Question for you all...

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hallamblue
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Question for you all...

Post by hallamblue » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:47 am

Could our current fittest / strongest 11 players beat Posh on Saturday if we had a different manager ?

tangfastic
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Re: Question for you all...

Post by tangfastic » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:02 am

It’s pretty much impossible to answer that because we don’t know who the different manager is.

It might be better to ask if Paul Lambert can beat Posh with his strongest side. Once again, impossible to answer because he won’t have his strongest side. That’s always going to be his excuse until he gets players fit..... and that could never be the case in this club.

The thing is... have we ever had a time under Lambert when we’re at full strength playing both winning, dominant and quality football? I can’t recall that.

Looking at the players we’re supposedly missing most - Downes, Edwards, Norwood, Bishop and KVY.

For me, Edwards has been our best player this season. But last season he was a fringe player and many thought he was crap. Norwood has hardly been fit and still has something to prove. Bishop has been injured for the best part of 5 years and it’s been somewhat of a miracle he strung together 10 games this season. KVY has been out for a year and has only played 9 games for the club (2 of which he came of injured), so he’s got something to prove as well.
Downes is one who could be described as our best asset and last season’s best player. But he didn’t make that much difference to our poor results last year.
Getting all these players back would definitely strengthen the team. How much influence they would make - I have no idea, but I’m not convinced that Lambert can get that much out of his team.

As for this moment, Lambert has to focus on getting as much from his squad as possible. And I don’t think he is. I think he just needs to go back to basics now. Make us harder to beat, play more direct football with two up front and scrape as many points as we can. Forget the possession football... it’s not working.

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Frosty
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Re: Question for you all...

Post by Frosty » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:04 am

No reason why not, I think its our one dimensional tactics that probably let us down at times. In my opinion we have as good players and you could argue proven players for that matter.

In this league basically anyone can beat anyone, it's beyond me the mental block we seem to have when playing top teams as this is normally when a side lifts it's game rather than goes into it's shell.

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marko69
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Re: Question for you all...

Post by marko69 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:46 am

Agree with both Frosty & Tang, especially when Tang says “Lambert needs to focus on getting the best” ....... and that’s it for me regarding your question Hallam, ———> Motivation.
So for me, YES, another manager could no doubt get these players more fired up for Posh. No names, but there will be another guy out there not as wrist slicing boring who could create a buzz in the dressing room.

Then......... at the end of the season, fire ALL the players who needed a major helping hand in getting fired up for their 90 minutes a week work.
Ok, I understand it’s sometimes 180 minutes a week work and that’s bordering on real proper stress, but still.

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Bluemike
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Re: Question for you all...

Post by Bluemike » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:03 am

They want to come and work with this sh*t, then they'd know what stress is, as we speak I'm trying to get motivated to manually shift 30 covid infected Air Mattresses. They make me f**king laugh.

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Andym
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Re: Question for you all...

Post by Andym » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:04 am

Frosty is right, all teams are beatable in this league.

Not sure I'd be happy with the tactics Tangmere suggests, defending solidly and lumping long balls at a big striker. MM's undoing was that; it'll keep some fans happy if it gets results, but if you lose there is nothing left.

It is the lack of adaptability from the manager and lack of confidence from the players that is the issue. We started well with one up front, but injuries have taken out the individuals picking up the goals. And Lambert hasn't adapted to the players available, sticking with the same formation which doesn't work when players aren't getting up to support the lonext striker.

The lack of confidence manifests itself in two ways, Firstly, we are moving less offor the ball, making sideways/backward passing the norm as no one moves into space. When fans moaned and groaned on Tuesday when we played backwards, I thought if only they wouldn't blame the bloke on the ball but instead blame those in front who weren't making runs or moving into space.
The second aspect is that when the opportunity arises to try a killer pass, we have lost the confidence to try. Either that or the players lack the vision to see it. Dozzell is the exception. Bennetts and Dobra at least try to take players on in the final third.

It is understandable why we lack that confidence. The equaliser on Tuesday came from anow attempt at an ambitious diagonal pass. It missed its target, Chambers gets blamed for being out of position despite it bwing his role to get forward - the blame surely lies with the misplaced pass.

I've wandered off the point.... the short answer is yes. At the start of the season,playing out ftom the back and one up front, we could beat anyone.

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Re: Question for you all...

Post by tangfastic » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:29 am

Andym wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:04 am
Frosty is right, all teams are beatable in this league.

Not sure I'd be happy with the tactics Tangmere suggests, defending solidly and lumping long balls at a big striker. MM's undoing was that; it'll keep some fans happy if it gets results, but if you lose there is nothing left.

It is the lack of adaptability from the manager and lack of confidence from the players that is the issue. We started well with one up front, but injuries have taken out the individuals picking up the goals. And Lambert hasn't adapted to the players available, sticking with the same formation which doesn't work when players aren't getting up to support the lonext striker.

The lack of confidence manifests itself in two ways, Firstly, we are moving less offor the ball, making sideways/backward passing the norm as no one moves into space. When fans moaned and groaned on Tuesday when we played backwards, I thought if only they wouldn't blame the bloke on the ball but instead blame those in front who weren't making runs or moving into space.
The second aspect is that when the opportunity arises to try a killer pass, we have lost the confidence to try. Either that or the players lack the vision to see it. Dozzell is the exception. Bennetts and Dobra at least try to take players on in the final third.

It is understandable why we lack that confidence. The equaliser on Tuesday came from anow attempt at an ambitious diagonal pass. It missed its target, Chambers gets blamed for being out of position despite it bwing his role to get forward - the blame surely lies with the misplaced pass.

I've wandered off the point.... the short answer is yes. At the start of the season,playing out ftom the back and one up front, we could beat anyone.
We could do that at the start of the season because teams were willing to try and get the ball of our back four when we were passing around our penalty area kamikazi-style. That stretched them and created more space in midfield. Then teams just realised if they let us have the ball and sat back then we’d just pass around the back four and GK. No space in midfield and so the ball got punted up anyway with their opposition all set up defensively. I see our style as mostly long ball anyway - it’s just we do 20 meaningless sideways and backwards passes first. I can’t say we’re playing attractive, passing football - it’s just long ball dressed up.

Might as well try and get the ball to Hawkins as quickly as possible and have willing runners trying to get onto the second phase ball when the opposition aren’t set up. I think we’re pretty good when we have space in the final third. Look at the first ten minutes against Burton - we had intensity and Hawkins brought in other players. It was enjoyable to watch. And then we sat back and resorted to norm.
At the moment, I think we need to forget about having fancy pretensions that we see ourselves as a footballing side. Get some results and some confidence first and then the football quality should improve.

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number 9
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Re: Question for you all...

Post by number 9 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:07 pm

Fans have been crying for pretty football for years! That’s exactly what the club is trying achieve with consistent tactics throughout the organization. Lambert has chosen 4-3-3 as the dominant formation which has proven to be ineffective with key players out injured. I think we can stick to possession football, but tactically formations need to be adjusted for the players who are available. I don’t think our performances would change that much with a different manager right now. I think the younger players still need time to grow, and we need to replace some of our experienced, senior players with better options. Judge and Huws come to mind. Another thought... I think we’ve been poor defensively. Maybe Lambert needs to take a look at the back line, rather than resorting to McCarthy route one football?

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rossi
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Re: Question for you all...

Post by rossi » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:35 pm

yes, Liz, I think a different manager could do far better with the players we have at our disposal.

Where Lambert falls down is in the fact that he's a one-dimensional manager who understands little about the game beyond what he wants to play.

It's fine trying to play attractive football if you have the players that can do it. 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 work very well for most Premier League clubs, but they do have the players good enough to play those formations. Sadly, the squad we have - the squad that had diminished in quality ever since ME took over and is currently accelerating - is simply not good enough to play that way, hence the amount of sideways and backwards passing and consequential lack of forward progress.

We have 2 strikers who are good in the air and at hold-up play (Drinan, Hawkins), and 3 strikers who are quick and better on the ground than in the air (Norwood, Jackson, Sears). So, injuries permitting, the formation should always be 2 up front - one hold up man and the other with pace. That means we really ought to be playing either 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 or 5-3-2. In my opinion, they are the only systems that suit the squad we have.

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Andym
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Re: Question for you all...

Post by Andym » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:30 pm

I really don't see why possession football has to be beyond our players. If you can't pass then you shouldn't be playing. And we shouldn't be signing them.

MM argued that it's better to win then play attractive football. But they aren't mutually exclusive. It's better to win AND play attractive football. If you lose, it's still been worth watching. But as MM found, if you don't play attractive football, when you lose there's nothing left.

Anyone who can pass can play out from the back All you need is:
1. People moving into space so you can pass to thrm from the back.
2. People making runs up front to stretch the defence.
3. People having the confidence to get in the box.
4. Players on the ball having the confidence to try the final pass.
5. Fans accrpt5ing that a misplaced pass will leave players out of position and the team vulnerable. But for me that's better than long balls to isolated strikers who might win a few of them, and occasionally hang on to it long enough for support to catch up.

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Re: Question for you all...

Post by mugen1 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:38 pm

No.

Some individual players have moments of skill, as a team though we are poor. Little communication, little cohesiveness, the pride is no longer evident, the willingness to bust a gut for team & fans is sadly lacking.

Too much side to side & backwards passing of the ball.

Diabolical set pieces.

It's the same season after season. Makes me wonder what the hell goes on in training. Pretty sure I've said similar before :(

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Re: Question for you all...

Post by mugen1 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:42 pm

Andym wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:30 pm
I really don't see why possession football has to be beyond our players. If you can't pass then you shouldn't be playing. And we shouldn't be signing them.

MM argued that it's better to win then play attractive football. But they aren't mutually exclusive. It's better to win AND play attractive football. If you lose, it's still been worth watching. But as MM found, if you don't play attractive football, when you lose there's nothing left.

Anyone who can pass can play out from the back All you need is:
1. People moving into space so you can pass to thrm from the back.
2. People making runs up front to stretch the defence.
3. People having the confidence to get in the box.
4. Players on the ball having the confidence to try the final pass.
5. Fans accrpt5ing that a misplaced pass will leave players out of position and the team vulnerable. But for me that's better than long balls to isolated strikers who might win a few of them, and occasionally hang on to it long enough for support to catch up.
Agreed.

Passing continually backwards just invites teams onto us. How about we do the majority of the attacking for a change? Shoot ffs when in position to do so, stop trying to walk it into the back of the net. This was something I felt we were doing better at the start of the season. As is the Ipswich way though, it was a false dawn.

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marko69
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Re: Question for you all...

Post by marko69 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:13 pm

You met false Dawn as well, Mugen? Went too far with the boob job eh?

mugen1
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Re: Question for you all...

Post by mugen1 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:38 pm

Fabulous assets Marko, fabulous assets :mrgreen:

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Dubai Blue
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Re: Question for you all...

Post by Dubai Blue » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:40 am

mugen1 wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:42 pm

Passing continually backwards just invites teams onto us.
I think that's actually the idea, to create space in MF to move into and be creative with. To stretch the play. But as mentioned earlier there needs to be certain things going on further forwards also and maybe some of our kids are not quite savvy enough yet, which is not their fault.

With a bit of luck they are learning fast.....

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marko69
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Re: Question for you all...

Post by marko69 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:03 pm

I’ve never understood the “kids aren’t savvy enough yet” thinking.
Most of them play the game from 8 years old, gaining experience each and every year that passes, playing alongside essentially similar players throughout until they get a contract at 15/16 years old........ then they play in B teams for years, ...... then, when put into first team? Fking LOST?? 🤷‍♂️
I say that’s Bryan Klugs fault, (or similar job in other clubs) for not noticing the faults. That’s PART of their job.
If they end up out of their depth or aren’t savvy at first team level, sack all the coaches and start again.
Jaysus H fkn C.

If I choose a boiler to install and it breaks down constantly, is the customer going to be lenient with an “oh well” attitude?
Naw, he’s going to blame me for choosing the piece of sh*t.

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Dubai Blue
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Re: Question for you all...

Post by Dubai Blue » Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:30 am

I think that every time you step up a level in any sport you get new little kinks and tricks to negotiate as well as in this case older guys who have learnt how to use their often heavier bodies to best effect. Not to mention kiddology with the ref and little fouls.

tangfastic
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Re: Question for you all...

Post by tangfastic » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:51 am

I get your point, DB.... having key senior players not available will affect the team, but to single out the youngsters is not really telling the whole story. For most of this season, senior players like Huws, Sears, Judge and Nolan have been available - but they haven’t imposed themselves as much as they should have. Nolan, at least, has a finish in him if he gets an opportunity, but so often slows the ball down. I think McGavin’s done well - he needs to learn, but he doesn’t get out-muscled that much, as opposed to some of these senior players. The one young player who needs to up his game is Woolfenden- too casual so often. But this is Woolf’s third senior season and he’s got 50 appearances. Lankester, also, drifts out of games, but I’d prefer him to Judge or Sears on the wing.

The flip side to ‘not savvy enough’ is that youngsters can be more fearless and positive whereas many senior players tend to have that coached out of them and tend to go the risk-free route.

We can lay the blame down at the young CB’s, but we have senior player options available at CB if you bring in Toto and Chambers can switch to CB and Donacien comes in at RB. So the idea that we’ve been forced to rely too heavily on youngsters isn’t quite true as someone like Donacien rarely makes the 18. Huws wasn’t in the 18 a couple of games back during the injury crisis.

And Lambert should have brought Dobra into the 18 much earlier , especially when Bishop and Edwards got injured. Without players who can run at defenders and break the lines and create space we’re pretty toothless.

Looking forward to senior players coming back (hopefully), but I don’t quite agree with Lambert’s assertion that it’s just the kids... there’s been quite a number of senior players underperforming.

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saint jude
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Re: Question for you all...

Post by saint jude » Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:31 pm

Focus on the opening debate and take it from there. More often than not when a new coach comes in after a name has been fired / resigned the team wins it's next game. Maybe the players have a point to prove or something kicks in / they raise their game a level.

All hypothetical here and while it doesn't work every time I'd be doubtful it would work for us anyhow as morale is low and consistency is almost non-evident when it comes to winning games or required performance. Maybe it would go our way for a while but soon revert to what we're used to. Seen it numerous times with different clubs over enough time.

Lambert doesn't seem to know how to get the best out the players. Often deploys ineffective selections or makes changes at pivotal times during games that has an adverse effect on eventual results. A new manager could address that but it's all if's and maybes. Maybe work for a short time but can't really see it as a long-term solution. $64,000 question remains what manager or name you expect to be here to improve the situation.

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