Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

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hallamblue
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Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by hallamblue » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:08 pm

Financial constraints biting at Sunderland ( and they've had parachute money!)..... but gives us pause for thought regarding whether we think Evans is doing enough or not and if the restrictions Town are also having to abide by .


https://rokerreport.sbnation.com/2019/7 ... -issue-why

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by Mach_Polish_Blue » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:25 pm

Different Sunderland views here though.

https://medium.com/@christoph_21/sunder ... eeba00f4cb

Liz what a change from you. Not so long ago you had been slating Evans now total change and you dearly defend the person who took us down to the level where we haven't been at for more than 60 years.

No-one is asking to splash the money. Just a bit of help to make us competitive. We can't even use meagre 450k from the Harrison sale.

Tell us then that selling off assets and reducing costs is a right policy !

Evans is responsible for the disaster yet some will keep defending him at every opportunity.... even if we're in League Two or National League in few years time.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by hallamblue » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:18 pm

Hello Mach. I think I’ve come to realise that he’s trying to work within the rules . I may not like the situation we are in, but I’d suggest Bolton would swap with us in an instant . We can’t afford to go down the route of constantly chucking money at it. There will be s few Clubs that will pay the penalty for doing so , eventually. Derby have chucked stupid money at their squad for the last 4-5 seasons to get promoted, but have consistently failed . They have now been forced to sell their ground, as have another Club ( Bolton?) .

Football isn’t the game it used to be. You either take high risks in the hope pays off , or you try to do it the way we are now trying to do it.

What do you want Town fans to do? Demonstrate at matches , chant from the stands? March to the ground ( like those inbred tw@s up the A140?)...,, I’ll tell you now , it’ll achieve nothing except demolish all the unity that Lambert has managed to create in such a short time , given the utter shyte atmosphere we had under that
Arrogant tw@ McCarthy .

Town fans voted with their feet , and Evans had to act . Now if you think fans should do similar again to try and oust Evans, I think you’ll find it will fail . Evans could easily pull the plug on ITFC and then we’d have NOTHING!

The choice is yours Mach. But I’d rather go to games and be part of the support we offered last season, than watch McCarthys shyte every week. I sincerely hope that Lambert can build something with our kids this ( and likely) next season. It may well take two seasons to achieve promotion. If fans had listened Lambert had streaky alluded to this fact . Going forwards, This has to be the way we go I’m afraid . You’re either with the Club on this, or not . The choice is mostly definitely down to the individual.

It’s very difficult to get rid of owners in
Football : ask Newcastle fans!!

Also you say Evans needs to spend enough to make us competitive ( not a fortune ). But he is RESTRICTED by the rules to spending a maximum of 60% revenue . Given our wages budget is probably one of the highest in the division , we are probably close to that level.

But perhaps you should reflect on Evans paying Bart a lucrative deal for 3 years ( that we now can’t afford), or for McCarthy for convincing Evans to pay sick note Huws, a lucrative 4 yr deal and the injury prone f*cker has hardly kicked a ball in 2 years! Evans DOES pug his hand in his pocket , but fans just seem to ignore the most expensive aspect of the game - a players wages .
Last edited by hallamblue on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by Andym » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:39 pm

Hallam, I agree with all of that.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by Bluemike » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:09 pm

For a long time now I've tried to argue the case as to why we don't/can't spend money but its got to the point where I just can't even be bothered to debate it now cus you can't win, people have a right to their own opinions but for me they all to often dodge the facts and are not reality, again just my opinion. We all know mistakes have been made but equally we should all also know that only one person in the last Ten years has kept ITFC afloat.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by Mach_Polish_Blue » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:18 am

Liz (HallamBlue)

I have provided you a different view of a different Sunderland fan. Wonder if you were bothered to read it. You somehow use your own link to suit yourself and your sudden sympathy to Evans. You should know that our situation isn't the same as Sunderlands. They are on the final year of parachute payments and they will be still able to afford players that no-one else can in League One.

You claim that Bolton would swap with us in an instant? I keep hearing the same crap every single season. People use other clubs' problems to defend Evans. Even if we end up in League Two or National League in a few years time I bet I'll be hearing same old same old regarding the 'saviour Marcus'.

Derby have chucked stupid money? So what? 7M for Tom Lawrence whom 'saviour Marcus' wasn't able to sign is a bad thing? At least they give themselves every chance to do well. What about Bristol City for example? Last year they sold Flint, Reid and Bryan and re-invested money. Ipswich and Saint Marcus after selling assets in the last few years? You know what the answer is.

Football isn’t the game it used to be...... Oh it isn't indeed. We used to be a main East Anglian club, today though Norwich are light years ahead of us.

'You either take high risks in the hope pays off , or you try to do it the way we are now trying to do it........' WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT LIZ? What 'high risks' did Norwich and Sheffield Utd make last season? Norwich for example got promoted with three youngsters in their defence none of them had played a Championship football prior to last season. They had a plan, they stuck to it and it paid off. They have a group of competent people with footballing brains in their board and we are a total embarrassment in compare to them. Sounds painful I know but this is the truth.
So either high risks or the way we are trying to do it..... OH NOOOO LIZ, PLEASE ! What is our way? Cashing in on any possible asset and reduce costs at every opportunity. WHAT A WAY TO PROGRESS !!!!

What do I want Town fans to do? Take an example from Charlton fans. They avidly voice their displeasure over their owner Roland Duchatelet and his underinvestment and lack of interest. Why is it so different in Ipswich? Just because this is a nice, sleepy part of the country where you don't make a fuss?

And you still think that myself and other anti-Evans people want him to splash the money. Someone else has given you a perfect response on TWTD. Here it is: 'Can we please make sure people understand the difference between wanting Evans to spend big and wanting adequate cover, experience and quality. Most of us just want a striker and a CB. It's not too much to ask to have the basics. No one is asking Evans to spend millions. Quality loans, frees or cheap signings are fine as long as they fit the bill'.

So are we asking for much? I cannot even understand why the sell on clauses we have received this summer aren't going to be reinvested in the squad? It's bonus money which wouldn't have been accounted for when they finalised budgets for League 1.

Evans is a one big disaster who has turned us into a tinpot, irrelevant League One club. But this is Ipswich where you don't make a fuss and any dodgy owner would have a nice, easy life. If we rot in this Sunday League for years or get relegated even lower then you might realise what a disaster he is and stop using Boltons, Burys to defend him. Even if we miraculously get promoted we won't see any further investment. We will still cash in on assets and look to reduce costs, Ipswich Town under the Santa Marcus !

Long rant but some people (you perhaps) won't get it because he keeps us afloat blah, blah, blah, we wouldn't have a club without him blah blah blah.
Last edited by Mach_Polish_Blue on Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by saint jude » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:20 am

People will be blinded by the loathing for the owner and won't look beyond personal disregard or vindictiveness towards Marcus Evans. Can see the reasoning behind it, it's all too easy to address the situation in that the club hasn't achieved a goddamn thing since he's come in (and with it one inept managerial appointment after another) but when or if you take the time to look below the surface Evans isn't quite the devil incarnate some would believe.

So many are tired and dismayed the way the club has fallen away since David Sheepshanks / Royle / 2005 (delete as applicable) and have hardly at any time since looked like regaining previous stature. Evans will be in the line and fire first and foremost given his position within the club set-up. That's how many will view it. Could be some level of savior, perhaps amid all the bullshit and inconsistencies of the last 12, 13 years the owner has attempted vehemently to do what's best for the club name but as before you feel such a considerable percentage are so set against the name it's all rather trivialized and goes by the wayside. Can understand the frustrations or indeed hate, can't really add anything else to the issue that hasn't already been elaborated on or focused as point of discussion.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by tangfastic » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:07 am

It’s too early to say whether we are an irrelevant tin-pot League 1 club. We’ll see.

I think everyone would agree that Evans has made mistakes and has lacked ambition, but I’m just thinking he got his fingers burnt early on and doesn’t want to get burnt again. I would like to see the Harrison money and top-up money re-invested on a couple of players, but maybe that will go towards freebies wages if we get a couple in. Dunno... not ideal, but I’ve had enough of the moaning and in-fighting and crap football. Just want to get back to enjoying the football.... even if it’s in League 1.

We’re hardly a club in free-fall... YET. The last 35 years we’ve pretty much been a second tier club and spent the last 17 seasons in the Championship. The last few years have been miserable not just through relegation , but more through the constant bitching and finger-pointing. Good to see the fans come together at the end of last season. I don’t think that was in support of Evans, but just simply if we can’t get behind the club... what’s the point? Might as well just give up on the club. Some are fixated by Evans and seem more interested in him than the football.

We should at least be competitive in League 1 and could be we see start seeing some decent football played. Who knows.... I can’t predict how we’ll get on. If we’re struggling in League 1 after a few months, then Mach’s words could be prophetic, but I’m just looking forward to a fresh start after last season.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by number 9 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:17 pm

I have been very critical of Evans in the past, but for me it's not worth complaining anymore because it's not gonna change. I have acknowledged Evans has been rather unlucky with his managerial appointments except for Jewell, who was probably the result of a panic decision. McCarthy had the helm for far too long, but I'm sure ME was certainly skittish at that point as far as finding a replacement. You can spend 10s of millions on a club and still not achieve the success you'd prefer.

I can't say I'm optimistic about the current situation we find ourselves in, but it's the change many of us coveted after the shyte era of McCarthyism. I'd at least prefer this opportunity to 'reset' our beloved club and to somehow find success amongst the mires of defeat, rather than fester in the bogs of the championship so that our remains can be discovered at a later date. Let's wait and see what the future brings and hope that this new beginning is the first step to improvement.

COYB!

f*ck off Norwich!

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by Bluemike » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:46 pm

Two excellent posts and this bit for me is so true...


"""Some are fixated by Evans and seem more interested in him than the football.""" 

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by saint jude » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:03 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:46 pm
Two excellent posts and this bit for me is so true...


"""Some are fixated by Evans and seem more interested in him than the football.""" 
What football's that then. Fifteen years of absolute decline with the end result being a fall into the third league of the game for the first time since records began ? Cup eliminations from a whole host of inferior names, there's been so many you kind of lose count after a while. No progress beyond round four for ten years is it ?

One play-off appearance since 2005 and even then well beaten over two games at not even a Final appearance. Five wins from 45 games the last season gone and even then some of those were arguably fortunate. One disaster ridden managerial appointment after another, and Lambert has hardly had the start anyone could have hoped for. Sport is fickle and so is opinion, but at the top of it all sits the owner and chairman. A name that is primary culpable for all the deficiencies and garbage the club has suffered on field since coming in. Oh yeah he may do 'his bit' beyond the scenes, but what has it achieved for us ? Mach Blue made a valid point if anyone took the time to read it.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by Bluemike » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:40 am

You go to football to support your team, win, lose or draw and through thick and thin, that's how it is, at least with me it is, why has the last 17 years been decline?;it hasn't, in all that time we were a Championship club holding our own when many bigger clubs were dropping into League One, most of these clubs had not gone through the trauma of Administration a few years ago like we had !!

It's so easy for people to forget that little fact and guess what Evans wasn't around when our wonderful and well run club nearly went bust and out of business, it failed when it was being run by individuals who are lauded over as being our great past, running a fabulous little family club and splashing the cash on players got us into that mess but sone seem to crave for it again, utterly ridiculous. For the Millionth time we cannot go down the route of Admin again, we can only spend what the rules say we can spend and we now have another 9 million shortfall to absorb. It really isn't hard but I doubt it will get through this time either.

As with everything in life people have a choice go or don't go , if it's not bringing the enjoyment that it should then choose the latter. Aa tough as last season was it should still be about enjoying the occasion and meeting up with friends and fellow fans but once that stops what's the point ?

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by Ando » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:56 am

Any money we have had has been spent on expensive loan signings that’s where the money goes. Our relegation had nothing to do with money directly it was how what we did have was spent. Evans did not buy the players but he did reinvest the money from player sales last season.

I would rather not see the club go to the wall like others have done recently, but be stable and competitive with its own players. In the past We have let players go too early Eg Rhodes, Marriott because at the time they were deemed not good enough for the Championship. Forced or not, I like the direction the club is now going in, why have an academy if you don’t use it.

Yes ME has appointed the managers but he does not make the footballing decisions, he does however set the financial limits. Yes he is a wealthy man but he in terms of modern day football owners he is not. You need to be a billionaire to be able to sustain a football club that operates beyond its means.

Sometimes you need to take a step back to move two forward let’s hope it’s the case for our club. This season the club and supporters need to hold its nerve early on and form judgement after a dozen or so games. But most of all support the manager and players and enjoy the ride!

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by tangfastic » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:30 am

Ando wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:56 am
Any money we have had has been spent on expensive loan signings that’s where the money goes. Our relegation had nothing to do with money directly it was how what we did have was spent. Evans did not buy the players but he did reinvest the money from player sales last season.

I would rather not see the club go to the wall like others have done recently, but be stable and competitive with its own players. In the past We have let players go too early Eg Rhodes, Marriott because at the time they were deemed not good enough for the Championship. Forced or not, I like the direction the club is now going in, why have an academy if you don’t use it.

Yes ME has appointed the managers but he does not make the footballing decisions, he does however set the financial limits. Yes he is a wealthy man but he in terms of modern day football owners he is not. You need to be a billionaire to be able to sustain a football club that operates beyond its means.

Sometimes you need to take a step back to move two forward let’s hope it’s the case for our club. This season the club and supporters need to hold its nerve early on and form judgement after a dozen or so games. But most of all support the manager and players and enjoy the ride!
TBH Lambert has mentioned that same fact... no point in having an academy if we can’t get enough youngsters in the team week in, week out.

I’m not having a pop at Klug, but Klug seems to be put on a pedestal whereby he has a great reputation for bringing youngsters through to international youth level. That’s brilliant... but how many go on to be first team regulars and play, say, over 100 games for us?
It’s nice to see a kid play for England under 17’s, 19’s or whatever.... but I’d prefer they became a first team regular and, if they did leave, they’d leave for a sizeable fee to a bigger club. We’ve had so many young prospects who get released.

The academy isn’t cheap. Some fans think it’s the cheap option to use youngsters, but seeing as the vast majority of youngsters never make it in the game at a decent level, we’ve got to produce enough first team regulars to make it worthwhile financially.
You might as well go the Brentford way and ditch the academy.

It’s time a few more academy players nail down a place in the starting line up.... not just be squad fillers.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by hallamblue » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:56 am

Ando wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:56 am
Any money we have had has been spent on expensive loan signings that’s where the money goes. Our relegation had nothing to do with money directly it was how what we did have was spent. Evans did not buy the players but he did reinvest the money from player sales last season.

I would rather not see the club go to the wall like others have done recently, but be stable and competitive with its own players. In the past We have let players go too early Eg Rhodes, Marriott because at the time they were deemed not good enough for the Championship. Forced or not, I like the direction the club is now going in, why have an academy if you don’t use it.

Yes ME has appointed the managers but he does not make the footballing decisions, he does however set the financial limits. Yes he is a wealthy man but he in terms of modern day football owners he is not. You need to be a billionaire to be able to sustain a football club that operates beyond its means.

Sometimes you need to take a step back to move two forward let’s hope it’s the case for our club. This season the club and supporters need to hold its nerve early on and form judgement after a dozen or so games. But most of all support the manager and players and enjoy the ride!

Spot on Ando 👍

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by hallamblue » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:03 pm

tangfastic wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:30 am
Ando wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:56 am
Any money we have had has been spent on expensive loan signings that’s where the money goes. Our relegation had nothing to do with money directly it was how what we did have was spent. Evans did not buy the players but he did reinvest the money from player sales last season.

I would rather not see the club go to the wall like others have done recently, but be stable and competitive with its own players. In the past We have let players go too early Eg Rhodes, Marriott because at the time they were deemed not good enough for the Championship. Forced or not, I like the direction the club is now going in, why have an academy if you don’t use it.

Yes ME has appointed the managers but he does not make the footballing decisions, he does however set the financial limits. Yes he is a wealthy man but he in terms of modern day football owners he is not. You need to be a billionaire to be able to sustain a football club that operates beyond its means.

Sometimes you need to take a step back to move two forward let’s hope it’s the case for our club. This season the club and supporters need to hold its nerve early on and form judgement after a dozen or so games. But most of all support the manager and players and enjoy the ride!
TBH Lambert has mentioned that same fact... no point in having an academy if we can’t get enough youngsters in the team week in, week out.

I’m not having a pop at Klug, but Klug seems to be put on a pedestal whereby he has a great reputation for bringing youngsters through to international youth level. That’s brilliant... but how many go on to be first team regulars and play, say, over 100 games for us?
It’s nice to see a kid play for England under 17’s, 19’s or whatever.... but I’d prefer they became a first team regular and, if they did leave, they’d leave for a sizeable fee to a bigger club. We’ve had so many young prospects who get released.

The academy isn’t cheap. Some fans think it’s the cheap option to use youngsters, but seeing as the vast majority of youngsters never make it in the game at a decent level, we’ve got to produce enough first team regulars to make it worthwhile financially.
You might as well go the Brentford way and ditch the academy.

It’s time a few more academy players nail down a place in the starting line up.... not just be squad fillers.


Kluge does his job well I feel. If these players that he has developed are not given their wings in the senior squa£, surely that’s down to the Manager, and not Klug? McCarthy wasn’t interested, nor was Hurst it seemed ( sending them out on loan). But Lambert seems to be embracing the academy and working with ALL his staff unlike his predecessors. Whether that’s because of financial constraints or a genuine desire to blood the youngsters, is almost immaterial, because that’s the way we are going this coming season.

Some would say this lacks ambition. But I think the opposite. Is taking the development pathway to its natural end point - first teamer! But these kids need to time to adjust / develop at that new level. Chucking money at it clearly hasn’t worked. Hurst had spent more it seems than McCarthy, but look where that has got us!

I’m looking forward to seeing our young squad develop this season. It wont be easy and mistakes will be made. It may take a couple of seasons t9 get back t9 the Championship, but I think we will do it with home grown players.

COYBs 👍

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by tangfastic » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:52 pm

hallamblue wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:03 pm
tangfastic wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:30 am
Ando wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:56 am
Any money we have had has been spent on expensive loan signings that’s where the money goes. Our relegation had nothing to do with money directly it was how what we did have was spent. Evans did not buy the players but he did reinvest the money from player sales last season.

I would rather not see the club go to the wall like others have done recently, but be stable and competitive with its own players. In the past We have let players go too early Eg Rhodes, Marriott because at the time they were deemed not good enough for the Championship. Forced or not, I like the direction the club is now going in, why have an academy if you don’t use it.

Yes ME has appointed the managers but he does not make the footballing decisions, he does however set the financial limits. Yes he is a wealthy man but he in terms of modern day football owners he is not. You need to be a billionaire to be able to sustain a football club that operates beyond its means.

Sometimes you need to take a step back to move two forward let’s hope it’s the case for our club. This season the club and supporters need to hold its nerve early on and form judgement after a dozen or so games. But most of all support the manager and players and enjoy the ride!
TBH Lambert has mentioned that same fact... no point in having an academy if we can’t get enough youngsters in the team week in, week out.

I’m not having a pop at Klug, but Klug seems to be put on a pedestal whereby he has a great reputation for bringing youngsters through to international youth level. That’s brilliant... but how many go on to be first team regulars and play, say, over 100 games for us?
It’s nice to see a kid play for England under 17’s, 19’s or whatever.... but I’d prefer they became a first team regular and, if they did leave, they’d leave for a sizeable fee to a bigger club. We’ve had so many young prospects who get released.

The academy isn’t cheap. Some fans think it’s the cheap option to use youngsters, but seeing as the vast majority of youngsters never make it in the game at a decent level, we’ve got to produce enough first team regulars to make it worthwhile financially.
You might as well go the Brentford way and ditch the academy.

It’s time a few more academy players nail down a place in the starting line up.... not just be squad fillers.


Kluge does his job well I feel. If these players that he has developed are not given their wings in the senior squa£, surely that’s down to the Manager, and not Klug? McCarthy wasn’t interested, nor was Hurst it seemed ( sending them out on loan). But Lambert seems to be embracing the academy and working with ALL his staff unlike his predecessors. Whether that’s because of financial constraints or a genuine desire to blood the youngsters, is almost immaterial, because that’s the way we are going this coming season.

Some would say this lacks ambition. But I think the opposite. Is taking the development pathway to its natural end point - first teamer! But these kids need to time to adjust / develop at that new level. Chucking money at it clearly hasn’t worked. Hurst had spent more it seems than McCarthy, but look where that has got us!

I’m looking forward to seeing our young squad develop this season. It wont be easy and mistakes will be made. It may take a couple of seasons t9 get back t9 the Championship, but I think we will do it with home grown players.

COYBs 👍
That’s reasonable - not blaming Klug, but surely we’ve got to have a strategy of not just developing youngsters but bringing them through better.
I mean if someone like Mick favours a certain type of player then it would be best to have a youth coach on the same wavelength ie someone who can focus on coaching hairy-arsed skills and bring in 6ft 15 year olds who can head a ball. Not sure our academy was in line with our first team philosophy.

Not sure Hurst was here long enough to get blamed with ignoring the youth. Also, although he bought plenty, he bought from a cheaper market and he had to generate money by selling senior players (and getting them of the wage bill).

Hopefully, we’ll see the young players come through next season .... especially as we’re not in a position to spend much cash.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by Bluemike » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:02 pm

Surley playing Downes, Kenlock, Bishop, Emmanuel, El Mizouni, Lankester is proof enough the academy is being utilised correctly already, it's a myth that we don't give our kids game time.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by tangfastic » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:25 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:02 pm
Surley playing Downes, Kenlock, Bishop, Emmanuel, El Mizouni, Lankester is proof enough the academy is being utilised correctly already, it's a myth that we don't give our kids game time.
That’s true...we’ve given plenty of kids game time, but would you describe those players and others as regulars? Ones you expect on a team sheet every week. Not just the occasional run in the team and warming the bench.

I’m thinking back to when an academy player became a regular at some stage. Tommy Smith for a few years, perhaps. Maybe Bishop if he’d stayed fit. Would like to see a young player nail down a place in the team.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by number 9 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:43 pm

tangfastic wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:25 pm
Bluemike wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:02 pm
Surley playing Downes, Kenlock, Bishop, Emmanuel, El Mizouni, Lankester is proof enough the academy is being utilised correctly already, it's a myth that we don't give our kids game time.
That’s true...we’ve given plenty of kids game time, but would you describe those players and others as regulars? Ones you expect on a team sheet every week. Not just the occasional run in the team and warming the bench.

I’m thinking back to when an academy player became a regular at some stage. Tommy Smith for a few years, perhaps. Maybe Bishop if he’d stayed fit. Would like to see a young player nail down a place in the team.
As I've said before, the true test for our academy is how the youngsters perform at league one level. If they can't hack it, then in my opinion our academy has failed.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by Mach_Polish_Blue » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:15 pm

People have been bigging up our bunch of extremely overrated youngsters for years. The only one who has progressed is Lankester. No-one else. Some might mention Downes but he is an error prone one.
Bishop was gonna be a star for us according to somewasn't he? That eternal sicknote.

As for Evans he will never do wrong in the opinion of some. No matter how low we drop some will keep defending him. This is so bizarre. The only fanbase in the world where a football owner can have a nice, easy life.

Charlton's Roland Duchatelet hated by their fans for the way he runs the club. He'd have completely different life at Ipswich among such easy going fanbase.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by Bluemike » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:18 pm

tangfastic wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:25 pm
Bluemike wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:02 pm
Surley playing Downes, Kenlock, Bishop, Emmanuel, El Mizouni, Lankester is proof enough the academy is being utilised correctly already, it's a myth that we don't give our kids game time.
That’s true...we’ve given plenty of kids game time, but would you describe those players and others as regulars? Ones you expect on a team sheet every week. Not just the occasional run in the team and warming the bench.

I’m thinking back to when an academy player became a regular at some stage. Tommy Smith for a few years, perhaps. Maybe Bishop if he’d stayed fit. Would like to see a young player nail down a place in the team.
Yeah fair point but I think but for injuries Bishop and possibly Lankester would be first team regulars, now Knudsen has departed Kenlock may also be regarded as one, gonna be interesting for sure.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by hallamblue » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:31 pm

Mach_Polish_Blue wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:15 pm
People have been bigging up our bunch of extremely overrated youngsters for years. The only one who has progressed is Lankester. No-one else. Some might mention Downes but he is an error prone one.
Bishop was gonna be a star for us according to somewasn't he? That eternal sicknote.

As for Evans he will never do wrong in the opinion of some. No matter how low we drop some will keep defending him. This is so bizarre. The only fanbase in the world where a football owner can have a nice, easy life.

Charlton's Roland Duchatelet hated by their fans for the way he runs the club. He'd have completely different life at Ipswich among such easy going fanbase.
Christ Mach, do you seriously have nothing good to say about your football Club? You come across as so angry all the time. Everything is doom and gloom. Nothing’s right , nor ever will be, in your view of the Club, it seems!

Do you actually like going to watch them anymore ?? ( I’m seriously interested Mach, because you seem so down all the time )

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by Mach_Polish_Blue » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:21 am

hallamblue wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:31 pm

Christ Mach, do you seriously have nothing good to say about your football Club? You come across as so angry all the time. Everything is doom and gloom. Nothing’s right , nor ever will be, in your view of the Club, it seems!

Do you actually like going to watch them anymore ?? ( I’m seriously interested Mach, because you seem so down all the time )
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: BURST INTO LAUGH :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: HallamBlue says to a different member that he is angry. Angry ! From you Hallam! THIS IS UNREAL !

What have I said was wrong? In my opinion Lankester is the only youngster who has visibly developed. If you have a different opinion just offer it instead of laying into me.

Evans? Don't you know my opinion? Your sudden u-turn and sympathy towards him is amusing given the way you had been slagging him off.

In general though I don't like your post to me Hallam and it 'requires' an appropriate answer. You and your angry, obsessive rants about Norwich on here and TWTD in the last few years ... and now you have an audacity to tell someone else that he comes across angry. At least my 'anger' is about MY CLUB and the way things have been going whereas you spend big part of your life ranting about Norwich on TWTD. You used to rant a lot about them on here too but people will have had enough. About Norwich where no matter how awful it sounds for you they have been doing much better than us in every aspect in the last 8 years.

Yes, EVERYTHING is doom and gloom for me. We got relegated, deservedly relegated for the way Evans has been running the club. We are going nowhere with him in charge. NOWHERE !!! Why would I pretend that things are going to be good in my opinion? Not going to pretend so you have no right to knock me for my opinion.

Of course I'd love be wrong and see my club progressing and rebuilding following years of destroying Evans' policy but I can't see it at the moment.

And yes I'll never stop going to matches no matter how s**t we are under Evans if you are interested !

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by hallamblue » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:19 pm

Mach, you can’t even respond to my post to you about your anger surrounding Town, without going into yet another major rant , and significant anger directed at me personally - why? What the hell has happened to you? You’re not rational anymore .

I don’t think it’s in either of our interests to meet at games now. But I sincerely wish you well in life. Take care.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by Mach_Polish_Blue » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:54 pm

Liz you got an answer and I'm not sure what else I could add to it. You have turned this debate to personal remarks so you got a few words back from me too. Leave my anger re ITFC and mind your own Norwich one.

Before you ask another stupid personal question think about yourself first as you're a full of hypocrisy. Your extraordinary anger re all things Norwich and posting about them for years for example.

I've been quietened down for my opinions for years by some. I'd been saying 2-3 years ago we'd get relegated with the way club is being run. Plenty of other reasons too like using Leon Best to replace Daryl Murphy for example ... some people have been trying to cool me out. Now we finally got relegated, I'm voicing my concerns and what? Some keep trying to cool me out and you are one of those.
I'm not here to please you or others with my opinions. It's a freedom of speech. When I see some positives from the club I'll put my comments about that.

If you don't wish to see me to meet before or during the games I'm not going to lose my sleep over it. Your choice and I respect that.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by barmy billy » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:44 pm

I'm probably not the best qualified person to say this, but I think it would be very sad if you two fall out. Whatever your differences, you are both totally committed to ITFC, but an unfortunate difference of opinions looks as though it may jeopardize things.

I really hope you can come to a point where you both accept each others opinions, but not let them come befween you.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by AylesburyBlue » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:51 am

Mach_Polish_Blue wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:15 pm
People have been bigging up our bunch of extremely overrated youngsters for years. The only one who has progressed is Lankester. No-one else. Some might mention Downes but he is an error prone one.
Bishop was gonna be a star for us according to somewasn't he? That eternal sicknote.

As for Evans he will never do wrong in the opinion of some. No matter how low we drop some will keep defending him. This is so bizarre. The only fanbase in the world where a football owner can have a nice, easy life.

Charlton's Roland Duchatelet hated by their fans for the way he runs the club. He'd have completely different life at Ipswich among such easy going fanbase.
Completely agree about the youngsters being overrated. Except for bishop who will never play enough games, and Lankester for who it’s still to early to judge, the rest are overrated and forgiven because then are ‘one of us’. Maybe league one will be there level... but if I was picking the team Dozzell, Downes, Kenlock, Mizouni, Nydam, Morris would be nowhere near the team. Wolfy, Ndaba, Emmanuel and Lankester on the bench.

Controversial opinion - Luke Hyam was a better CM than Downes and Nydam, he was also better at what he did than Dozzell is at what he is ‘supposed to do’. Although.... I acknowledge he was never fit long enough.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by tangfastic » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:51 am

AylesburyBlue wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:51 am
Mach_Polish_Blue wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:15 pm
People have been bigging up our bunch of extremely overrated youngsters for years. The only one who has progressed is Lankester. No-one else. Some might mention Downes but he is an error prone one.
Bishop was gonna be a star for us according to somewasn't he? That eternal sicknote.

As for Evans he will never do wrong in the opinion of some. No matter how low we drop some will keep defending him. This is so bizarre. The only fanbase in the world where a football owner can have a nice, easy life.

Charlton's Roland Duchatelet hated by their fans for the way he runs the club. He'd have completely different life at Ipswich among such easy going fanbase.
Completely agree about the youngsters being overrated. Except for bishop who will never play enough games, and Lankester for who it’s still to early to judge, the rest are overrated and forgiven because then are ‘one of us’. Maybe league one will be there level... but if I was picking the team Dozzell, Downes, Kenlock, Mizouni, Nydam, Morris would be nowhere near the team. Wolfy, Ndaba, Emmanuel and Lankester on the bench.

Controversial opinion - Luke Hyam was a better CM than Downes and Nydam, he was also better at what he did than Dozzell is at what he is ‘supposed to do’. Although.... I acknowledge he was never fit long enough.
Maybe, but the biggest factor is we’re dropping down a level and some of them have to come good. I’ll back Kenlock and Downes for now to make an impact. I can see Lankester in and out of the team whilst he’s getting stronger and maybe struggling with fitness. Dozzell is the one whose reputation exceeds his output the most.

A big IF, but if players are fit then you could put a first eleven out there who are not academy players.

We’ll need the academy players more through covering for injuries. I must admit... I think the academy is a bit over-rated and much of it is down to youngsters getting capped at youth level. Is that possibly down to our academy’s reputation or someone like Klug having some pull over selection? I mean someone Dylan Crowe keeps on getting picked for England under 18’s, yet he can’t get near our League 1 squad.
It would be great if 2-3 of the kids become regulars next season and make an impact. The jury’s out until next season.

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Re: Sobering thought for Town fans .... ?

Post by Mach_Polish_Blue » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:42 pm

AylesburyBlue wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:51 am

Completely agree about the youngsters being overrated. Except for bishop who will never play enough games, and Lankester for who it’s still to early to judge, the rest are overrated and forgiven because then are ‘one of us’. Maybe league one will be there level... but if I was picking the team Dozzell, Downes, Kenlock, Mizouni, Nydam, Morris would be nowhere near the team. Wolfy, Ndaba, Emmanuel and Lankester on the bench.

Controversial opinion - Luke Hyam was a better CM than Downes and Nydam, he was also better at what he did than Dozzell is at what he is ‘supposed to do’. Although.... I acknowledge he was never fit long enough.
Bishop yes we all 'feel sorry' for him but the questions need to be raised if he has required attributes to be a professional footballer. His injury record is beyond ridiculous.Year after year after year there is always some long term injury. How long can it continue?

Dozzell in particular pisses me off. Yeah he had had a year out of the game due to the injury but he wasn't even able to be a regular in that shambolic team last season. Only two good moments, the goal against Leeds and the pass to Quaner against Bolton that had given us a second goal. Loads of people have been bigging him up, talking of him as if he was already a world beater...... all of that just because he is a son of Jason so that meant he was going to be a prodigy for us.

Even though I didn't like Hyam's contribution I kind of agree with you that he had done better at what he is supposed to do than Dozzell.

Number of our fans are so, so blinkered about our youngsters. For the vast majority of these youngsters playing senior football is like hitting a brick wall. It's very likely that they are going to bullied and outmuscled by some seasoned League One players.

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