Our owners vision….what is it really?

[hallamblue]

Thought I’d open up a new thread 9n the back of Dyers podcast comments . Hope people don’t mind.

Dyer states he has a personal conflict with Gamechangers “ vision”, and his role as the U23 coach and all that, that job entails and means to him. Eg , his role is to develop players coming through the academy in preparation for the first team. He’s clearly annoyed that his U23 players are not getting a look in, and po8nts to the fact the acl7b are bringing on young players 9n loan from other clubs , that he feels are not better than some of h8s players in that U23 squad.

1) Does he have a point?

2) Does our owners vision include an academy?

3) If it does include the academy, WHY aren’t more players making it into the senior squad?

4) Should the club just rip up the academe and go the “ Brentford way”…when you consider any really decent academy players we’ve had over very recent years have been virtually “stolen” by PL, big bollox clubs, for next to nothing, and the fee we’ve received has barely covered the cost to this club to develop them thus far. Why bother ?


What do people feel about this ?

[Tangfastic]

Thought I’d open up a new thread 9n the back of Dyers podcast comments . Hope people don’t mind.

Dyer states he has a personal conflict with Gamechangers “ vision”, and his role as the U23 coach and all that, that job entails and means to him. Eg , his role is to develop players coming through the academy in preparation for the first team. He’s clearly annoyed that his U23 players are not getting a look in, and po8nts to the fact the acl7b are bringing on young players 9n loan from other clubs , that he feels are not better than some of h8s players in that U23 squad.

1) Does he have a point?

How big is the priority of blooding youngsters compared to getting out of this league?
Getting the best players on the pitch is far more important than putting an academy player in. Players like Woolf, Downes and Dozzell took years (and loans in Woolf and Downes case) before they matured to be first team regulars. Can we afford 1,2 or 3 years before they’re ready? If a youngster comes in - he’ll have to hit the ground running as there’s more competition.

2) Does our owners vision include an academy?

Don’t know, but I’m sure they’re priority is going up the leagues and making money out of this club. The first team comes first and the academy comes well behind and has to keep up.

3) If it does include the academy, WHY aren’t more players making it into the senior squad?

We sold on Dozzell and Downes and they might have been part of our squad if they didn’t move on. Woolf and El Mizouni are part of the first team squad. Baggott lately. How many academy players do we need before we’re satisfied? We’ve had loads of academy players make the first team, but the likes of Bishop, Kenlock,Lankester, Dobra, Drinan haven’t pushed us on. What do we actually want ? 5-6-7 academy players in the first team? What are the fans vision - to see our team full of academy products? That seems more like part of a Evans 5 point plan.

4) Should the club just rip up the academe and go the “ Brentford way”…when you consider any really decent academy players we’ve had over very recent years have been virtually “stolen” by PL, big bollox clubs, for next to nothing, and the fee we’ve received has barely covered the cost to this club to develop them thus far. Why bother ?

The ones who were poached by big clubs have made us more money than the likes of Bishop and Lankester. Bishop went for 225k, Lankester less. Didn’t we get a million for that kid who went to Man City? We received 600-700k for Gibbs. Charlie Brown- 500k? We’ve made more money out of these lot than ones we’ve given pro contracts. I think the academy has its place, but I’d go for quality over quantity. If we can develop a player a season who either becomes a regular or get sold on for a good profit then it becomes worthwhile.

What do people feel about this ?

[shabba]

Great post and great reply by Tang and covers it nicely.

I suspect the academy will get attention when the club is at a higher level, as right now it’ll not be of the standard to really produce players for the level we need once they mature.

I suspect it’ll be a model more based on bringing in players young for the first team - developing and selling on.

I think the academy model only works at the top level as the only teams with serious cash to spend on young talent is top clubs, look at Chelsea for that. Hope that makes sense? Ie not many league one or lower champ clubs are selling young players for huge fees?

[marko69]

Great reply Tangfastic, and thanks for the colour blindness.

[Bluemike]

Perfect there Tang, exactly how I see it.

[number 9]

Yep agree with what Tang said. I also think the Academy is lower on the owner’s list of things to improve. First and foremost is promotion, and if that means choosing loans over the U23s so be it.

KD is an ITFC legend, but I think he’s lashing out cuz his feelings have been hurt over the McGreal situation.

[hallamblue]

Good feedback guys . Keep it coming … just raising the topic for discussion really

[hallamblue]

On the point about blooding or using U23’s . My thoughts on it are , as a Club we either believe in the ethos of having an academy pathway , or we don’t .

I’m certainly not a “KD for manager” advocat, he’s not good enough . But he’s an excellent coach and that’ll be where he ends up I suspect . But I feel he has a point about the pathway to first team for our youngsters. If this Club had no intention of ever using them why have an academy? You can’t cherry pick an” appropriate time to adopt” that pathway. Eg “we need to get promoted first” . You either believe in the academy ethos or you don’t .


Why is it appropriate to bring in and play other Clubs young players now ( when we’re looking to get promoted) but not use our own ?

Bakinson has improved with games at Town. So why not (KD is asking), Cameron Humphries, who he feels after Morsy is the next best midfielder at this club. I must admit when I saw him play his one and only game he was bloody brilliant! So maybe KD does have a point.

We’ve brought in Thompson. He doesn’t impress me at all. Is he any better than Bailey Clements ? I’d say not . McKenna wants a left back to get forward and stick crosses in the box. Clements is head and shoulders above Thompson in my view. But where is he now ?

My thoughts are, We should either use the U23’s now or scrap the academy. If this club is not prepared to use them in division three . It certainly never will in the Championship or PL will it.

[Tangfastic]

Are we in danger of making too much of this? There's been massive change over the last year on and off the field and just because the under 23 coach has resigned and mentioned there is no route for young players, it doesn't mean he's right and it doesn't mean the club wants to phase out the academy..

The club won't buy 18 players again in the summer and could want to streamline the staff further. It could offer opportunities for youngsters as back up. Give the club time to settle down. McKenna has said he wants a smaller squad to work with on the training pitch and now he's being asked to bring in more youngsters to work with.

If a young kid is good enough, I'm sure McKenna will play him. It's his job on the line and he'll want to get the best players on the pitch whoever they are. As for Bakinson and Thompson - I think they're holding their own without being world-beaters. Better than the crap loanees we had last year.
It's up to the kids to earn the right to play for us and not be handed it on a plate.
And if we are buying in better players then the academy has to keep up. What should we do - keep the standard low so that offers more chance for an academy player to get in the side?

[marko69]

It's up to the kids to earn the right to play for us and not be handed it on a plate.

True. But......, the vision MUST be only one thing. Promotion because there will never be any "clout" in this tier. Kids can earn their right......., BUT......, if they take it too far and play well (like Downes) , well they'll not be at ITFC anymore....., and so the vicious circle goes round and round.

PROMOTION!!!! Those SILLY SILLY fans who thought relegation would be " a good thing" for ITFC. Jeez Louise Enrique.

[hallamblue]

Tang I do agree with your sentiments regarding players not being handed it on a plate . Absolutely.

Us fans are never going to know if a young player should be given a shot at it - unless we watch the U23 on a regular basis . Which I doubt many of us do. But the one person who would know if a player deserved a shot at it would be Dyer.

I acknowledge that he has shown that he wears his heart firmly on his sleeve , but despite being so passionate about his players, there must surely be one or two that are deserving of an appearance- the U23 are ripping it up this season , so these players are performing very well .

A “reward” surely, would be a few minutes for the first team. If the Club doesn’t offer this , what message does it send to these players we have spent do much to develop? We don’t appear to have had that many being given a shot at it over the last two seasons . Yet we are often told there is some real talent in the wings. Maybe we’ll see one or two of them once PO’s have been ruled out.

[Bluemike]

Well KM has come out today and this is going to be a very good place for kids to be but we must be patient, not sure that last bit is ever gonna happen lol.

And I hate to keep saying this but I completely agree with Tangs last post again.

[MasseyFerguson]

PROMOTION!!!! Those SILLY SILLY fans who thought relegation would be " a good thing" for ITFC. Jeez Louise Enrique.

That's the attitude that always got to me. How anybody actually looked forward to us being relegated I will never understand. We are well set for promotion next year, If we can keep our manager!

[hallamblue]

Well KM has come out today and this is going to be a very good place for kids to be but we must be patient, not sure that last bit is ever gonna happen lol.

And I hate to keep saying this but I completely agree with Tangs last post again.

Yes I’ve literally just seen it …. And that frankly is a big relief

https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-new ... 5kyuhxy2bj