If I Was Manager

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BlueBalls
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by BlueBalls » Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:28 pm

valleyroad wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:39 pm
rossi wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:07 am
Blue Wilf wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:26 pm
I tend to agree Mendip. Sometimes backwards or sideways (much as I hate it in the 'Cole Skuse' mode) is often necessary to take the steam out of an opposition attack or a chance to re-group, regain control and start another offensive move of our own. The concept of only ever passing forwards is, in theory a positive one but it will never be more than that - a theory as it is just not practical in practice.
Maybe not now, but that wasn't always the case. When I started to watch football there was very little back passing, largely I think because the 2-3-5 formation that was prevalent until the early 70's lent itself to playing the game on the offensive. And I don't recall seeing much backwards passing from Ipswich as recently as in Joe Royle's tenure.

So it's not at all correct to say that the game cannot be played using mainly forward passing - it's just that the trend over the past 50 years has put money as the all important thing in the game and consequently managers are of the opinion that 'first priority is to make sure you don't lose'.

And I cannot for the life of me understand people who think that the style of football that moves the ball around in triangles is good - if you move the ball in a triangle, then after then third pass the ball ends up exactly where it started, which is fine if you want to watch boring non-offensive football but not otherwise
Is this not how the great Barca team under Guardiola and others played their football ?
Yes, but I think that must've been a joke post. The triangle diamond whatever doesn't stand their static. It moves.

hallamblue
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by hallamblue » Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:04 pm

If the triangle moves forward, in a pass and move forwards pattern, then it works surely? SBR team played in triangles


………………..1…………………..




2…………………………………..3


Number 2 passes to number 1…….number 3 moves forward level with 1….number 2 having passed the ball moves forward ahead of number 3….. receives the ball from number 1…( or number 3 who may have got the ball from 3, who then passes it forward to 2…..but the three players have moved forwards.


Almost impossible to show diagrammatically on the forum….



………….2……………



1…………………….3

mendipblue
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by mendipblue » Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:19 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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goldandblack
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by goldandblack » Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:09 pm

hallamblue wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:04 pm
If the triangle moves forward, in a pass and move forwards pattern, then it works surely? SBR team played in triangles


………………..1…………………..




2…………………………………..3


Number 2 passes to number 1…….number 3 moves forward level with 1….number 2 having passed the ball moves forward ahead of number 3….. receives the ball from number 1…( or number 3 who may have got the ball from 3, who then passes it forward to 2…..but the three players have moved forwards.


Almost impossible to show diagrammatically on the forum….



………….2……………



1…………………….3


youve just reinvented the Netherlands formation Lis, All you need now is the likes of Johnny Rep,Rob Rensenbrink,Johan Neeskens,Johan Cruyff,Ruud Krol.etc, from the 70s, it worked for the Neverlands with the triangle never being more than 6 metres apart. well long before your time but look at their record in World Football. and El Tel dabbled with the same idea and would have won us trophy's had he been allowed to continue,

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ually-play

Image
Holland’s Total Footballers line up before their opening match of the 1974 World Cup against Sweden. Photograph: Bob Thomas/Getty Images
Last edited by goldandblack on Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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number 9
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by number 9 » Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:08 am

Oh dear, it’s always a conspiracy theory! We just choke under pressure…just like recently against the Italians. We don’t have a winning mentality.
Last edited by number 9 on Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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rossi
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by rossi » Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:30 am

BlueBalls wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:28 pm
valleyroad wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:39 pm
rossi wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:07 am


Maybe not now, but that wasn't always the case. When I started to watch football there was very little back passing, largely I think because the 2-3-5 formation that was prevalent until the early 70's lent itself to playing the game on the offensive. And I don't recall seeing much backwards passing from Ipswich as recently as in Joe Royle's tenure.

So it's not at all correct to say that the game cannot be played using mainly forward passing - it's just that the trend over the past 50 years has put money as the all important thing in the game and consequently managers are of the opinion that 'first priority is to make sure you don't lose'.

And I cannot for the life of me understand people who think that the style of football that moves the ball around in triangles is good - if you move the ball in a triangle, then after then third pass the ball ends up exactly where it started, which is fine if you want to watch boring non-offensive football but not otherwise
Is this not how the great Barca team under Guardiola and others played their football ?
Yes, but I think that must've been a joke post. The triangle diamond whatever doesn't stand their static. It moves.
It was not a joke post at all - as you rightly say, triangle and other formations rarely stay static, they move - sometimes forwards but more often than not backwards relative to where they started. The original post had nothing to do with triangles or any other geometric shapes, but was simply this - if you take the point at which England (and Ipswich) first get possession of the ball in a game as zero, and then add to that every time they move the ball forwards (by yardage) and subtract from it every time they move the ball backwards, then I'm betting that at the end of the game that starting figure of zero will be negative. In other words, net movement of the ball by a team over the whole game will be backwards.

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Andym
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by Andym » Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:06 pm

MasseyFerguson wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:10 pm
Fitness levels in the modern game are on a different level than they used to be. Any team playing direct, backs give the ball forward to midfielders, who give the ball forward to forwards all the time will get murdered. There would be no space to do anything creative.

The point of all the sideways, forward, backwards, sideways, forward, backwards, sideways ad nauseam passing is to pull opposition players out of position and create space to exploit.

The problem for most teams who do it is that they do not do it well and, even when space is created, they do not have the skill to exploit it.

That is why so many teams, and so many games, are tedious to watch.
Agree completely. Good teams move the ball backwards to create space by moving the position. They then exploit the space quickly and accurately.
Playing the ball forward without a viable option is giving away possession or playing someone in trouble.
The key is, where you pass forwards, backwards or sideways, is to have players moving off the ball, creating options. The “negative” backwards pass is usually the result of a lack of movement by team mates, although not reading the game and seeing that movement doesn’t help either

hallamblue
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by hallamblue » Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:13 pm

goldandblack wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:09 pm
hallamblue wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:04 pm
If the triangle moves forward, in a pass and move forwards pattern, then it works surely? SBR team played in triangles


………………..1…………………..




2…………………………………..3


Number 2 passes to number 1…….number 3 moves forward level with 1….number 2 having passed the ball moves forward ahead of number 3….. receives the ball from number 1…( or number 3 who may have got the ball from 3, who then passes it forward to 2…..but the three players have moved forwards.


Almost impossible to show diagrammatically on the forum….



………….2……………



1…………………….3


youve just reinvented the Netherlands formation Lis, All you need now is the likes of Johnny Rep,Rob Rensenbrink,Johan Neeskens,Johan Cruyff,Ruud Krol.etc, from the 70s, it worked for the Neverlands with the triangle never being more than 6 metres apart. well long before your time but look at their record in World Football. and El Tel dabbled with the same idea and would have won us trophy's had he been allowed to continue,

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ually-play

Image
Holland’s Total Footballers line up before their opening match of the 1974 World Cup against Sweden. Photograph: Bob Thomas/Getty Images
.....which is why Bobby Robson was so ahead of the game in England when he used it at Ipswich. He'd adopted a continental way of playing , and whilst the English game were paying homage to the two Spurs Argentine foreign imports , our two Dutch lads were leading the way at Town almost unnoticed!!

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goldandblack
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by goldandblack » Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:28 pm

hallamblue wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:13 pm
goldandblack wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:09 pm
hallamblue wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:04 pm
If the triangle moves forward, in a pass and move forwards pattern, then it works surely? SBR team played in triangles


Number 2 passes to number 1…….number 3 moves forward level with 1….number 2 having passed the ball moves forward ahead of number 3….. receives the ball from number 1…( or number 3 who may have got the ball from 3, who then passes it forward to 2…..but the three players have moved forwards.

Almost impossible to show diagrammatically on the forum….


youve just reinvented the Netherlands formation Lis, All you need now is the likes of Johnny Rep,Rob Rensenbrink,Johan Neeskens,Johan Cruyff,Ruud Krol.etc, from the 70s, it worked for the Neverlands with the triangle never being more than 6 metres apart. well long before your time but look at their record in World Football. and El Tel dabbled with the same idea and would have won us trophy's had he been allowed to continue,



Image
Holland’s Total Footballers line up before their opening match of the 1974 World Cup against Sweden. Photograph: Bob Thomas/Getty Images
.....which is why Bobby Robson was so ahead of the game in England when he used it at Ipswich. He'd adopted a continental way of playing , and whilst the English game were paying homage to the two Spurs Argentine foreign imports , our two Dutch lads were leading the way at Town almost unnoticed!!
yes Bobby Robson was way ahead of our Countries game at the time, Mourinho,, Venables , and loads of top World managers learned their trade from Bobby Robson, you were so lucky to get him at the Town, and as you say the two Dutch lads was the icing on the Cake, players wanted to learn from him,
He also produced some of your history's legends, a bit like Brian Clough but with class,

Managers of his class these days chase the biggest buck. and the biggest war chest, clubs like yours and mine will never attract his likes again, :(

hallamblue
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by hallamblue » Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:03 pm

When Bobby Robson came to us he’s just been sacked by Fulham . Town I believe was his second managerial job, so a rookie. Bet Fulham wished they’d kept him now !

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number 9
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by number 9 » Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:52 pm

If you’ve read the Kevin Beatie book, he talks about Bobby Robson telling the lady who took care of KB…Robson said, give him steaks every day. In that era, we had a hairy man squad with physicality & strength. Think about it, look at that squad.

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goldandblack
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by goldandblack » Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:23 am

hallamblue wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:03 pm
When Bobby Robson came to us he’s just been sacked by Fulham . Town I believe was his second managerial job, so a rookie. Bet Fulham wished they’d kept him now !
I'd forgot that it was that early in his managers career he came to the Town, so really he can thank Ipswich for his step on the ladder, a bit of a history lesson for me Liz, :D

He played for Sandwell Town for a while, he wouldn't have got his football brain from their, 8)

hallamblue
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by hallamblue » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:45 am

When I moved into the house I’m in now in 1978, (more than 40 yrs ago), up in the loft were loads of old newspapers . When I got them down to chuck out I had a look through some of them . They were national newspapers, and it showed a young Bobby Robson sporting his “ lucky waistcoat “ under his official England Squad jacket, as he bordered the plane with the rest of the England squad. There were also pictures of him ( a very young Bobby Robson ) of him playing for WBA as their midfielder.

It felt kinda eerie but right that his playing days were documented in national papers thst had been left in my loft for years before he was soon to be legend of a manager with ITFC. In 1978 he was by then already starting to build that brilliant squad of ‘81👍

LizinSpain
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by LizinSpain » Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:54 am

I'm always a glass half full kinda girl but when it comes to the England Mens team I empty it completely then I'm never disappointed just occasionally mildly surprised!!! 🤣 Looking forward to watching the girls the Euros soon though!!! 🦁🦁🦁

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goldandblack
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by goldandblack » Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:19 pm

If I was the manager,
My Rules;
1. Anyone proved diving to cheat, fine 1 month’s wages and dropped for 1 game.
2. Anyone disrespecting the referees or linesmen decision, fine 1 month’s wages and dropped for 1 game.
3. Any player booked for taking his shirt off after scoring, or wasting time, fine 6 month’s wages and dropped for 3 game.
4. Anyone spitting on the pitch, fine 1 weeks wages for each offence.
5. Any Manager, Coaching staff etc. showing disrespect to the 4th official, fined 6 months wages.
6. Any player going to the crowd to celebrate a goal. fine 1 weeks wages for each offence
7, While contracted to the club, No outside commitments, No TV Advertising, No TV pundit work, No getting involved in politics,

Pre match briefing

We don’t celebrate goals as this makes the opposition think it’s easy.
We want 100% from you all for the whole 90 + mins.
And don’t lose 8)

BlueBalls
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by BlueBalls » Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:06 pm

goldandblack wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:19 pm
If I was the manager,
My Rules;
1. Anyone proved diving to cheat, fine 1 month’s wages and dropped for 1 game.
2. Anyone disrespecting the referees or linesmen decision, fine 1 month’s wages and dropped for 1 game.
3. Any player booked for taking his shirt off after scoring, or wasting time, fine 6 month’s wages and dropped for 3 game.
4. Anyone spitting on the pitch, fine 1 weeks wages for each offence.
5. Any Manager, Coaching staff etc. showing disrespect to the 4th official, fined 6 months wages.
6. Any player going to the crowd to celebrate a goal. fine 1 weeks wages for each offence
7, While contracted to the club, No outside commitments, No TV Advertising, No TV pundit work, No getting involved in politics,

Pre match briefing

We don’t celebrate goals as this makes the opposition think it’s easy.
We want 100% from you all for the whole 90 + mins.
And don’t lose 8)
3 is not worse than 1 and 2.

6 is nonsense.

I agree with the rest.

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goldandblack
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by goldandblack » Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:06 pm

BlueBalls wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:06 pm
goldandblack wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:19 pm
If I was the manager,
My Rules;
1. Anyone proved diving to cheat, fine 1 month’s wages and dropped for 1 game.
2. Anyone disrespecting the referees or linesmen decision, fine 1 month’s wages and dropped for 1 game.
3. Any player booked for taking his shirt off after scoring, or wasting time, fine 6 month’s wages and dropped for 3 game.
4. Anyone spitting on the pitch, fine 1 weeks wages for each offence.
5. Any Manager, Coaching staff etc. showing disrespect to the 4th official, fined 6 months wages.
6. Any player going to the crowd to celebrate a goal. fine 1 weeks wages for each offence
7, While contracted to the club, No outside commitments, No TV Advertising, No TV pundit work, No getting involved in politics,

Pre match briefing

We don’t celebrate goals as this makes the opposition think it’s easy.
We want 100% from you all for the whole 90 + mins.
And don’t lose 8)
3 is not worse than 1 and 2.

6 is nonsense.

I agree with the rest.
OK I have adjusted it, your right I was being too lenient.
Rule 6.( my reason for the rule) When these players go into the crowd it is soon to cause an incident, plus you look at how these players just shove stewards out of the way, total ignorance,

1. Anyone proved diving to cheat, fine 6 month’s wages and dropped for 3 game.
2. Anyone disrespecting the referees or linesmen decision, fine 6 month’s wages and dropped for 3 game.
3. Any player booked for taking his shirt off after scoring, or wasting time, fine 6 month’s wages and dropped for 3 game.
4. Anyone spitting on the pitch, fine 1 weeks wages for each offence.
5. Any Manager, Coaching staff etc. showing disrespect to the 4th official, fined 6 months wages.
6. Any player going to the crowd to celebrate a goal. fine 1 weeks wages for each offence

You got any more rules you would like to add Blue,

BlueBalls
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by BlueBalls » Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:13 pm

Ah go INTO the crowd, I thought you'd said go to the crowd like every goal ever.

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goldandblack
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Re: If I Was Manager

Post by goldandblack » Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:34 pm

BlueBalls wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:13 pm
Ah go INTO the crowd, I thought you'd said go to the crowd like every goal ever.
to be honest i meant both,as well as when these players go over to the wall ( too close)and causes a serge from the crowd to the front ,

Anyway as to my Pre match briefing, they wouldn't go against the managers words would they :D
"We don’t celebrate goals as this makes the opposition think it’s easy to score against them".

I remember a manager telling his players this and they scored over 100 goals 4 out of 5 season, in top flight football.

I'm not saying i'd be a great football manager but i recon i'd be in the top one, 8)

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