Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

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hallamblue
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Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by hallamblue » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:58 am

I’ve nicked this post from twtd..... it makes for some enlightening reading and I can’t help but have a feeling of envy tbh .


What do others think about the Brentford approach?



Brentford's player trading profits

Neal Maupay to Brighton -18.2m
Bought for 1.6m, sold for 19.8m

Chris Mepham to Bournemouth- 12.2m
B team product, sold for 12.2m

Andre Gray to Burnley- 10.65m
Bought for 550k, sold for 11.1m


Ezri Konsa to Aston Villa- 9.5 m
Bought for 2.5m, sold for 12m

Scott Hogan to Aston Villa-8.7m
Bought for 750k, sold for 9.5m

Ryan Woods to Stoke- 5.5m
Bought for 1m, sold for 6.5m

Jota to Birmingham-4.5m
Bought for 1.2m, sold for 5.7m

Brentford have the fourth-lowest playing budget in the Championship, but 3rd in the table.
They made wholesale changes overnight; transfers were inspired by mathematical models & obscure stats were sent to the touchline at half-time to influence tactics.
This season, the average age of Brentford's starting XI is 24 years & 324 days.
The second youngest in the Championship.
They bought Benrahma & Bryan Mbeumo from Ligue 2.
Brentford co-director of football Rasmus Ankersen
Brentford's Dane who has written books on developing talent, reckons most companies spend two per cent of their time recruiting & 75 per cent managing their recruitment mistakes.
Anderson was one of the first men in football to realise that, contrary to cliche, the table doesn't lie. And as a result , football's data revolution emerges from a small old ground.

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by marko69 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:20 am

Quote from that article:
......transfers were inspired by mathematical models & obscure stats were sent to the touchline at half-time to influence tactics.
End quote.

Whit? Lost! Wtf is the guy on about here? I mean they’re doing very well indeed and congrats on that, but obscure stats @ HT to influence tactics?? That’s got to be wind & pish? SURELY?
(Cue Airplane! quote)

And another conv that could be born from this thread...... B&HA spending 19M on one player? There is a symptom of why Covid has fkd the game completely.

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by hallamblue » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:28 am

You ought to read the thread on twtd about the youngster ( Ben Knight ) who went to Man City straight from our academy a short while ago, Marko. He was offered ( reportedly), a 7 figure signing on fee and a salary that has set him and his family up for life. Yet he’s failed to shine since signing for them and is unlikely to make it at Man City ( shocker). Oh, have I not mentioned the term football yet! This is what makes me sick about the PL money in the game now. Its killed it.

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by tangfastic » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:00 am

Well if we did adopt Brentford’s model we would have to ditch our academy.

They closed their academy and focussed on recruitment. Go after academy rejects who didn’t quite make it at big clubs.

Our biggest recent success in the transfer market is Tyrone Mings. Bought from non league for 10000, sold for 8 million. And he wasn’t even scouted by us. It was a tip off from Russell Osman. He was a Southampton academy reject as well, so probably a lot of kids out there with potential who’ve been released.

Who knows- maybe get more recruitment staff in place of coaches. The large majority of the academy kids never make it near our first team squad anyway- let alone make 50 or a 100 appearances.

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by hallamblue » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:29 pm

I’m not sure what our academy costs each year , but I think it runs into £m’s . Fine if these player ever reach the first team. But we seem to lose them so easily and nowhere near what their true worth or what it's cost us to develop To the point where they move to PL clubs.

But on the flip side aka the “ Brentford way”, we currently do not have a scouting infrastructure anywhere near a good enough level to emulate their approach. Nor do we appear to have the ability to get a good price when selling. Even narwich manage that better than us and have done for years. So maybe the calibre of back room staff ( and Evans) are just green horns when it comes to making those decisions?


Everything costs a lot of money in the game nowadays , so we’re very unlikely to change from the approach we currently take.

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by marko69 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:32 pm

tangfastic wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:00 am
The large majority of the academy kids never make it near our first team squad anyway.....
This takes me back to when first joining this forum. Said something about Klug and the lack of true talent coming through the ranks yet he was on a pedestal.
My God! ...... was lynched! :lol:

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by marko69 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:37 pm

hallamblue wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:29 pm
Everything costs a lot of money in the game nowadays , so we’re very unlikely to change from the approach we currently take.
Hopefully the coronavirus changes that, Hallam.

Apologies if that sounds heartless and condolences to all members who lurk & don’t post and who’ve maybe lost a family member due to CV19........, but if there could be one positive, let’s grab onto it.

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by tangfastic » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:09 pm

marko69 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:32 pm
tangfastic wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:00 am
The large majority of the academy kids never make it near our first team squad anyway.....
This takes me back to when first joining this forum. Said something about Klug and the lack of true talent coming through the ranks yet he was on a pedestal.
My God! ...... was lynched! :lol:
You can abuse the owner, the manager and the players.... but you can never criticise Bryan Klug! This guy seems to possess legendary status around the club. You wait when Lambert gets sacked.... there’ll be a few wanting Klug as our new manager. He’s very well thought of, but I do wonder if he really deserves such a reputation.
I can’t remember the last academy product who’s made it at first team level and then been sold to a PL club. It must have been Conor Wickham and that was maybe ten or eleven years ago. Downes could be next in line.... and also Woolfenden.... but so few of our academy products actually make it with us and then go onto a higher level.
We might as well pick up the 1 million for Ben Knights or Charlie Brown from Man City or Chelsea when they’re school kids, because they could so easily not make it and get released.

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by number 9 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:40 pm

I think Klug has the credentials to run the academy. You have to put things in perspective though, I'm sure ITFC is not exactly at the top of the list for most families anymore. There's only so much 'turd-polishing' Klug can do.

I've admired Brentford's approach for several years. Analytics are a big part of American sports especially for the poorer franchises. The Oakland A's baseball club is famous for using analytics...they even made a movie about it.

I've also questioned our recruitment for years, and I don't think we've had a manager who could develop raw talent since Bobby Robson.

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by marko69 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:52 pm

tangfastic wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:09 pm
marko69 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:32 pm
tangfastic wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:00 am
The large majority of the academy kids never make it near our first team squad anyway.....
This takes me back to when first joining this forum. Said something about Klug and the lack of true talent coming through the ranks yet he was on a pedestal.
My God! ...... was lynched! :lol:
You can abuse the owner, the manager and the players.... but you can never criticise Bryan Klug! This guy seems to possess legendary status around the club. You wait when Lambert gets sacked.... there’ll be a few wanting Klug as our new manager. He’s very well thought of, but I do wonder if he really deserves such a reputation.
I can’t remember the last academy product who’s made it at first team level and then been sold to a PL club. It must have been Conor Wickham and that was maybe ten or eleven years ago. Downes could be next in line.... and also Woolfenden.... but so few of our academy products actually make it with us and then go onto a higher level.
We might as well pick up the 1 million for Ben Knights or Charlie Brown from Man City or Chelsea when they’re school kids, because they could so easily not make it and get released.
And you’ve got to understand, that was 2009. He’d done little up to THAT point. Never mind after ‘09.

But since read 9’s post and polishing...... I suppose if the talent isn’t arriving through the door then 🤷‍♂️

I do find that hard to swallow though. Ipswich & surrounding area is fairly big. Big enough to produce more than just LESS than a handful of million pound plus players.

GET OFF YOUR XBOXES YOU FAT SO’FK BSTDS!

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by tangfastic » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:50 pm

marko69 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:52 pm
tangfastic wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:09 pm
marko69 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:32 pm


This takes me back to when first joining this forum. Said something about Klug and the lack of true talent coming through the ranks yet he was on a pedestal.
My God! ...... was lynched! :lol:
You can abuse the owner, the manager and the players.... but you can never criticise Bryan Klug! This guy seems to possess legendary status around the club. You wait when Lambert gets sacked.... there’ll be a few wanting Klug as our new manager. He’s very well thought of, but I do wonder if he really deserves such a reputation.
I can’t remember the last academy product who’s made it at first team level and then been sold to a PL club. It must have been Conor Wickham and that was maybe ten or eleven years ago. Downes could be next in line.... and also Woolfenden.... but so few of our academy products actually make it with us and then go onto a higher level.
We might as well pick up the 1 million for Ben Knights or Charlie Brown from Man City or Chelsea when they’re school kids, because they could so easily not make it and get released.
And you’ve got to understand, that was 2009. He’d done little up to THAT point. Never mind after ‘09.

But since read 9’s post and polishing...... I suppose if the talent isn’t arriving through the door then 🤷‍♂️

I do find that hard to swallow though. Ipswich & surrounding area is fairly big. Big enough to produce more than just LESS than a handful of million pound plus players.

GET OFF YOUR XBOXES YOU FAT SO’FK BSTDS!
TBF.... we’ve got a decent crop of young players. Maybe the best we’ve had for years. Or maybe they look good in comparison against the senior players - who must be the poorest lot we’ve had since I can remember.
I think one of the problems is we develop good young players who don’t fit as the managers type of player. I mean Mick had his idea of what type of player he liked. If you buy in a player, you know usually what you’re getting. If you develop a player over 10 years in the academy- how do you know if they will fit in to a managers plans?
Maybe what Klug can produce and what the manager wants are two different things.

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by marko69 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:06 pm

tangfastic wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:50 pm
Maybe what Klug can produce and what the manager wants are two different things.
That may homing in on the very issue. And cliche time ——-> Give them both the same hymn sheet.

The other side of the argument is that Bryan Klug produces a superstar, but he’s off to either play or more likely bench warm @ Spurs.
Like Downes. Praying to the Sweet mother of Jaysus he’s at the club for the new season (whenever that is) but fear he won’t.

Best player out the Ipswich door in recent years is JR.
Who got shot of JR?

Ancient history....... move the fk on, ffs!

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by marko69 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:11 pm

Anyone got an answer for:

.....transfers were inspired by mathematical models & obscure stats were sent to the touchline at half-time to influence tactics.

^^^ What the fk is that all about? ^^^

Does the club need to employ a “director of football” to decipher that Shyte?

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by number 9 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:24 pm

tangfastic wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:50 pm
TBF.... we’ve got a decent crop of young players. Maybe the best we’ve had for years. Or maybe they look good in comparison against the senior players - who must be the poorest lot we’ve had since I can remember.
I think one of the problems is we develop good young players who don’t fit as the managers type of player. I mean Mick had his idea of what type of player he liked. If you buy in a player, you know usually what you’re getting. If you develop a player over 10 years in the academy- how do you know if they will fit in to a managers plans?
Maybe what Klug can produce and what the manager wants are two different things.
I think 'good' managers know how to take advantage of young talent. The problem is so many managers try to fit players into a scheme, rather than fitting the scheme for the players strengths. In all honesty, we only have few current academy players who can even cope at League One level. There's only so much Klug can do, and I think it all starts with the quality of player we recruit.

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by Bluemike » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:33 pm

Personally I think we are producing some really good young players in the last year or Two, wolfenden, Downes, Lankester, El Mizouni, Nydam, Folami, Dobra etc etc, I also don't agree Lambert is looking for something else seeing as he has played all of those a fair bit with the exception of Two severe season ending injuries. Add to those the likes Of Dozzell and Bishop who admittedly have both had their issues and I think the academy and Klug are doing us proud tbh, without it we would be fooked, especially with the situation going forward as youth is going to have to be our life blood.

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by number 9 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:59 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:33 pm
Personally I think we are producing some really good young players in the last year or Two, wolfenden, Downes, Lankester, El Mizouni, Nydam, Folami, Dobra etc etc, I also don't agree Lambert is looking for something else seeing as he has played all of those a fair bit with the exception of Two severe season ending injuries. Add to those the likes Of Dozzell and Bishop who admittedly have both had their issues and I think the academy and Klug are doing us proud tbh, without it we would be fooked, especially with the situation going forward as youth is going to have to be our life blood.
I agree with those players, but Wolfenden and Downes are the only consistent starters. I was expecting at League One level, many more of the youngsters to step up.

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by Bluemike » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:07 pm

Lankester would deffo have been playing a lot but for injury, possibly Nydam too so that's around 25 to 30% of the first team

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by hallamblue » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:50 pm

tangfastic wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:09 pm
marko69 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:32 pm
tangfastic wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:00 am
The large majority of the academy kids never make it near our first team squad anyway.....
This takes me back to when first joining this forum. Said something about Klug and the lack of true talent coming through the ranks yet he was on a pedestal.
My God! ...... was lynched! :lol:
You can abuse the owner, the manager and the players.... but you can never criticise Bryan Klug! This guy seems to possess legendary status around the club. You wait when Lambert gets sacked.... there’ll be a few wanting Klug as our new manager. He’s very well thought of, but I do wonder if he really deserves such a reputation.
I can’t remember the last academy product who’s made it at first team level and then been sold to a PL club. It must have been Conor Wickham and that was maybe ten or eleven years ago. Downes could be next in line.... and also Woolfenden.... but so few of our academy products actually make it with us and then go onto a higher level.
We might as well pick up the 1 million for Ben Knights or Charlie Brown from Man City or Chelsea when they’re school kids, because they could so easily not make it and get released.
Isn’t the lack of academy players in the senior squad more the managers call though and not Klug’s ?

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by hallamblue » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:51 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:07 pm
Lankester would deffo have been playing a lot but for injury, possibly Nydam too so that's around 25 to 30% of the first team
I can distinctly recall Klug saying the plan was to have upwards of 50% of the first team consisting of academy players .... I thought he said by 2021 🤔

I think CoVid will actually force this issue even more going into the new season. I can see many youngsters bring in the first team squad ( especially if the Club want to and have to offload seniors on higher wages )

Edit: looks like the salary cap is postponed for another season . Do Town effectively have a one season window to get promoted now. Would this encourage Evans to shell out for 2-3 experienced targets ie striker , CB and LB?

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by tangfastic » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:36 am

hallamblue wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:50 pm
tangfastic wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:09 pm
marko69 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:32 pm


This takes me back to when first joining this forum. Said something about Klug and the lack of true talent coming through the ranks yet he was on a pedestal.
My God! ...... was lynched! :lol:
You can abuse the owner, the manager and the players.... but you can never criticise Bryan Klug! This guy seems to possess legendary status around the club. You wait when Lambert gets sacked.... there’ll be a few wanting Klug as our new manager. He’s very well thought of, but I do wonder if he really deserves such a reputation.
I can’t remember the last academy product who’s made it at first team level and then been sold to a PL club. It must have been Conor Wickham and that was maybe ten or eleven years ago. Downes could be next in line.... and also Woolfenden.... but so few of our academy products actually make it with us and then go onto a higher level.
We might as well pick up the 1 million for Ben Knights or Charlie Brown from Man City or Chelsea when they’re school kids, because they could so easily not make it and get released.
Isn’t the lack of academy players in the senior squad more the managers call though and not Klug’s ?
Definitely, but do they talk to each other about what kind of player they want to produce. If Klug is producing good 16, 17, 18 year olds with bags of potential then maybe it’s best to cash in early and use the money to buy in players the manager wants. Before that young kid gets injured and/or loses their potential. Dozzell being the classic case. Can’t see the point of holding onto young players if they can’t deal with the physicality or not the right type of player the manager wants. Downes and Woolfenden are the exceptions because they can deal with the physical side of the game.

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by tangfastic » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:05 am

marko69 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:11 pm
Anyone got an answer for:

.....transfers were inspired by mathematical models & obscure stats were sent to the touchline at half-time to influence tactics.

^^^ What the fk is that all about? ^^^

Does the club need to employ a “director of football” to decipher that Shyte?
We actually do have a Director of Football. You don’t hear much about him, but Dave Bowman is our DoF. He’s really head of scouting and recruitment. He was brought here by Mick and surprisingly is still here. I don’t think he’s the type who could decipher mathematic models. Looks proper old school and big mate of Micks. Last year, Mick requested permission from Town so that Bowman could be on the Eire bench (as Technical Advisor) with him to mastermind victory over Gibraltar. Sounds like he’s got interests outside the club and would have thought it would be better to cut ties with the club due to his association with Mick. We do seem to have a bit of a weird setup when it comes to the business side to the club.

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by number 9 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:06 pm

Don't be surprised if the Ben Knight deals dry up now that we're a mid-table League One club. First and foremost, lets breed some talent that can get us back to the championship. I don't like the idea of selling our best youngsters, so the manager can bring in the bench warmers from teams we're competing against. Sure, if it's crazy money take it and run. It might be prudent though to invest those profits back into the academy...instead of buying washed out players the current manager deems significant.

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by marko69 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:19 pm

Thank God it’s not ex Jambo fuckwit, Dave Bowman. Had to google that. :shock:

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by marko69 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:39 pm

ON TOPIC for Brentford.

Must be the biggest game in their history tomorrow after WBA losing tonight.
Win @ Stoke City and they put destiny in their own hands with subsequently being 90 mins from the EPL.

Brentford in the EPL?

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by marko69 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:10 pm

marko69 wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:39 pm
ON TOPIC for Brentford.

Must be the biggest game in their history tomorrow after WBA losing tonight.
Win @ Stoke City and they put destiny in their own hands with subsequently being 90 mins from the EPL.

Brentford in the EPL?
Jinx

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by hallamblue » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:57 pm

I hope they make it 👍

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by Dubai Blue » Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:23 pm

Great final round of games with 3 teams all able to claim that last auto place.

Whose going to bottle it.........

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by marko69 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:58 pm

Completely forgot about those Wednesday night championship games! :shock: Very busy week.

Looks like Brentford were the ones who bottled it. Hope the Swans smash them over the 180 mins. Bottlers deserve fk all.

And Forest? Gubbed 4-1 @ home? That’s shocking.

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by number 9 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:45 pm

I'll be cheering for Brentford to get the win tomorrow and advance to the final. I'd prefer to see a new club make it to the prem, as opposed to the other 3 rejects. Nothing against Fulham but they had their chance, and Swansea and Cardiff can f*ck off back to Wales. It is the "English Premier League" after all! :wink:

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Re: Is Brentford FC the model we should consider ?

Post by number 9 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:48 am

Well done Brentford! Fingers crossed you’ll be in the Prem next season!

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