Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

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Kerry Blue
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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Kerry Blue » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:19 pm

I live in the Eastern Algarve and I know it won't last but at the moment the supermarkets are busy but well stocked and not many confirmed cases of the virus but I expect that will soon change.😷

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marko69
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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by marko69 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:58 pm

I have a buddy who lives close to Tesco. Messaged him to look at the carpark, let me know if it’s busy.
His text reply:
“Aw right mate aye it’s not as busy as earlier. Was mobbed around 4pm. No bog roll but strangely lots of tissues? I’m misunderstanding this coronavirus. Can you not wipe your arse with anything other than bog roll if you get it?”

I laughed, but I really think he was serious.

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Charnwood
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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Charnwood » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:44 am

Frosty wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:50 am
Charnwood wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:42 am
I can take the footie being off but from midnight tonight we’re on complete lock down here and a full state of emergency.

All restaurants, bars, sports facilities, golf courses, schools, public buildings, shops, (except supermarkets and pharmacies) absolutely everything closed.

All but essential travel banned, next review in 14 days.

Hmmmm, that's not good from a breadcrumb supply point of view Andy. :wink:

Don't know whether you can do it in Spain, but online supermarket shopping took the problem away for us when people were going mad in the supermarkets down here.

Take care mate.

Cheers Frosty. The situation has moved on since this morning, we’re now locked down at home and only allowed out for emergencies which includes food shopping, visits to a pharmacy, hospital and atm etc. Even retail is closed and all beaches. Anyone driving cars are subject to road blocks and checks that journeys are essential. Armed forces deployed to help the police and Guardia Civil. The PM here has massive public support for the action taken, only time will tell if it produces results.

Just hope the Premier League give Liverpool the title and relegate Norwich, can’t do one without the other. I guess you need a precedent set to become our Prediction League Champion 2020!

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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Bluemike » Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:50 am

By Dr. Sharkawy On COVID-19:

“I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too. Can you even
imagine?

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it.

Dr. Alexander Roth
thinks that the post written by Dr. Sharkaway is very important for the people of our country.

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Charnwood
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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Charnwood » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:00 am

I think you’ll find Dr Sharkaway has updated his position over the past few days and suggested the time has come to restrict all but essential travel.

As for family gatherings and reunions he definitely needs a rethink. The start of the Coronavirus spread in Northern Spain was traced back to a funeral in Haro where 60 attendees all contacted the virus and all took it back home with them. We all know what happened next to lead Spain to take the measures announced last night.

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Ricco
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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Ricco » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:33 am

Yes, it's important to point out he's not saying that everyone is overreacting and this virus is nothing, only that panic does not help. I don't see panic myself, yes I see a few idiots hoarding and being selfish, but it's hardly mass panic that requires force to suppress!!!

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Ricco
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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Ricco » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:36 am

Plus he's one specialist among many many thousands equally qualified, it's important not just to pick and choose who's opinion fits and suits ours the best.

Not saying this is you at all by the way BM, I know your post wasn't to this effect at all, but there's loads of people who don't want to change their behaviour seeking out false bits of information like "it's only flu", so they don't have to change or be put out, we see exactly the same in climate change arguments.

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marko69
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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by marko69 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:16 pm

Ricco wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:33 am
Yes, it's important to point out he's not saying that everyone is overreacting and this virus is nothing, only that panic does not help. I don't see panic myself, yes I see a few idiots hoarding and being selfish, but it's hardly mass panic that requires force to suppress!!!
On the contrary. I see the beginnings of mass panic. I was up early today (8am) only to get the papers and milk and the place was mobbed, ready for the doors opening. I left.

My son in London: “Asda was like ants crawling over decayed meat.”

Might not be full mass panic, but it’s gettinh there.

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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Ando » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:05 pm

marko69 wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:58 pm
Yes, that Will Smith movie about zombies has sprung to mind. Soon we shall be fighting in the streets over paracetamol and toilet paper. It is certainly getting ever so slightly out of control.
More like Tennents in Scotland 😉

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Ricco
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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Ricco » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:10 pm

marko69 wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:16 pm
On the contrary. I see the beginnings of mass panic. I was up early today (8am) only to get the papers and milk and the place was mobbed, ready for the doors opening. I left.

My son in London: “Asda was like ants crawling over decayed meat.”

Might not be full mass panic, but it’s gettinh there.
:lol: I think people round here might be too dim to realise there's anything going on!!

But surely it's only a short period of panic anyway? It's not like people are using more of the stuff, so once they're stocked up it'll all quieten down again and restock more than ever?? Who knows...

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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by marko69 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:15 pm

Ricco....... it’s serious.
Read this:

Limit lists:
————-
Tesco: 24 toilet rolls, 1 hand wash, 1 hand wipes

Asda: 12 toilet rolls, 2 hand wash, 1 box rice

Morrison’s: 12 toilet rolls, 1 hand wipes, 2 boxes rice

Aldi: 2 trumpets, 1 diving suit, 1 MIG welder

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Ricco
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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Ricco » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:37 pm

:lol: :lol:

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Bluemike
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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Bluemike » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:54 pm

I think the main point of my post was to emphasise that the virus itself is not to be taken lightly at all but to accept the large majority of us will be fine even if we get it, what I totally agree with is the bit about how we as a race will, indeed already are starting to make it much much worse than it needs to be. I would suggest the government shuts down all newspaper production with immediate effect as this is causing ridiculous mass hysteria, I fully agree with stopping flights etc for a period of time, it's common sense but the way it is being dealt with is crazy.

These idiots who are stockpiling food, medicines and god knows what are more likely to kill the vulnerable than the virus itself will due to selfishness and greed all brought about by ignorance due to scaremongering. Asa result people who don't agree with stockpiling are then forced to do the same with little choice.

Tomorrow I will get up and go to work in a hospital the same as I always do, putting myself at daily risk for people in need of care, most of these people I am happy to be there for and help, and then there are the bloody morons who just make it worse.

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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Charnwood » Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:38 pm

I don’t want to start a political debate here but our Government doesn’t inspire much confidence. I thought Brexit was very much about controlling our borders and had we done so sooner being an Island we could have done so much more to reduce the impact of this virus.

I can’t explain why but there seems to be far less panic and hysteria here in Spain than there is in the UK and we have a much larger problem at the moment.

Hopefully people will come together and help those most vulnerable or in need whether that be by kindness or generosity.

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Ricco
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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Ricco » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:11 pm

Well New Zealand are seemingly doing that now, but then they have a lot less traffic coming in and a far smaller, less international economy to worry about.

The thing is, to stamp out or stop this virus would have taken so much, it would've brought the country to it's knees financially and even then you're only really delaying it, the only thing that would help in that scenario is a vaccine, and that's not coming any time soon and is certainly not guaranteed.

The best option may well be to introduce the virus to the population as quick as possible to get it over and done with, but slow enough for the NHS to cope, that's the game the politicians are playing I believe. Go too drastic too soon with the controls and you prolonging the damage and turmoil, do it too late and you've got too many sick people to offer them the correct level of care. Only hindsight will tell which countries have got it right, seems Italy cocked it right up.

As for a panic, I don't know, the brits love a bit of drama!

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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by goldandblack » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:06 pm

Well you know its getting really serious in Germany now. theve started getting up early to put their towels on the hospital beds, :D

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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Andym » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:20 pm

goldandblack wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:06 pm
Well you know its getting really serious in Germany now. theve started getting up early to put their towels on the hospital beds, :D
😂😂😂

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Charnwood
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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Charnwood » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:32 pm

Ohiotractorboy wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:15 pm
Agree with you Ashford, and I am tired of getting yelled down by panicked individuals and being reminded, "IT'S NO THE FLU!!!!" every time I bring it up.

We had more people die of Opioids a few weekends back here in C-Bus than has died in the entire state from beerflu
Good to see you back Ohio, miss you on the Pred League this year. But back on topic of conversation, I thought taking Opioids was a personal choice ?

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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Ohiotractorboy » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:56 am

Sorry Charnie, just saw this. Yes, taking opioids is a personal choice. I was saying a month ago that the numbers didn't add up to all this lockdown, and a month later I stand by it even more. The numbers the WHO put out were way off, and the models the doctors over here used were not even in the same state, let alone ballpark.

At this point, about 16,000 Ohioans have it out of a total of 8.3 million in the state. That means about 99.8 percent of Ohioans do not have the virus. That is no where near the 150 million dead around the world pandemic that they stated about 8 weeks ago. What is real is the rise of drug abuse, domestic violence, suicides, depression, and economic ruination that has occurred due to this.

I am still so sick of getting yelled down every time I point out these numbers are the same as the flu every year. The only pandemic we have is panic.

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Ricco
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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Ricco » Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:07 pm

Ohiotractorboy wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:56 am
I am still so sick of getting yelled down every time I point out these numbers are the same as the flu every year. The only pandemic we have is panic.
If you're getting disagreed with so much that you're getting sick of it, mightn't it be wise to consider that those people (many of who are far more qualified to hold an opinion than you or I) may have a point??

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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by marko69 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:08 pm

Not disagreeing with you Ricco...... at all..... but you do know Ohiotractorboy is a high ranking police officer? He’ll be informed on some level from a health perspective but extremely informed on the day to day issues of how this is affecting everyone. Even here in Edinburgh, the police are finding things much more difficult, AND we’re supposed to be locked down.

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number 9
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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by number 9 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:51 pm

Latest estimates put total deaths x8 more than seasonal flu. That's quite a difference although I do agree with Ohio to some degree that the pandemic has been blown way out of proportion...but I'm assuming that response is more precautionary than fact. This is why I support a slow, reopening of society because people need to begin getting their lives back together; or as Ohio has pointed out, there will be severe increases in other societal problems which in fact are already occurring. Once there's a vaccine and effective treatment for Covid 19, it will be treated like seasonal flu.

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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Ricco » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:53 pm

I would imagine a Police Officer would be exposed more to Police issues and therefore feel and empathise with them more strongly than perhaps health issues would to the equivalent in the healthcare field.

It would be very rude for me to make assumptions about you and your views Ohio, so I apologise and will stop, but I think the above one is fair and completely understandable.

I was more saying that perhaps those more qualified than us who are constantly bleating, almost in unison, that this is a serious issue and the lockdowns in place are justified, shouldn't be trumped by our own opinions and experiences.

Statistics do back the severity also, it's irrefutably incorrect to think otherwise. Yes currently the Coronavirus has killed comparable amounts of people as the flu, but that is simply not a strong enough reason to treat those two things the same.

If Russia invaded Kent and killed 2,000 people, we wouldn't say "well traffic accidents kill 2,000 people, therefore Russian threat = traffic accident threat lets largely ignore it". Our knowledge would instead suggest that the Russia problem could continue and escalate, many many more could be killed, perhaps millions. That's the main simplified point with this coronavirus, it is that it will become far far bigger if we don't try and curtail it in various ways, just because the numbers are similar to the flu now, I can absolutely beyond doubt and backed by a million statistics and bits of evidence say that it would completely dwarf flu in the damage it does if we loosed restriction incorrectly or prematurely, perhaps in a panic because of other social problems.

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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by marko69 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:31 pm

That is a well worded post, Ricco. I do like the Russian invasion paragraph. 👍

Society as we know it does feel...... (and not to be overly dramatic)...... a bit f*cked at the moment.

What makes me feel a bit sad is reading that after Spanish Flu, it took decades for a sense of normality to resume (before WW2 fkd it all again)....., decades? People my age (50) or over may have a little “oh God, ife is over” feeling.

Just get McDonald’s the f*ck open again and I’ll be sorted. 👍

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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Ohiotractorboy » Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:49 pm

I am open to other viewpoints, Ricco, that is why I don't shout THEM down when they say theirs. But it almost an involuntary reaction if you mention, "flu" people automatically cut you off saying it's not the flu. How would they know?

My problem with all this is simple numbers. I understand it is a terrible disease to the ones who are terribly affected by it. I do know a nurse who stated she witnessed a patient die of a heart attack and they rang it up to carona virus. From the outset, they said that it had a 3% death rate...then went on to say they didn't know how many people actually had the virus. No one thought to ask how you can assign a definitive death rate to an unknown sample size? As time has gone on, it is nowhere even near that. I also know of two friends who most likely had it clear back in early February, before all this social distancing, and there was no spike then.

I agree with Bluemike's repost of the doctor above...the panic has been huge during this whole event. One lady actually got into a fight with another lady at a grocery store because she got within six feet of her. They had left by the time we arrived, but I did ask the manager if he reminded the lady who wanted to fight that she had to get within six feet herself to do so. It reminds me of the media in 2003 when they turned against the war in Iraq over here and they started to report on a daily basis how many soldiers were killed. It made people believe that the entire army was being wiped out.

I appreciate the words from Marko, but I am not too high ranking, nor am I touting my position to say I am any smarter than the next person. I am just saying that there are a lot of people who fear this has gone too far as far as psychological, and economic damage to people is very real. Never mind the fact the governors and mayors are trouncing all over our First Amendment.

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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Ricco » Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:00 pm

I think the death toll as a percentage of infection is very hard to work out as very few places have sampled a large slice of their population without bias (i.e. testing a random large sample of people, not just the sick), which is shortsighted.

I guess they're also sticking to the side of caution because you can get to a tipping point where so many people have it, that a lockdown is ineffective, healthcare is overwhelmed and it will continue to spread because there are vital services that have to continue to run to stop people starving and rioting.

I agree psychological and economical damage is a very real problem, but they will have factored that in to the equation, we both have right wing governments at the moment, they will not ignore the economy without very good reason. I will say that mental health actually improved in the world wars, large portions who were depressed (often caused by having insufficient meaning in their lives) suddenly had a meaning and felt part of something important, I won't begin to say that's the case with this, but use it to highlight that we don't know. So I don't know the impact on mental health, and perhaps not many do, but we certainly do know the impact on physical health would be if we let it run riot and that is worse.

Everything in between is debatable and we will only know the answers in hindsight, so in the mean time isn't it better to have over reacted and in time loosen lockdowns when it's proved it's not too bad, rather than under-react and have dead bodies literally pilling up in the street, people fighting over resources, and the damage that would do to the economy an societies vs what is currently happening?

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Re: Well I’m picking that’s football over for the season then!

Post by Andym » Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:46 pm

As you say we don't know the percentage dying as we haven't tested well enough. Equally we don't know the percentage of the population infected.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it appears we in England were slow to react and due to underfunding of the NHS were very short of protective equipment despite repeated warnings of the probability of a pandemic at some time soon.

In the absence of a vaccine, there are only 2 choices; allow it to spread through the country and see how many die, or try to control the spread in some way.

I think the UK government considered the first option, but overestimated the health of the nation. Like many wealthy countries, we have a high percentage of people who are obese, have poor diets, smoke and drink too much and don't exercise - all factors likely to increase the chances of death from the virus. Johnson was very lucky as he is clinically obese.

Once we got beyond the possibility of control through testing anyone likely to have the disease and all those they had been in contact with, the only alternative to herd immunity was some sort of control - and that had to be such that the infection rate was brought below 1. But what next? As long as there are people carrying the virus, any relaxing of the lockdown will presumably see the figure increase and so the numbers infected will rise again, leading to further lockdown…...or going for herd immunity again. Increasing testing will undoubtedly help but I really struggle to see a way out of it. I suspect herd immunity is the only solution, but attempting to keep the rate of infection slow enough to allow the NHS to cope. I think I heard tonight that roughly one third of those hospitalised are actually dying. So maybe we don't bother the NHS....just allow people to die at home.

The problem is that we have forgotten that years ago we accepted that we would die from some illnesses, e.g. TB. Cancer was a death sentence. Not any more. We expect there to be cures for everything. That is clearly not true.

So what do we do? Let it spread and kill thousands more or protect people in the hope we might get a vaccine in the next 12 months (assuming the virus doesn't' mutate too much in the meantime....)?

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