Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

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hallamblue
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Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by hallamblue » Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:06 pm

I’m struggling past these tbh

KVY
Woolfie
Nsiala
Nydam
Downes
Dozzell
Nolan (purely coz he’s been injured)
Bishop
Dobra

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by nicscreamer » Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:54 pm

I think Cornell made a case for himself, with today’s performance. Norwood , maybe, if he stays fit and out of trouble... but that’s it really

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number 9
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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by number 9 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:18 am

hallamblue wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:06 pm
I’m struggling past these tbh

KVY yes
Woolfie no
Nsiala yes
Nydam yes
Downes yes
Dozzell yes
Nolan (purely coz he’s been injured) no
Bishop yes
Dobra yes

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by rossi » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:06 am

Cornell
KVY
Downes
Dozell
Nydam
Nsiala
Bishop
Dobra

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by Bluemike » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:35 am

rossi wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:06 am
Cornell
KVY
Downes
Dozell
Nydam
Nsiala
Bishop
Dobra
This is pretty much my list too, add in the kids Baggott & Ndaba.

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by bluejacko » Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:12 am

At least that list of players have the potential to react to a new coaching regime so despite theirs present attitude give them a chance.

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by Kerry Blue » Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:43 pm

I agree with those and Cornell as back up keeper so room for around a dozen incoming players, it won't be easy I only hope that Cook can get them in early and show them that we are a Team on the way up.

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by hallamblue » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:50 pm

What do you think of this list posted on twtd earlier today ?


Holy - Release
Cornell - Keep
KVY - Keep
Donacien - Release
Kenlock - Keep
Ward - Release
Woolfenden - Keep
Nsiala - Release
Chambers - Release
Wilson - Release
Ndaba - Loan out
Downes - Keep
Dozzell - Release
Nolan - Release
Bishop - Keep
Skuse - Release
Nydam - Keep
Huws - Release
McGavin - Loan out
El Mizouni - Loan out
Edwards - Release
Lankester - Loan out
Dobra - Keep
Sears - Release
Jackson - Release
Norwood - Release
Hawkins - Release
Drinan - Release

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by number 9 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:07 pm

hallamblue wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:50 pm
What do you think of this list posted on twtd earlier today ?


Holy - Release
Cornell - Keep
KVY - Keep
Donacien - Release
Kenlock - Keep
Ward - Release
Woolfenden - Release
Nsiala - Keep
Chambers - Release
Wilson - Release
Ndaba - Loan out
Downes - Keep
Dozzell - Keep
Nolan - Release
Bishop - Keep
Skuse - Release
Nydam - Keep
Huws - Release
McGavin - Loan out
El Mizouni - Loan out
Edwards - Release
Lankester - Loan out
Dobra - Keep
Sears - Release
Jackson - Release
Norwood - Release
Hawkins - Release
Drinan - Release

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by tangfastic » Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:45 pm

hallamblue wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:50 pm
What do you think of this list posted on twtd earlier today ?


Holy - Release
Cornell - Keep
KVY - Keep
Donacien - Release
Kenlock - Keep
Ward - Release
Woolfenden - Keep
Nsiala - Release
Chambers - Release
Wilson - Release
Ndaba - Loan out
Downes - Keep
Dozzell - Release
Nolan - Release
Bishop - Keep
Skuse - Release
Nydam - Keep
Huws - Release
McGavin - Loan out
El Mizouni - Loan out
Edwards - Release
Lankester - Loan out
Dobra - Keep
Sears - Release
Jackson - Release
Norwood - Release
Hawkins - Release
Drinan - Release
Agree with most.

Kenlock hasn’t been used by Cook. If he doesn’t fancy him - then let him go. This guy shouldn’t be kept at a club for so long as a backup.
I have a feeling Nolan might be kept on as Cook talked well about him. And he got injured at the right time.

Bish I’d release as he’s still a question mark as to his quality (doesn’t do enough consistently). Can’t keep on giving him the benefit of the doubt year after year. And he’s bound to break down injured. Get rid of the injury-prone ones.... Norwood, Bish and cross our fingers over KVY.
I’d get rid of all Lankester, McGavin and El Mizouni. We need to be ruthless and I don’t think they’re good enough for the first team, but too good for the 23’s. A loan move would more than likely be a miss than a hit.... and then it’s a wasted year.

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by Bluemike » Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:16 pm

There is not a cat in hells chance I would keep Woolfenden, he's woeful

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by saint jude » Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:17 pm

I'd feel inclined to let the entire playing roster leave they're so ineffective but it doesn't work like that. The main 'attackers' we got, Jackson, Sears, Norwood for example seem to me completely dead-weight and require offloading soon as able. There is something fundamentally wrong in a team going some two months without a goal in the third league of football. New additions even on loan such as Parrott can remain on board but others up front as listed can quite rightly push off and not return.

Holy, I thought would be a great addition given his size and expected domination of his area but has disappointed since coming in. The defense and midfield are something of a gray area as don't get to see their involvement like some others but Vincent-Young would seem to be held in regard and Nsiala can or should be retained. Chambers at one time a cult figure but read often enough now something of a liability, therefore place him on the outgoing list.

Of course the thoughts and opinions won't resonate with everyone but one part, perhaps the most pivotal on a club message board, being individuality.

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by hallamblue » Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:27 pm

It’s hard to know if it’s a midfield problem in lack of creativity and solid holding play to support that, or just ineffective strikers 🤷‍♀️ ....defence is pretty brittle too tbh . Our current CB pairing just don’t work as a partnership and an6 ball dropped in between them is left by one , for the other to deal,with. Mick Mills has been moaning about that all season.


Essentially, we haven’t got a spine to the side , have we!
Last edited by hallamblue on Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by Dubai Blue » Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:31 am

Personally I don't think it makes much sense to speculate in this way. PC has a system in mind and he need certain characteristics for the players who are to take up these roles. Perhaps this is where our analysis should be? I can't say for example whether Jackson will fit in his new system or whether Bishop might be one of his 'flair players' in MF or he needs a workhorse there.

All I will say is that at least in defence we have had some decent performances out of Nsiala, Wilson, KVY & Kenlock so surely they will get a stay of execution if PC thinks their heads are in the right place.

I think there will be players who have underperformed but that PC might feel that he can work with and coach through. Nolan would maybe fit in that bracket.

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by hallamblue » Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:53 am

That’s a good point DB. As we know managers often revisit their former clubs to try and get players they trust.

Now I don’t know the players that worked well under Cook at Wigan when his team were going well before administration etc . Of how long ago that was ( meaning) are those players now too old, or unattainable ? But if anyone knows the players he had under him at that time , would / could they still do a job for him now for next seasons promotion push ?

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by Charnwood » Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:35 am

This is our list of players out of contract on or before 30 June. I would have thought any of these Paul Cook really wants to keep would have already been offered a new deal, so maybe they are all on their way to pastures new.

Alan Judge
Gwion Edwards
Teddy Bishop
Jayden Jackson
Stephen Ward
Luke Chambers
Janoi Donacien
Toto Nsiala
Cole Skuse
Freddie Sears
Emyr Huws
James Wilson
Aaron Drinan
Harry Wright.

Loan Deals ending

Troy Parrott
Keenan Bennetts
Luke Matheson
Luke Thomas
Josh Harrop
Mark McGuiness

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by Charnwood » Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:42 am

Players with contracts beyond 2021;

2022

Flynn Downes
Jon Nolan
Tomas Holy
Myles Kenlock
David Cornell
Jack Lankester
Oliver Hawkins
James Norwood

2023

Kane Vincent-Young
Armando Dobra

2024

Andre Dozzell
Luke Woolfenden

Unless another club comes in for these players it’s unlikely they will be going anywhere.

Unsure of contractual status of El Mizouni, McGavin & Ndaba etc.

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by Dubai Blue » Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:43 am

Charnwood, I know it's just a technical issue now but as long as the playoffs are in reach nobody is going to sign a contract right now. There would need to be certainty on which division we are going to play in next season :D :D :D

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by Charnwood » Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:53 am

Dubai Blue wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:43 am
Charnwood, I know it's just a technical issue now but as long as the playoffs are in reach nobody is going to sign a contract right now. There would need to be certainty on which division we are going to play in next season :D :D :D

Apologies DB, I’d wrongly assumed we would be staying in League 1. 😉

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by Dubai Blue » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:56 am

Hehehe yep I think it's a 99% safe assumption. But agents for sure would be waiting for the 100% safe moment before advising players to put pen to paper on any offered contract. Anyway I think PC said as much not long after he joined, that there would be no contracts offered until the season is out of the way.

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by AzzurroMark » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:59 am

Charnwood wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:42 am
Players with contracts beyond 2021;

2022

Flynn Downes
Jon Nolan
Tomas Holy
Myles Kenlock
David Cornell
Jack Lankester
Oliver Hawkins
James Norwood

2023

Kane Vincent-Young
Armando Dobra

2024

Andre Dozzell
Luke Woolfenden

Unless another club comes in for these players it’s unlikely they will be going anywhere.

Unsure of contractual status of El Mizouni, McGavin & Ndaba etc.
With most of these being contracted beyond this season, i think the majority of them could be worked with and under PC's regime and a new goalkeeping coach could be improved. Of course we do need a reliable goalkeeper to hold down the No1 spot.Lankester is questionable, as is Hawkins goal scoring (or lack of) prowess. I know others have questioned Woolfie, but we have previously seen something promising in him and paired with the right defensive partner, i still (on his day) rate him higher than any of our other permanent CB's when also taking age and potential into consideration.

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by nicscreamer » Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:33 am

If, as seems to be the case, the majority of the squad have downed tools now (Edwards being the most blatant about it), who is actually still playing for Cook / ITFC??

I think Cornell seemed to be putting 100% in on Saturday, Downes maybe... But who else has Cook managed to bring with him on the journey? If he wants to keep some of the players , he needs to make sure they have bought into his philosophy... Can we say for certain ANY of them have?

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by Bluemike » Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:10 pm

I dont think Bishop, Nsiala or Dozzell have downed tools, thats about it for me.

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by nicscreamer » Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:17 pm

But Toto isnt even getting a look in.... He must be on his way. Which, despite we happily calling him a donkey last season, would be a shame. As i think he would be an ok squad player next year.

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by rossi » Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:19 pm

Charnwood wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:35 am
This is our list of players out of contract on or before 30 June. I would have thought any of these Paul Cook really wants to keep would have already been offered a new deal, so maybe they are all on their way to pastures new.

Alan Judge
Gwion Edwards
Teddy Bishop
Jayden Jackson
Stephen Ward
Luke Chambers
Janoi Donacien
Toto Nsiala
Cole Skuse
Freddie Sears
Emyr Huws
James Wilson
Aaron Drinan
Harry Wright.

Loan Deals ending

Troy Parrott
Keenan Bennetts
Luke Matheson
Luke Thomas
Josh Harrop
Mark McGuiness
so it could well be that the plan is not to renew anyone out of contract and not to renew loanees.
That would make perfect sense to me.

Shame about some of those who are not out of contract, but as I'm sure that nobody else would want any of them it would seem we're stuck with them.

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by Charnwood » Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:28 pm

rossi wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:19 pm
Charnwood wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:35 am
This is our list of players out of contract on or before 30 June. I would have thought any of these Paul Cook really wants to keep would have already been offered a new deal, so maybe they are all on their way to pastures new.

Alan Judge
Gwion Edwards
Teddy Bishop
Jayden Jackson
Stephen Ward
Luke Chambers
Janoi Donacien
Toto Nsiala
Cole Skuse
Freddie Sears
Emyr Huws
James Wilson
Aaron Drinan
Harry Wright.

Loan Deals ending

Troy Parrott
Keenan Bennetts
Luke Matheson
Luke Thomas
Josh Harrop
Mark McGuiness
so it could well be that the plan is not to renew anyone out of contract and not to renew loanees.
That would make perfect sense to me.

Shame about some of those who are not out of contract, but as I'm sure that nobody else would want any of them it would seem we're stuck with them.

I agree with that too Rossi, it makes absolute perfect sense as a starting point but will leave a number of gaps to fill. Somebody is going to be a busy boy over the summer. I’m not sure what the ideal number of professionals is for a Club our size but I’d have thought 30 would be an absolute maximum maybe less. Average squad size in League One is 27 with Sunderland, Charlton and Lincoln all managing with squads of just 24. Any thoughts anyone ?

This would mean if we kept the 12 in contract and let the rest go we’d need at least 12 new signings, exciting times ahead for sure.

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by Dubai Blue » Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:54 pm

nicscreamer wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:17 pm
But Toto isnt even getting a look in.... He must be on his way. Which, despite we happily calling him a donkey last season, would be a shame. As i think he would be an ok squad player next year.
Maybe Toto isn't getting a look in because PC has already seen enough of him - one way or the other. He seems to be playing everyone he can. What is it 27 players since he joined?

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by AzzurroMark » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:16 pm

Dubai Blue wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:54 pm
What is it 27 players since he joined?
That figure shows that he has given lots of players the chance to shine and stake a claim to be part of the PC revolution. Sadly a high percentage of those have failed to step up to the mark.

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by tangfastic » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:38 pm

Dubai Blue wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:31 am
Personally I don't think it makes much sense to speculate in this way. PC has a system in mind and he need certain characteristics for the players who are to take up these roles. Perhaps this is where our analysis should be? I can't say for example whether Jackson will fit in his new system or whether Bishop might be one of his 'flair players' in MF or he needs a workhorse there.

All I will say is that at least in defence we have had some decent performances out of Nsiala, Wilson, KVY & Kenlock so surely they will get a stay of execution if PC thinks their heads are in the right place.

I think there will be players who have underperformed but that PC might feel that he can work with and coach through. Nolan would maybe fit in that bracket.
Agree with that, DB.
Im going with the logic that Cook is sh*t/not so good in assembling a decent team out of a random bunch of players, but is (hopefully) very good at assembling a group of players who fit into his system. Hence, if a player doesn’t fit his system - why keep him? No point in keeping players who can’t adjust to a certain system, however good they might be. I’m fed up seeing players playing out of position.

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Re: Which senior players do you think Paul Cook will keep?

Post by tangfastic » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:51 pm

Charnwood wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:28 pm
rossi wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:19 pm
Charnwood wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:35 am
This is our list of players out of contract on or before 30 June. I would have thought any of these Paul Cook really wants to keep would have already been offered a new deal, so maybe they are all on their way to pastures new.

Alan Judge
Gwion Edwards
Teddy Bishop
Jayden Jackson
Stephen Ward
Luke Chambers
Janoi Donacien
Toto Nsiala
Cole Skuse
Freddie Sears
Emyr Huws
James Wilson
Aaron Drinan
Harry Wright.

Loan Deals ending

Troy Parrott
Keenan Bennetts
Luke Matheson
Luke Thomas
Josh Harrop
Mark McGuiness
so it could well be that the plan is not to renew anyone out of contract and not to renew loanees.
That would make perfect sense to me.

Shame about some of those who are not out of contract, but as I'm sure that nobody else would want any of them it would seem we're stuck with them.

I agree with that too Rossi, it makes absolute perfect sense as a starting point but will leave a number of gaps to fill. Somebody is going to be a busy boy over the summer. I’m not sure what the ideal number of professionals is for a Club our size but I’d have thought 30 would be an absolute maximum maybe less. Average squad size in League One is 27 with Sunderland, Charlton and Lincoln all managing with squads of just 24. Any thoughts anyone ?

This would mean if we kept the 12 in contract and let the rest go we’d need at least 12 new signings, exciting times ahead for sure.
At the moment, squad sizes will be capped to 20. That’s for over 21’s I believe. There’s talk that that might change as clubs argue that will increase injuries. But if it stays, we’ll have to choose wisely which senior players are in the squad of 20. Would you want a Norwood or a Bishop who could take up a squad place and be injured half the time?

You’d probably want to bulk out the squad with under 21 loanees or youth players.

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