The scale of Paul Lamberts Job

[Charnwood]

I know I posted something similar to this on another thread but I really want to capture the scale of Paul Lamberts job compared with that of Mick McCarthy when he arrived at exactly the same time in 2012, when he inherited some half decent players whereas PL has very few.

Strange coincidence but Lamberts first game in charge is exactly 6 years to the day after Mick McCarthy, both took charge for the first time on Saturday 3 November.

If you look at MM’s starting line up at Birmingham that day it compares quite favourably with the players PL has to call on.

Town Team v Birmingham City which we won 0-1 was ...... compare this with our team that won at Swansea.

Teams

McCarthy’s. /. Lamberts

Stephen Henderson,/ Dean Gerken

Carlos Edwards, / Aristote Nsiala
Danny Higginbotham, / Matthew Pennington
Luke Chambers, / Luke Chambers
Aaron Cresswell, / Janoi Donacien

Lee Martin, / Cole Skuse
Guirane N’Daw, / Trevor Chalobah
Nigel Reo-Coker, / Gwion Edwards
Richie Wellens, / Andre Dozzell

DJ Campbell, / Grant Ward
Daryl Murphy , / Freddie Sears

Subs

Scott Loach, / Bart Bialkowski
Jay Emanuel-Thomas, / Kayden Jackson
Michael Chopra, / Jon Nolan
Jason Scotland, / Jordon Graham
Andy Drury, / Flynn Downes
Tommy Smith, / Jack Lancaster

Compare the two squads and you see the scale of Paul Lamberts problems and the shortage of Championship experience in his inherited squad. Even McCarthys bench has more strike power than PL has in his starting X1.

McCarthy brought in further resources in the January transfer window all loans and freebies inc Patrick Kisnorbo, David McGoldrick, Aaron McLean & Frank Nouble who were quickly followed by Richard Stearman and Jay Tabb. In total I think McCarthy brought in about ten new players in his first few months in charge. I wonder if Paul Lambert will be allowed to do the same.

Saturdays home game v Preston is going to be massive because if we win we stay in touch with them only 2 points behind, whereas if they win they open an 8 point gap which would be difficult to close. Unfortunately for us Preston are an in form side undefeated in their five games played in October, when they picked up 9 points with two wins and three draws scoring 13 goals with 8 against which suggests open attacking games.

I wish Paul Lambert well, but for sure the odds are stacked against him and our boys are certainly going to have to up their game.

[Frosty]

Thats a really good post Andy ........... really puts things into perspective.

[Bluemike]

For me the current squad is comfortably stronger in most areas, the striking department being the possible exception but I know which squad I prefer.

[MasseyFerguson]

I'm surprised by this comparison. I agree with bluemike. Much as I think, and have said here, that the current squad is not up to the challenge of this league I think it looks stronger than the squad MM inherited.

On the other hand, though I hated the style of football we played under him, I think MM is a better manager than PL.

[derick_ipsw]

The 2012 squad survived and got 60pts, I sincerely hope the 2018 squad does the same. I personally think the 2012 squad was stronger than what we have now, that could change in January of course but from those two list its 2012 for me.

[Tangfastic]

It’s quite an interesting comparison.

The 2012 seems like a sticking plaster squad. Seems like a bunch of journeymen players who were on their way downwards in their careers. Exceptions were Cresswell, Murphy and the newly acquired Chambers.... and, I suppose, Smith. But there’s more goalscorers there.

The 2012 team has much more experience, but so many of those players never hung around long here. I guess it doesn’t matter now, we’re looking no further than the end of the season. It’s not a transitional, building season now... it’s just survival.

It’s a struggle to see where we’re going to score goals. I prefer our squad now in terms of there’s more potential there, but we haven’t got the time for them to realise their potential. A big difference is we now have to wait until January to bring in players.... Mick was allowed to bring in players at any time.

Like others have said it’s the lack of options up front. It could be a simple case of just improving on our set piece delivery and also defending better at set pieces. I struggle to see where we’ll score in open play.

[charlton837]

It’s quite an interesting comparison.

The 2012 seems like a sticking plaster squad. Seems like a bunch of journeymen players who were on their way downwards in their careers. Exceptions were Cresswell, Murphy and the newly acquired Chambers.... and, I suppose, Smith. But there’s more goalscorers there.

The 2012 team has much more experience, but so many of those players never hung around long here. I guess it doesn’t matter now, we’re looking no further than the end of the season. It’s not a transitional, building season now... it’s just survival.

It’s a struggle to see where we’re going to score goals. I prefer our squad now in terms of there’s more potential there, but we haven’t got the time for them to realise their potential. A big difference is we now have to wait until January to bring in players.... Mick was allowed to bring in players at any time.

Like others have said it’s the lack of options up front. It could be a simple case of just improving on our set piece delivery and also defending better at set pieces. I struggle to see where we’ll score in open play.

I think the defence in 2012 looks pretty strong, but that midfield is terrible, Id rather our current options that's for sure!

[Tangfastic]

It’s quite an interesting comparison.

The 2012 seems like a sticking plaster squad. Seems like a bunch of journeymen players who were on their way downwards in their careers. Exceptions were Cresswell, Murphy and the newly acquired Chambers.... and, I suppose, Smith. But there’s more goalscorers there.

The 2012 team has much more experience, but so many of those players never hung around long here. I guess it doesn’t matter now, we’re looking no further than the end of the season. It’s not a transitional, building season now... it’s just survival.

It’s a struggle to see where we’re going to score goals. I prefer our squad now in terms of there’s more potential there, but we haven’t got the time for them to realise their potential. A big difference is we now have to wait until January to bring in players.... Mick was allowed to bring in players at any time.

Like others have said it’s the lack of options up front. It could be a simple case of just improving on our set piece delivery and also defending better at set pieces. I struggle to see where we’ll score in open play.

I think the defence in 2012 looks pretty strong, but that midfield is terrible, Id rather our current options that's for sure!

I prefer our midfielders, but we haven’t had a settled midfield. And are our midfielders ready for a relegation scrap?

Not sure what plan Lambert has.... Chambers mentioned we should be more tighter and more compact. Not sure if that’s his theory or if that’s what Lamberts been working on. Not sure if that would suit the likes of Dozzell, Nolan, Edwards, Edun, CHalobah. When Chambers mentioned being compact I thought of our midfield with Tabb and Anderson in it... no width. It worked, but we had a decent target man in Murphy who found the net. Looking forward to seeing what team Lambert puts out tomorrow..... especially the midfield.

[Charnwood]

If the current squad is better than the one Mick McCarthy inherited why on earth is anyone worrying about relegation. That Nov 2012 squad went on to pick up 23 points in November and December alone and finished the season mid table. If this squad is better, Paul Lambert should have no problem keeping us up and our worries should be over.

Personally I think our 2012 defence was better, our attacking options in a different league, and our midfield more Championship experienced and more streetwise than the current squad, however as I now see fewer of our games than I did in 2012 and far less than many of you on here I accept I may well be wrong.

I’m still hopeful we can avoid relegation but in my opinion it will take a miracle for Paul Lambert to replicate Mick McCarthy’s performance even with the better squad some of you guys think he’s inherited.

Only time will tell, at least PL has a home game against fellow relegation strugglers Preston, which should be easier for him than McCarthy’s first game away v Birmingham City.

[Bluemike]

The thing is while I prefer the current squad over the one Mick inherited I also think that the Championship is much much stronger now than it was back then so it doesn't go hand in hand that Lambert should have no trouble getting us up the table, I feel it is going to be so much harder than it was for McCarthy for that reason.

[Charnwood]

I’m not sure about that Mike, in 2012 /13 we had Burnley, Brighton, Crystal Palace, Leicester City, & Watford all playing in the Championship and all are holding their own in the Premier League along with Cardiff, Wolves and Huddersfield who were also in the Championship at that time.

I’m not sure how you’re defining strength Mike as this season there are no teams running away from the pack, in fact only 6 points separate the top 10 teams, unfortunately we have a weak pack of teams too ourselves included.

I think you’ll find 2012/13 was one the most competitive seasons ever in the Championship when the only really weak team was Bristol City who were relegated 10 points adrift at the bottom of the table on 41 points. Above them it took a record 55 points to avoid relegation, in fact if you look back 68 points got you in the play offs and 55 only just avoided relegation.

[Bluemike]

It's a tough one Andy cus back then I don't think the teams you mention were anything like they are now, I guess it is hard to compare the Two scenarios, but if those teams at the bottom were gaining so many points doesn't that suggest that the league was easier to pick up points back then ? I suppose even that can be looked at both ways LOL.

[Charnwood]

In truth Mike it’s always impossible comparing different era’s but it’s still a good topic for conversation, it just has to be easier getting 44 points from November onwards than 55 !

[Tangfastic]

Isn’t it better just to focus on the points to get out of the relegation zone... or to not to let the gap get any wider?

To set a target of 45 points or 50 points now just seems like a mountain to climb.

If we’re 5 points from safety at the start of January .... I would take that now. At least in January, Lambert can change the squad and try and make up ground.

[Mr Reality]

With 30 games still to play thats a max of 90 pts availble.
Personally i cant see us getting past 30 points out that which would mean relegation.
Base on our current points tally my prediction is we end up with around 40 points at best.

[Charnwood]

You expect a significant improvement then Mr Reality, at least that’s positive thinking.

[number 9]

Nice to see Lambert meeting with Butcher, Burley and Wark! As the thread title states, the scale of Lambert's job is mammoth. I'm Lambert will listen to any insight he can get.

I don't believe the banter about 10-million in January...there's no f**king way Evans will make that much dough available. I have to say, I giggle a little bit when I see people saying 'Oh I think Lambert will take us places' etc, etc. Well at the moment obviously, I only want Lambert to rescue us from the sh*t hole we find ourselves in...and then maybe consider the future in the future. Right now the murmurs we should be hearing from the stands is SOS!

I'd still take the uncertainty though over another year of Mick the Magician's fan disappearing act. Our current state of affairs do make me pucker a bit, but it's better to pucker than to squirt with boredom.

[Bluemike]

I don't think Paul Lambert asking the ex Town players to go and meet him should be underestimated, for me this is a great touch and shows how serious PL is about the job in hand, it can only be a good thing. Everything Lambert has done so far has been really impressive and professional, I am warming to him more and more each day.

[Watership Down]

In the words of Private James Frazer of Dad's Army " We're doomed it tell ye doomed"

[Charnwood]

Why would Paul Lambert want a meeting with Terry Butcher, George Burley and John Wark, I cant even think what he hopes to gain from such a meeting, any ideas would be appreciated as whatever it is has gone over my head.

[Bluemike]

I think it is an excellent piece of PR Andy, trying to unite the club through past idols, making them feel wanted again, which if lots of local media reports over the last few years are to be believed they haven't been, we were always a club which prided ourselves on doing things correctly, that seems to have slipped in recent times.

I also think Paul Lambert would probably be interested to hear first hand just what makes this club and it's fans tick, I don't see anything negative in this move by PL and no we may not gain anything from it but I saw it as a really nice touch which can do no harm either.

[number 9]

I think it is an excellent piece of PR Andy, trying to unite the club through past idols, making them feel wanted again, which if lots of local media reports over the last few years are to be believed they haven't been, we were always a club which prided ourselves on doing things correctly, that seems to have slipped in recent times.

I also think Paul Lambert would probably be interested to hear first hand just what makes this club and it's fans tick, I don't see anything negative in this move by PL and no we may not gain anything from it but I saw it as a really nice touch which can do no harm either.

I completely agree. Also, they are obviously still fans of ITFC and passionate about the club. They also played under the great Bobby Robson...so to say they have nothing to offer is a bit naive. Just my opinion Charny, don't jump down my throat.

[Ricco]

Yeah, they're about as well placed and anyone to comment on what has gone right and wrong within the club in the last 40 years, and if he gains nothing, then it's good PR as said!

[Charnwood]

I think it is an excellent piece of PR Andy, trying to unite the club through past idols, making them feel wanted again, which if lots of local media reports over the last few years are to be believed they haven't been, we were always a club which prided ourselves on doing things correctly, that seems to have slipped in recent times.

I also think Paul Lambert would probably be interested to hear first hand just what makes this club and it's fans tick, I don't see anything negative in this move by PL and no we may not gain anything from it but I saw it as a really nice touch which can do no harm either.

I completely agree. Also, they are obviously still fans of ITFC and passionate about the club. They also played under the great Bobby Robson...so to say they have nothing to offer is a bit naive. Just my opinion Charny, don't jump down my throat.

Bloody hell No 9 am I that bad ....I’m sorry if you think I am, maybe I need to change my ways

I’m not sure I’ve said “they have nothing to offer”.... I’m just not sure I know what it is. To me it seems more like PL wanting to be seen by the fans doing things differently and making sure he has his potential critics onboard.

As far as him learning about our current situation he would learn far more by talking to smaller groups within the club to find out what’s going well (that shouldn’t take long), what’s gone less well (that would take much longer), and how players and staff think things could be done differently, rather than talk to those from outside the club, albeit past employees from years gone by.

The smaller groups I’m talking about are 1) longer serving senior players, 2) Paul Hurst new signings, 3) Loan players, 4) Coaching staff, 5) Backroonm staff..... all will have a story to tell and all will have different ideas which he as manager woukd need to consider and input into his own plan to improve performance. In my opinion this would give him a much better insight into what’s needed to get the club back on it’s feet.

Somehow I couldn’t imagine Sir Booby Robson asking Ray Crawford, Andy Nelson and Larry Carberry their opinions on how they thought he should be doing his job, it just wouldn’t have happened.

A nice touch by Paul Lambert and good PR with the “old boys” and the fans, but nothing much more than that I suspect.

[Ricco]

But as you say, all will have a story to tell and have different ideas, surely it can't hurt to talk to these older players then?

Don't you think people in the club will only have the recent picture, the older players will have seen it all and are one step closer to the club than us supporters because they'll always have had contacts within the club and know it intimately.

Chambers for one would be a great insight in to the dressing room, but only over the last few years. Klug and similar longer standing staff may have a bit more of an insight, but none would have seen the success first hand of the Robson era and only a tiny number would've been about for the Burley years.

I'm not sure there's nothing to be gained from these older heads, particularly Burley, he will have a very strong opinion of what has gone wrong since his time, even if he's not completely correct or unbiased.

However they may all say "Evans is the problem and jump ship now while you can!". 4 managers in a calandar year?

[derick_ipsw]

I don't think Paul Lambert asking the ex Town players to go and meet him should be underestimated, for me this is a great touch and shows how serious PL is about the job in hand, it can only be a good thing. Everything Lambert has done so far has been really impressive and professional, I am warming to him more and more each day.

Totally agree, I think it shows a bit of class. Also Burley, Butcher & Wark have probably seen more Ipswich games this season than Lambert so all information is crucial. It is definitely a positive to have those 3 around the place.

[Tangfastic]

I think this is predominantly a PR exercise as opposed to information / experience sharing.

Forgetting about Hurst - as he was hardly here long enough- one of the big criticisms of the McCarthy era was that he alienated the fan base ( or a large part of it). I suppose by simply bringing these guys in it’s a nod to the fans and to another happier era. Just trying to bring the whole club together more. Doesn’t hurt and another thing is if you can get old players onside with the management....it’s one less potential critic who can be sniping from the sidelines. I think they’re trying to re-adress the ill-feeling and apathy that’s built up over the years. As long as the old players don’t take advantage of too many free cups of tea or prawn sandwiches then it can’t do any harm.

[charlton837]

i don't see a problem in this at all. No doubt it is a PR exercise however these guys are also fans of the club and want the best for it. PL would absolutely not be discussing what players he should play and what formation would work etc. Im sure its more a chat about the position of this club in view of the supporters and what in their opinions has been the root cause of the current position (more off the pitch).

Think we may all be thinking too much into this, I just see it as a new manager who is showing an interest in the history and the players from within that. Always worth listening to others opinions so long as your strong enough to make the final decisions yourself. An old manager of mine used to tell me "see you, hear all, say f*ck all" when evaluating things before you form your own mind. Maybe that's what hes doing!

[Bluemike]

Im not sure anyone is thinking too much into it, just impressed with the idea that PL has come up with.