Project Restart

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martiguesblue
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Re: Project Restart

Post by martiguesblue » Thu May 14, 2020 7:34 pm

marko69 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 6:09 pm
I agree wholeheartedly with Norwich.

Scrapping it all eliminates all arguments........, except Liverpool fans claiming to Man Utd fans that they won the EPL season 19/20. That argument will last forever.

New season.......... Bolton start again with their points deduction. Fair across the board. All the ifs & buts outs the window because everyone will be in the same boat. All in my humble opinion of course.

And, Lambo gets a second chance at -----> NOT making an arse of it again.
Too simplistic , how exactly would you punish Bolton for a second successive year under English Law ?

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Re: Project Restart

Post by marko69 » Thu May 14, 2020 7:43 pm

Their first punishment was unable to be met. And it’s not as if they suffered massively with the fans. More fans bought season tickets to show support of their club. Scrap the season and start over. They’re not being punished twice....., they’ll be starting the same punishment again.

martiguesblue
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Re: Project Restart

Post by martiguesblue » Thu May 14, 2020 8:13 pm

marko69 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:43 pm
Their first punishment was unable to be met. And it’s not as if they suffered massively with the fans. More fans bought season tickets to show support of their club. Scrap the season and start over. They’re not being punished twice....., they’ll be starting the same punishment again.
They met thier punnishment , they were tried and dealt with accordinngly . They suffered a huge drop in supporters, 4000 odd home crowds ( see thier site , trotters whatever ) , played reserve players in matches ( which again effected their match day revenues )which ensues a massive drop in revenue - important to all clubs outside thd premiership.

COV19 , would be classed as an act of god ,legally , it has effected us all - to try somebody/ some persons / entity twice under for the same offence under British law is illegal - do you understand the legal minefield you would be opening up under your views.

To try and enforce what your saying would not only end up before the High Court , it would under current juristriction end up in front of the ECJ - ie you can't be penalized twice for the SAME offence .

I'm not Bolton supporter , but they suffered and have no wish mortally or legally for them to suffer anymore.

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Re: Project Restart

Post by marko69 » Thu May 14, 2020 8:29 pm

Fair enough. It’s not really about Bolton though is it and to be honest their fate isn’t really top of the agenda. It’s titles and promotions / relegations. How can they sort through that mess? Is there a solution other than starting over? Do the powers award titles and relegate all teams who could’ve mathematically survived?
Or do they all accept to go again with no arguments?

martiguesblue
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Re: Project Restart

Post by martiguesblue » Thu May 14, 2020 8:30 pm

martiguesblue wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:24 pm
martiguesblue wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:13 pm
marko69 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:43 pm
Their first punishment was unable to be met. And it’s not as if they suffered massively with the fans. More fans bought season tickets to show support of their club. Scrap the season and start over. They’re not being punished twice....., they’ll be starting the same punishment again.
They met thier punnishment , they were tried and dealt with accordinngly . They suffered a huge drop in supporters, 4000 odd home crowds ( see thier site , trotters whatever ) , played reserve players in matches ( which again effected their match day revenues )which ensues a massive drop in revenue - important to all clubs outside thd premiership.

COV19 , would be classed as an act of god ,legally , it has effected us all - to try somebody/ some persons / entity twice under for the same offence under British law is illegal - do you understand the legal minefield you would be opening up under your views.

To try and enforce what your saying would not only end up before the High Court , it would under current juristriction end up in front of the ECJ - ie you can't be penalized twice for the SAME offence .

I'm not Bolton supporter , but they suffered and have no wish mortally or legally for them to suffer anymore.
martiguesblue wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:18 pm
marko69 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:43 pm
Their first punishment was unable to be met. And it’s not as if they suffered massively with the fans. More fans bought season tickets to show support of their club. Scrap the season and start over. They’re not being punished twice....., they’ll be starting the same punishment again.
martiguesblue wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:13 pm


They met thier punishment , they were tried and dealt with accordingly . They suffered a huge drop in supporters, 4000 odd home crowds ( see thier site , trotters whatever ) , played reserve players in matches ( which again effected their match day revenues - along wiyh results )which ensues a massive drop in match day revenues - important to all clubs outside thd premiership.

COV19 , would be classed as an act of god , legally , it has effected us all - to try somebody/ some persons / entity twice under for the same offence under British law is illegal - do you understand the legal minefield you would be opening up under your views.

To try and enforce what your saying would not only end up before the High Court , it would under current juristriction end up in front of the ECJ - ie you can't be penalized twice for the SAME offence .

I

I'm not Bolton supporter , but they suffered and i have no wish morally or legally for them to suffer anymore.
Just for reference i'm an international Maritime Lawyer not litigation- but the points are vaild .

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Re: Project Restart

Post by martiguesblue » Thu May 14, 2020 8:48 pm

marko69 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:29 pm
Fair enough. It’s not really about Bolton though is it and to be honest their fate isn’t really top of the agenda. It’s titles and promotions / relegations. How can they sort through that mess? Is there a solution other than starting over? Do the powers award titles and relegate all teams who could’ve mathematically survived?
Or do they all accept to go again with no arguments?


Like you i don't know or pretend to have the answers, football is so wrapped up in contracts - which ever way you turn it's a minefield - the only winners i guess will be the QC' s -

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Re: Project Restart

Post by Charnwood » Thu May 14, 2020 10:58 pm

marko69 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 1:21 pm
Charnwood wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 10:24 am
As I see it the players view will depend very much on where their club sits in the table, as simple as that.
And hopefully, when all this is over, that ^^^^ dishonest and utter bullshit way that society works is sorted out and becomes fairer. I’m not saying that’s how you think Charnwood or how you’d like things, no not all. I’m saying you’ve hit the nail on how the views within the system works and it all needs to be fairer ACROSS THE BOARD.

Even I was very disappointed with Hibernians view on why Hearts should be relegated. Roles reversed, Hibs would be trying for league reconstruction as well. It’s all bullshit.

Write off 19/20 season is the only way imo. Yes it’s not fair on Liverpool but for the greater good, it needs scrapped. Let’s face it, it’ll probably only be Man Utd Who rib them about not winning it. Everyone else with half a brain cell will know the title was going no where else but Anfield.


I have no idea how it will happen, but my money would be on the EPL and EFL Championship finding a way to to either restart or end the current season along with promotions and relegations and European Qualifications. As for Leagues 1 & 2 I’ll be surprised if they are played out but I expect a solution to be found to resolve the promotion and relegation issues. If Covid had arrived before Christmas with less than half the fixtures played maybe the season would have been abandoned, but with near 80% of games already played I don’t think that will happen. Whatever the eventual outcome I don’t think we’ll be waiting too much longer to find out.

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Re: Project Restart

Post by marko69 » Fri May 15, 2020 8:45 am

Charnwood wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:58 pm
As for Leagues 1 & 2 I’ll be surprised if they are played out but I expect a solution to be found to resolve the promotion and relegation issues.
Really? :shock:

Do you have any clue on what that solution would be? Inside info?

Because I cannot work out ANY "solution" that'll satisfy everyone. Other than starting over.

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number 9
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Re: Project Restart

Post by number 9 » Fri May 15, 2020 8:58 am


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Re: Project Restart

Post by marko69 » Fri May 15, 2020 9:16 am

number 9 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:58 am
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52665805

Here we go!
Well, hopefully they get it right. That's all you can hope for.

From that article you posted, 9.
Quote: "Elsewhere, six League One clubs have united to express their determination to finish the season."

I wonder what six? :lol:

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Re: Project Restart

Post by tangfastic » Fri May 15, 2020 10:02 am

marko69 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:16 am
number 9 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:58 am
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52665805

Here we go!
[
Well, hopefully they get it right. That's all you can hope for.

From that article you posted, 9.
Quote: "Elsewhere, six League One clubs have united to express their determination to finish the season."

I wonder what six? :lol:
https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-ne ... uding-town

Oxford United, Fleetwood Town, Portsmouth, Sunderland, Ipswich and Peterborough United.

Someone at Town still thinks we can get promoted.

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Re: Project Restart

Post by marko69 » Fri May 15, 2020 10:06 am

tangfastic wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 10:02 am
marko69 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:16 am
number 9 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:58 am
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52665805

Here we go!
[
Well, hopefully they get it right. That's all you can hope for.

From that article you posted, 9.
Quote: "Elsewhere, six League One clubs have united to express their determination to finish the season."

I wonder what six? :lol:
https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-ne ... uding-town

Oxford United, Fleetwood Town, Portsmouth, Sunderland, Ipswich and Peterborough United.

Someone at Town still thinks we can get promoted.
No one thinks that. Its Lambert. He thought he'd be sacked by now and its interfering with his plans.

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Re: Project Restart

Post by tangfastic » Fri May 15, 2020 10:13 am

martiguesblue wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:24 pm
martiguesblue wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:13 pm
marko69 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:43 pm
Their first punishment was unable to be met. And it’s not as if they suffered massively with the fans. More fans bought season tickets to show support of their club. Scrap the season and start over. They’re not being punished twice....., they’ll be starting the same punishment again.
They met thier punnishment , they were tried and dealt with accordinngly . They suffered a huge drop in supporters, 4000 odd home crowds ( see thier site , trotters whatever ) , played reserve players in matches ( which again effected their match day revenues )which ensues a massive drop in revenue - important to all clubs outside thd premiership.

COV19 , would be classed as an act of god ,legally , it has effected us all - to try somebody/ some persons / entity twice under for the same offence under British law is illegal - do you understand the legal minefield you would be opening up under your views.

To try and enforce what your saying would not only end up before the High Court , it would under current juristriction end up in front of the ECJ - ie you can't be penalized twice for the SAME offence .

I'm not Bolton supporter , but they suffered and have no wish mortally or legally for them to suffer anymore.
martiguesblue wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:18 pm
marko69 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:43 pm
Their first punishment was unable to be met. And it’s not as if they suffered massively with the fans. More fans bought season tickets to show support of their club. Scrap the season and start over. They’re not being punished twice....., they’ll be starting the same punishment again.
martiguesblue wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:13 pm


They met thier punishment , they were tried and dealt with accordingly . They suffered a huge drop in supporters, 4000 odd home crowds ( see thier site , trotters whatever ) , played reserve players in matches ( which again effected their match day revenues - along wiyh results )which ensues a massive drop in match day revenues - important to all clubs outside thd premiership.

COV19 , would be classed as an act of god , legally , it has effected us all - to try somebody/ some persons / entity twice under for the same offence under British law is illegal - do you understand the legal minefield you would be opening up under your views.

To try and enforce what your saying would not only end up before the High Court , it would under current juristriction end up in front of the ECJ - ie you can't be penalized twice for the SAME offence .

I

I'm not Bolton supporter , but they suffered and i have no wish morally or legally for them to suffer anymore.
Putting legalities aside.... what if Bolton were offered the choice of relegation (they're pretty much relegated already) or the chance to start again in League One again with the 12 points penalty? They would take the 12 points deduction at the drop of the hat. And I’d say they would have a decent chance of making up those points to stay in League One. If Bolton don’t get relegated and start afresh with no points deduction they wouldn’t have even been penalised once.

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Re: Project Restart

Post by marko69 » Fri May 15, 2020 10:23 am

tangfastic wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 10:13 am
If Bolton don’t get relegated and start afresh with no points deduction they wouldn’t have even been penalised once.
Yes, and I fail to understand why that isn't clear.

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Ricco
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Re: Project Restart

Post by Ricco » Fri May 15, 2020 11:19 am

I'm sure they can work out the legalities. If a tornado blew apart a prison and everyone escaped, I'm sure the offial statement wouldn't read "it wasn act of god, the escaped convicts have served their punishment, move along please"

Or the equivalent would be Bolton holding their hands up and saying I know it was a tornado and all that, but it's only fair I serve my punishment (get relegated).

It's even more important to enforce when you consider what happened to Bury in similar circumstances.

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Re: Project Restart

Post by number 9 » Fri May 15, 2020 11:32 am

The uncomplicated answer is for all teams to play out the season, but we now live in a complicated world...

Didn’t someone say that on Star Trek?

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Re: Project Restart

Post by marko69 » Fri May 15, 2020 12:19 pm

number 9 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:32 am
The uncomplicated answer is for all teams to play out the season, but we now live in a complicated world...

Didn’t someone say that on Star Trek?
Take it to the "Sad b*stard LIVE LONG & PROSPER" trekkie thread, 9.

Ok...... ebay........, Bionic Man toys. Hmmmm.

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Re: Project Restart

Post by Charnwood » Fri May 15, 2020 12:56 pm

marko69 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:45 am
Charnwood wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:58 pm
As for Leagues 1 & 2 I’ll be surprised if they are played out but I expect a solution to be found to resolve the promotion and relegation issues.
Really? :shock:

Do you have any clue on what that solution would be? Inside info?

Because I cannot work out ANY "solution" that'll satisfy everyone. Other than starting over.

There won’t be a solution that’ll satisfy everyone because some/maybe not many, will want to use the situation to gain an unfair advantage, the most obvious being to avoid an almost certain relegation. At best a solution that a majority are happy to sign up to is all that’s required, that shouldn’t be impossible to achieve.

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Re: Project Restart

Post by martiguesblue » Fri May 15, 2020 1:34 pm

Ricco wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:19 am
I'm sure they can work out the legalities. If a tornado blew apart a prison and everyone escaped, I'm sure the offial statement wouldn't read "it wasn act of god, the escaped convicts have served their punishment, move along please"

Or the equivalent would be Bolton holding their hands up and saying I know it was a tornado and all that, but it's only fair I serve my punishment (get relegated).

It's even more important to enforce when you consider what happened to Bury in similar circumstances.
I'm sure the likes of Liverpool , Leeds and WBA would agree with others would - i am going state for the final time here , this professional world is nowhere near as simplistic as you would ( yes i can live with Alice in winderland too ! , and many times i personally would like to) and one or teo others would like - i doff my to to you for living in such a perfect world.

The only prison i've ever known to lose a roof was Strangeways Manchester , ciica 1980 , those responsible received zn ADDITIONAL SENTENCE- not the same, we have a thing in the UK called " double jeopardy " - if you have problem with take it up with the Lord of the High Justice not me - i am just a simple guy that for my sins
Follows Ipswich.


If you prove me wrong , i'll pay for you and wife , mistress or giflfriend to have the night your life in Paris - on me-i am a man of my word.

I stand by every word i wrote. Poor analogy mate.

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Re: Project Restart

Post by marko69 » Fri May 15, 2020 2:29 pm

martiguesblue wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:34 pm
Ricco wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:19 am
I'm sure they can work out the legalities. If a tornado blew apart a prison and everyone escaped, I'm sure the offial statement wouldn't read "it wasn act of god, the escaped convicts have served their punishment, move along please"

Or the equivalent would be Bolton holding their hands up and saying I know it was a tornado and all that, but it's only fair I serve my punishment (get relegated).

It's even more important to enforce when you consider what happened to Bury in similar circumstances.
I'm sure the likes of Liverpool , Leeds and WBA would agree with others would - i am going state for the final time here , this professional world is nowhere near as simplistic as you would ( yes i can live with Alice in winderland too ! , and many times i personally would like to) and one or teo others would like - i doff my to to you for living in such a perfect world.

The only prison i've ever known to lose a roof was Strangeways Manchester , ciica 1980 , those responsible received zn ADDITIONAL SENTENCE- not the same, we have a thing in the UK called " double jeopardy " - if you have problem with take it up with the Lord of the High Justice not me - i am just a simple guy that for my sins
Follows Ipswich.


If you prove me wrong , i'll pay for you and wife , mistress or giflfriend to have the night your life in Paris - on me-i am a man of my word.

I stand by every word i wrote. Poor analogy mate.
Watching too many law based Netflix documentaries, Marti?

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Re: Project Restart

Post by number 9 » Fri May 15, 2020 2:52 pm

Watching Marko dueling with another poster is way more entertaining than football! :lol:

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Re: Project Restart

Post by marko69 » Fri May 15, 2020 2:54 pm

number 9 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 2:52 pm
Watching Marko dueling with another poster is way more entertaining than football! :lol:
What? Paris is a f**king shyte hole. We want better prizes.

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Re: Project Restart

Post by number 9 » Fri May 15, 2020 3:07 pm

marko69 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 2:54 pm
number 9 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 2:52 pm
Watching Marko dueling with another poster is way more entertaining than football! :lol:
What? Paris is a f**king shyte hole. We want better prizes.

Agree Paris is a shyte hole...the Awful Tower! :lol:

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Re: Project Restart

Post by tangfastic » Fri May 15, 2020 4:09 pm

martiguesblue wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:34 pm
Ricco wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:19 am
I'm sure they can work out the legalities. If a tornado blew apart a prison and everyone escaped, I'm sure the offial statement wouldn't read "it wasn act of god, the escaped convicts have served their punishment, move along please"

Or the equivalent would be Bolton holding their hands up and saying I know it was a tornado and all that, but it's only fair I serve my punishment (get relegated).

It's even more important to enforce when you consider what happened to Bury in similar circumstances.
I'm sure the likes of Liverpool , Leeds and WBA would agree with others would - i am going state for the final time here , this professional world is nowhere near as simplistic as you would ( yes i can live with Alice in winderland too ! , and many times i personally would like to) and one or teo others would like - i doff my to to you for living in such a perfect world.

The only prison i've ever known to lose a roof was Strangeways Manchester , ciica 1980 , those responsible received zn ADDITIONAL SENTENCE- not the same, we have a thing in the UK called " double jeopardy " - if you have problem with take it up with the Lord of the High Justice not me - i am just a simple guy that for my sins
Follows Ipswich.


If you prove me wrong , i'll pay for you and wife , mistress or giflfriend to have the night your life in Paris - on me-i am a man of my word.

I stand by every word i wrote. Poor analogy mate.
I thought it was a pretty decent analogy. Basically, they haven’t completed their punishment. They won’t need to be convicted twice - just serve the rest of the punishment. That’s if the league is voided. Coventry would have to accept the opposite ie for all their hard graft and endeavour to deservedly be ahead of the pack they would have to accept last season was voided and essentially have to start afresh like the start of the 19-20 season.

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Re: Project Restart

Post by Ricco » Fri May 15, 2020 10:48 pm

tangfastic wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:09 pm
I thought it was a pretty decent analogy.
I believe it was only poor in his eyes because it clashed with his opinion...
martiguesblue wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:34 pm
I'm sure the likes of Liverpool , Leeds and WBA would agree with others would - i am going state for the final time here , this professional world is nowhere near as simplistic as you would ( yes i can live with Alice in winderland too ! , and many times i personally would like to) and one or teo others would like - i doff my to to you for living in such a perfect world.
If you want to play lawyer, then go get your hands on the papers and looks at the fine print before you comment in the way that you have. If you're going to say that my view is too simplistic and that they can't be further penalised because it's double jeopardy, then you should be able to see that your view is too simplistic if you think you can claim without any knowledge of the intricacies that there's no way they can receive further punishment.

It takes a single bit of small print such as "in the event of bla de bla bla...... the 12-point deduction is delayed and applied to the first full completed season"

So no, you're right, things aren't that simple. You should also know that people are bastards if they feel someone has unfairly had a get out of jail free card, there may be a million other things that they can hang Bolton for should they deem it fair. Perhaps they'll enforce this...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50420657

5-point deduction, suspended sentence because of failure to fulfil fixtures... well they're failing to fulfil a hell of a lot of fixtures at the moment!

Yes double jeopardy is a thing, indeed, how naive of me, but it's even more naive to not realise that prosecutors are bastards and highly skilled in the art of the asterix. I'm not saying Bolton will get penalised in future, but I wouldn't rule it out so hastily if I were you, and maybe turn the provocation down a click or two...

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Re: Project Restart

Post by number 9 » Fri May 15, 2020 11:50 pm

I like this Marti bloke! He’s not afraid to ruffle a few feathers on the Tractor-Boys forum. He’s sort of a mixture of MachPolish & Saint Jude. :D

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Re: Project Restart

Post by Charnwood » Sat May 16, 2020 10:30 am

Getting back on topic I see the German Bundesliga Season resumes this weekend with a full programme of fixtures after their coronavirus shutdown.

Today’s six games are the first to be played since the league was suspended on 13 March and include the derby between Borussia Dortmund and Schalke. (Probably with watching on tv)

There will be a police presence at stadiums to ensure fans do not enter and to prevent disturbances, amid concerns over anti-lockdown protesters.

Under strict health protocols, fans are banned from the stadiums. About 300 people, including players, staff and officials, will be in or around the stadiums.

Players have been tested for Covid-19 and will be expected to observe social distancing off the pitch. Every team has been in quarantine, going from a hotel to their training ground for the week leading up to this weekend's return.

If I can find it on the tele I’ll try to watch the Dortmund derby to see if it restores my interest which appears to have disappeared.

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Re: Project Restart

Post by marko69 » Sat May 16, 2020 1:29 pm

Charnwood wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 10:30 am
Getting back on topic I see the German Bundesliga Season resumes this weekend with a full programme of fixtures after their coronavirus shutdown.
Charnaby Jones...... HELP! I forgot my Betfair log in details! :lol:

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Re: Project Restart

Post by Charnwood » Sat May 16, 2020 2:48 pm

marko69 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 1:29 pm
Charnwood wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 10:30 am
Getting back on topic I see the German Bundesliga Season resumes this weekend with a full programme of fixtures after their coronavirus shutdown.
Charnaby Jones...... HELP! I forgot my Betfair log in details! :lol:
Snap, me too!

I’ve found the match on BT Sport but how bizarre watching the game with no fans and no atmosphere.

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Re: Project Restart

Post by tangfastic » Sat May 16, 2020 3:14 pm

Charnwood wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 2:48 pm
marko69 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 1:29 pm
Charnwood wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 10:30 am
Getting back on topic I see the German Bundesliga Season resumes this weekend with a full programme of fixtures after their coronavirus shutdown.
Charnaby Jones...... HELP! I forgot my Betfair log in details! :lol:
Snap, me too!

I’ve found the match on BT Sport but how bizarre watching the game with no fans and no atmosphere.
Just like the Mick MCCarthy days.

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