Premier League Formation?

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ITFC2024
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Premier League Formation?

Post by ITFC2024 » Fri Jun 28, 2024 8:28 pm

Kieran McKenna did not change his philosophy from League One to Championship. And, his philosophy of attacking football has paid off. But, will life in the Premier League influence his approach, Or will KM adjust?

I know this is a random thread topic, and I don’t know about anyone else, but for me we’ll have to adopt a more defensive approach to survive.

Any thoughts? Will KM change the strategy?

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by shabba » Fri Jun 28, 2024 9:29 pm

He did tweak things though - we ground out loads of 1-0's away and then were much more attacking and open at home.

Suspect we will stick mainly to the same formation but be a little more counter attacking, and in a few games (top six away) we might play an extra defender and go to 3 up front instead of 4.

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by Charnwood » Fri Jun 28, 2024 9:35 pm

To be honest I don’t think the answer to the question will become clear until we know what the squad looks like and we know what new players we have. I’m already assuming our two regular wing backs will be Ben Johnson and Leif Davis, but can I be sure of that given both are left backs. Mmmm, maybe I’ve got that wrong.

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by Bluemike » Fri Jun 28, 2024 9:46 pm

Personally I don't see McKenna ever going defensive

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by ITFC2024 » Fri Jun 28, 2024 10:08 pm

Problem is, we’re talking about world class players now. That’s what we’re up against. It’s great to have an attacking philosophy, but if we’re two or three goals down at half time there’ll need to be an adjustment. We all know Kieran has a brilliant attacking philosophy, but we haven’t really witnessed defensive adjustments during matches. I just hope he’ll be studying and practicing more defensive strategies for the Prem.

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by Mauswara » Fri Jun 28, 2024 11:08 pm

I feel he already has us play like that when need be, think back to the Leeds away game when he started the 2nd half set up to attack even though we were 0-3 down. When they got a 4th though he changed it so we shut up shop straight away.

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by shabba » Sat Jun 29, 2024 8:30 am

ITFC2024 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2024 10:08 pm
Problem is, we’re talking about world class players now. That’s what we’re up against. It’s great to have an attacking philosophy, but if we’re two or three goals down at half time there’ll need to be an adjustment. We all know Kieran has a brilliant attacking philosophy, but we haven’t really witnessed defensive adjustments during matches. I just hope he’ll be studying and practicing more defensive strategies for the Prem.
This is frankly patronising to KM, the guy is a top manager who has studied the game for over ten years. He knows more than we can dream about in regards to tactics.

He just got a team to punch way above their weight to get out of the championship, even in pre season vs a champions league side we didn’t get beat.

I get your point as the standard is WAY higher now - but let’s see what quality we can bring in to level ourselves up. I do have fears for this season but let’s just see how it goes. I suspect KM will make us a little more counter attacking.

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by marko69 » Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:13 am

ITFC2024 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2024 10:08 pm
but if we’re two or three goals down at half time there’ll need to be an adjustment.
You mean from your seat to the bus stop?

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by ITFC2024 » Sat Jun 29, 2024 12:12 pm

shabba wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2024 8:30 am
ITFC2024 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2024 10:08 pm
Problem is, we’re talking about world class players now. That’s what we’re up against. It’s great to have an attacking philosophy, but if we’re two or three goals down at half time there’ll need to be an adjustment. We all know Kieran has a brilliant attacking philosophy, but we haven’t really witnessed defensive adjustments during matches. I just hope he’ll be studying and practicing more defensive strategies for the Prem.
This is frankly patronising to KM, the guy is a top manager who has studied the game for over ten years. He knows more than we can dream about in regards to tactics.

He just got a team to punch way above their weight to get out of the championship, even in pre season vs a champions league side we didn’t get beat.

I get your point as the standard is WAY higher now - but let’s see what quality we can bring in to level ourselves up. I do have fears for this season but let’s just see how it goes. I suspect KM will make us a little more counter attacking.
I don’t think I am patronizing KM’s abilities, I am just going by what I’ve witnessed during several matches over the past few years. Basically most of the teams in the Prem will be a lot harder to score against, so I think it’s very unlikely we’ll win too many games if we concede too many goals. I could mention a few matches we’ve had under KM where we’ve conceded too many goals sometimes resulting in a ‘goalfest’ win, but more often than not resulting in draws or losses.

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by rossi » Sat Jun 29, 2024 12:20 pm

ITFC2024 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2024 10:08 pm
Problem is, we’re talking about world class players now. That’s what we’re up against. It’s great to have an attacking philosophy, but if we’re two or three goals down at half time there’ll need to be an adjustment. We all know Kieran has a brilliant attacking philosophy, but we haven’t really witnessed defensive adjustments during matches. I just hope he’ll be studying and practicing more defensive strategies for the Prem.
I think you have missed the point entirely - you don't win games without scoring goals.
Sitting back and hoping to hit the opponent on the break isn't really a strategy, it's a gamble.
So we don't need KM to switch to more defensive strategies for the PL, we just need defenders that can defend

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by hallamblue » Sat Jun 29, 2024 1:50 pm

WORD ^^^^^^ 👍

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by ITFC2024 » Sat Jun 29, 2024 2:28 pm

Hope you’re right

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by shabba » Sat Jun 29, 2024 6:19 pm

I very much get the point, know what you mean as I felt we were soft at the back - but it’s hard to know of that’s player issue or a tactics thing. Davis is like a left winger for example!

It’s also a bit like the reverse or England this euros - very slow and dull but they do look pretty solid and have the lowest goals against, lowest XG against etc of anyone. You could argue being hard to beat can work well, look at Everton - they didn’t score many but got s heap of clean sheets and 1-0 wins to keep them up

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by hallamblue » Sat Jun 29, 2024 6:30 pm

That is / was the classic Mick McCarthy approach . Be hard to beat . And was Wagners approach at narwich last season. Boring as hell to watch but in many ways very effective, especially if you nick a goal.

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by ITFC2024 » Sat Jun 29, 2024 11:39 pm

Just to make things clear, I am certainly NOT suggesting we regress to a McCarthyesque defensive strategy! I love our attacking style of football, and for the most part I don’t want that to change. All I’m trying to say, is that there may be times we need to be a bit more defensive. Do you get my point?

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by Bluemike » Sun Jun 30, 2024 7:55 am

My take on it is that by and large we will still adopt the same policy of playing attacking flair football, MOST of the time and especially against the teams deemed to be bottom half teams, at home I expect us to at least try and take the game to most teams, probably with the exception of the big five or six.

I do agree we will have to be more measured at times and definitely concede less freely than we did last season, this will hopefully be helped by having some better defenders arriving at the club. We need to learn how to see out games when clinging on to a slender lead.

At the end of the day our success over Two years has very much been down to the style of play we adopted as our trademark, playing out from the back, starting with Hladky who is top notch at it, drawing opponents on to us with what fans deem as dodgy passing around our box, we then play through them once the spaces have opened up, it's been so successful as we then attack in numbers.

Clearly this is going to be tougher against some of the best players in the world but we won't lose our identity, we just have to be even better at it and learn to defend when it breaks down, which it obviously does at times. Two or Three good, experienced defenders are essential, Ben Johnson is a good start, we now need at least One good CB, if Greaves or Rodon arrive we'll still need one more been there and done that kind of CB.

Looking at the likes of Flynn Downes really pleases me too as this type of player in alongside Morsy also tightens us up defensively without affecting the attacking side of our game as Downes does both, we may not get him but someone of that ilk and calibre is just what we need too.

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by shabba » Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:01 am

Spot on Mike.

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by ITFC2024 » Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:31 am

Bluemike wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2024 7:55 am
My take on it is that by and large we will still adopt the same policy of playing attacking flair football, MOST of the time and especially against the teams deemed to be bottom half teams, at home I expect us to at least try and take the game to most teams, probably with the exception of the big five or six.

I do agree we will have to be more measured at times and definitely concede less freely than we did last season, this will hopefully be helped by having some better defenders arriving at the club. We need to learn how to see out games when clinging on to a slender lead.

At the end of the day our success over Two years has very much been down to the style of play we adopted as our trademark, playing out from the back, starting with Hladky who is top notch at it, drawing opponents on to us with what fans deem as dodgy passing around our box, we then play through them once the spaces have opened up, it's been so successful as we then attack in numbers.

Clearly this is going to be tougher against some of the best players in the world but we won't lose our identity, we just have to be even better at it and learn to defend when it breaks down, which it obviously does at times. Two or Three good, experienced defenders are essential, Ben Johnson is a good start, we now need at least One good CB, if Greaves or Rodon arrive we'll still need one more been there and done that kind of CB.

Looking at the likes of Flynn Downes really pleases me too as this type of player in alongside Morsy also tightens us up defensively without affecting the attacking side of our game as Downes does both, we may not get him but someone of that ilk and calibre is just what we need too.
Yes thanks, that's what I am talking about.

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by marko69 » Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:39 am

^^ :lol: ^^ ….., its ok, 24……, I & no doubt the majority knew what you were talking about, dude.

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Re: Premier League Formation?

Post by arana peligrosa » Sun Jun 30, 2024 1:32 pm

Never really took to McKenna's set in stone 4-2-3-1 play. Bit of variation would be all well and good but it was invariably the same set-up each passing game. After a while you had to question the system but fact is it often worked for us and largely brought two promotions on the back of it. That said it wasn't a way for everyone.

Trying to think back to summer 2000 and what Burley would have employed on the field when starting off on the season that brought a fifth place finish. We would have played two in attack regular or at least changed formation or experiment at different times of the season. McKenna's idea of starting time and again with same lousy grouping wouldn't have been considered or used but thing is that's the way we're expected to continue in a few weeks on a return to top level.

I don't want no cautious approach for the whole nine months of it i.e. trying not to lose or just focus on avoiding relegation. We got teams like Liverpool coming first up where attack emphasis could really work for us or at least give it a go and use again for future fixtures. I don't know the entire squad situation for August and beyond as players have left and we still have some others to come in and feature so it leaves a puzzle as to what to ideally expect. The time and again system we've used over last 2, 3 years could work for us once more but first sign it's not going to adapt at the highest level then suggest the manager should look to another path to gain results. It's all hypothetical at present time but even now you kind of see where and when it's going to fail and McKenna will have to revert to a different, more unfamiliar system.

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