So how are we all feeling folks?

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Frosty
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So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Frosty » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:20 pm

This is the wrong topic for this forum, but what the hell, things have changed and there is no football anyway.

Just wondered how everyone was feeling at the moment as the world feels like its changed thanks to Covid19?

Today the national carrier (Air New Zealand) announced it has stopped 85% of it's international services and will lay off a third of its work force. It's basically bankrupt if the government wasn't its majority shareholder.

The government has basically closed the border for 2 weeks (that's like giving an elephant a strawberry as we know this will be around for ages), stopped all cruise ships and imposed compulsory 2 week self isolation for anyone entering the country which can be enforced.

Our largest industry (tourism) is dead in the water which will affect a huge part of the workforce.

The share market has tanked, the economy is going into recession, the tax take will be down for the government which will affect future social policy.

Sky NZ will probably fold as let's face it, most of us subscribe for sport which isn't coming back anytime soon.

The government will attempt financial stimulous, but the problem is too big for this to be sustainable and will create future debt.

People are hoarding toilet paper which is running supermarkets out, hilarious, we have more f**king trees than we know what to do with and a giant toilet paper plant which is singing ragtime.

People are worried, and I understand why to a degree, this conovirus is dangerous to the old and people with underlying conditions, but we have 8 cases in total, all came into the country infected already. So far there is no reported community transmission.

I read that in the UK that except for isolating the vunerable members of society, the idea/proposal is to let it spread and let herd immunity ultimately deal with the issue, how do you feel about that?

Are we right to change the way we live when we know that eventually a vaccine/cure will no doubt be available?

Has this whole Covid19 problem taken on a life of it's own, or should we be following China's (or Italy to some degree) somewhat draconian approach to try and control it?

I consider many of you that use this forum friends (hopefully one day I can meet more of you in person), so I am just interested what peoples take/feeling on all this is at the moment.

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by nicscreamer » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:27 pm

Morning Frosty

Its a tough one mate. I have a business that looks after hospital equipment and I am still being asked to carry on as usual to help them maintain their services. I am a small business employing 12 people and im worried that my staff will get infected and then I wont be able to carry out our works, money dries up, I go tits.
Aside from hat, I have 80 year old parents and im desperate for them to look after themselves and stay safe.
I think we need a measured approach but the UK gov seems to be slow in taking the lead here. It was sport that cancelled itself and last night the Stereophonics stilled played in Wales - Mental.
The economy is tanking big time, and businesses big and small will fail in their masses. Its a changed world already and I cant see it being back to anywhere near normal for a long long time. I hope all of us see this through to the other side.
Stay safe, be sensible.

When this is over, we may not know if we overreacted, but we will sure as hell know if we didn't!

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Ricco
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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Ricco » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:10 pm

It is tricky, I work in biomedical at a University and only this morning we had a request sent around internally from Public Health England asking that those trained in DNA extraction and PCR analysis would consider temporarily relocating to London to train up specifically to work on COVID-19 and help out...

The thing is Frosty, it was only a matter of days ago that the UK had about 8 cases, and only a matter of days since Trump's speech saying the US only had 12 cases and they were on top of it and decreasing it down to 0 (they now have 3,800 confirmed cases). I hope that's it for NZ, but I find it extremely unlikely it will remain that way, they would have to put up some pretty extreme measures to manage it and it's very likely many have got through the net already.

China have done great in delaying it, but at huge cost, cases will more than likely skyrocket again once they realise they can't pin everyone down forever and loosen the chains.

Vaccine's traditionally take 15-20 years to produce and are not guaranteed. Of course there are scientists all over the world working on this now, but nothing is certain, there are risks in rushing vaccines.

Sorry if I sound doom and gloom, but I've just had some numpty coughing and spluttering his way around a shop near me. It's fine to risk your own health, but the problem with all this, it that we are risking a hell of a lot of other people's health by not taking reasonable precautions.

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by marko69 » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:53 pm

Ricco wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:10 pm
Sorry if I sound doom and gloom, but I've just had some numpty coughing and spluttering his way around a shop near me.
Yep, same on Saturday night for me. Walked into Scotmid, saw a guy coughing whilst unable to cover his mouth, (two basketfulls of panic shopping in hands) ..... I about turned and walked out. “Stuff that, I’ll go back at midnight!”

Then got told by stepson, shuts at 10! Grrrr 🤬

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by tangfastic » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:27 pm

At the moment, I really don’t see all the severe restrictions and paranoia lasting months and months.

Fair enough, for the moment, take steps to contain the virus and learn how best to deal with it - but mid to long term - who the f*ck wants to live in fear and jeopardise livelihoods, society and ... well... living?

Unfortunately, people die all the time. In fact, they’ve always been doing that. We’re about to to have an unpleasant increase in illnesses.. and unfortunately a lot more deaths. It’s a shitty deal, but at some point in the future we’ve got to get back to some kind of normality. If that means more lives might be lost then we might have to weigh that up against the impact of shutting down society. I mean.... when there’s businesses going under and people being laid off.... I bet many people would say “f*ck it, I’d take the 1 or 2 % risk of dying from Coronavirus if it means I’ve still got a job or a business”

I can take the restrictions and lifestyle change temporarily, but I’d want a government to try and get us back ASAP to some kind of normal. I think people will adapt better than we think and just get on with it, but the media’s going to be doing its best to whip up frenzy.

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Blue Wilf » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:00 pm

For me, i cannot help but feel its a big over reaction. If you were president and i told you a month ago that of 350 million americans, 50 old ones with underlying medical issues had died, would you have declared a state of emergency and bombed the global economy? I certainly would not have! My daughters personal fitness/pilates business has fallen off a cliff in the space of 2 weeks - its madness but no-one seems to want to point that out! There are 5 million self employed in the UK alone and they are all at risk of going under - and for what? I have an 87 year old father but to be honest, why are we hanging on to the elderly at the expense of the global economy? Controversial it may be but the ultimate dilemma - i know my view , but it may differ from others! You simply cannot stop the global economy - its madness! If no-one had ever mentioned this, we would all have continued and people may have said 'flu deaths are up a bit this year' - nothing more. For me, its a media driven over reaction. I hate social media (except this website) cos it drives such crazy thinking. Why would we follow the lead of italy and spain? They are the last peoples example to follow - just look at the lessons from history! Cue the anomosity from other posters... welcome to the social media world... sorry but thats my view...

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by number 9 » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:07 pm

I’m a bit disappointed in the human race to be honest. The hoarding effect has certainly rubbed me the wrong way. It really isn’t necessary. I completely understand wanting to protect the elderly and sick. I just wonder if it would have made more sense to isolate high risk people, rather than to enact impossible restrictions on society. The virus will never go away, so at some point the population will contract it and develop the antibodies needed to survive the infection.
Last edited by number 9 on Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Blue Wilf » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:09 pm

Sorry Frosty - to answer your question - i feel sh*t, worried for my daughter(s) and business/the economy and like the world is in shut down - its no fun any more!! I feel sorry for people that did not enjoy the world before it became politically correct. We used to have fun then and could laugh at others but also laugh at ourselves. That was at the heart of being british and as an ex- serviceman, it was how we all grew up - having fun. Now you have to be careful and hope not to hurt anyone - i hate treading on egg shells all day. Give me the risk of hurting and being hurt any day cos it is fundamental to our way of life. Deep for a footy forum i know but you asked the question!!!! 😬

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Bluemike » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:15 pm

I'm with Wilf all the way and I think we should do all we can to isolate the elderly while its rife but also let it run its course through the population, I don't see this crazy panic mode working, its completely OTT for me, look at the official worldwide stats on cases and deaths of flu every year and this doesn't as yet come close, it's because it's new and the world is panicking everyone.

I was taken Ill last day of my holiday and the hotel insisted I ring 111 as some of my symptoms gave cause for concern, it took f**king ages to eventually get through and then got grilled for ages before being declared corona free lol, thankfully they allowed me to travel home but my point is any elderly person will not cope with this ringing 111 bullshit, had my partner not been so patient and concerned I would have hung up, it's a farce.

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Andym » Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:03 pm

It's wrong to compare this to flu. We have no immunity so it's highly contagious. The death rate will be somewhere between 0.6% and 5% I guess.....even 0.6% is a f*ck load of people if it's likely 80% over the population contract it at some point.

I too have fears; one of my sons is a self employed plumber so he will be affected due to the economic collapse. Personally as a 66 year old who had surgery for cancer last April I guess I'm high risk for the death stakes. But at least I've had a life.

I agree with some of the comments here about crashing the economy. I don't like Boris Johnson one bit. But he xant win. I think his original plan was to let it run it's course rather than causing massive disruption to life and the economy - after all, all these measures will do nothing except slowing down the spread and so prolonging it. The same number will ultimately catch it. The reason for the change to more drastic measures is simply to prolong it so at any one time the NHS has a better chance of coping.

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by marko69 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:36 am

Andym wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:03 pm
The reason for the change to more drastic measures is simply to prolong it so at any one time the NHS has a better chance of coping.

Absolutely spot on, AndyM.

This from my Pharma Chem brother by email after lengthy discussions.
———————-
It’s not the fact that it will kill people that’s the problem. It’s the fact that is it so highly contagious and spreads so quickly that lots of people will be quite ill from it, and the health service won’t cope. It will completely crash. They are trying to flatten the peak by lengthening the time period for people to get it. Most people will get it at some point but if it can be spread over a longer period then the health service will cope better.
——————————

This is why the government want the elderly and people like my daughter to self isolate for a while. Everyone getting it at once is going to cripple the NHS. Flatten that curve!

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by marko69 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:06 am

Actual conversation at my daughters last night.

Me: “Yeah, So in a nutshell, just don’t be absent minded. Make sure your backup insulin is stocked, keep hand wipes in your bag, use them regularly. It’ll become habit and you’ll be fine. Ok?”
Daughter: (rolling eyes) “Aye Dad, I’ll be fine”
Me: (To her partner) “And you’ll be well versed on all the insulin stuff as well, yeah?”
Dean: “Oh yeah, definitely. So, who do you think will be in “covid-19” the movie? Tom Cruise? Matt Damon?”
🤦‍♂️😂😂

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Blue Wilf » Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:19 am

I get the desire to flatten the curve and i also agree that its not to be directly compared to the flu as well. What i cannot agree with is that in a desire to potentially flatten the curve in an NHS that is already overrun with foreigners (its a national heath service, not a global one) and the terminally fat (people have a personal responsibility to look after their own health, not expect the state to do it for them) - you cannot decide to totally bomb the economy because that is what PAYS for the NHS in the first place! Its madness, I tell you - and people will pay with their jobs and debt for decades to come!! Stocks crash, pensions crash, economy crashes, no work, cannot pay rent, more need to help the 'poor', mortgage cannot be paid, housing crash - the list goes on - and all because a relatively small percentage of old, already ill people sadly passed away and we followed the Italians... that well known global powerhouse...! Wake up and smell the coffee guys! I am not saying it is good - just that survival of the fittest has always been the way of nature. Its sad and hard but a reality! But what do I know anyway... I am Town fan after all...! 😬

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Dubai Blue » Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:22 am

Over here in Dubai they have been introducing restrictions slowly, day by day. Yesterday all bars closed including bar areas in restos, today no open buffets allowed and tables in restos have to be 2 metres apart, that kind of thing. I guess by the weekend they will start closing shops.

As for my business we try to carry on with remote working which works generally but not everyone is very good at it so tasks take longer, thus margins are down.

Most of my team is in Manila and they have a very different style of govt. to UK. Army is in the streets already :wink:

It's interesting to contrast the approaches in different countries. I have respect for the UK/NL approach of building immunity over time. I suspect that they are doing the same here but with no free press and no public info obligations it's hard to tell.......

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Bluemike » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:08 am

No it's true it shouldn't be compared to the Flu, the Flu kills thousands more every year.

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Ricco » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:21 am

Well Blue Wilf, there are over 150,000 "foreigners" working in the NHS, so this situation would be a damn sight worse without them. And while I think people should always be supported and encouraged to look after themselves better, what do you suppose we do with fat people, roll them out in to the streets? It's too simplistic a view, people don't want to be fat, it's unfair to suggest it's easy not to be and you don't deserve treatment if you are. By the way I'm neither foreign nor fat myself.

We're in for a horrible period of disruption, the sooner people accept that and move to get on with it as best they can the better this country will be. If there's unrest then it will make the situation far worse.

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Ricco » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:28 am

Bluemike wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:08 am
No it's true it shouldn't be compared to the Flu, the Flu kills thousands more every year.
It won't soon Mike and the only reason it's killed a few more than coronavirus is because many many many more people have contracted it.

We do not have natural immunity to it like the flu, we do not have vaccines for it like the flu. And even if we did, it spreads quicker and is more deadly.

The NHS is great, but it has a tiny capacity when you look at the potential number of sick if we don't do enough to slow it.

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Andym » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:31 am

Ricco wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:21 am
Well Blue Wilf, there are over 150,000 "foreigners" working in the NHS, so this situation would be a damn sight worse without them. And while I think people should always be supported and encouraged to look after themselves better, what do you suppose we do with fat people, roll them out in to the streets? It's too simplistic a view, people don't want to be fat, it's unfair to suggest it's easy not to be and you don't deserve treatment if you are. By the way I'm neither foreign nor fat myself.

We're in for a horrible period of disruption, the sooner people accept that and move to get on with it as best they can the better this country will be. If there's unrest then it will make the situation far worse.
Agree 100%

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Andym » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:33 am

Ricco wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:28 am
Bluemike wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:08 am
No it's true it shouldn't be compared to the Flu, the Flu kills thousands more every year.
It won't soon Mike and the only reason it's killed a few more than coronavirus is because many many many more people have contracted it.

We do not have natural immunity to it like the flu, we do not have vaccines for it like the flu. And even if we did, it spreads quicker and is more deadly.

The NHS is great, but it has a tiny capacity when you look at the potential number of sick if we don't do enough to slow it.
I agree. Using conservative estimates, if 50% of the population are infected and 0.5% of those die, that's 1 in every 400 dying. I think that exceeds flu deaths.

On the other hand if 80% are infected and 2% of those die, we are looking at a death rate of about 1 in 60 of the population.

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Blue Wilf » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:10 am

Sorry - i don't mean to offend (but it is hard not to in this situation as we have difficult choices to make). For clarity, 'foreigners' in this instance are in my opinion, those who have not contributed to our economy yet avail themselves of it at great expense to UK tax payers. There are many. And the 'fat' are those who clog the system by NOT looking after themselves by eating too much and not exercising! Its not a complex equation. Again, there are many of these! People must take personal responsibility and we should not allow systems to be abused. That is all I am saying. As for statistics, they are all ifs, buts and maybe's - no-one knows but what i DO know is that bombing the global economy is NOT a sustainable solution to this crisis. It will just create multiple other issues that we will never recover from. Just my opinion - not saying its right. I bet £10 on Kayden Jackson being the leagues too scorer this season so what do I know...? 😬

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Ricco » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:49 pm

Health tourism, i.e. the immigration and behaviour you mention (lazy non contributor, coming here to take advantage of the NHS) costs the taxpayer about 0.01% of the NHS budget, the equivalent of about £1 each a year, compared to the overall NHS budget, which is closer to £2000 each a year. it's not the thing to focus on and get angry about right now. There's also plenty of data that says immigrants use the NHS half as much as the native population, so pitchforks down?

It's an impossible job trying to find these lines, where you are tough enough to stop people abusing systems, but don't create a system which hurts those who really need it. I'm happy to pay £1 a year and let some non-contributors through the net if it means we help more of the latter.

Personal opinions of course, but I stand strongly behind my opinion that our healthcare would be in a far worse state without immigration, you can't have the smooth without the rough.

Looks like the Government are now moving towards ever stricter measures, I think we may even be in an experiment to see what that does to incident numbers in the next couple of weeks, it's going to be hard to backtrack on them though, perhaps that's why they've been tentative.

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Ricco » Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:00 pm

Andym wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:33 am
I agree. Using conservative estimates, if 50% of the population are infected and 0.5% of those die, that's 1 in every 400 dying. I think that exceeds flu deaths.

On the other hand if 80% are infected and 2% of those die, we are looking at a death rate of about 1 in 60 of the population.
Just impossible to know isn't it? We do know that the confirmed cases are the tip of the iceberg, the rest of the iceberg being the infected with mild or no symptoms, no one knows how many people that applies to, hopefully in a way that part of the iceberg is massive, but sadly I think it would be spreading faster if it were.

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Charnwood » Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:19 pm

I live in Spain and feel far more confident in the Crisis Management leadership displayed by Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez than ever I would in waffling Boris Johnson. By declaring a State of Emergency the Spanish Government has taken control and the general public have bought into it. The best example I can give of how these powers are being used positively is the Temporary Nationalisation / Requisitioning of all Private Hospitals in preparation for a huge influx of patients with Coronavirus. Meanwhile BJ was talking about the UK Government renting beds from the Private Sector for a huge amount of money which would end up in the pockets of his already super rich mates. Spain has also banned the export of Medical Supplies needed at home.
Spain and Italy already have two of the best Public Health Services in the world, Britain could learn a lot from either Country.

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Charnwood » Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:00 pm

From one of my golf pals with nothing better to do, Maybe Marko can translate;

Tae a virus

Twa months ago, we didna ken,
yer name or ocht aboot ye
But lots of things have changed since then,
I really must salute ye

Yer spreading rate is quite intense,
yer feeding like a gannet
Disruption caused, is so immense,
ye’ve shaken oor wee planet.

Corona used tae be a beer,
they garnished it wae limes
But noo it’s filled us awe wae fear
These days, are scary times.

Nae shakin hawns, or peckin lips,
it’s whit they awe advise
But scrub them weel, richt tae the tips,
that’s how we’ll awe survive

Just stay inside , the hoose, ye bide
Nae sneakin oot for strolls
Just check the lavvy every hoor
And stock-take, your, loo rolls

Our holidays have been pit aff
Noo that’s the Jet2 patter
Pit oan yer thermals, have a laugh
And paddle ‘ doon the waater ‘

Canary isles, no for a while
Nae need for suntan cream
And awe because o this wee bug
We ken tae be..19

The boredom surely will set in,
But have a read, or doodle
Or plan yer menu for the month
Wi 95 pot noodles.

When these run oot, just look aboot
A change, it would be nice
We’ve beans and pasta By the ton
and twenty stane o rice.

So dinny think yell wipe us oot
Aye true, a few have died
Bubonic, bird flu, and Tb
They came, they left, they tried

Ye might be gallus noo ma freen
As ye jump fae cup tae cup
But when we get oor vaccine made
Yer number will be up

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by marko69 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:33 pm

Very good stuff. 👏👏👏👏👏

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saint jude
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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by saint jude » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:35 pm

Not getting in a flap or paranoid about it. Some are literally sh*tting themselves as empty shelves in stores / mass panic buying will testify but been through just about everything life can throw you way, this seems almost tame in comparison. Work's been canceled or limited with hours shifted (if they go ahead at all) and other pursuits i.e. counselling sessions, fitness training and self-defense classes as of now in something of jeopardy. It's all about the proximity of people to others and risk of contamination. Can understand that although sometimes seems a little blown out of all proportion.

Provides one or two bonuses but kind of want the damn thing resolved sometime soon. Not to trivialize the issue or those effected but it's easy to be flippant or less concerned when you're personally not effected. Stay safe out there follow advice and guidelines and that should see you right.

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by number 9 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:21 am

It’s so quiet in here. Is everybody ok? These are the times of minus football observations. A time to discuss more important endeavors...such as the meaning of life. It’s a time to reveal Frosty’s hidden scrolls of his life growing up in Kiwi land. It’s a time perhaps for Marko to reminisce about his upbringing in the land down under. Even Charnwood I’m sure has stories of his reluctance to mediocrity in primary school. Dazza must have tales of solving the rubix cube in front of his amazed peers. G&B can probably talk about his favorite chippy during his stay in Ipswich, and Nicscreamer can probably allude to his head banging experiences at the Ipswich Gaumont. Even Bluemike may have a few anecdotes to fulfill us with hope during these tough times. I could go on forever about the forum members, and the reality is you all provide an escape from reality. I hope you and your loved ones are okay. And no, there’s no punchline.

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by Blue Wilf » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:21 am

Well Number 9 - you mentioning head banging experiences at the Ipswich Gaumont brought back some memories... i saw Genesis there (queued14 hours overnight in the street for a ticket), Hawkwind. The Stranglers, Uriah Heep and a many others but the one I remember most was Black Sabbath who were supported (this is how new they were then) by none other than Van Halen. When Eddie Van Halen came on stage as a support act and played 'Eruption'' (if you have never heard it, play it on spotify and you will hear what i mean) - including sliding on his knees and playing it whilst laying backwards on the ground, we had not seen or heard anything like it! They then went straight into 'Lets talk about love' and I was sold! 40 years later, I still love them! Happy days indeed...

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by nicscreamer » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:36 am

Oh eruption is awesome... Eddie olayed the guitar in a totally new style when they first came out. I am no fan of Dave lee Roth, but Eddie is effing awesome.

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Re: So how are we all feeling folks?

Post by number 9 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:58 am

Blue Wilf wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:21 am
Well Number 9 - you mentioning head banging experiences at the Ipswich Gaumont brought back some memories... i saw Genesis there (queued14 hours overnight in the street for a ticket), Hawkwind. The Stranglers, Uriah Heep and a many others but the one I remember most was Black Sabbath who were supported (this is how new they were then) by none other than Van Halen. When Eddie Van Halen came on stage as a support act and played 'Eruption'' (if you have never heard it, play it on spotify and you will hear what i mean) - including sliding on his knees and playing it whilst laying backwards on the ground, we had not seen or heard anything like it! They then went straight into 'Lets talk about love' and I was sold! 40 years later, I still love them! Happy days indeed...
I’ve spent an hour or two head banging at the Gaumont too, Wilf! Scorpions, UFO, Krokus, Thin Lizzy to name a few. But my favorite memory is Iron Maiden...I was standing in the mob at the front of the stage and when Eddie walked on to the stage he reached out and touched my head! Brilliant!!! Those were the days!!

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