Our next manager

Here you can chat about everything and anything related to ITFC and other football issues. This forum also hosts the now Internationally famous TB.com ITFC match previews which contain insightful pre-match thoughts, previous highlights, news links relating to Town, form guides and other bits and pieces. Feel free to discuss meet ups/travel plans in here as well.

Moderators: marko69, Bluemike, Charnwood

Locked
tangfastic
Posts: 4182
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:52 am

Re: Our next manager

Post by tangfastic » Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:29 pm

Based on his CV, why would McGreal be a better candidate than the others? He was an out of work L2 manager until less than 2 weeks ago.
We got a better second half performance against Wigan, but apart from that, nothing had improved. Don’t understand this “he knows the club” thing. He played here 20 years ago and only became part of the club a couple of days before Cook got fired.

Can’t see a bunch of US investors throwing lots of money towards a big project and then giving the reigns towards someone who was looking for a L2 manager’s job a couple of weeks back.

So we’re sticking our noses up at so-called underwhelming candidates who are probably more than qualified for a third tier club and then we want to give the job to an under-qualified manager just because he’s an ex-player. Sorry, can’t see the logic.

By all accounts, they’re still doing interviews and we probably don’t know who’s been interviewed.

valleyroad
Posts: 334
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:54 pm

Re: Our next manager

Post by valleyroad » Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:33 pm

tangfastic wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:29 pm
Based on his CV, why would McGreal be a better candidate than the others? He was an out of work L2 manager until less than 2 weeks ago.
We got a better second half performance against Wigan, but apart from that, nothing had improved. Don’t understand this “he knows the club” thing. He played here 20 years ago and only became part of the club a couple of days before Cook got fired.

Can’t see a bunch of US investors throwing lots of money towards a big project and then giving the reigns towards someone who was looking for a L2 manager’s job a couple of weeks back.

So we’re sticking our noses up at so-called underwhelming candidates who are probably more than qualified for a third tier club and then we want to give the job to an under-qualified manager just because he’s an ex-player. Sorry, can’t see the logic.

By all accounts, they’re still doing interviews and we probably don’t know who’s been interviewed.
Exactly, really makes sense to just wait and see who is announced and then give them 100% backing.

hallamblue
Posts: 27241
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:30 pm
Location: Ipswich Town F.C.

Re: Our next manager

Post by hallamblue » Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:24 pm

tangfastic wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:29 pm
Based on his CV, why would McGreal be a better candidate than the others? He was an out of work L2 manager until less than 2 weeks ago.
We got a better second half performance against Wigan, but apart from that, nothing had improved. Don’t understand this “he knows the club” thing. He played here 20 years ago and only became part of the club a couple of days before Cook got fired.

Can’t see a bunch of US investors throwing lots of money towards a big project and then giving the reigns towards someone who was looking for a L2 manager’s job a couple of weeks back.

So we’re sticking our noses up at so-called underwhelming candidates who are probably more than qualified for a third tier club and then we want to give the job to an under-qualified manager just because he’s an ex-player. Sorry, can’t see the logic.

By all accounts, they’re still doing interviews and we probably don’t know who’s been interviewed.
I said he wouldn’t be any “worse” which is different , and that he knows the club , and what’s wanted .

My understanding is he’d turned down 2 previous job offers in the last 12 months .

Tell me honestly , of the names linked with this club that are interested , are you happy? Because I’m not ….

But as has been suggested , it’s a case of wait and see … then moan ! :lol: but fwiw I will back whoever gets the job .

User avatar
Bluemike
Global Moderator
Posts: 25025
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: Ipswich

Re: Our next manager

Post by Bluemike » Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:19 pm

We should break the bamk for Farke, been there, done it, plays attractive football

User avatar
barmy billy
Posts: 2783
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:19 pm
Location: Wherever I rest my head

Re: Our next manager

Post by barmy billy » Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:34 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:19 pm
We should break the bamk for Farke, been there, done it, plays attractive football
He certainly stands head & shoulders above the other names bandied about so far.

Are you on the mend, Mike?

osborne77
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: Bury

Re: Our next manager

Post by osborne77 » Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:58 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:19 pm
We should break the bamk for Farke, been there, done it, plays attractive football
Do you really think we could tempt someone of his calibre? Would be over the moon if we could. That would really be a statement of intent by the owners. Bit optimistic probably.

User avatar
Bluemike
Global Moderator
Posts: 25025
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: Ipswich

Re: Our next manager

Post by Bluemike » Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:29 pm

barmy billy wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:34 pm
Bluemike wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:19 pm
We should break the bamk for Farke, been there, done it, plays attractive football
He certainly stands head & shoulders above the other names bandied about so far.

Are you on the mend, Mike?
They are really struggling to get my blood pressure down atm which is sky high, I've had a heart scan today and other tests so its still no change atm. Thank you for asking

User avatar
Charnwood
Global Moderator
Posts: 14488
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:25 pm
Location: Moraira, Spain.

Re: Our next manager

Post by Charnwood » Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:44 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:29 pm
barmy billy wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:34 pm
Bluemike wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:19 pm
We should break the bamk for Farke, been there, done it, plays attractive football
He certainly stands head & shoulders above the other names bandied about so far.

Are you on the mend, Mike?
They are really struggling to get my blood pressure down atm which is sky high, I've had a heart scan today and other tests so its still no change atm. Thank you for asking

Maybe Town can bring your blood pressure down Mike, how about a comfortable win at Barrow tomorrow night, appoint Daniel Farke as our new manager on Friday and stuff Sunderland 4-0 on Saturday. Would that help 👍

User avatar
ashfordblue
Posts: 2557
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 7:52 pm
Location: Ashford Kent / was Felixstowe

Re: Our next manager

Post by ashfordblue » Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:51 pm

Kerry Blue wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:16 pm
TWTD understands former Bristol City, Aberdeen and St Johnstone boss Derek McInnes is among those to have applied for the vacant manager’s job with Town.

McInnes is well-known to Blues CEO Mark Ashton having worked with him at the Robins between 2011 and 2013.

However, it's not believed the twice-capped former Scotland international midfielder is a leading candidate for the role.

50-year-old left Aberdeen in March after eight years at Pittodrie, during which time he saw the Dons to the 2013/14 Scottish League Cup.

While at St Johnstone Paisley-born McInnes saw the Saints to the 2008/09 Scottish First Division title.

Speculation that former Millwall and Cardiff boss Neil Harris has been offered the job is premature with interviews for the role continuing.

As previously reported, Harris has applied and we understand is under serious consideration for the position. The Orsett-born ex-striker is the bookies’ favourite at 3-1 on.

Harris’s former Lions and Bluebirds assistant David Livermore was at last Tuesday’s 2-0 defeat at Charlton to run the rule over the Town team.

Meanwhile, it’s believed veteran former Sheffield United, QPR, Cardiff and Middlesbrough boss Neil Warnock is not under consideration.

Interim manager John McGreal will take charge of the Blues at Barrow on Wednesday and may well be the man in the hotseat for Saturday’s home match against Sunderland.

Really KB is that why he's 2nd favourite at this moment in time, also Harris inherited Warnocks team that's why he was successful in his 1st-year 2nd season well we know what happened, so I'm just saying Warnock would be the safer bet with 8 promotions in his CV

User avatar
Bluemike
Global Moderator
Posts: 25025
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: Ipswich

Re: Our next manager

Post by Bluemike » Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:42 pm

Charnwood wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:44 pm
Bluemike wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:29 pm
barmy billy wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:34 pm


He certainly stands head & shoulders above the other names bandied about so far.

Are you on the mend, Mike?
They are really struggling to get my blood pressure down atm which is sky high, I've had a heart scan today and other tests so its still no change atm. Thank you for asking

Maybe Town can bring your blood pressure down Mike, how about a comfortable win at Barrow tomorrow night, appoint Daniel Farke as our new manager on Friday and stuff Sunderland 4-0 on Saturday. Would that help 👍
That would be a great pick me up Andy, for sure.

Kerry Blue
Posts: 1310
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:07 pm
Location: Listowel Co Kerry

Re: Our next manager

Post by Kerry Blue » Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:45 pm

ashfordblue wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:51 pm
Kerry Blue wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:16 pm
TWTD understands former Bristol City, Aberdeen and St Johnstone boss Derek McInnes is among those to have applied for the vacant manager’s job with Town.

McInnes is well-known to Blues CEO Mark Ashton having worked with him at the Robins between 2011 and 2013.

However, it's not believed the twice-capped former Scotland international midfielder is a leading candidate for the role.

50-year-old left Aberdeen in March after eight years at Pittodrie, during which time he saw the Dons to the 2013/14 Scottish League Cup.

While at St Johnstone Paisley-born McInnes saw the Saints to the 2008/09 Scottish First Division title.

Speculation that former Millwall and Cardiff boss Neil Harris has been offered the job is premature with interviews for the role continuing.

As previously reported, Harris has applied and we understand is under serious consideration for the position. The Orsett-born ex-striker is the bookies’ favourite at 3-1 on.

Harris’s former Lions and Bluebirds assistant David Livermore was at last Tuesday’s 2-0 defeat at Charlton to run the rule over the Town team.

Meanwhile, it’s believed veteran former Sheffield United, QPR, Cardiff and Middlesbrough boss Neil Warnock is not under consideration.

Interim manager John McGreal will take charge of the Blues at Barrow on Wednesday and may well be the man in the hotseat for Saturday’s home match against Sunderland.

Really KB is that why he's 2nd favourite at this moment in time, also Harris inherited Warnocks team that's why he was successful in his 1st-year 2nd season well we know what happened, so I'm just saying Warnock would be the safer bet with 8 promotions in his CV

Agree until the end of the season which gives Town time to get the right man in, Warnock is going to retire then so he says.

User avatar
Charnwood
Global Moderator
Posts: 14488
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:25 pm
Location: Moraira, Spain.

Re: Our next manager

Post by Charnwood » Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:50 am

I’d prefer appointing an interim manager over appointing the wrong manager. It maybe the right manager isn’t available, or someone we’ve offered to has turned us down or we’ve not been able to agree terms. I suspect something has gone wrong because football clubs simply don’t sack a manager without having a plan either short term or permanent. It is of course possible that the club are happy with John McGreal as our interim manager, if this is the case I would be very underwhelmed as it shows little ambition and would be very uninspiring for the players to have lost their man and see him replaced with an unemployed unsuccessful guy from League 2. What these players need is a significant appointment with a track record. On a par or preferably better than the one they hastily sacked.

I know it’s early days but I feel less comfortable as each day passes, and less inspired with each new name that gets added to the bookies odds table.

User avatar
ashfordblue
Posts: 2557
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 7:52 pm
Location: Ashford Kent / was Felixstowe

Re: Our next manager

Post by ashfordblue » Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:14 pm

I think now that Derek McInnes has applied he just might be the Ideal manager at our disposal, I would prefer Neil Warnock to steady the ship, BUT McInnes has had good qualities when at Aberdeen & St Mirren, certainly a better prospect than Neil Harris in my eyes, it is early days yet and at least we have John McGreal who at least knows how to make midgame changes like at Wigan, that Cook failed to do when required.

So let's see how we get on at Barrow tonight and against the Mackems at the weekend, then it might give us a better picture of where we are at form-wise.

tangfastic
Posts: 4182
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:52 am

Re: Our next manager

Post by tangfastic » Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:33 pm

Charnwood wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:50 am
I’d prefer appointing an interim manager over appointing the wrong manager. It maybe the right manager isn’t available, or someone we’ve offered to has turned us down or we’ve not been able to agree terms. I suspect something has gone wrong because football clubs simply don’t sack a manager without having a plan either short term or permanent. It is of course possible that the club are happy with John McGreal as our interim manager, if this is the case I would be very underwhelmed as it shows little ambition and would be very uninspiring for the players to have lost their man and see him replaced with an unemployed unsuccessful guy from League 2. What these players need is a significant appointment with a track record. On a par or preferably better than the one they hastily sacked.

I know it’s early days but I feel less comfortable as each day passes, and less inspired with each new name that gets added to the bookies odds table.
Exactly. Those players will be looking at McGreal and think why are we replacing someone that they know and had a track record at L1 and Championship level with someone who’s just done a solid job at L2 level. If you take away McGgreal’s association with Town - why should he be a better fit? He might know Town, but that was twenty years ago and he knows Col U better as he was there for 11 years. Yet, he wasn’t good enough for a L2 side and they got rid.

The sacking of Cook will be justified if they make a good appointment. Maybe this is the delay in that they are being ambitious and trying to lure a manager away from a club which won’t be easy. Or trying to convince a biggish-name out of work manager to drop to L2. But this is why we now have a CEO and it’s down to him in regards to firing and hiring. Getting McGreal in would be something that even Marcus Evans could do.

I would rather we took that extra time to get in the right man, though, but we need someone in place soon with the Jan window coming up.

User avatar
Bluemike
Global Moderator
Posts: 25025
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: Ipswich

Re: Our next manager

Post by Bluemike » Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:54 pm

I agree with Wilf, while the results and performances were reason enough to sack Cook, it just feels like there is definitely more to this than meets the eye and despite what others think and what was said in the media at 5ge time of the takeover, I don't think our owners ever really wanted Cook.

mendipblue
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:48 pm

Re: Our next manager

Post by mendipblue » Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:25 pm

I would be extremely unhappy if we appoint Neil Harris. That is not the type of Manager this club needs. Since Mccarthy we have had a couple of shockers in Hirst and Lambert, Cook should of done better and I believe his demise was more down to him criticising fans who voiced their opinions
on social media, this came when the owners were trying to get more fans into PR.
I would rather keep John Mcgreal than give a job to someone who is not going to excite the fans.

hallamblue
Posts: 27241
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:30 pm
Location: Ipswich Town F.C.

Re: Our next manager

Post by hallamblue » Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:59 pm

So once again Evans has hamstrung us then by possibly appointing Paul Cook. But I think it’s inconceivable that the Three Lions would have completed the deal in the knowledge that they would have no say over their manager.

Maybe something has gone wrong behind the scenes, but other than Norwood the players don’t appear to have had a problem with Cook, and even then, Norwood took to social media to say it wasn’t down to Cook.

So once again I come back to the uneasy feeling I have about Ashton. Is he making Town his next little empire ? I don’t know, but things are not sitting easy with me with the sacking of Cook after just 20 games with his new squad. How longs the next man going to get under Ashton then?

User avatar
saint jude
Posts: 9557
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:41 pm

Re: Our next manager

Post by saint jude » Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:18 pm

Took some time last night to view all presented names that hope to fill the vacancy following Cook's departure. None of them really set the page alight but that's to be expected given many things in consideration. Was surprised and most of all perturbed to see Mick McCarthy as one possible alternative but he's way down the pecking order. That would be fine for entertainment reaction purpose but other than that it can't go ahead.

Could reel off names beginning with Neil Harris, Mike Appleton, through to John Terry, Lampard and obscure crap like Sol Campbell and Evans at Gillingham. Say one last time best course of action is just allow McGreal to finish out the season and (the club) make a reasoned decision next summer when ample time has passed and better alternatives will be available.

User avatar
ashfordblue
Posts: 2557
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 7:52 pm
Location: Ashford Kent / was Felixstowe

Re: Our next manager

Post by ashfordblue » Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:41 pm

hallamblue wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:59 pm
So once again Evans has hamstrung us then by possibly appointing Paul Cook. But I think it’s inconceivable that the Three Lions would have completed the deal in the knowledge that they would have no say over their manager.

Maybe something has gone wrong behind the scenes, but other than Norwood the players don’t appear to have had a problem with Cook, and even then, Norwood took to social media to say it wasn’t down to Cook.

So once again I come back to the uneasy feeling I have about Ashton. Is he making Town his next little empire ? I don’t know, but things are not sitting easy with me with the sacking of Cook after just 20 games with his new squad. How longs the next man going to get under Ashton then?
Liz: If it is Ashton's decision on the next manager it will be either Derek McInnes or maybe Aidy Boothroyd, so we have to chew on that?? And its very strong that McInnes it will be, Not a bad manager by any means so lets just see what turns up

tangfastic
Posts: 4182
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:52 am

Re: Our next manager

Post by tangfastic » Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:57 pm

hallamblue wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:59 pm
So once again Evans has hamstrung us then by possibly appointing Paul Cook. But I think it’s inconceivable that the Three Lions would have completed the deal in the knowledge that they would have no say over their manager.

Maybe something has gone wrong behind the scenes, but other than Norwood the players don’t appear to have had a problem with Cook, and even then, Norwood took to social media to say it wasn’t down to Cook.

So once again I come back to the uneasy feeling I have about Ashton. Is he making Town his next little empire ? I don’t know, but things are not sitting easy with me with the sacking of Cook after just 20 games with his new squad. How longs the next man going to get under Ashton then?
Isn’t the setup different to Bristol City? Didn’t they have an owner who seemed more interested in the Bristol Rugby Union club and maybe gave Ashton leeway.

I wouldn’t say Ashton is completely rock solid in his position. The money comes from an investment fund and Ashton, I assume, reports to the 3 Lions and it’s not actually their money. They’re just responsible for investing it. If Ashton gets this wrong, he’s as likely to get the boot as the next manager.

The new name now high on the betting stakes is Anthony Barry. 35 year old and former coach under Cook at Wigan for 3 years and now set-piece coach at Chelsea. Any truth in this - couldn’t we have just brought him in as Cook’s number 2? His new Leam.

valleyroad
Posts: 334
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:54 pm

Re: Our next manager

Post by valleyroad » Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:42 pm

hallamblue wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:59 pm
So once again Evans has hamstrung us then by possibly appointing Paul Cook. But I think it’s inconceivable that the Three Lions would have completed the deal in the knowledge that they would have no say over their manager.

Maybe something has gone wrong behind the scenes, but other than Norwood the players don’t appear to have had a problem with Cook, and even then, Norwood took to social media to say it wasn’t down to Cook.

So once again I come back to the uneasy feeling I have about Ashton. Is he making Town his next little empire ? I don’t know, but things are not sitting easy with me with the sacking of Cook after just 20 games with his new squad. How longs the next man going to get under Ashton then?
I really don' t get this idea that Cook is an Evans appointment.
If he was he would have been shown the door as soon as the takeover was complete.
The idea that new owners would sanction what Paul Cook did and for him not to be their man is laughable and if they did they probably aren't fit to invest a pension funds money ?

User avatar
Bluemike
Global Moderator
Posts: 25025
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: Ipswich

Re: Our next manager

Post by Bluemike » Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:02 pm

One of the things our new owners made clear when they took over was that to get the deal done Marcus Evans drove a very very hard bargain and was insistent on certain things for the deal to be completed, it could very well be that Evans had already offered Cook the job and therefore that was one of the criteria in selling, it really isn't that obscure at all, I think its quite likely tbh, they didn't want Cook as first choice at all, Phil Ham has already been on record as saying their first choice was not Cook, he even named who they wanted.

tangfastic
Posts: 4182
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:52 am

Re: Our next manager

Post by tangfastic » Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:25 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:02 pm
One of the things our new owners made clear when they took over was that to get the deal done Marcus Evans drove a very very hard bargain and was insistent on certain things for the deal to be completed, it could very well be that Evans had already offered Cook the job and therefore that was one of the criteria in selling, it really isn't that obscure at all, I think its quite likely tbh, they didn't want Cook as first choice at all, Phil Ham has already been on record as saying their first choice was not Cook, he even named who they wanted.
Michael Appleton of Lincoln was supposedly their man. Currently in 18th place. Lincoln and Appleton might be happy to part company as things aren’t going well there atm. We give them a bit of compo before they sack him. Any takers on Appleton?

valleyroad
Posts: 334
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:54 pm

Re: Our next manager

Post by valleyroad » Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:11 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:02 pm
One of the things our new owners made clear when they took over was that to get the deal done Marcus Evans drove a very very hard bargain and was insistent on certain things for the deal to be completed, it could very well be that Evans had already offered Cook the job and therefore that was one of the criteria in selling, it really isn't that obscure at all, I think its quite likely tbh, they didn't want Cook as first choice at all, Phil Ham has already been on record as saying their first choice was not Cook, he even named who they wanted.
So thats logical but if I was the americans I'd have told Evans to stuff his deal and bailed out. The idea that Evans would dictate who I employed as manager to oversee the wholesale changes in a squad etc is for the birds. If they did that then they are very foolish.

User avatar
Bluemike
Global Moderator
Posts: 25025
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: Ipswich

Re: Our next manager

Post by Bluemike » Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:32 pm

Not if they knew they only had to keep him a few months, very little to lose and they get the purchase they wanted

hallamblue
Posts: 27241
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:30 pm
Location: Ipswich Town F.C.

Re: Our next manager

Post by hallamblue » Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:48 pm

There’s been talk for a while on twtd that an exceptional coach at Chelsea ( Anthony Barry), might even be our target now. Can’t see it myself but who knows in this mad world of football managerial merry go round.

User avatar
number 9
Posts: 4034
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:35 pm

Re: Our next manager

Post by number 9 » Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:55 pm

I just had a feeling of deja vu... :wink:

hallamblue
Posts: 27241
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:30 pm
Location: Ipswich Town F.C.

Re: Our next manager

Post by hallamblue » Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:03 pm

Middle name for all Town fans innit :lol:

User avatar
number 9
Posts: 4034
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:35 pm

Re: Our next manager

Post by number 9 » Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:05 pm

hallamblue wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:03 pm
Middle name for all Town fans innit :lol:
:lol:
...and now for something completely different.
https://www.suffolknews.co.uk/ipswich/s ... t-9230945/

User avatar
Bluemike
Global Moderator
Posts: 25025
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: Ipswich

Re: Our next manager

Post by Bluemike » Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:19 pm

One thing is certain, whoever said its a poison chalice that nobody would want is miles off

Locked