Cook

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shabba
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Re: Cook

Post by shabba » Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:17 pm

Charnwood wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:13 pm
The only positives so far are that one, that we know we have a decisive Board of Directors, and two, we know that the clubs main objective is to secure promotion this season not next. For me the timing came as a bit of a shock although not a complete surprise as recent performances have been completely unacceptable, however personally I blame the players more than the manager and I feel a tinge of sadness for Paul Cook who I think is a decent bloke. He’s played his preferred system before and been successful with it at this level, professional footballers should be able to play the system the manager wants and it shouldn't be difficult to follow instructions. We hit six goals past Doncaster Rovers and four past Portsmouth and Wycombe using it so the players know it can work, I think Paul Cook lost his job because a few key players lost form at the wrong time or were injured , Bonne & Burns immediately come to mind. Knowing now that this Board are trigger happy, each Manager appointed could be on borrowed time if success doesn’t come quickly, that will suit some journeymen managers who are happy bagging compensation but not others looking to further their career. John McGreal/Kieron Dyer doesn’t overly excite me but I can only hope. Sadly we still seem to be a football club in decline and this will continue until we get lucky finding the right manager to reverse what has been a long slow downward decline since Jim Magilton left in April 2009. Since then Mick McCarthy is the only manager who’s teams have won more games than they lost. That’s a pretty shocking managerial record.
Spot on.

hallamblue
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Re: Cook

Post by hallamblue » Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:37 pm

Yip , I’d say that’s pretty much how I see it too

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AzzurroMark
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Re: Cook

Post by AzzurroMark » Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:41 pm

Charnwood wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:13 pm
The only positives so far are that one, that we know we have a decisive Board of Directors, and two, we know that the clubs main objective is to secure promotion this season not next. For me the timing came as a bit of a shock although not a complete surprise as recent performances have been completely unacceptable, however personally I blame the players more than the manager and I feel a tinge of sadness for Paul Cook who I think is a decent bloke. He’s played his preferred system before and been successful with it at this level, professional footballers should be able to play the system the manager wants and it shouldn't be difficult to follow instructions. We hit six goals past Doncaster Rovers and four past Portsmouth and Wycombe using it so the players know it can work, I think Paul Cook lost his job because a few key players lost form at the wrong time or were injured , Bonne & Burns immediately come to mind. Knowing now that this Board are trigger happy, each Manager appointed could be on borrowed time if success doesn’t come quickly, that will suit some journeymen managers who are happy bagging compensation but not others looking to further their career. John McGreal/Kieron Dyer doesn’t overly excite me but I can only hope. Sadly we still seem to be a football club in decline and this will continue until we get lucky finding the right manager to reverse what has been a long slow downward decline since Jim Magilton left in April 2009. Since then Mick McCarthy is the only manager who’s teams have won more games than they lost. That’s a pretty shocking managerial record.
Likewise, totally in agreement ^^^

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Re: Cook

Post by hallamblue » Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:44 pm

:lol: Don’t you copy me lol

JamessB
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Re: Cook

Post by JamessB » Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:09 pm

Personally I think the highlights such as the results against Doncaster, Portsmouth and Wycombe are seriously outweighed by the low points with too many lacklustre defeats against what should be considered inferior opposition.

I've also lost count of how many times we've let slip a two goal lead this season. It's a shame it didn't work out for PC but the bottom line is results and performances just haven't been good enough given the investment and changes made to the squad and more recently things have taken a turn for the worse.

Let's just hope John McGreal can get the teams confidence back up and that they put in a decent performance tomorrow night.

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Re: Cook

Post by hallamblue » Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:18 pm

It just seems like bloody Groundhog Day at this Club again ….. on and on it goes . The only thing that appears constant is our decline.

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Shed on tour
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Re: Cook

Post by Shed on tour » Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:55 pm

hallamblue wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:18 pm
It just seems like bloody Groundhog Day at this Club again ….. on and on it goes . The only thing that appears constant is our decline.
Hallam
Look on the bright side at least we haven’t had to worry about our managers being poached by other clubs! :lol:

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Re: Cook

Post by Bluemike » Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:34 pm

The only thing I would say is maybe we beat Doncaster, Wycombe and Portsmouth because 4-2-3-1 was the correct formation needed.

Maybe we didn't beat Newport, Morecambe, Burton, Cheltenham, Wimbledon, Bolton, Accrington, Oldham, West Ham Kids, Arsenal Kids and Barrow because we are one dimensional and get sussed out.

The players can shoulder some blame sure but Cook carries most of it for me, it was he who ballsed it up at Cambridge, the players got us 2-0 up until his substitutions f*cked it up, it was Cook not the players who decided to play a LB who had been injured for weeks at RB against Plymouth while Celina sat on the bench, it was Cook who dropped Chaplin without any explanation to the player while he was bang in form and scoring goals, I think Cook can blame himself for the dire run of results and failing performances tbh.

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Re: Cook

Post by hallamblue » Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:47 pm

Shed on tour wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:55 pm
hallamblue wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:18 pm
It just seems like bloody Groundhog Day at this Club again ….. on and on it goes . The only thing that appears constant is our decline.
Hallam
Look on the bright side at least we haven’t had to worry about our managers being poached by other clubs! :lol:
Isn’t that the truth lol !!

Ashton has stated there are already a “ significant number of applications “, so despite being mid table in the third tier of English football, we are still regarded as one helluva catch to work for . I’m lifted by that tbh .

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Re: Cook

Post by hallamblue » Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:53 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:34 pm
The only thing I would say is maybe we beat Doncaster, Wycombe and Portsmouth because 4-2-3-1 was the correct formation needed.

Maybe we didn't beat Newport, Morecambe, Burton, Cheltenham, Wimbledon, Bolton, Accrington, Oldham, West Ham Kids, Arsenal Kids and Barrow because we are one dimensional and get sussed out.

The players can shoulder some blame sure but Cook carries most of it for me, it was he who ballsed it up at Cambridge, the players got us 2-0 up until his substitutions f*cked it up, it was Cook not the players who decided to play a LB who had been injured for weeks at RB against Plymouth while Celina sat on the bench, it was Cook who dropped Chaplin without any explanation to the player while he was bang in form and scoring goals, I think Cook can blame himself for the dire run of results and failing performances tbh.

Of those games in which we didn’t win using that formation …. How many of them are home games?

The reason I ask is because be always maintained we would struggle at home this season , simply because teams will come to PR and sit back - and so by and large they have . Would having 2 up front make any difference ? I’m not so sure tbh . It’s very difficult to break teams down who are hell bent on defending deep and hoping to catch you on the break . Interestingly this was the approach Sunderland took against us at their place. We should have won but missed the opportunities in that first half and then hit hit with that sucker punch

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Re: Cook

Post by Charnwood » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:50 pm

hallamblue wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:53 pm
Bluemike wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:34 pm
The only thing I would say is maybe we beat Doncaster, Wycombe and Portsmouth because 4-2-3-1 was the correct formation needed.

Maybe we didn't beat Newport, Morecambe, Burton, Cheltenham, Wimbledon, Bolton, Accrington, Oldham, West Ham Kids, Arsenal Kids and Barrow because we are one dimensional and get sussed out.

The players can shoulder some blame sure but Cook carries most of it for me, it was he who ballsed it up at Cambridge, the players got us 2-0 up until his substitutions f*cked it up, it was Cook not the players who decided to play a LB who had been injured for weeks at RB against Plymouth while Celina sat on the bench, it was Cook who dropped Chaplin without any explanation to the player while he was bang in form and scoring goals, I think Cook can blame himself for the dire run of results and failing performances tbh.


Of those games in which we didn’t win using that formation …. How many of them are home games?

The reason I ask is because be always maintained we would struggle at home this season , simply because teams will come to PR and sit back - and so by and large they have . Would having 2 up front make any difference ? I’m not so sure tbh . It’s very difficult to break teams down who are hell bent on defending deep and hoping to catch you on the break . Interestingly this was the approach Sunderland took against us at their place. We should have won but missed the opportunities in that first half and then hit hit with that sucker punch

I think you’re absolutely spot on Liz. Some on here are so fixated on formations and so readily blame it for where we find ourselves, whereas in reality I think it has more to do with players lack of desire than how they are set up. I don’t think some of our players have any pride in their shirt or their club but simply turn up for the money and much of the blame for that is PC bringing in far too many players over too short a period. The fact is the longer you play for a club the more important the club becomes to you, and as it becomes a bigger part of your life, success means so much more and you’re prepared to give more. Unfortunately we don’t have any of these “blueblood” players in the team, the closest we have is Macauley Bonne because he was born in Ipswich, but unfortunately his form is currently shot. The biggest mistake I think PC made was similar to PL in not finding his preferred starting X1 quickly enough, had he done this I think partnerships would have been formed quicker and the players would have gelled quicker as a team. For me 4,2,3,1 is the most attacking exciting formation available to managers as long as they have the right players to fill the three slots behind the front man. I think we have those players at Portman which makes it even more disappointing that PC couldn’t make it happen.

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Re: Cook

Post by Bluemike » Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:51 am

So who signed those players that lack desire and motivation?

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Re: Cook

Post by Shed on tour » Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:57 am

Bluemike wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:51 am
So who signed those players that lack desire and motivation?
Exactly. Cook said when he came in that he could not trust the majority of players in the squad at that time. If it is a case that the current squad have let him down through lack of desire and motivation then surely questions have to be asked about his recruitment in the last window.

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Re: Cook

Post by Charnwood » Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:43 am

Bluemike wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:51 am
So who signed those players that lack desire and motivation?

That’s exactly my point Mike, the problem not being the 4,3,2,1 system that you and others keep on about but the players themselves. I know that was PC’s problem too but that on its own that wasn’t a sackable offence. In my opinion we brought in too many players too quickly and I suspect Ashton was as much to blame for that as PC. I also suspect the lack of motivation and commitment from some of the players has been a consequence of lack of game time especially for those who signed thinking they would play a regular part in a promotion campaign that would take us back to the Championship. With the number of new players brought in it was always going to be impossible for PC to keep them all highly motivated.

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Re: Cook

Post by Bluemike » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:18 am

I actually don't have an issue with the formation at times Andy, it just worried me the refusal to change it and from what I am understanding he was never gonna sway from that, at the start it was a disaster as bedded new players, then it actually looked decent for a time but I think its clear we have been sussed which is when we need to have that plan B. Other things worried me about Cookie too but not worth going into now as he's gone.

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Re: Cook

Post by Steve and Jo » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:44 am

For me its not the system at all. Sure, reluctance to alter formations, tactics during games were partly an issue. It's not the lack of goals scored was the problem, its the amount we let in.

The defensive side was a nightmare. During the fans meeting other week he was asked a question about his defensive coaching and amount of goals we let in and who is our defensive coach. His answer was "obviously we have no coaching", or words like that obviously joking then said Franny Jeffers was the defence coach. His reasoning was Franny being an ex forward knows what forwards think. Excuse me!! Sorry that's nonsense. For me you have ex defenders coaching defence as you do ex forwards coaching the attackers.

His background coaching staff were filled with recently retired players, that can't help

Like most I really wanted Paul to succeed, he seems a real good honest guy and he was passionate but the games we taken lead in to only squander. The mistakes players were making time and time again, I still don't think he knew his best team.

Wish Paul the very best, at least in the main the football was far more entertaining but we need to get out of this league and just couldn't see this under Paul's management, really wish that wasn't the case. Reluctantly I feel the board were right in letting him go

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Re: Cook

Post by Bluemike » Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:17 pm

I don't feel the need to keep justifying the decision to sack him as the forum police will be on it but that defence coaching thing is just another example of something being far from right.

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Re: Cook

Post by hallamblue » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:17 pm

This is a recent post by Phil Ham, who generally seems to have a finger on the Town pulse
( and certainly has contacts within the Club)

Phil Ham:
“ I'd expect a head coach rather than a traditional manager. Michael Appleton was the man I heard the owners wanted prior to the takeover and the names I subsequently heard that would be potnetial targets were Liam Manning and Ryan Lowe”.

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Re: Cook

Post by Shed on tour » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:28 pm

I wish PC all the best for the future but for whatever reason it was obvious that things weren’t working out and in fact seemed to be getting worse. Therefore, imo the board have made the right decision in acting now and it is time to move on.

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Re: Cook

Post by Bluemike » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:03 pm

hallamblue wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:17 pm
This is a recent post by Phil Ham, who generally seems to have a finger on the Town pulse
( and certainly has contacts within the Club)

Phil Ham:
“ I'd expect a head coach rather than a traditional manager. Michael Appleton was the man I heard the owners wanted prior to the takeover and the names I subsequently heard that would be potnetial targets were Liam Manning and Ryan Lowe”.
Appleton? Really, not sure I'm jumping for joy with that either. For all my doubts regarding Cook I see Appleton as no better.

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Re: Cook

Post by hallamblue » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:44 pm

Yes he said Appleton was initially mentioned prior to take over, but he went on to say Liam Manning ( MKDons) , and Ryan Lowe would be potential targets …. I think I saw somewhere that Lowe has gone to Preston….

Interesting times, but as Ashton states…we have to get this appointment right.

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AzzurroMark
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Re: Cook

Post by AzzurroMark » Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:55 pm

Hmm, make of PC's comments what you will!

Does this us give us more of insight?

www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/paul- ... ng-8601180

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Re: Cook

Post by BlueBalls » Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:08 pm

AzzurroMark wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:55 pm
Hmm, make of PC's comments what you will!

Does this us give us more of insight?

www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/paul- ... ng-8601180
His verbal diarrhoea continues.

The only bit that makes sense and speaks for itself is "Cook left Town having won just 13 of his 44 matches in charge".

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Re: Cook

Post by Shed on tour » Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:24 pm

AzzurroMark wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:55 pm
Hmm, make of PC's comments what you will!

Does this us give us more of insight?

www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/paul- ... ng-8601180
For me I think it shows that PC was never going to be a fit under the new ownership. Imo PC is a old school manager and was going to find it difficult to work with the way the club was looking to go forward. He certainly didn’t help himself with his stubbornness to stick with one formation and the people he brought in on the coaching side were questionable to say the least.
Despite what was said by the owners when they first took over, I have serious doubts if he would have been their first choice and if that was the case then perhaps it would have been better to have made the decision at the end of last season to get rid. Anyhow, time to let things go and move on.

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Re: Cook

Post by Shed on tour » Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:25 pm

BlueBalls wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:08 pm
AzzurroMark wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:55 pm
Hmm, make of PC's comments what you will!

Does this us give us more of insight?

www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/paul- ... ng-8601180
His verbal diarrhoea continues.

The only bit that makes sense and speaks for itself is "Cook left Town having won just 13 of his 44 matches in charge".
Apparently the games last season don’t count!

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Re: Cook

Post by number 9 » Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:45 pm

One could argue almost every manager should be given more time before being sacked, but the reality is it's a results business. I think it would be in Mr Cook's best interest to just stay quiet and move on with life. Losing to Barrow just isn't good enough for ITFC.

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Re: Cook

Post by hallamblue » Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:53 pm

Looks to me like Ashton brought in his own “ performance team”, ( to fit with and operate his performance data tool kit that he uses) and appears not to have even consulted (or even discussed it) with the manager and his coaches. I think this would undermine the manager, and I’m not surprised it caused friction. Maybe this is what Norwood was alluding too when he said “ he ( Cook) had his hands tied,” ( regarding picking the player?).

Maybe this is the new model of managing / running football clubs these days. It may even explain why no established / experienced manager got the job, and why Cook was unceremoniously dumped after 20 games with the new squad?

Ashton has head hunted McKenna, an up an coming coach. He has no managerial experience, and s9me might argue ,is easier to “micro manage” than a more experienced ,old school manager and his backroom staff.


Yes many will point to the poor start Cook had this season. But that’s hardly surprising given the squad overhaul. I personally don’t include last season. Every supporter to a man ( or woman), agreed that squad needed getting rid of. They’d achieved nothing in three years, and once these players knew the6 were on borrowed time, the6 downed tools on Cook and his staff. No surprise there.


Cooks interview doesn’t surprise me , and I feel he has been measured in his comments towards the hierarchy at the Club. Whether you feel Cook was right for the job ( his previous record suggests he was worth a shot at the very least), and O’ Leary states in his very first interview that Cook was top of their list too . But to dump h8m after 20 games was in my view, instigated b6 Ashton and rubber stamped by our overseas owners who will rely on Ashton’s opinions.

I remain cautious of Ashton I’m afraid. He now has a coach in place that potentially he can “ manage”, but on the other side of the coin, it can also be argued that being a rookie manager, he’ll slot into Ashton’s infrastructure. So I repeat my concerns, what is the limit of Ashton’s control as CEO? Who runs this team, Ashton or McKenna? But I’ll put money on it, that nothing will ever stick to Ashton if the brown stuff hits the fan.

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Re: Cook

Post by JamessB » Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:25 pm

It's very easy to misinterpret things that have been said in interviews but one line that caught my eye was in the recent Norwood interview on the official ITFC site, his last line was 'It's important to have a flexible approach and I'm enjoying it' - I saw this as a bit of a dig at the previous management and in all honesty can't really disagree, many of us felt PC was far too rigid with his tactics and formations, if we'd shown the same fight and organisation as we did against Wycombe since from the start of the season we definitely wouldn't have thrown away so many leads!

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Re: Cook

Post by hallamblue » Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:58 pm

He was rigid with his formations there’s no doubt about that . But he was in his previous jobs too. Didn’t do too bad at Wigan, Pompey or chesterfield though did he. I’d also say that must managers stick to their preferred formations ( since this question came up I went and looked st what other managers did , and it’s amazing how many use the same formation as Cook!) ….

Norwood also took to twitter after Cook was sacked and said …” we got on well, he’s a great guy, but his hands were tied ….” Etc . Norwood didn’t have to say that and would have nothing to gain by saying that. So as you say really it’s all down to interpretation isn’t it . One thing for sure … we will never ever know what really went on lol….

We are in a new era and we shall see how it pans out .

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Re: Cook

Post by Bluemike » Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:29 pm

He needs to keep quiet and keep his dignity, bloody shame his performances and results didn't do the talking. Jog on.

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