Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

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A big fixture, how will we fare?

Sunderland Win
6
35%
Ipswich Win
3
18%
Draw
8
47%
 
Total votes: 17

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Steve and Jo » Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:31 am

Steve and Jo wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:31 am
I cannot believe this Sunderland manager. He is saying Mark McGuinness made out the ball hit him in his face!!! He also said Dozell foot went over the ball, seriously man don't be a d*ck

https://www.safc.com/news/team-news/202 ... swich-town

Seriously OK Phil, your Sunderland won the game through very poor decisions but say it, don't go around trying to make out Sunderland are world beaters !!

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by marko69 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:34 am

Ando wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:59 pm
The pen decision

https://twitter.com/si_itfc/status/1323 ... 05248?s=21

it looks like McGuiness is hit in the face by the ball. Shocking.
The ball fell as an advantage to the Sunderland player who then hit the bar with a weak-a$$ shot against a giant keeper! Every time I see Holy, I'm very doubtful about the bloke.

But regardless......, the worst ref decision witnessed since last Saturday.

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Ando » Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:09 am

The fact the ball fell to a Sunderland player after hitting MCGuiness who then hit the bar had the advantage from the handball. So the ref should have played on as there was a clear advantage.

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by marko69 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:23 am

Ando wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:09 am
The fact the ball fell to a Sunderland player after hitting MCGuiness who then hit the bar had the advantage from the handball. So the ref should have played on as there was a clear advantage.
I don't know if you are correcting me here, but that was my point when I wrote "fell as an advantage".

Just took the opportunity to also state that the ball shouldn't have been hitting the bar......., should've been in Holy's gloves or at the very least tipped over.

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by tangfastic » Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:29 am

Andym wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:46 pm
The positives:

Apart from the first goal, the defence looked good.
Nsiala came back and was excellent.
It was good to see us turn it round. A goal down, struggling. ...and then being the better side for the majority of the game.
Bishop running at them.

The negatives:

2 very poor decisions.
Bad choice playing Jackson as a lone striker.

I have to say as much as I really like Dozzell, 5 yellows and a red suggest there's something wrong with his challenges.
Agreed. Ridiculous game-changing penalty decision aside - positives to be taken away from tonight. After half an hour I thought we were screwed, but we managed to get back into the game. Good to see a player like Bishop try to take the game by the scruff of the neck and go at their defence. Sunderland looked so comfortable and we so pedestrian until our goal. A bit of pace injected and it all opened up. I’m not sure we could have won that game, but the referee ultimately decided that we lost it.

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by AzzurroMark » Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:55 am

marko69 wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:34 am
Ando wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:59 pm
The pen decision

https://twitter.com/si_itfc/status/1323 ... 05248?s=21

it looks like McGuiness is hit in the face by the ball. Shocking.
The ball fell as an advantage to the Sunderland player who then hit the bar with a weak-a$$ shot against a giant keeper! Every time I see Holy, I'm very doubtful about the bloke.

But regardless......, the worst ref decision witnessed since last Saturday.
For me the telling thing is that the 2 Sunderland players, that you see in the picture, both have a clear view of McGuiness and neither man makes the slightest appeal for the penalty. This day and age, the modern footballer seems to have it ingrained to appeal instantaneously if the ball looks like it could have gone anywhere near the arm.
I have my doubt about both the red card and penalty incidents. However, with the fact i was;
a, watching on a smallish screen.
b. had no slow motion replay or freeze frame.

there is a chance that the decisions could have been correct. However until i see that evidence, i am more likely to concur with Hallam that those decisions were so ridiculous you really have to ask if other external factors were involved.

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by hallamblue » Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:00 am

Well one thing that was apparent from last night is that Sunderland are nothing special, and we really should ( would ) have won that game had they not had a massive helping of refs decisions swaying the game in their direction.

It’ll be nice when (if?), we get all our best players back fit . Then we’ll see the true Town. ATM we are 2nd on the back of an injury hit side. Not bad tbh .

COYBs 👍💙

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Dubai Blue » Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:44 am

For the pen it looks like the ref thought that McG cleared the ball with his arm not Toto IMO. Where was the lino?

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by tangfastic » Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:49 am

At the moment out of the injured , I’d say we need Downes most. A bit of bite and tenacity in midfield.

Norwood might have a problem getting into the side - i don’t think he’d walk back in. I’ve kind of forgotten about KVY, but he wouldn’t walk straight back into the team the way Chambers is playing.

And try and find a proper wide man. Sears didn’t nail it when given the chance... and Judge is not doing it for me (although he puts a shift in and has a decent cross in him). If KVY does get fit and Chambers keeps up his form.... I wouldn’t be against KVY playing as a winger. Got pace and has a goal in him... and can do the defensive shift. For the time being, Bennetts needs a start, but can see Lambert persevering with Judge.

Results aside.... I’ve taken positives out of that game last night. Came back into the match well when I didn’t think we had it in us.

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Bluemike » Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:17 pm

Very good point regarding KVY as a winger, could be a masterstroke.

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by rossi » Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:24 pm

ipswichtownNo1 wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:44 pm
Nice sarcasm, thanks for that, sorry if ive offended by calling bullshit. I have no trouble to comprehend the fact thats refs in league 1 may not be up to a certain standard but to say its our fault for getting relegated 2 seasons ago is just childish rossi.
Read my post again - CAREFULLY - and you will see that I never said it was our fault for getting relegated. It's simply that teams that get relegated (ANY team) to a lower division will have to expect lower refereeing standards. Funny, I wrote that post very slowly for the benefit of those who don't take things in as quickly as others - obviously I ought to have written it even slower :wink:

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by hallamblue » Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:32 pm

Thing is though rossi, why does professional football have to tolerate sub standard referees? These individuals have no place in the modern game at the Professional level - IMHO of course!

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Bluemike » Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:36 pm

It may sound dramatic but that decision alone could cost us Millions.

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Bluemike » Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:39 pm

The Club are appealing against the decision to red card Andre Dozzell during last night's defeat at Sunderland.

Blues have until tomorrow to provide written and video evidence to support the appeal with a disciplinary panel expected to make a decision on Friday.

👇 #itfc

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by hallamblue » Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:55 pm

Good I hope its rescinded. But it'll do bugger all for the points we've lost as result.

However I do agree with a previous post that AD is getting far too many cards. What's all that about? He's hardly an aggressive midfielder is he. But somethings not right with his tackling ability and it'll cost him and us dear. (Last night being a prime example perhaps )

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by marko69 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:17 pm

The club have to provide "video evidence"? It's your fecking league, EFL, and your refs. Dig out your own evidence ya "c" words.

"Provide" video evidence. Unreal.

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Bluemike » Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:55 pm

Some of his cards could be for minor stuff like kicking the ball away, I can't remember tbh.

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by tangfastic » Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:04 pm

I think Dozzell is a bit sneaky. The odd professional foul (pulling back players or taking one for the team) and he can go in a bit high and late at times. Can’t say I saw the challenge that well, but it looked innocuous. He looked like he was being fouled
and was going to ground as well.

How would this work? A 3 match ban and a clean slate OR a ban and keeping the 4 yellows?

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by goldandblack » Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:53 pm

hallamblue wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:32 pm
Thing is though rossi, why does professional football have to tolerate sub standard referees? These individuals have no place in the modern game at the Professional level - IMHO of course!
Hi Lis, hope all's well with your good self and the family.

the big answer to this is the lack of folk wanting to become referees, in the last 10/15 yrs because the agro they get from players, managers, and fans in Saturday and Sunday local grassroot leagues,

I attend a local referee's annual AGM and some of the physical and abuse they are reporting is tremendous, most of these matches a 3rd of the matches don't have a referee, and over half don't have linesmen,

So the answer is if you had say 1,000 new referees in training (if your lucky) probably only 20/30 will make it to a top standard, so as you go down the leagues the standards drop, I've been watching non league footie lately and you might as well not have ref or linesmen.
Back in the day when we had over 5,000 in training probably 100/150 of the best got to the top,

So really its all our fault these officials are not up to standard, sign of the times aye and a lack of respect.

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by hallamblue » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:29 pm

Hiya John, I knew that refs get abuse and that at grass roots level especially actual physical violence. So yes you’re right we are all to blame really. But it’s about organisational support too. Maybe if players were more heavily dealt with at all levels when they attack officials, people might get the right message, sad,y it’s a reflection of our society isn’t it. There’s no to,earn enough anymore.

Hope you and yours are keeping well? We haven’t seen much of you on here recently , so good to see you back posting 👍

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by hallamblue » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:30 pm

tangfastic wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:04 pm
I think Dozzell is a bit sneaky. The odd professional foul (pulling back players or taking one for the team) and he can go in a bit high and late at times. Can’t say I saw the challenge that well, but it looked innocuous. He looked like he was being fouled
and was going to ground as well.

How would this work? A 3 match ban and a clean slate OR a ban and keeping the 4 yellows?
I’ve actually seen AD foul for that red card , and he looks like he’s gone in with two feet. Maybe that’s what the ref saw? Is a two footed tackle an immediate red card?

4th item down ( sorry not very good at copying Twitter thingys)

https://twitter.com/hashtag/itfc?src=hashtag_click

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Andym » Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:21 pm

tangfastic wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:04 pm
I think Dozzell is a bit sneaky. The odd professional foul (pulling back players or taking one for the team) and he can go in a bit high and late at times. Can’t say I saw the challenge that well, but it looked innocuous. He looked like he was being fouled
and was going to ground as well.

How would this work? A 3 match ban and a clean slate OR a ban and keeping the 4 yellows?
I agree. His tackling isn't great.

I don't know if he keeps the yellows if he's banned but j imagine he does.
Does the ban get extended if the appeal is unsuccessful? I can't see it being rescinded, they usually support the ref.

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by goldandblack » Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:18 pm

hallamblue wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:29 pm
Hiya John, I knew that refs get abuse and that at grass roots level especially actual physical violence. So yes you’re right we are all to blame really. But it’s about organisational support too. Maybe if players were more heavily dealt with at all levels when they attack officials, people might get the right message, sad,y it’s a reflection of our society isn’t it. There’s no to,earn enough anymore.

Hope you and yours are keeping well? We haven’t seen much of you on here recently , so good to see you back posting 👍
All well here my friend thanks. Donna sends her regards to you and Mike.

Whatever happened to our simple game, just understanding the offside rule now you need a degree. now we have VAR because of the cheating big girls blouses that we call footballers these days, As you say they don't help, Would you want to be a ref, :?

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Bluemike » Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:24 am

Great to see you back John and regards to you, Donna and your loved ones

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by tangfastic » Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:59 am

I can’t see Dozzell’s being rescinded, especially as our disciplinary record is pretty bad. Nolan’s red card went under the radar a bit because much of the talk was the Toto penalty thing - but that was a nasty, unnecessary, potentially leg-breaking challenge. Lambert’s response on that was daft and couldn’t have made any friends at the FA. We’re not a physical side - and we need to be more physical - but we pick up too many cards. Im wondering if we pick up these cards from over-compensating our lack of physicality.
Still not sure if Dozzells tackle was two-footed. Maybe both feet were off the ground, but the feet. were apart and he looked like he was going to ground because of a challenge behind and not because he lined up the tackle. The referee was very well-positioned if that means anything.

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Ricco » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:38 am

Yeah he kind of flopped down on his arse, it was "two footed" I guess, but he was stationary, he had no momentum or force behind him.

If the rule is off your feet with two feet, then by the book it may well be red, I don't know how much common sense or up to the ref's interpretation they build in to modern rules, not much by the looks of it, the hand ball crap at the moment is a good case in point.

They won't rescind it, they rarely do, pretty much only when it's a case of mistaken identity or something stupid like that. It was right in front of the ref who had a clear view, better not even challenging it and getting extra games tagged on to the ban sadly. Madness.

Probably worth pointing out that the red card and penalty in this game shows just how munted the rules are and the incompetent idiots that make them. Those who complain about technology should take note of that, technology can't be blamed, it's how humans implement it that makes it a positive or negative. This match shows that rules outside of technology are far from being all butterflies and perfection.

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by tangfastic » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:56 am

Ricco wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:38 am
Yeah he kind of flopped down on his arse, it was "two footed" I guess, but he was stationary, he had no momentum or force behind him.

If the rule is off your feet with two feet, then by the book it may well be red, I don't know how much common sense or up to the ref's interpretation they build in to modern rules, not much by the looks of it, the hand ball crap at the moment is a good case in point.

They won't rescind it, they rarely do, pretty much only when it's a case of mistaken identity or something stupid like that. It was right in front of the ref who had a clear view, better not even challenging it and getting extra games tagged on to the ban sadly. Madness.
It feels like the law-makers are trying to take away any discretion or common sense from the refs. So maybe the referee is not solely to blame. A ref should be able to realise that the handball was completely accidental and the players involved were not trying to gain an advantage. In fact, the incident handed Sunderland a decent chance.

Many moons ago when they brought in the penalty rule I’m sure it was done to reward an attacking team for blatant cheating or foul play when there was an obvious goal-scoring opportunity - and also act as a deterrent to stop cheating or foul play. None of that fits in at all with that incident and with so many others. They’re rewarding a side when - at the time of the handball - they didn’t create a goal-scoring opportunity and they’re punishing a team for an accidental piece of bad luck.

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by AzzurroMark » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:24 am

tangfastic wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:56 am
Ricco wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:38 am
Yeah he kind of flopped down on his arse, it was "two footed" I guess, but he was stationary, he had no momentum or force behind him.

If the rule is off your feet with two feet, then by the book it may well be red, I don't know how much common sense or up to the ref's interpretation they build in to modern rules, not much by the looks of it, the hand ball crap at the moment is a good case in point.

They won't rescind it, they rarely do, pretty much only when it's a case of mistaken identity or something stupid like that. It was right in front of the ref who had a clear view, better not even challenging it and getting extra games tagged on to the ban sadly. Madness.
It feels like the law-makers are trying to take away any discretion or common sense from the refs. So maybe the referee is not solely to blame. A ref should be able to realise that the handball was completely accidental and the players involved were not trying to gain an advantage. In fact, the incident handed Sunderland a decent chance.

Many moons ago when they brought in the penalty rule I’m sure it was done to reward an attacking team for blatant cheating or foul play when there was an obvious goal-scoring opportunity - and also act as a deterrent to stop cheating or foul play. None of that fits in at all with that incident and with so many others. They’re rewarding a side when - at the time of the handball - they didn’t create a goal-scoring opportunity and they’re punishing a team for an accidental piece of bad luck.
Totally agree on that point Tang. I remember when it was (and believe that it should be still) when a clear goal scoring chance is denied by unfair play. The Sunderland penalty was never in that category, any perceived handball was totally accidental and, as somebody mentioned earlier, only enhanced Sunderland's chances of scoring (which their player blazed over) .

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Bluemike » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:27 am

All you need to know was that the Sunderland players actually said it wasn't a penalty, enough said.

Ricci, as for VAR, I take it you arent watching many games atm cus it's horseshit and running the game completely, as angry as I was with the decisions Tuesday evening I would take that all day long over this VAR bollocks

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Re: Sunderland AFC vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Ricco » Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:02 am

Bluemike wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:27 am
All you need to know was that the Sunderland players actually said it wasn't a penalty, enough said.

Ricci, as for VAR, I take it you arent watching many games atm cus it's horseshit and running the game completely, as angry as I was with the decisions Tuesday evening I would take that all day long over this VAR bollocks
It is complete and utter horse sh*t of the highest order!! I completely agree, but it's the soft squidgy humans with little brains that are making it that way.

It's like saying digital calculators are bad because the designers made them so you had to eat the calculator before you get the answer. We'll it's not technology that's wrong, it's the fecking idiots that designed it in that way.

VAR needs to be scrapped immediately, but back to the drawing board, there will successfully be a place for technology in the future. Take the ball over the line system, any problem with that? It's failed what? once? far fewer times than humans would have and that could have been solved if the refs were not numpties. That works, that's technology in football.

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