Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

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Whats our respose to Saturdays loss going to be?

Ipswich Win
2
11%
Sunderland Win
13
72%
Draw
3
17%
 
Total votes: 18

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Andym
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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Andym » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:05 pm

valleyroad wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:57 pm
Nice to see some positive comments tonight. Played well and for me there is potential in the team. Got to start getting results though. Not getting breaks but not helped by what Jackson did tonight.
Definitely a better performance but the sending off allowed us to defend (which overall we did pretty well) but it hid the fact that we don’t create. Not sure why Nolan started ahead of Bishop, one goes backwards and one goes forwards. Playing with 10 men gave us the opportunity to show what we do well and not try to do the things e don’t do well (attack). But few poor performances out there, plenty of effort if lacking class. Inexperience at the centre of defence cost us as much as the sending off s as both central defenders were nowhere to be seen for the goal. McmGuinness in no Man’s land. No Idea where Woolfenden was.
Still, result apart as enjoyable a performance s any recently

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by AzzurroMark » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:25 pm

Thought Keith Andrews came across well on Sky. As he said, that was not the perfornance of a team where the dressing room was lost.
Liked Luke Thomas and it just a shame now that Harrop is still out for the Crewe game, as we really do need him.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Magicmark » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:36 pm

Again didn't look like we had a goal in us,most of the scumberland side looked like Bambi on ice,falling over at any given opportunity, on a positive note we did well not to get a hammering.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by AzzurroMark » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:58 pm

You could probably tell it wasn't going to be Kayden Jackson's night when the referee blew the whistle to signal for players to take a knee and he thought the game was starting, so kicked off and proceeded to run from the centre circle, just as the other players were down on a knee. You could see Downes was literally pissing himself holding a laugh in.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Charnwood » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:21 am

I see Kayden Jackson has taken to Twitter tonight to apologise for his sending off and taking full responsibility for Town dropping three points. Can’t ask for more than that although to be fair it shouldn’t have happened.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Magicmark » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:26 am

It wasn't intentional & way the Sunderland players were falling over,they were just looking to frustrate.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Bluemike » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:26 am

Worst possible outcome tonight, another bloody excuse which gets him more time, I wish we had capitulated and got thrashed. This just gives it more time for our season to die, I didn't even watch the second half such was the obvious conclusion to the evening. Let's hope Crewe take us apart again Saturday

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Dubai Blue » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:31 am

Or maybe after a performance showing grit and character and some return to form from the likes of Downes & Edwards & Nolan and some flashes from Thomas maybe we can see a chance that there is some light at the end of the tunnel?

Just hope Norwood is ready to return.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Bluemike » Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:15 am

It's a false dawn, Andy summed it up perfectly, it allowed us to do what we do well, we're never going to score even with Eleven on the field. A fair few seemed to be being sucked in by an excellent battling defeat. The reality of it is Sunderland are absolute garbage too, seen them twice now and they are every bit as bad as us, only difference is they have a striker that can score.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by tangfastic » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:01 am

Bluemike wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:15 am
It's a false dawn, Andy summed it up perfectly, it allowed us to do what we do well, we're never going to score even with Eleven on the field. A fair few seemed to be being sucked in by an excellent battling defeat. The reality of it is Sunderland are absolute garbage too, seen them twice now and they are every bit as bad as us, only difference is they have a striker that can score.
Agreed. Taken in isolation, that was a creditable, battling defeat against the odds. But even then we can’t do a creditable, battling draw ... or even a win. It’s too far gone for Lambo to claw this back. I’m fed up looking for positives.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by rossi » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:52 am

Andym wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:15 pm
Magicmark wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:13 pm
Andym wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:06 pm
Yes not sure it was malicious. But so unnecessary
Didn't look it to me,just clumsy, sky commentary made out He'd been butchered.
Yes. Typical strikers challenge. [bLooked bad but no real intent to harm[/b]. He’s just a player with pace and no real ability. The challenge was just an example of his lack of coordination really
I'm sorry, Andy, but once again I have to disagree with you. I am in no way trying to be confrontational with you, we obviously see many things in different ways.

Anyway, how do you know it was not intentional? You don't know, any more than I do. In fact the only person who really knows is Jackson himself.

I thought it was a horrible tackle, the type that I have seen result in broken legs in the past, and he fully deserved the red card.

He had a golden opportunity tonight, playing as the lone striker. Instead of taking it, he let himself his team and his manager down by his lack of professionalism and self control. He's a turd.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by rossi » Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:06 am

Bluemike wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:15 am
It's a false dawn, Andy summed it up perfectly, it allowed us to do what we do well, we're never going to score even with Eleven on the field. A fair few seemed to be being sucked in by an excellent battling defeat. The reality of it is Sunderland are absolute garbage too, seen them twice now and they are every bit as bad as us, only difference is they have a striker that can score.
Good call - I thought Sunderland were crap. Actually I think watching them play is very similar to watching us - slow and ponderous with far too much sideways and backwards passing and going nowhere, and no creativity. The only difference, as you so rightly say, is that they have a striker who can actually score

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by AzzurroMark » Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:24 am

Bluemike wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:15 am
It's a false dawn, Andy summed it up perfectly, it allowed us to do what we do well, we're never going to score even with Eleven on the field. A fair few seemed to be being sucked in by an excellent battling defeat. The reality of it is Sunderland are absolute garbage too, seen them twice now and they are every bit as bad as us, only difference is they have a striker that can score.
I believe that some were just surprised how we kept a decent shape and generally defended well, when in a previous home match we conceded 3 to lowly Swindon with 11 on the pitch! I was never expecting great things, taking into consideration our record (Sky/top 10 teams), Sunderland being unbeaten away and with a miserly defence.

Would people have been expecting more with 11 on the pitch? I think yes they would, so i do get the train of thought that it allowed us to do what we do better, without truly shining a light on our attack (or lack of) so much.

I have made no secret of the fact that i was prepared to give PL more time (i know i am in a minority) to see how we did with players like Edwards, Downes and Bishop coming back. Jackson has now stupidly made this harder for the Crewe game, as we once again lack strikers! I will always try to see the positives, and the way we performed (bar the red card) deserved some credit, as was also given by the Sky pundits.

.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Andym » Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:45 am

rossi wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:52 am
Andym wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:15 pm
Magicmark wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:13 pm


Didn't look it to me,just clumsy, sky commentary made out He'd been butchered.
Yes. Typical strikers challenge. [bLooked bad but no real intent to harm[/b]. He’s just a player with pace and no real ability. The challenge was just an example of his lack of coordination really
I'm sorry, Andy, but once again I have to disagree with you. I am in no way trying to be confrontational with you, we obviously see many things in different ways.

Anyway, how do you know it was not intentional? You don't know, any more than I do. In fact the only person who really knows is Jackson himself.

I thought it was a horrible tackle, the type that I have seen result in broken legs in the past, and he fully deserved the red card.

He had a golden opportunity tonight, playing as the lone striker. Instead of taking it, he let himself his team and his manager down by his lack of professionalism and self control. He's a turd.
I agree it could have broken his leg. And that he wasted a golden opportunity.

It is indeed hard to say if there was intent. Maybe I’m being too generous. I’ve never really rated him. He had little to offer other than pace. If he’s not played on the shoulder of the last defender he’s wasted. Tackling and winning the ball is clearly not his game 😂.

I find it hard with slow motion replays which always make a late tackle look terrible. But I certainly wouldn’t argue about it deserving a red card.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by rossi » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:02 am

Andym wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:45 am
rossi wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:52 am
Andym wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:15 pm


Yes. Typical strikers challenge. [bLooked bad but no real intent to harm[/b]. He’s just a player with pace and no real ability. The challenge was just an example of his lack of coordination really
I'm sorry, Andy, but once again I have to disagree with you. I am in no way trying to be confrontational with you, we obviously see many things in different ways.

Anyway, how do you know it was not intentional? You don't know, any more than I do. In fact the only person who really knows is Jackson himself.

I thought it was a horrible tackle, the type that I have seen result in broken legs in the past, and he fully deserved the red card.

He had a golden opportunity tonight, playing as the lone striker. Instead of taking it, he let himself his team and his manager down by his lack of professionalism and self control. He's a turd.
I agree it could have broken his leg. And that he wasted a golden opportunity.

It is indeed hard to say if there was intent. Maybe I’m being too generous. I’ve never really rated him. He had little to offer other than pace. If he’s not played on the shoulder of the last defender he’s wasted. Tackling and winning the ball is clearly not his game 😂.

I find it hard with slow motion replays which always make a late tackle look terrible. But I certainly wouldn’t argue about it deserving a red card.
I too have never rated him - I agree with you that his only real attribute is pace. That would be fine if he had the footballing brain to get himself into situations and positions to exploit that, but sadly he appears not to. Pity - if he had a brain he would be dangerous.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by rossi » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:08 am

AzzurroMark wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:24 am
Bluemike wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:15 am
It's a false dawn, Andy summed it up perfectly, it allowed us to do what we do well, we're never going to score even with Eleven on the field. A fair few seemed to be being sucked in by an excellent battling defeat. The reality of it is Sunderland are absolute garbage too, seen them twice now and they are every bit as bad as us, only difference is they have a striker that can score.
I believe that some were just surprised how we kept a decent shape and generally defended well, when in a previous home match we conceded 3 to lowly Swindon with 11 on the pitch! I was never expecting great things, taking into consideration our record (Sky/top 10 teams), Sunderland being unbeaten away and with a miserly defence.

Would people have been expecting more with 11 on the pitch? I think yes they would, so i do get the train of thought that it allowed us to do what we do better, without truly shining a light on our attack (or lack of) so much.

I have made no secret of the fact that i was prepared to give PL more time (i know i am in a minority) to see how we did with players like Edwards, Downes and Bishop coming back. Jackson has now stupidly made this harder for the Crewe game, as we once again lack strikers! I will always try to see the positives, and the way we performed (bar the red card) deserved some credit, as was also given by the Sky pundits.

.
well I reckon that in time you will go the same way as Mike - ever since he has been contributing to this board he has been Mr Optimistic, and I have known him on many occasions berating posters who have said they wish the team would lose in order to hasten the sacking of this or that manager and saying that no real fan would ever wish a loss on their team under any circumstance - and yet look at him now. If the situation has finally worn Mike down, I see no hope for any of us ;)

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Bluemike » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:23 am

That is true, long after everyone turned on Jewell, Mccarthy and Hurst I was standing pretty much alone in defence of them until the bitter end when it had become impossible to defend them anymore, this for me is different, Lambert is in League One ffs, he has a better squad than Hurst ever had and yet at a lower level is f**king it up, this season is crucial to us but already its over, we are consigned to League One forever and a day.

I also cannot abide the utter ridiculous post match comments every week telling us how good we were when in fact we were dire, the constant insistence in going with one striker against sh*te teams, poor team selection and woeful substitutions week after week.

I have as Rossi says always been Mr Positive when everyone is down but this is even beyond me, make no mistake about it, without change we will die as a football club as we know it.

Paul Cook or Eddie Howe anyone ?

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by AzzurroMark » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:38 am

rossi wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:08 am
AzzurroMark wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:24 am

.
! I will always try to see the positives,

.
well I reckon that in time you will go the same way as Mike - ever since he has been contributing to this board he has been Mr Optimistic, and I have known him on many occasions berating posters who have said they wish the team would lose in order to hasten the sacking of this or that manager and saying that no real fan would ever wish a loss on their team under any circumstance - and yet look at him now. If the situation has finally worn Mike down, I see no hope for any of us ;)
I dare say :) . I guess everybody has their breaking point. Was certainly surprised to see Mike "go over to the other side" :lol: . However i totally understand it when he is one of those fans who has spent thousands of £ and hours dedicated to following Ipswich! While we all have our views, I am more distanced from the hardcore support base. Usually 5-6 PR visits per season (although i did hold a season ticket for about 4 seasons in the early 2000s). BM is also paying out this season....and what for? There is virtually no return on his investment and that must be infuriating. In his shoes i would probably have been calling for change before Mike was :wink: :lol: . it is not that i don't see the ineptitude of PL, nor get infuriated by his post-match comments, just for some reason i look for excuses (and that is probably all they are) for things to improve.

One thing Gary, i don't think it will take too many more poor performances before enough is enough even for me :lol: .

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by AzzurroMark » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:44 am

Just had this text from a Newcastle fan, who was understandably an 'adopted' Ipswich fan last night. Yes, she has to suffer Newcastle being pretty inept and has not had to suffer the dross Ipswich serve up, but interesting to see how a neutral sees it.
"10 men for 80 mins, rain-sodden slippery pitch. Ipswich OK. Energetic, attacked with speed when poss (honest!), no dreary passing among back 5 (or 3, or 4) like Newcastle. Last 15 mins S/land were worried. Thomas promising. Your lads much more purposeful than mine. Good goal for S/land though. Pity!"

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by tangfastic » Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:18 am

AzzurroMark wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:24 am
Bluemike wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:15 am
It's a false dawn, Andy summed it up perfectly, it allowed us to do what we do well, we're never going to score even with Eleven on the field. A fair few seemed to be being sucked in by an excellent battling defeat. The reality of it is Sunderland are absolute garbage too, seen them twice now and they are every bit as bad as us, only difference is they have a striker that can score.
I believe that some were just surprised how we kept a decent shape and generally defended well, when in a previous home match we conceded 3 to lowly Swindon with 11 on the pitch! I was never expecting great things, taking into consideration our record (Sky/top 10 teams), Sunderland being unbeaten away and with a miserly defence.

Would people have been expecting more with 11 on the pitch? I think yes they would, so i do get the train of thought that it allowed us to do what we do better, without truly shining a light on our attack (or lack of) so much.

I have made no secret of the fact that i was prepared to give PL more time (i know i am in a minority) to see how we did with players like Edwards, Downes and Bishop coming back. Jackson has now stupidly made this harder for the Crewe game, as we once again lack strikers! I will always try to see the positives, and the way we performed (bar the red card) deserved some credit, as was also given by the Sky pundits.

.
In ways, the sending off lowered the bar and took the pressure of us to attack and force the game. It was simple - get two rows of four and five in front of Sunderland and frustrate them - which we did. If we only play better with reduced expectations and with that underdog mentality- then we’re not cut out to be promotion contenders.

No-one knows, but with 11 v 11 it would have been a completely different game. All the pressure would have been on us to force the game and it could well have been a typical Town performance where we struggle to break down a defence and get caught out on the break. I’m not sure what we can take out of that game to get a picture of where we are. Fair play to the team for not capitulating and showing a bit of character - but we need more than that if we still have any ambition.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by hallamblue » Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:47 am

I thought Sunderland we frankly very ordinary and with nothing particularly striking about them. I doubt they will be in that top six come the end of the season.

But the truly sad thing is, they have taken 6 points off us this season ( albeit against our 10 man teams), a fact which says more about where we now are as a Club, than them.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by mugen1 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:24 pm

Charnwood wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:21 am
I see Kayden Jackson has taken to Twitter tonight to apologise for his sending off and taking full responsibility for Town dropping three points. Can’t ask for more than that although to be fair it shouldn’t have happened.
1 point surely? We were never going to score in a million years, no way were we getting the win :mrgreen:

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by rossi » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:31 pm

mugen1 wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:24 pm
Charnwood wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:21 am
I see Kayden Jackson has taken to Twitter tonight to apologise for his sending off and taking full responsibility for Town dropping three points. Can’t ask for more than that although to be fair it shouldn’t have happened.
1 point surely? We were never going to score in a million years, no way were we getting the win :mrgreen:
I imagine he considered that had he not have been sent off he would have scored 2 or 3 times.
He is, of course, deluded - a game of football lasts 90 minutes, not thousands

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Magicmark » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:55 pm

rossi wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:52 am
Andym wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:15 pm
Magicmark wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:13 pm


Didn't look it to me,just clumsy, sky commentary made out He'd been butchered.
Yes. Typical strikers challenge. [bLooked bad but no real intent to harm[/b]. He’s just a player with pace and no real ability. The challenge was just an example of his lack of coordination really
I'm sorry, Andy, but once again I have to disagree with you. I am in no way trying to be confrontational with you, we obviously see many things in different ways.

Anyway, how do you know it was not intentional? You don't know, any more than I do. In fact the only person who really knows is Jackson himself.

I thought it was a horrible tackle, the type that I have seen result in broken legs in the past, and he fully deserved the red card.

He had a golden opportunity tonight, playing as the lone striker. Instead of taking it, he let himself his team and his manager down by his lack of professionalism and self control. He's a turd.
Now I've had a chance to see it in slow motion a few times it did look quite horrible, the player who brought him down spent most off the game falling over looking to get players booked & should of been carded himself,I would of sent him off to lol,anyway we didn't really miss Jackson,he's ineffective up front by himself.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by valleyroad » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:34 pm

hallamblue wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:47 am
I thought Sunderland we frankly very ordinary and with nothing particularly striking about them. I doubt they will be in that top six come the end of the season.

But the truly sad thing is, they have taken 6 points off us this season ( albeit against our 10 man teams), a fact which says more about where we now are as a Club, than them.
I agree they weren't anything special and Jackson getting sent off changed the whole game.
Still think they will be top 6 and wouldn't rule them out of top 2 !

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Andym » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:53 pm

valleyroad wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:34 pm
hallamblue wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:47 am
I thought Sunderland we frankly very ordinary and with nothing particularly striking about them. I doubt they will be in that top six come the end of the season.

But the truly sad thing is, they have taken 6 points off us this season ( albeit against our 10 man teams), a fact which says more about where we now are as a Club, than them.
I agree they weren't anything special and Jackson getting sent off changed the whole game.
Still think they will be top 6 and wouldn't rule them out of top 2 !
Yes, it's hard to predict, such a mediocre league. And we are mid table and dropping.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by saint jude » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:55 pm

Says something when trying to read player ratings on the EADT website last night and the damn thing crashed. Maybe the server had given up on us also.

Didn't see highlights in the end. One goal amid far from a stellar performance from either team sort of gave it a miss in the end. They've beaten us home and away now this season. Will they get promoted ? Don't give a rat's as* for it in all truth just trying to stay focused on what we get up to. (Or don't)

Any team hoping for a promotion has to depend on it's home form. Ours is now so shot to sh*t (and it's deeply regrettable after such a fine start) that you got to imagine the team has blown it once again. Years back (1970s) there'd be like 16 or 17 wins in the old First Division at Portman Road but the away form in those seasons did for us no higher than a third place finish.

Crewe up next is it. Guess it's an away game, not planning too far ahead and don't even know where they stand in the league or what form they got however it'll be a pivotal day for the manager. Guess he bought himself a little extra time last night what with suggested 'improved performance' and 'unfortunate to lose' coming from some areas but Lambert will be acutely aware of the (and his) situation now.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by marko69 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:21 pm

Ah well, the cabbage v The Sevco tonight......., no doubt humped......, and even though I am absolutely no where near the "Jack Ross Out" morons at the moment, (they really are tw@ts, usual suspects)......, I am glad he didn't get the Ipswich Town job. League One in England really was too early for Jack in his managerial career when at Sunderland. Waaaaaaay more grounds "to hide" here in Scotland when learning the trade. I do believe he will be a big name in the future though.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by Charnwood » Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:53 am

Your boys did quite well last night Marko holding Rangers to 0-1 although the game looked a little scrappy played on the sh*t of a pitch, is it normally that bad ? Morelos was lucky to be on the pitch after his early shocking stamping and this was certainly an injustice which would have been even worse had he not missed a much easier chance a few minutes later.

Five defeats in the last seven must feel like following two Ipswich Towns.

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Re: Ipswich Town vs Sunderland AFC Preview & Matchday Thread

Post by hallamblue » Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:58 pm

valleyroad wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:34 pm
hallamblue wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:47 am
I thought Sunderland we frankly very ordinary and with nothing particularly striking about them. I doubt they will be in that top six come the end of the season.

But the truly sad thing is, they have taken 6 points off us this season ( albeit against our 10 man teams), a fact which says more about where we now are as a Club, than them.
I agree they weren't anything special and Jackson getting sent off changed the whole game.
Still think they will be top 6 and wouldn't rule them out of top 2 !
yes , plonker Jackson really did stitch us up that night , the idiot ! I think if Sunderland can continue to play 10 man teams they might stand a chance of top six , lol ...but otherwise I'm really not convinced by at all. In fact I thought they were very ordinary ...which makes our plight even more hard to stomach tbh ….

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