Where did it all go wrong ?

Here you can chat about everything and anything related to ITFC and other football issues. This forum also hosts the now Internationally famous TB.com ITFC match previews which contain insightful pre-match thoughts, previous highlights, news links relating to Town, form guides and other bits and pieces. Feel free to discuss meet ups/travel plans in here as well.

Moderators: marko69, Bluemike, Charnwood

Post Reply
User avatar
Charnwood
Global Moderator
Posts: 11257
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:25 pm
Location: Moraira, Spain.

Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by Charnwood » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:49 am

Was it;

1) Getting rid of Mick McCarthy
2) Losing Waghorn, McGoldrick & Garner pre season
3) Appointing Paul Hurst to replace MM
4) Our 2018/19 transfer policy signing players from lower leagues
5) None of the above

In my opinion 1) became a necessity driven by the man himself, 2) definitely didn’t help, but the root cause was the combination of 3) & 4) above.

However I also believe that had Marcus Evans financially backed Mick McCarthy as he did Roy Keane I still believe it would have all been very different.

charlton837
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 11:53 am

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by charlton837 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:38 am

good question and the answer probably lies with all of these things for one reason or another. Id also argue that consistent underfunding has led to a slow decline for a while now which has been fast-tracked this seasoned. Ill elaborate with my opinion though;

1 - I agree with you that in the end Mick made it impossible for him to stay and I don't think it would ever have been a mistake getting rid of him, even now I say that but quite clearly what followed in hindsight was the wrong decision. If you look at 2018 as a whole (and most of 2017 to be honest) the stats don't make happy reading and that was with Mick in charge so not all was good with him here. We struggled to score goals, we were woeful at home, it was boring as hell to watch and we were losing season ticket holders left, right and centre, some of whom were very long standing supporters for decades. Mick was to blame for much of this however actually Evans moreso as he put us and Mick in this position, his lack of leadership in times of infighting and decline has been quite disgusting to be honest. I know a minority of our fans are tossers, its the same for every club out there and I don't condone some of the things that were said to Mick, but I think in the end it really did turn in to a war, having your fans and manager at each others throats the way they were was just not a good situation, but this could have all been nipped in the bud early on by our invisible owner if he wanted to help.

2 - This certainly didn't help at all, im not sure who made that decision, I think most of us were not too unhappy to see Garner and McGoldrick leave but clearly you have to replace them properly. I would add Webster to the list as I think he would suit the way we play this season and from what I can tell hes having good season at Bristol City. I was disappointed to lose Waghorn but then again if he wanted to go its tough to hold on but again it comes down to replacing him properly. I think we could have taken one of Harrison or Jackson but also needed someone who knows this league well to help them.

3 - In hindsight hard to argue with Hurst being wrong choice but im not going to be a hypocrite, I was delighted with him when he was appointed. I felt he was just the sort of person we needed and his track record would show that he could be a shrewd choice. What I didn't envisage was his apparent lack of man management skills and also ripping apart our squad and starting again. I did feel we needed a big shake up but I think in a way he took it a bit too literally. Part of me does wonder what constraints he was put under with Evans in terms of budget to work with, I guess we may never know the full truth but some of the things him and Doig were doing was strange.

4 - Im often for a strategy of looking to lower leagues however I agree with PL that you cant buy a whole host of them without some guidance from more senior players. I think early on our seniors were the ones letting us down but when you have a team full of inexperience its hard if you don't start well as they can get in a rut and find it tough to get out of it. I think we signed too many of these, we did need a couple of more championship renowned players to help.

5 - I wanted to add for me the biggest reason we are here now is not backing Mick when we should have done. Mick was the right appointment at the right time and when we were on an upward curve we should have taken that opportunity. When we were sitting top 2 at Christmas time we had a real chance to spend sensible money and keep ourselves up there, instead we opted to do nothing and we limped luckily in to the play offs and the rest is history. Even with a bit of spending we may not have changed anything but I cant help but feel that was our one chance with Evans in charge, that was poor ownership, especially as the squad at that time only cost £10,000 which was for Mings, disgrace he couldn't make a couple of million available to push for that promotion, that would have been a calculated gamble.


When Evans did his interview he claimed the next step after Mick was going to be a gamble, but a very calculated one. I would say brining in Hurst at that time was a calculated gamble, what followed with the squad breakup and replacements struck me as a full on gamble. At the time it sounded like Hurst was claiming even Evans was surprised, now I do understand you have to back your manager but if the club felt this was all too much too soon its their responsibility to step in and discuss internally. I feel we have been hugely let down by the top level management time and time again. The appointments of people like Clegg and Milne just haven't worked. I think Milne gets a bit of a rough time as I think he tries to interact and be approachable and even at time knowledgeable about football but its just not there, I can tell hes faking it most of the time. We need people who know football inside out to be in positions such as his, not just a suit.


Sorry to go on, but for me 3,4 and my point 5 are the main reasons we are here, I don't think ive felt as down after the defeat yesterday as we just beat ourselves with stupid mistakes and I feel whatever happens its all too late now, I just cannot imagine a possible way of getting out of this one. We have to change this club from the top downwards to have a chance to rebuild and be competitive next year.

hallamblue
Posts: 23715
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:30 pm
Location: Ipswich Town F.C.

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by hallamblue » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:52 am

One reason only :

Appointing Paul Hurst instead of the available Paul Lambert!

I doubt Waghorn would have left if this had been done and even if he had, Lambert would have had time to get in an adequate replacement.

No, we are here now because of Marcus Evans decision making!

User avatar
derick_ipsw
Posts: 2483
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: CHESTER

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by derick_ipsw » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:01 am

I think a combination of all those.

User avatar
JohnnyB
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:05 am

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by JohnnyB » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:12 pm

As Derrick says, a combination of all these factors.

1. Chronic underinvestment from Evans meant we needed the cynical/shrewd management style of MM to survive
2. This led to understandable frustration from the fans bored of hoofball and the cashing in of any talent that might take us forward
3. A gamble on Hurst that went disastrously wrong

I hope I'm wrong but I can't now see a way to avoid relegation so:

Will Lambert stay? I hope so.
Will he be given money to build a league 1 champions team for next year, blooded and experienced by half a season in the championship this year?
A team built around the emerging talent of the younger players like Downes, Lankaster, Dozzell and Bishop shored up by experienced players who can protect them in league 1 and manage the transition following promotion next year would seem a sensible option going forward. But will the younger players stay?

User avatar
derick_ipsw
Posts: 2483
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: CHESTER

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by derick_ipsw » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:13 pm

We have been in front in games 13 times this season and won only 2. That is another reason to Charny's list. :?

User avatar
marko69
Global Moderator
Posts: 15714
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:16 am
Location: Somewhere between here and there.

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by marko69 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:15 pm

For me, (2) is where it went wrong.

Forget (1) completely because the club & fans relationship had become so toxic that MM had to go.

Not saying (3) isn’t an issue, (he did play some weird as fk formations and starting line ups) ....

But losing firepower (option 2) is where it went wrong. No one really knows how better it “COULD’VE” been with Hurst had the strikers stayed.

Five recent Ipswich strikers all scored on Boxing Day.

User avatar
Dubai Blue
Posts: 4321
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:18 pm
Location: Dubai, UAE

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by Dubai Blue » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:49 pm

There is another missing item in the list and that is (actually two items):
1. FFP
2. How FFP penalties are (often not ) implemented
You can summarise if you like the above + parachute payments into 'unbridgeable financial disparity'
ME made it clear that ITFC would spend only within an FFP framework which meant that the finances of the club are run sustainably. I think we all agree with this as we don't want to see Administration again.
Of course sustainable in this context means that ME is willing to put his hands in his pockets for £6m year after year.
Some have commented above that Waghorn might have stayed with MM or PL at the helm but I doubt it. Just take a look at the salary that he is able to earn at Derby, and he is not even starting at the moment. We are not competitive in terms of wages with the bigger teams and I do believe that this is a big barrier to getting and retaining the players that we would need to get even close to promotion.
There has been a good churn of clubs falling through the Premier League trapdoor and this means that there are a good number of Champ sides with parachute payments and in addition there are a number of clubs that surely are not observing FFP plus a number of larger clubs like Villa & Stoke that surely have much higher commercial revenue than us and always will have unless we are promoted.
In summary I do believe that without a massive investor willing to inject 10s of £million into player investments we are now at the poor end of the league and the disparity that the system forces us to endure makes relegation sooner or later inevitable. We have MM to thank for not having been relegated before IMO. If things stay as they are then we are destined to be a yo-yo club between Championship and League 1 I'm afraid.

charlton837
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 11:53 am

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by charlton837 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:05 pm

good point Dubai, I think the finances in this league have moved on so much in the past 5 years or so. In the last 2 years we have been seeing clubs spending 50-60 million on players during the summer (I realize they have sold some players to raise a portion of this) and t his makes it near impossible to compete in the long run. The number of clubs spending this sort of money has increased over the past couple of years and for this reason I believe even with Mick or another manager in charge we would be moving towards the trap door each season unless we changed our strategy which I don't believe we would. We have undoubtedly fast tracked this by some of the things we have done since the summer but I think ultimately this was all inevitable. FFP has been a joke and will never work, and maybe im just being cynical but I think Evans has hid behind FFP to allow himself to invest the minimum he can get away with whilst just about keeping us afloat.

I do agree with the bit about MM keeping us up in recent times through his ways however I do also blame him for not at least future planning. By that I mean our youngsters never really had a chance under him, OK Nydam and Downes played a few games, Kenlock was only used in emergencies but I always felt Mick never trusted them to allow them to start and have a run in the team, he only seemed to opt for a defensive minded one. I think PL has it right, he is giving players like Downes and Lankester runs in the team then taking them out for a game or two before re-introducing. The problem is we should only be doing it with 1 or 2 not 4 or 5. Had Mick have done this a season or two ago players like Kenlock should/would have been first choice in the team and wouldn't be seen as youngsters starting out. You could say if we did that would be in the position we are now, I don't believe we would have done as we could have had the right mix of young and experienced players. Maybe im being harsh but I felt that for the last 2 seasons.

valleyroad
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:54 pm

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by valleyroad » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:27 pm

Dubai Blue wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:49 pm
There is another missing item in the list and that is (actually two items):
1. FFP
2. How FFP penalties are (often not ) implemented
You can summarise if you like the above + parachute payments into 'unbridgeable financial disparity'
ME made it clear that ITFC would spend only within an FFP framework which meant that the finances of the club are run sustainably. I think we all agree with this as we don't want to see Administration again.
Of course sustainable in this context means that ME is willing to put his hands in his pockets for £6m year after year.
Some have commented above that Waghorn might have stayed with MM or PL at the helm but I doubt it. Just take a look at the salary that he is able to earn at Derby, and he is not even starting at the moment. We are not competitive in terms of wages with the bigger teams and I do believe that this is a big barrier to getting and retaining the players that we would need to get even close to promotion.
There has been a good churn of clubs falling through the Premier League trapdoor and this means that there are a good number of Champ sides with parachute payments and in addition there are a number of clubs that surely are not observing FFP plus a number of larger clubs like Villa & Stoke that surely have much higher commercial revenue than us and always will have unless we are promoted.
In summary I do believe that without a massive investor willing to inject 10s of £million into player investments we are now at the poor end of the league and the disparity that the system forces us to endure makes relegation sooner or later inevitable. We have MM to thank for not having been relegated before IMO. If things stay as they are then we are destined to be a yo-yo club between Championship and League 1 I'm afraid.
Great post and sums it up perfectly.

MM became sickened by the large moron element who just have no clue and reacted to it, who wouldn't. The man done a phenomenal job in his time at Ipswich.
Losing MM is why Ipswich are where they are and hopefully Paul Lambert can save the club as he is a talented manager. He won't do a better job than MM with the finances at the club as they are. If he replicates MM he will have done a first class job.

Very few on here who were positive about Lambert when I mentioned on here previously that Evans should go and chap Lambert's door. Boring appointment, as negative as MM etc etc.
Last edited by valleyroad on Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

valleyroad
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:54 pm

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by valleyroad » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:31 pm

charlton837 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:05 pm

I do agree with the bit about MM keeping us up in recent times through his ways however I do also blame him for not at least future planning. By that I mean our youngsters never really had a chance under him, OK Nydam and Downes played a few games, Kenlock was only used in emergencies but I always felt Mick never trusted them to allow them to start and have a run in the team, he only seemed to opt for a defensive minded one. I think PL has it right, he is giving players like Downes and Lankester runs in the team then taking them out for a game or two before re-introducing. The problem is we should only be doing it with 1 or 2 not 4 or 5. Had Mick have done this a season or two ago players like Kenlock should/would have been first choice in the team and wouldn't be seen as youngsters starting out. You could say if we did that would be in the position we are now, I don't believe we would have done as we could have had the right mix of young and experienced players. Maybe im being harsh but I felt that for the last 2 seasons.
MM was future planning every single day in the job at Ipswich.
The young players didn't play as they weren't ready and weren't good enough.
The reason other PL clubs loaned young players to Ipswich was due to the fact that they were good enough and that they knew the talent of MM as a coach to bring them on !

valleyroad
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:54 pm

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by valleyroad » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:34 pm

valleyroad wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:27 pm
Dubai Blue wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:49 pm
There is another missing item in the list and that is (actually two items):
1. FFP
2. How FFP penalties are (often not ) implemented
You can summarise if you like the above + parachute payments into 'unbridgeable financial disparity'
ME made it clear that ITFC would spend only within an FFP framework which meant that the finances of the club are run sustainably. I think we all agree with this as we don't want to see Administration again.
Of course sustainable in this context means that ME is willing to put his hands in his pockets for £6m year after year.
Some have commented above that Waghorn might have stayed with MM or PL at the helm but I doubt it. Just take a look at the salary that he is able to earn at Derby, and he is not even starting at the moment. We are not competitive in terms of wages with the bigger teams and I do believe that this is a big barrier to getting and retaining the players that we would need to get even close to promotion.
There has been a good churn of clubs falling through the Premier League trapdoor and this means that there are a good number of Champ sides with parachute payments and in addition there are a number of clubs that surely are not observing FFP plus a number of larger clubs like Villa & Stoke that surely have much higher commercial revenue than us and always will have unless we are promoted.
In summary I do believe that without a massive investor willing to inject 10s of £million into player investments we are now at the poor end of the league and the disparity that the system forces us to endure makes relegation sooner or later inevitable. We have MM to thank for not having been relegated before IMO. If things stay as they are then we are destined to be a yo-yo club between Championship and League 1 I'm afraid.
Great post and sums it up perfectly.

MM became sickened by the large moron element who just have no clue and reacted to it, who wouldn't. The man done a phenomenal job in his time at Ipswich.
Losing MM is why Ipswich are where they are and hopefully Paul Lambert can save the club as he is a talented manager. He won't do a better job than MM with the finances at the club as they are. If he replicates MM he will have done a first class job.

The club did not get "rid" of MM. The fans did !

Very few on here who were positive about Lambert when I mentioned on here previously that Evans should go and chap Lambert's door. Boring appointment, as negative as MM etc etc.

Blue Wilf
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:19 pm

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by Blue Wilf » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:48 pm

Great discussion and contributions here - very thought provoking. For me, all of them (and Dubai's added ones) are valid. However, I think 2 is the real issue, depending on how 3 was advised/allowed to act. Let me explain. Losing our key strikers and goal threat, plus Webster who never really shone for us but has shown with Bristol City this season that he is capable at this level has kiled our ability to score goals. There is no way we should have put outselves in a position where we released these players - who were under contract - unless we had a suitable replacement. I know contracts don't mean much if people are offered more money elsewhere etc but the fact remains that a contract CAN be enforced, provided you (the club in this case) are prepared for the consequences (ie the player being unhappy, not performing etc). For me, this is the crux of it in that we should have had the balls to hold them until suitable replacements were found. If that meant keepingbthem for one more window then. So be it. The issue comes that Hurst seems to have been told to sell before he could buy.

Now that leads me to item 3 and what we do NOT know for sure is whether Hurst was over ruled and told he MUST sell them or allow them to go or whether he was prepared to sell them as he felt his purchases (ie Harrison and Jackson) were adequate replacements. If the latter was the case, then I think his appointment (and lack of judgement in this area) is by far the biggest issue/cause. We do not have the privilege of managing football teams but for anyone to think that these two albeit competent footballers could ever step into the shoes of 3 seasoned championship strikers is beyone belief and shows serious lack of competence for the position he held. We will probably not know for some months or years what is the truth - until Evans or Hurst speak out on the matter. I am not holding my breath for either...

User avatar
number 9
Posts: 1991
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:35 pm

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by number 9 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:08 pm

Great thread! For me, and I've said his numerous times, the one constant through all of this has been Mr Marcus Evans. His decision making or lack there of, has resulted in the downfall of Ipswich Town FC as we knew it. I hope he sells...and maybe we can rebuild under a new owner. We all deserve something more after years of decline.

User avatar
Bluemike
Global Moderator
Posts: 19429
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: Ipswich

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by Bluemike » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:49 pm

For me this goes way way further back than last season when things turned sour with MM at the helm, in truth it probably started with Administration which prompted the appointment of Marcus Evans, someone was needed and he was the only person stomping up the cash. Dubai is spot on with the FFP issue, people don't like it but it is a fact, we CANNOT go in to Administration for a second time, that would be it, and whether people like it or not Evans cannot spend the silly sums of money we would need, and what some fans call for him to make available to the manager, it can't and won't ever happen. Hallam & myself were talking to someone at the game Saturday who is very much in the know and was talking about an interview between Stuart Watson & Marcus Evans where Watson asked that very question and that was the answer Evans gave, he also said he would sell IF someone came forward who was able to invest as much as he was doing and that should that happen he would write off the current debt, I believe this info to be correct.

We can argue all day long about should MM have gone or not, I hung on longer than most in my support of him and I do not take anywhere near as much offence by his antics as many do, I think with hindsight it was a mistake, I wanted change by the end and I wanted Hurst as many others did too who have now gone quiet on it, I also wanted some lower League gems, as did many others who now bemoan it, yes we brought in too many, wonderful hindsight again but I also believe it was not all down to Hurst, those players that left had to leave, they didn't want to play for us again, who in their right mind keeps them ? The club had decided to offload McGoldrick long before Hurst arrived too. We had little choice but to go lower league, Jackson cost 1.7 Million, a lot to us but it buys you nothing these days, especially a proven striker.

Hurst will go down as the man who ruined this club, in the eyes of many Town fans anyway, but he was just one piece in a sorry jigsaw, he made a damning comment after he was sacked that there was a lot of stuff at this club that needs addressing before we have a chance in hell of success of any sort and he is right, yet again we have a manager now saying things like players contracts being allowed to run down should never happen, what is that Three managers now ? For me there is no answer to the opening question as they are all part of a massive mess from which we may well never recover, but like it or not there is One thing that would have stopped this debacle and that was to keep MM, ok it was boring, nobody can deny that and yes we were losing fans but we are going to lose a hell of a lot more next season trust me, 10K max at home games if you are lucky, all the upper tiers of the stands closed, great that will be. When we stood at Brentford on xmas eve a few seasons back and watched us turn them over to go top it was down to MM, nobody else, he was a god then, he wasn't backed and the rest is history.

User avatar
marko69
Global Moderator
Posts: 15714
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:16 am
Location: Somewhere between here and there.

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by marko69 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:19 pm

Side topic due to the 10K comment Mike...... obviously you’ll know better than me regarding Ipswich Town and the fans, but winning attracts the support. If relegated, stay near the top of League One all next season and Ipswich’s average gate should be maintained. Maybe even go up a few K. No?
My two examples would be Norwich fans packing in 26K every other week, Hibs packing in 19K vs Alloa at Easter Road......., do you not think Portman Road would be filled to the rafters if they were top six all season. Big “if” right enough.

Blue Wilf
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:19 pm

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by Blue Wilf » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:29 pm

I would be interested in mikes view too but i would like to think a challenge at the top of league 1 would bring big crowds as you suggest, Marko but ipswich fans seem to be so fickle. Its ironic that when we really need bums on seats to stay in tthe championship, we only get 16K but if we go down and start to look like promotion challengers - albeit only to get us back to where we are today, we may get similar or larger crowds! Time will tell I guess.

User avatar
marko69
Global Moderator
Posts: 15714
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:16 am
Location: Somewhere between here and there.

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by marko69 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:39 pm

Yep, i think fans are fickle across the board, Wilf, (except Liverpool FC maybe)

That championship winning season at Easter Rd had crowds of 19K v Alloa and Morton etc , but the next season it was back to 15K in the SPL.

I reckon the 10K crowds at PR could happen if it’s mid to lower League One....... Coventry City style!

User avatar
Bluemike
Global Moderator
Posts: 19429
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: Ipswich

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by Bluemike » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:52 pm

Marko, Norwich offered their fans a fab deal on Three year season Tickets when they went down and it generated the 26K weekly figure, good luck to them, it pains me to say it but they are more loyal than us these days by some distance. I would love to think us challenging at the top of League One would encourage bigger crowds but as Wilf said Town are really fickle, worse than most in my eyes, give tickets away for a tenner and you may get a crowd but stick to the standard price and we drop to 14K so god knows what will happen in league One, I have already heard that we may not even reduce ticket prices should we go down, if that is true you can forget bigger gates.

hallamblue
Posts: 23715
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:30 pm
Location: Ipswich Town F.C.

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by hallamblue » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:37 pm

You’d hope scum fans would be more up for it Mike.

Look at what they’ve had to “endure” .
3? Promotions if not 4
Plus numerous lengthy Cup runs

Town fans by comparison .

NOTHING in 18years!

User avatar
Bluemike
Global Moderator
Posts: 19429
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: Ipswich

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by Bluemike » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:55 pm

Yes but they still got 26K in League one, we wouldn't if we gave tickets away.

User avatar
number 9
Posts: 1991
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:35 pm

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by number 9 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:19 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:55 pm
Yes but they still got 26K in League one, we wouldn't if we gave tickets away.
What else is there to do on a Saturday afternoon in Norwich?

User avatar
AylesburyBlue
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:35 pm

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by AylesburyBlue » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:32 pm

number 9 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:19 pm
Bluemike wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:55 pm
Yes but they still got 26K in League one, we wouldn't if we gave tickets away.
What else is there to do on a Saturday afternoon in Norwich?
Tickle their sisters downstairs....

User avatar
Frosty
Forum Owner
Posts: 2598
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:46 am

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by Frosty » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:48 pm

I have sometimes wondered whether we have been stuck so long in the Championship that mediocrity has become a way of life for the club coupled with the fact that other teams that were historically around us, have moved ahead of us in terms of development.

The relegated teams are better equipped financially after the drop regardless of FPP which has meant much like the Premier League, a big gap has emerged between the stronger clubs versus the clubs in the lower half of the league.

It's hard to explain what I am trying to say, (and putting aside our own current prediciment) but once upon a time the teams in the relegation spots of the Championship would be particularly weak and an average side would have a reasonable chance of avoiding the drop. Nowdays this league in my opinion is a lot stronger than say it was 5 years ago and you can no longer expect to compete/stay in the league without ambition.

There will be multiple reasons behind our decline, but for me it's our transfer policies, players are often in limbo over contract status (and we lose some reasonable ones on a 'free'), we p*ss away huge amounts of wages for at best average journey men players (usually on a free, and they are generally 'free' for a reason), each season our best players are usually not our own and we sell our best players to balance the books.

My personal view is one of our biggest failings is not building a stable squad that can develop and grow over a number of seasons.

Too often our signings appear reactive rather than proactive.

User avatar
saint jude
Posts: 8479
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:41 pm

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by saint jude » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:49 am

You can trace it all back to around 2006. Incidentally when Royle vacated his position and David Sheepshanks handed over control to that pr*ck we possess now. Hardly at any time from there on have we been a club side equipped to challenge or feasibly able to sustain a team able to regularly entertain a promotion opportunity.

From Magilton to Hurst it's been a succession of inept names that while briefly may have ideally been seen as promising, were all ultimately failures. Say again it's too premature to bring Lambert into it, judgment will arise in due course but by God he's got a colossal task on his hands in the time ahead.

Bottom line Marcus Evans is the determining factor of why the club has fallen away such as it has. I don't believe he has nowhere near enough interest to make us competitive and there's not a week that goes by where don't wish he would f*ck off and take his "business" elsewhere. Sheepshanks at least had the best interests of the club at heart, the "new" incumbent is full of false pretences and disingenuous garbage that only keeps content the minority - however large or significant - insisting we continue to make progress or are indeed in safe hands.

Not enough money invested, a succession of sh*t managerial appointments, cup games invariably a non starter, players over time haven't been good enough to challenge, half empty stadia when we feature at home. A clear deficiency of belief or ambition have hit the club harder than many outside the team set-up could never realize.

User avatar
marko69
Global Moderator
Posts: 15714
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:16 am
Location: Somewhere between here and there.

Re: Where did it all go wrong ?

Post by marko69 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:51 am

Still maintain that had Waghorn, Garner & McGoldrick not fkd off at a highly crucial time, things could’ve been different under Hurst. Never know though.

Which leads onto Lambert......, now watched decent highlights of the Millwall game....... the team first half and large parts of the second half were very good indeed. They were creating real proper goalscoring chances and Flynn Downes looks a very intelligent player. But...... other than Sears, (who should’ve scored at least one) there isn’t anyone proven to put the chances away. Had the team been 3-0 up at HT, the second half changes and there is way less pressure on Chambers & Co.

Hopefully Lambert has faith in Lankester to give him more time to prove himself along with bringing in a goalscorer. Wouldn’t say no to Waghorn back on loan until May, although many wouldn’t want him back due to how he left. Modelling the 18/19 shirt then fecking off three days later!

Anyway, back on topic, ——-> firepower.

Post Reply