They mock us but......

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Bluemike
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They mock us but......

Post by Bluemike » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:19 pm

I see the scum have revealed a 34 Million loss in their latest accounts released a few days ago, interesting how some of our fans often use them as a yardstick to beat their own club with, christ we may be 100+ million in debt but at least that built up over many many years, never have we ever lost a Third of it in Twelve months !!! Amazing what difference no parachute money makes for the grubby farmhands and their "well run, model club", just a shame they are due more of these parachute payments for failing again, starting next May.

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by hallamblue » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:37 pm

Exactly Mike. I thought I’d heard a long while ago that had they not sold Maddison for £25m they would have gone into administration that particular season . The jammy barstards get promoted and will no doubt get relegated again only to have yet more money for failure. I think someone on TWTD was saying recently that scum have been actively looking for further investment. Seems things are not all that rosy across the boarder eh 👍

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by derick_ipsw » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:19 am

Bluemike wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:19 pm
I see the scum have revealed a 34 Million loss in their latest accounts released a few days ago, interesting how some of our fans often use them as a yardstick to beat their own club with, christ we may be 100+ million in debt but at least that built up over many many years, never have we ever lost a Third of it in Twelve months !!! Amazing what difference no parachute money makes for the grubby farmhands and their "well run, model club", just a shame they are due more of these parachute payments for failing again, starting next May.
The 100 million they get this year will take care of that. Unfortunately that is why the Premier League and Sky Tv have ruined football.

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by Dubai Blue » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:29 am

Bluemike wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:19 pm
I see the scum have revealed a 34 Million loss in their latest accounts released a few days ago, interesting how some of our fans often use them as a yardstick to beat their own club with, christ we may be 100+ million in debt but at least that built up over many many years, never have we ever lost a Third of it in Twelve months !!! Amazing what difference no parachute money makes for the grubby farmhands and their "well run, model club", just a shame they are due more of these parachute payments for failing again, starting next May.
Mike, please let's stop these mentions that we are £100m in debt. ME bought the main debt from Aviva at deeply discounted price. He only gets it back if we get to the promised land. If we don't or he sells out the debt will never be paid.

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by marko69 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:02 am

Dubai Blue wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:29 am
He only gets it back if we get to the promised land.
Making it even more of a head scratcher that he didn’t invest “a little” when top at Xmas with Mick.

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by Bluemike » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:17 am

:cry:
Dubai Blue wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:29 am
Bluemike wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:19 pm
I see the scum have revealed a 34 Million loss in their latest accounts released a few days ago, interesting how some of our fans often use them as a yardstick to beat their own club with, christ we may be 100+ million in debt but at least that built up over many many years, never have we ever lost a Third of it in Twelve months !!! Amazing what difference no parachute money makes for the grubby farmhands and their "well run, model club", just a shame they are due more of these parachute payments for failing again, starting next May.
Mike, please let's stop these mentions that we are £100m in debt. ME bought the main debt from Aviva at deeply discounted price. He only gets it back if we get to the promised land. If we don't or he sells out the debt will never be paid.
As a business venture ITFC have racked up over 100 million in debt, that should be a concern to any fan, whether it is ever paid back or not is irrelevant to me, it's a shocking sum of money through negligent leadership I think the original amount he bought fromAviva was around the 38 million mark ? .

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by tangfastic » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:36 am

marko69 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:02 am
Dubai Blue wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:29 am
He only gets it back if we get to the promised land.
Making it even more of a head scratcher that he didn’t invest “a little” when top at Xmas with Mick.
Yes, there were a couple of years when a decent January investment could have strengthened us to get over the line. I think I’ve read somewhere that this was not Evans’ decision alone - I think it was in consultation with Mick, too. I’ve always felt Mick was a little too content with ‘doing wonders on a shoestring’. He did do a good job actually in that respect and was very keen to tell us and everyone else he was.

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by Ricco » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:19 pm

I'm not trying to argue with anyone, because a well run club is something to cherish, but a football club is not meant to run like a knitting shop, it's not about making a small reliable profit every year and pottering along gently.

Where would Tesla be now if they decided to run like a knitting shop and didn't invest money, take a massive risk, lose HUGE amounts of money in order to compete with the other car making giants? Nowhere is exactly where, and they've now just declared a $143,000,000 profit in the last quarter. I'm not saying they will be an incredible success going forward, it's a tough market, but you get my point.

If you want to compete with VW you have to risk vulgar amounts of money, similarly if you want to compete with Manchester United you have to risk vulgar amounts of money.

Yes Norwich's £35m is a massive loss in a single year, but considering promotion to the Premier League is meant to be worth £200m, then it can be considered a gamble very well spent.

That has been my point many times over the last few years of Evans' frugality, money invested in to a club should be considered exactly that... an investment... a gamble. People feeling sorry for Evans', people considering him a saviour, nope, he was here to take a risk, invest some money in hope of making a large profit, that's it. It didn't work, hard luck, but he would have calculated the odds, he would have known there was a significant chance of failure.

Now what I have complained about is his change of approach...

Say you buy a £40 ticket to watch Ipswich in a few weeks, but before the game you lose your ticket, what do you do? Curse your luck and listen at home, or do you spend £40 on another ticket? Well at that point you're in the same position as you were at the start, you have the opportunity to spend £40 to watch Ipswich, so the wise thing to do is to buy another ticket. What you absolutely wouldn't do is go to the ground with £2 or £3 in your pocket and try and get lucky and see if you can get in, it won't work, and that is exactly what Evan's tried to do in our last few Championship years with McCarthy and Hurst and look where it got us, we got kicked out the league like you'd get kicked out the stadium. Look where Norwich are now, even look what Leicester have managed if you want to take bias out of the equation and consider Norwich had a chance of doing that, and look where we are and where we could be if we didn't get lucky with getting Lambert? That £35m doesn't look so stupid to me.

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by number 9 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:56 pm

Ricco, Tesla reached that profit margin in ludicrous speed! :lol:

Hear what you're saying about investment, but ME's approach will never change during his ownership. I'd love to see us bounce straight back into the Championship and maybe attract another investor. I know ME seemingly saved us from administration, but he's not committed enough to run a football club...in my opinion. He's content with knitting jumpers with uneven arms and woolly hats with crooked tops! :lol:

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by Bluemike » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:21 pm

Ricco wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:19 pm
I'm not trying to argue with anyone, because a well run club is something to cherish, but a football club is not meant to run like a knitting shop, it's not about making a small reliable profit every year and pottering along gently.

Where would Tesla be now if they decided to run like a knitting shop and didn't invest money, take a massive risk, lose HUGE amounts of money in order to compete with the other car making giants? Nowhere is exactly where, and they've now just declared a $143,000,000 profit in the last quarter. I'm not saying they will be an incredible success going forward, it's a tough market, but you get my point.

If you want to compete with VW you have to risk vulgar amounts of money, similarly if you want to compete with Manchester United you have to risk vulgar amounts of money.

Yes Norwich's £35m is a massive loss in a single year, but considering promotion to the Premier League is meant to be worth £200m, then it can be considered a gamble very well spent.

That has been my point many times over the last few years of Evans' frugality, money invested in to a club should be considered exactly that... an investment... a gamble. People feeling sorry for Evans', people considering him a saviour, nope, he was here to take a risk, invest some money in hope of making a large profit, that's it. It didn't work, hard luck, but he would have calculated the odds, he would have known there was a significant chance of failure.

Now what I have complained about is his change of approach...

Say you buy a £40 ticket to watch Ipswich in a few weeks, but before the game you lose your ticket, what do you do? Curse your luck and listen at home, or do you spend £40 on another ticket? Well at that point you're in the same position as you were at the start, you have the opportunity to spend £40 to watch Ipswich, so the wise thing to do is to buy another ticket. What you absolutely wouldn't do is go to the ground with £2 or £3 in your pocket and try and get lucky and see if you can get in, it won't work, and that is exactly what Evan's tried to do in our last few Championship years with McCarthy and Hurst and look where it got us, we got kicked out the league like you'd get kicked out the stadium. Look where Norwich are now, even look what Leicester have managed if you want to take bias out of the equation and consider Norwich had a chance of doing that, and look where we are and where we could be if we didn't get lucky with getting Lambert? That £35m doesn't look so stupid to me.
And this is where the problem lies in modern day football, the average man in the street cares not if we lose Millions and Millions whilst taking a gamble in the hope that it proves successful, for me that is a terrible viewpoint. Of course Evans wanted to buy into it and make money, who in their right mind buys a business to do anything else ?? You really can't compare a football club with any other kind of business venture because they are a law unto themselves and get away with things the large majority of businesses would not.

I am not even convinced that is what Evans tried to do in the last few championship years, only a year and a half back he was paying 1.7 Million for Kayden Jackson, I haven't seen that too often in the past, yes some will say it is cus of player sales but we are no different to any other club in that regard, apart from the fact most do not have 100 Million debt and rising, we do, many also seem to forget we have been in Administration before, you can't do it twice without serious serious repercussions and as such at times our hands are tied, Marcus Evans made the interview last season and spelled it all out as to why he CANNOT spend more than what he is, many choose to poo poo it because it makes for a good argument against him, the fact is rules are rules.

It doesn't sit well with me that when we did go into Admin many other people suffered through our inability to pay our creditors, god sake we even shafted the local St John's Ambulance Brigade but I guess as long as us fans are happy with pissing away Millions on a gamble then it doesn't matter about anyone else, as a business owner I know what it is bloody well like when someone else does the dirty on you, it gives you a whole new and more balanced approach.

For what it is worth I am glad we don't go throwing money around like many would like us to do, I am comfortable with the approach we take, frustrating it might be but sensible and correct it is, anyhow you don't have to spend money to get decent players at the level we play at, Norwood and Garbutt being classic examples. The argument will rage forever about if we had just spent this or that at any given time we could have been so much better off but who says so ? It would have been nothing more than another gamble and a few more Million on the hideous debt which i guess doesn't matter as apparently it will never be paid back. Thankfully sense seems to prevail at the moment and the risk of us becoming the next Bury or Bolton is small.....at the moment.

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by marko69 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:48 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:21 pm
The argument will rage forever about if we had just spent this or that......
I think maybe there was only one major time frame that people mainly talk about and that was the play-off season.

But....... the pessimistic cartoon little devil version of Marcus Evans would’ve been standing on his shoulders, hands on hips, voice like a parrot; “Remember Keane, Remember Priskin. Remember Keane, Remember Priskin......”

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by Bluemike » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:13 pm

marko69 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:48 pm
Bluemike wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:21 pm
The argument will rage forever about if we had just spent this or that......
I think maybe there was only one major time frame that people mainly talk about and that was the play-off season.

But....... the pessimistic cartoon little devil version of Marcus Evans would’ve been standing on his shoulders, hands on hips, voice like a parrot; “Remember Keane, Remember Priskin. Remember Keane, Remember Priskin......”
Exactly Marko, and we should remember them, just as we should Paul Taylor for 1.6 Million, etc etc etc, people have short memories.

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by Ricco » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:45 pm

number 9 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:56 pm
I know ME seemingly saved us from administration, but he's not committed enough to run a football club...in my opinion. He's content with knitting jumpers with uneven arms and woolly hats with crooked tops! :lol:
Exactly :lol: This is more of what I mean when I think and talk about Evans, is his heart in it, can his heart be in it?

Ok in an effort to not polarise things, I agree Mike, I completely get where you're coming from and although that doesn't align with what I posted I'm certainly not saying I think ME should have done a Tesla or a Norwich and carelessly continue to throw money at things, but what I am saying is that that is what we are up against and if you can't beat them, join them. It is up to the football authorities to put an end to clubs taking such huge financial risks and they can't relegate all of the top 50 teams, you just have to not be among the worst offenders (or summat like that!).

What I'm really saying is that if we don't try and compete at some level we won't even be in the conversation when they start waving around salary caps, point deductions and what not because we'll be 3 divisions down. We were among the lowest spenders in the league for years and years, we got what we paid for, relegation. It's also not just buying players like Jackson, it's the players we let go, whether that was poor judgement or poor management, the criticism buck stops with Evans, he has to be seen to have the clout to do what his manager wants, say no to clubs and attract players.

Last thing is obviously risking a Bury or Bolton, but if we're too tight with the purse strings we could end up nearly as screwed up.

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by Ricco » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:50 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:13 pm
Exactly Marko, and we should remember them, just as we should Paul Taylor for 1.6 Million, etc etc etc, people have short memories.
Like we should remember Mings, Cresswell, Wickham, Webster, etc etc etc

Just those 4 were £30m+ that makes Priskin, Jackson and Taylor look like pocket change in comparison.

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by Bluemike » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:40 pm

Well that covers a few years of the 7 Million Evans has to pump in every season to keep us in business.

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by Ando » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:05 am

Mingus money went on improved player contracts eg McGoldrick and Murphy

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by Ricco » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:07 am

Bluemike wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:40 pm
Well that covers a few years of the 7 Million Evans has to pump in every season to keep us in business.
Fine, but you don't win things through breaking even by selling your best assets, nor do you make profits.

Anyway, don't argue with me, argue with the 20 out of 24 club owners who considered it to make business sense to invest more than Marcus Evans during all those years or stagnation!

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by Bluemike » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:48 am

Its a debate not an argument isn't it ? How many of those 20 were successful?

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by Ricco » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:43 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:48 am
Its a debate not an argument isn't it ? How many of those 20 were successful?
We can debate, they'd probably argue! Depends what you're basing success on really. Let's be honest it's a very complicated issue, I don't have the figures of what clubs did what, I may look in to it one day, but I do know who I'd be betting on, and it wouldn't be the teams that invested even less than Evans, we're probably sharing a division with them now!

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by Bluemike » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:02 pm

I think part of the issue is that his investment is greater than we think, unfortunately due to our circumstances a lot of it goes in areas other clubs don't have to worry about, hideous debt for example, as we know there's been investment in the training facilities and other such things, but yes player investment has been very low.

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by hallamblue » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:24 pm

But hasn’t the Club now made a very conscious decision to go down the road of “ developing our own”? Evans , I believe has been putting more into the Academy, and since Klug returned to the Club, and certainly since Lambert has become manager the pathway from the various academy teams through to the senior squad is now seamless. The ethos of getting ball down and playing it appears to run through the Club , whatever age group you look at . That was certainly not the case under McCarthy. The Club are endeavouring to build a squad of home grown players, which will have cost a fair amount of investment by the Club. But what Clubs like ours require is protection from the big boys coming in a essentially stealing these players and now paying us anywhere near what it’s probably cost us to develop that player, or what his future worth will be. The PL Clubs are frankly taking the p*ss, and Evans has raised this issue on more than one occasion I believe but the powder puffs that run the game choose not to listen.

Over the last 2-3 seasons I the Club has forged links with the medical centre of excellence in Doha, ( 2 players this season already having benefited from interventions there). Evans picks up the bill for that, and it won’t be cheap. So I guess what I’m trying to say, is “ investment “ can take in many guises other than spending £m’s on a player in an over inflated and sky money distorted, transfer market, which we simply can’t compete in ( until we get into the “Sky Club” that is the Premier League).

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by marko69 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:40 pm

One word with two hyphens......

HALLAM-STEPHEN KING-BLUE! :lol:

Wow, that’s a novella, Dawling!!. A tad too many buds drunk to contemplate. Will read in the morning. 👍

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by Bluemike » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:20 pm

Exactly what I was alluding to Hallam, his investment goes way beyond players

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by hallamblue » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:39 pm

marko69 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:40 pm
One word with two hyphens......

HALLAM-STEPHEN KING-BLUE! :lol:

Wow, that’s a novella, Dawling!!. A tad too many buds drunk to contemplate. Will read in the morning. 👍


So have I marko....hence the length of the post !!! :lol: 🥂

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by hallamblue » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:40 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:20 pm
Exactly what I was alluding to Hallam, his investment goes way beyond players


The Imps manager apparently said Towns equaliser was a “ fortuitous cross”, by Dozzell? Lol was that so?

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Re: They mock us but......

Post by Bluemike » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:31 pm

tw*t, it was the only decent thing Dozzell did all afternoon, despite Lamberts comments that he was very good.

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