really think the midfield needs to buck up or ship out as far as getting back goes!! You build from the back and as far as Naylor and JFV goes I'd prefer Naylor - JDV is slow getting slower and age isn't on his side - Naylor has more years left in him and actually has a bit of pace (realtive term) Ideally we could have had Jay Mc in the middle bringing his energy to the fore...rather than filling in for an inept left back (Richards) and not doing the job too well himself!!

Aluren wrote:I have to disagree. I think Naylor is great, he's made so many last ditch tackles and goal line clearances. His determination is great. De Vos is as slow as a Norwich fan in a Chess Match.

I also agree on the point that the wide players are probably less reliable than the centre backs.

Aluren, you're a prime example of a Naylor fan. Easy to spot the last ditch tackles and goal line clearances (that normally occur because of one of his fcuk ups earlier down the line) but are not so quick to spot the awful positioning for losing markers for goals and giving the ball away cheaply to put pressure on himself.

Sure De Vos has his weaknesses but he's a proper defender. He just needs someone along side him to take the heat off him when the pressure is on. With Naylor alongside him, that's hardly going to happen.

vaalae wrote:I also agree on the point that the wide players are probably less reliable than the centre backs.

Thats the galling thing, last season the keeper and two centre backs were ok, yet we leak goals??? The wing backs could do with some work but I really think the midfield needs to buck up or ship out as far as getting back goes!! You build from the back and as far as Naylor and JFV goes I'd prefer Naylor - JDV is slow getting slower and age isn't on his side - Naylor has more years left in him and actually has a bit of pace (realtive term) Ideally we could have had Jay Mc in the middle bringing his energy to the fore...rather than filling in for an inept left back (Richards) and not doing the job too well himself!![/quote]


I think thats partly the reason why Sito has not been in the side much he's been far too vulnerable at suspect .Quite a few gaols occurred because he allowed the player toi get in behind him..or he failed to deal with the over head into space behind him.

Casement did well when he came in at RB (I know its not his position) But Royle commented that he felt Casement wasnt physically strong enough to cope at CB (yet !).

Lewis wrote:

Aluren wrote:I have to disagree. I think Naylor is great, he's made so many last ditch tackles and goal line clearances. His determination is great. De Vos is as slow as a Norwich fan in a Chess Match.

I also agree on the point that the wide players are probably less reliable than the centre backs.

Aluren, you're a prime example of a Naylor fan. Easy to spot the last ditch tackles and goal line clearances (that normally occur because of one of his fcuk ups earlier down the line) but are not so quick to spot the awful positioning for losing markers for goals and giving the ball away cheaply to put pressure on himself.

Sure De Vos has his weaknesses but he's a proper defender. He just needs someone along side him to take the heat off him when the pressure is on. With Naylor alongside him, that's hardly going to happen.

Aye Naylor may have some issues with positional sense, he tends to come too far forwards, I'm not saying he's a perfect player but he's easily Championship material. I just feel JDV doesn't have the same passion for Ipswich Town that Naylor does, and I respect any lad who wears his heart on his shirt and always gives his all.

Also, JDV seems to win less and less in the air these days and gets muscled off the ball alarmingly easily. I think he's a good lad and knows when to hoof it, which is something Naylor could learn from, but the main weaknesses in the defense are LB and RB, these players stray too far forward and leave the flanks exposed too much...