September Restart ? - How it might look.

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tangfastic
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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by tangfastic » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:27 pm

Just looking at average league attendances for League 1 last season.

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/lea ... ttendances

How the hell do teams like Accrington survive ? Crowd average of 2862. I don’t see how they can sustain themselves at this level with attendances like that.

I don’t want to appear to be the big bully because we can pull in 20000 fans, but I don’t think we should hold back from re-starting because some clubs seem to live on the edge. Or maybe they’re bank-rolled by an investor - in which case they don’t have to rely on full crowds.
A lot of things don’t add up.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by marko69 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:54 pm

tangfastic wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:27 pm
A lot of things don’t add up.
And haven't for a very long a$$ time. Long before Covid19 was a "thing".

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by Bluemike » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:38 pm

Fans could be allowed back into football grounds by October, according to prime minister Boris Johnson.

At a news conference at Downing Street this morning, Johnson said: “From 1st August we will pilot larger gatherings in venues like sports stadia with a view to a wider reopening in the autumn.

“From October we intend to bring back audiences in stadia in a Covid-secure way subject to the successful outcome of pilots.

“Again, these changes must be done in a Covid-secure way, subject to the successful outcome of pilots.”

Currently, games are being played behind closed doors with just 300 players, staff, personnel and media present.

Two county cricket friendlies, one the Surrey-Middlesex fixture at The Oval on July 26th and 27th, the World Snooker Championships at Sheffield's Crucible Theatre from July 31st and the Goodwood horse racing festival on August 1st are among the pilot projects.

In a statement released last week, the EFL outlined its work towards getting fans back on the terraces: “The EFL is working with the SGSA [Sports Grounds Safety Authority] on a joint project looking at the impact of applying social distancing to football stadia.

“As a result, work is ongoing at Charlton Athletic and Cambridge United that involves modelling the crowd dynamics of two very different football grounds.

“This will help us measure the potential impact on stadium capacity and better understand how clubs will need to adjust their matchday operations so that as many fans as possible can be admitted in a safe environment.

“The help and support provided by both clubs has been invaluable and will inform future guidance that will go to all clubs once the Government gives the green light for crowds to return to matches.

“At this stage we do not know when that will be but we continue to prepare for such an outcome.”

Even if fans are admitted to grounds as soon as October, it’s likely that numbers will be limited with previous reports suggesting stadia could be 25 per cent or one-third full.

Town currently have a little under 9,000 season ticket holders with Portman Road's capacity these days just short of 30,000.

Other previously reported proposals which would allow fans to return reportedly include a ban on away support, toilets being closed at half-time and refreshments - potentially including alcoholic drinks - being brought to fans in their seats to avoid numbers congregating on concourses.

As yet there is no date set for the start of the 2020/21 season but Saturday 12th September appears most likely.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by hallamblue » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:00 pm

It’s going to be interesting to see how they segregate the crowd in stands like SBR isn’t it !

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by Bluemike » Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:16 pm

Bloody strike looming now, kick them out I say.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by hallamblue » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:17 pm

These small clubs really are holding everyone else to ransom aren’t they ! It’s a professional league they’re in not s Bloody Sunday morning league . I know it’s unprecedented times but as the Govt.have said , this Country has to start trading again or they’ll be nothing bloody left.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by Andym » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:57 am

hallamblue wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:17 pm
These small clubs really are holding everyone else to ransom aren’t they ! It’s a professional league they’re in not s Bloody Sunday morning league . I know it’s unprecedented times but as the Govt.have said , this Country has to start trading again or they’ll be nothing bloody left.
But they aren't trading of there is no income. It's no different to a restaurant choosing not to reopen because their income won't cover costs. Many that have reopened will close again when its too cold for customers to eat outside. You can't operate without money.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by nicscreamer » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:38 am

Yep, exactly what Andy said. The smaller clubs need fans allowed in to generate some income. Without the fans they cant operate and so have every right to not play. However, the league would also be in their right to kick them out of the league or reformat the league based upon who can start the season or not.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by Bluemike » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:15 pm

As with any business if you can't afford to trade you go bust and pack up, as hard as it sounds you cant punish those that are ready and willing to proceed

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by marko69 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:13 pm

Not sure on the legalities of "The League" being able to kick them out.

100% that any club who KNOW they cannot operate really do need to realise it and then wind up their operations and shouldn't need a second party to shove them out the door.

Since we haven't experienced Covid19 or anything like it recently, (certainly in the era of big money) legal jargon will need to be worded in favour of "The League" so they can have authority to apply pressure without being sued. Lets face it,....., they can all argue until they are blue in the face, but no one could help what happened.
Like I said...., these clubs DO need to go, but if told, "Get the fk out"..... there will be various court proceedings.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by tangfastic » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:53 pm

https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/darragh-m ... -1-6755558

Posh’s owner doesn’t mince words. According to him, any club who go on strike should be booted out of the EFL.

Mind you, he seems to think that there could be a relaxing of the testing. That’s a big sticking point. Out of interest, has any PL player contracted the virus yet after a couple of months of training/ playing? I mean,if the danger is very low is all the testing needed?

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by Bluemike » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:59 pm

For the first time ever I agree with him which is why my idea of non starters in League 2 and runners in league 1 is the way forward, no legal action then cus they ain't being kicked out

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by tangfastic » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:10 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:59 pm
For the first time ever I agree with him which is why my idea of non starters in League 2 and runners in league 1 is the way forward, no legal action then cus they ain't being kicked out
I also have no problem with his attitude. At least it’s clear cut. I don’t think it’s the time anymore to try and play nice guys.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by Andym » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:44 pm

So if next season starts without supporters.....and the infection rate rises in September/October as is very possible so there are no spectators for the whole season....would you support that situation?

Personally I think it would be pointless. And I don't agree it's about not being able to afford to trade. Trade involves income and expenditure with an aim for the former to exceed the latter. But when your income is £0 the only sensible option is to reduce expenditure. Every game without fans will cost clubs a a lot of money....and virtually every club is already deep in debt.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by tangfastic » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:46 pm

Haven’t we sold 9000 season tickets already? That’s revenue.

Maybe offer season ticket holders the chance to watch it on iFollow at home. And if fans are OK to sit 2 or 3 seats apart from each other, then it’s up to them.

We might have to adapt to live with the virus , rather than just hide from it.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by Bluemike » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:30 pm

Going on what the scientist's have told us today this is here for decades so we like it or lump it, time to start living again or we curl up and die anyway, if I can put myself at risk every day at work I'm sure as hell prepared to put myself at risk at football, in restaurant's and pubs and going on holiday, if this is how its gonna be then we have to make the most of it.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by hallamblue » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:01 am

I’m not quite sure why we can’t go to football matches , assuming fans would be obligated to wearing a mask. We are outside , and Clubs, could I’m sure come up with some form of social distancing . Don’t have refreshment kiosks open and kept concourses clear ( you go directly to your , or a, designated seat . I’m sure stadiums could accommodate this . As you say , It’d get busy living or continue to lock ourselves away snd life ( businesses) as we know it will disappear, probably for good!


I’m not sure what the “normal” (expected) annual mortality rate is for a seasonal virus like influenza is in the UK. But shocking as the 44k CoVid deaths is , it’s actually a very low % of the Country’s overall population, ( 0.06?) I think I heard a week or two back .

If anyone has these figures it would be interesting to compare. We are learning more and more about this virus I think , the Oxford study shows that their vaccination generates a “ very strong autoimmune response “ so hopefully we might have a vaccine in the next 4/6 months which might change the virus landscape completely in this Country 🤞

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by hallamblue » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:13 am

Andym wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:57 am
hallamblue wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:17 pm
These small clubs really are holding everyone else to ransom aren’t they ! It’s a professional league they’re in not s Bloody Sunday morning league . I know it’s unprecedented times but as the Govt.have said , this Country has to start trading again or they’ll be nothing bloody left.
But they aren't trading of there is no income. It's no different to a restaurant choosing not to reopen because their income won't cover costs. Many that have reopened will close again when its too cold for customers to eat outside. You can't operate without money.

I agree. I suggested on TWTD forum that those clubs that can or are prepared to play in league one should be allowed to do so . In effect we play a mini season . Top 3 get promoted and there is no relegation. Those can’t afford to operate for this season , effectively “ sit it out “ and the League resume in full the following season . The club numbers in League One would remain the same as the 3 promoted would be replaced by the 3 Championship Clubs relegated. League Two would all undoubtedly choose not to play . So in effect they would “ sit out” this coming season too.

At least it gives those bigger clubs in League One s chance to get promoted this coming season . Because God help us if we become entangled in the proposed salary cap in a years time !! Town HAVE to get promoted this coming season or we are well and truly stuffed IMHO.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by nicscreamer » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:24 am

Hallam - From what i can gather, around 10-20 thousand deaths occur each year due to Flu in the UK. Thats over the course of 12 months, but obviously most are in the winter months. The UK has had over 65,000 EXCESS deaths so far this year and a large portion of those (at least 45,000) are attributed to Covid.
So its certainly not inconsequential, but as others have said, we really need to learn to live with it now as there will be no serious vaccine available for some time yet, and even when it is available it wont be dished out to people who are not seen as vunerable.
I would happily go back to PR to watch matches and wear a mask, sit distant from others etc if needed. We need to crack on as best we can in life now otherwise there wont be any live sport to watch other than the prima donnas of the premiership.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by hallamblue » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:41 am

Oh thank you for that Nic . Yes it certainly is excessive then if that's in ADDITION to what the Country would normally expect to occur. But you are right we do need to find ways to live alongside this virus until we can control and then eradicate it.

might see you at PR then....mines the Blue mask !! :lol:

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by Bluemike » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:45 am

Just a shame the reported figures for covid deaths are greatly inflated, loads of deaths have incorrectly been accredited to covid, truth is nobody knows the accurate figures.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by nicscreamer » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:33 am

I dont think the deaths due to covid are greatly overstated... There is argument that England have been a little over zealous in reporting deaths due to Covid, but only by about 10% (so 4-5000). However, excess deaths is a reasonable way to judge the effect of the virus on the country as a whole, and 65000 excess deaths is a lot by any measure. I dont think we do anyone any favours by playing down the affect, as indeed we dont by over playing it. A measured , open and above all honest approach to the affect needs to be the way.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by Bluemike » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:15 pm

Yes it does but the word "honest" is never gonna happen lol.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by nicscreamer » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:37 pm

unfortunately agreed :cry:

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by number 9 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:27 pm

If fans are wearing masks and practicing proper hand sanitizing, why do we even need social distancing in a stadium? I know some of you are raising your eyebrows, but think about. Hospital workers are in close contact with Covid sufferers on a daily basis, and I don't think social distancing is practiced in the wards. I just don't think there's gonna much difference between exposure risk for 10,000 vice 20,000 fans. Now, checking temperatures as people go through the kiosks might be a good idea, even though it won't detect the asymptomatic carriers. At least you'll have some measure of control. Also, if people are showing signs of sickness regardless of the cause they should not be allowed in the stadium. People in high-risk categories should probably refrain from going to matches as well. I'm certainly not trying to diminish the importance of Covid mitigation, but if this disease is gonna be with us for decades we better learn to live with it.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by Andym » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:51 pm

number 9 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:27 pm
If fans are wearing masks and practicing proper hand sanitizing, why do we even need social distancing in a stadium? I know some of you are raising your eyebrows, but think about. Hospital workers are in close contact with Covid sufferers on a daily basis, and I don't think social distancing is practiced in the wards. I just don't think there's gonna much difference between exposure risk for 10,000 vice 20,000 fans. Now, checking temperatures as people go through the kiosks might be a good idea, even though it won't detect the asymptomatic carriers. At least you'll have some measure of control. Also, if people are showing signs of sickness regardless of the cause they should not be allowed in the stadium. People in high-risk categories should probably refrain from going to matches as well. I'm certainly not trying to diminish the importance of Covid mitigation, but if this disease is gonna be with us for decades we better learn to live with it.
Bear in mind that shouting and singing spreads the infection as much as coughing and sneezing.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by number 9 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:21 pm

If everyone is wearing masks, it should help to limit the spread. It certainly won’t be the same as attending a match pre Covid. There will need to be adjustments to how the fans act. If that’s possible, it would at least create revenue for the clubs. I’m sure there’ll still be a few numbskulls who don’t follow protocols...but rules will need to be enforced. I know not easy.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by tangfastic » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:26 am

Maybe it is the best mentality to believe the virus will be around for years. That way, people steel themselves, make and move on with a more positive attitude.

Surely, we must have already learned some vital lessons for how to deal with the situation? And we’ll continue to if we take steps to push ahead and get back to normality. I don’t think we’ll learn much if we all continue to stay at home. And if there is an upsurge in infections when people are closer together, then there shouldn’t be a panic. Maybe come to accept that any new wave is a unpleasant reality if we want to get things going again.

Maybe the second wave of infections won’t be down mostly to bad weather, but because people have had enough and made the choice to get on with their lives and feel it’s necessary to take the extra risk. There’s got to be a tipping point when the consequences of social distancing and lockdown outweigh the fear of the virus.

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Re: September Restart ? - How it might look.

Post by Bluemike » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:34 pm

Exactly Tang, we have to live with it and move on, absolutely no choice other than become a recluse and wait to die anyway.

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