World Cup 2022?!

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number 9
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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by number 9 » Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:36 am

^^^
f*ck Maradona he’s a cheating b*stard. Messi is class!

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marko69
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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by marko69 » Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:44 am

arana peligrosa wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:32 am
Some say Messi is the best ever, but it's not general consensus opinion. Having watched Diego numerous times at domestic and international level, the latter can never really be surpassed. Maradona was, and is, the greatest of his nations soccer figures. Messi has done well, real well, is a name of great caliber and talent but for those of a certain age, can't quite measure up to the name of yesteryear. Both players were immense, deserved to lead their country to a World Championship winning team.
Certainly will split opinion for many decades to come regarding these two legends.

The only fly in the ointment for your opinion though is ———->> Maradona himself said Lionel Messi is the best ever. :lol: Got to go with that eh Spidey? 👍👌

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Ricco
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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by Ricco » Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:25 pm

To be honest I don't even think that you should or could debate about 'better' players when it comes to most of the worlds best, particularly from different generations, it all becomes pretty subjective.

I'm always intrigued about Messi vs Maradona however, as they're actually similar in style. You can't split them on 'highlight' videos, as any of the world top 100 look as good as each other in highlight videos. You need to watch a player for a long time, to see them waste the ball, give away fouls, miss chances, drift out of games etc. I wasn't really around to watch Maradona at length, so I certainly don't have a noteworthy opinion, but I do have one!

I'm convinced many people who claim Maradona as the best have romanticised memories, partly because of his charisma and leadership (which Messi doesn't have), and partly because of the flair and passion he played with (which Messi doesn't have) and all that would only be further distorted by time. Surely 'best' players should be judged on how effective they are, and that includes longevity, adaptability and all that. I think when it comes to the whole package, Messi tops Maradona, he certainly does statistically. Maradona was one of the best to ever play the game, Messi is one of the best to ever play the game, I think it's unfair to split them, but I definitely say there is no player 'better' than them.

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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by Bluemike » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:12 pm

For me it's Messi all day long.

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arana peligrosa
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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by arana peligrosa » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:28 pm

number 9 wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:36 am
^^^
f*ck Maradona he’s a cheating b*stard. Messi is class!
That's just typical Brit resentment. Fair to say a number of English fail to recognize Diego for the player he were because of one moment in one game that happened so far back, people still hold on to animosity. If the two teams had never met back in '86 and the hand ball incident had never occurred, fans would be more than ready to provide the player with the honor and prestige the name deserved. As it is, because of that moment, fans perspective will always be clouded. "He's not a player of immense ability, but a cheat son of a bitch" et cetera.

It's a shame, but can understand the viewpoint and where any hatred arises from. Didn't affect me, wasn't my nation on the wrong end of a poor decision or felt some great injustice. All right the first goal was maybe dubious but got to admire the ingenuity of it. The second goal soon after doesn't really require elaboration.

To save answering another post, some need to ask themself if Messi would have been able to score the said second goal against England in the Azteca Stadium that day, not only that, but the ones against Belgium and Italy at the same tournament. That's what Maradona does, or did - amazing twisting bull like runs that mesmerizes an entire defense. An exceptional low center of gravity that made it possible to maneuver past players and cover areas of the field like no other.

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Ricco
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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by Ricco » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:46 pm

arana peligrosa wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:28 pm
fans would be more than ready to provide the player with the honor and prestige the name deserved.
Nope, you're wrong there I'm afraid SJ, it's not a singular incident, Maradona was not a model human and he doesn't deserve honour and prestige. You don't get honour and prestige from being good at kicking a pigs bladder about. Messi is as close to a model professional as those at the top of the game get, he deserves honour and prestige. And yes the Brits hold grudges, but so do americans, so don't start spewing that garbage. Besides, 1982 and 1986 are far more recent than the 1770s :lol:

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PS since when does Y*nks automatically change to 'americans' I was never aware it was particularly derogatory :lol:

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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by Bluemike » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:55 pm

For me he was a cheat, an animal and a bit of a low life, enough said, comparing him with Messi is like comparing an Angel with the Devil.

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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by marko69 » Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:02 pm

Cant speak for you guys, but when asked to compare DM & LM, its ONLY the football i personally judge it on…… and for me, streets ahead is wee Lionel.

Comparing the “characters” would be an insult to the type of person Messi comes across as.

That is all opinion ^^^^ no one really knows what Messi is like, but judging by how people flock to him and how he is spoken of, anyone would be silly to assume he is anywhere like Diego.

Murican accent…… Based purely on the saaaaawker , Saint ….. little Messi wins, no contest, Brother!

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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by Bluemike » Mon Dec 19, 2022 6:13 pm

That's an issue of mine Marko, I DO Compare the characters I'm afraid, I shouldn't but I do, that aside, Messi better footballer too.

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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by Charnwood » Mon Dec 19, 2022 6:15 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 6:13 pm
That's an issue of mine Marko, I DO Compare the characters I'm afraid, I shouldn't but I do, that aside, Messi better footballer too.
… and you haven’t even mentioned drug addict, alcoholic, wife beater and tax evader, the perfect role model.

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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by marko69 » Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:57 pm

Bluemike wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 6:13 pm
That's an issue of mine Marko, I DO Compare the characters I'm afraid, I shouldn't but I do, that aside, Messi better footballer too.
:lol: sometimes its difficult not to.

LizinSpain
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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by LizinSpain » Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:11 am

AzzurroMark wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 4:20 pm
LizinSpain wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:43 pm
No self respecting English person (cant say englishman as its genger specific and that's not acceptable anymore apparently :wink: ) wants Argentina to win for 2 obvious reasons. It is hard supporting France too but that is what I'll be doing tonight!! Allez Les Bleus!!
I have read many comments on this particular thread and while I am not wishing to start more arguments (also sorry Liz for using your post in particular. It's only because it's the most recent and reflects much of those posts before), but I really do not get the levels of resentment.
I think back to 2 of the earliest (and finest) South American players to grace the English game, Ricky Villa and Ossie Ardiles and the disruption to their football careers along with the abuse they suffered as a result of the Falklands invasion. Two very talented individuals who suffered as the result of an Argentinian dictatorship's decision! History, I am sure is littered with similar stories! Take "Bert" Trautmann, Man City's German goalkeeper who initially suffered terrible abuse because he had fought on the "other side" in WW2. These guys are human beings.
So Maradona "cheated" in 86, but had Lineker have scored in that manner, would we have been complaining?

For me I don't really mind who wins today, though if I was going to side with any team it would be with Argentina, mainly because I think it would be a fitting tribute to a great player in Lionel Messi. Also, the atmosphere created by their fans has also been fantastic.

No apology needed! I absolutely understand where you are coming from and agree about RV & OA, (I was lucky enough to see both of them play on numerous occasions and loved watching them), and never gave them anything but support, but I can't, and will never support Argentina. I think Messi is the GOAT but as soon as he pulls on his national shirt that's a different thing. As for Germany, I lived there for 5 years and even with our football history against them I'd rather support them than Argentina!! Each to their own opinion, which is why I love this site more than a certain other one, as you can have an opinion here! Have a very Merry Christmas ! COYB

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AzzurroMark
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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by AzzurroMark » Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:37 am

LizinSpain wrote:
Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:11 am
AzzurroMark wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 4:20 pm
LizinSpain wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:43 pm
No self respecting English person (cant say englishman as its genger specific and that's not acceptable anymore apparently :wink: ) wants Argentina to win for 2 obvious reasons. It is hard supporting France too but that is what I'll be doing tonight!! Allez Les Bleus!!
I have read many comments on this particular thread and while I am not wishing to start more arguments (also sorry Liz for using your post in particular. It's only because it's the most recent and reflects much of those posts before), but I really do not get the levels of resentment.
I think back to 2 of the earliest (and finest) South American players to grace the English game, Ricky Villa and Ossie Ardiles and the disruption to their football careers along with the abuse they suffered as a result of the Falklands invasion. Two very talented individuals who suffered as the result of an Argentinian dictatorship's decision! History, I am sure is littered with similar stories! Take "Bert" Trautmann, Man City's German goalkeeper who initially suffered terrible abuse because he had fought on the "other side" in WW2. These guys are human beings.
So Maradona "cheated" in 86, but had Lineker have scored in that manner, would we have been complaining?

For me I don't really mind who wins today, though if I was going to side with any team it would be with Argentina, mainly because I think it would be a fitting tribute to a great player in Lionel Messi. Also, the atmosphere created by their fans has also been fantastic.

No apology needed! I absolutely understand where you are coming from and agree about RV & OA, (I was lucky enough to see both of them play on numerous occasions and loved watching them), and never gave them anything but support, but I can't, and will never support Argentina. I think Messi is the GOAT but as soon as he pulls on his national shirt that's a different thing. As for Germany, I lived there for 5 years and even with our football history against them I'd rather support them than Argentina!! Each to their own opinion, which is why I love this site more than a certain other one, as you can have an opinion here! Have a very Merry Christmas ! COYB
❤️ your reply Liz, thank you. What a dull world it would be if we all shared the same opinion. It's all about being respectful of other's views when replying.
Second your comment regarding this site.
Merry Christmas.

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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by marko69 » Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:38 pm

If anyone watched the hour long iplayer Messi doc, this picture is appreciated so much more. In that, as a 12 year old, he’s asked what his ambition is….. to bring world cup to Argentina…

Here is heading down the stairs off the plane, in Argentina…… with the World Cup. Well done…. Ambition achieved. 🇦🇷👍

Image



Wonder if Billy Gilmour had any ambitions like this. 🤔

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number 9
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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by number 9 » Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:23 pm

I finally got to see the match in its entirety last night. Super! I have to give Deschamps credit for the gutsy substitutions he made, especially taking off Giroud and Griezmann. It looked like Argentina tried to slow the game down in the second half, but it eventually backfired. It begs the question, should Argentina have came out with guns blazing while the French were still in recovery mode?

Messi certainly played like 'the Captain' and he could have possibly won the match in extra time with a blasted shot that Lloris did well to save. It's amazing how much power little Messi can produce with a shot like that! His PSG team-mate also created havoc in the South Americans penalty box and probably could have won it just the same.

I'm still very pleased Messi got his due reward and seeing him admiring the WC trophy was brilliant. The way Messi roused the Argentina fans after scoring that third goal was a special moment and showed why so many people love him.

I started this WC thread with doubt and negativity, but I have to admit it will probably go down as one of the most competitive and entertaining WCs in history.

Bring on USA 2026!!!

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arana peligrosa
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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by arana peligrosa » Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:36 am

It won't just be America but Canada and Mexico also. I mean the one just passed was a questionable location but now they're spreading it over three different nations. Something just doesn't sit right but years from now the damn thing will be scattered all over the globe. Euro 2020 was something of a mess with games all across Europe instead of just one or two designated countries, which how it should be. It's a shame but it's what they've done to it.

Not taking into account Sunday's victory but it's high time they featured it in Argentina once again. 1978 was the last occasion and in retrospect it shouldn't have been awarded at the time as the country was in the grip of a military coup and standard of refereeing was in so many words, incompetent, but right now they've got more soccer stadiums there than any other country on earth. Instead they "vote" to pick Russia or out in the desert. What the f*ck was it doing in South Africa some years back of all places.

Last word on the competition just passed and many times was on the verge of losing all interest but in the end it was worth sticking with. The English could just have easily won it themselves and a player scores three in the Final yet finishes up on the losing side. There were no Italians to begin with, Germany went out early and Ronaldo was denied a potential winners medal by Moroccans. Was it a success ? Got to say Yes, although a number of questionable episodes / decisions and viewpoints will always remain.

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marko69
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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by marko69 » Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:53 am

No recollection of 1974, but the 78 WC was superb for (at the time) a 9 year old with 4 loud uncles! :lol: Peru, Iran ….. and Archies goal v Holland …… great memories. And Argentina thumping Peru 6-0 (they had to :lol: ) ….. was definitely some shady goings on. Do have really fond memories of that moment in time, bang in the middle of the parents’ two “failed” Australia emigration attempts and the wee sister being born.

And Argentina with most stadiums? Did not know that. 👍

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arana peligrosa
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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by arana peligrosa » Thu Dec 22, 2022 1:28 am

marko69 wrote:
Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:53 am
No recollection of 1974, but the 78 WC was superb for (at the time) a 9 year old with 4 loud uncles! :lol: Peru, Iran ….. and Archies goal v Holland …… great memories. And Argentina thumping Peru 6-0 (they had to :lol: ) ….. was definitely some shady goings on. Do have really fond memories of that moment in time, bang in the middle of the parents’ two “failed” Australia emigration attempts and the wee sister being born.

And Argentina with most stadiums? Did not know that. 👍
In '74 it rained a lot, probably the wettest contest in WC history, Netherlands won 4 - 0 in a torrential (rain) storm with Cryuff at his absolute best and the Final in Munich, they had to work on the field days in advance to remove water and able for the game to go ahead. People say that Dutch team were the best ever not to win the World Cup but always take the opportunity to insist it were Hungary 20 years earlier.

Scotland didn't lose a game in 1974 did they but still went out at the first group stages. Can always recall Ally MacLeod saying four years after (that) the team would bring the trophy home to Glasgow before time of tournament but as mentioned they fell to Cuba, sorry, Peru, and only tied with Iran. Saved the best till last with a surprise win over finalists Netherlands and the Gemmill goal we've seen time and again.

Johnston failed a medical, banned substance, and after that the wheels came off. In hindsight it's a case of what might have been but you can mention that with a number of Scots team in WC competition over the years. Recall Uruguay in '86, the opposition had a player dismissed after two or three minutes and the chance was there to win and progress but interim boss Alex Ferguson made a number of changes to the squad for that one game and it backfired real bad. Was one of the worst Scots performances you can recall in the whole history of international event.

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Re: World Cup 2022?!

Post by marko69 » Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:19 am

Think it was done & dusted by the time of the Uruguay game, Saint. Needed a bit of a miracle after two defeats to the Danes & WG.
A 0-0 v a ten man Uruguay (for 87 mins) was indeed poor.
But always a highlight made with the Scots @ WC’s……. Gemmil in 78, Hansen & Miller f**king up v USSR in 82, and wee Strachan putting the lads 1-0 up v WG ——>> then forgetting he’s too small to leap the advertising boards. :lol:

Costa Rica 90, and pumped 3-0 by Morocco in 98. 🤦‍♂️ Jeezo, what a night that was.

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