Most overrated album

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by marko69 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:26 pm

I think you are spot on with having to be there to experience it. If I had a penny for every time I've been told that I do not show enough respect to The Beatles, I'd be an as*hole Audi driver right now. I do understand that they re-shaped and changed the music world completely...... I just quite simply do not like the music they produced....., I also think Paul McCartney is a woeful singer. For me, they were in the right place at certainly the right time.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by Ohiotractorboy » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:12 am

Meet the Beatles...good stuff. Yellow Submarine? Oh Lord...

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by Andym » Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:45 am

Herforder is right; the impact of the Beatles was enormous. They were trendsetters in many ways, and innovators; they could afford to be, as they had such a huge, loyal fan base who would buy whatever they turned out so they didn't need to play it safe. That doesn't mean it was all brilliant stuff. I'm with Marko, McCartney has never appealed to me in any way. Lennon was the real innovator. And yes, A Day In the Life is superb. Not a huge Beatles fan, but they did change music enormously. Sgt. Peppers isn't all great by any means, but the development from the early pop of Please Please Me is huge. Far better than the Status Quo / T Rex type of band who find a formula and keep rehashing it endlessly. Or the Cliff Richard / Elvis types who started out as rebels but soon conformed to pop mediocrity.

So the Beatles deserve their place in music history in my opinion. But that doesn't mean we have to like it!

Been looking through my collection for Underrated albums and reminded myself that music is pretty well a personal diary - the "great" ones remind me of the time, place and people I was with at the time I first bought them. I occasionally dig out some old rock and roll stuff (Eddie Cochran etc) and enjoy it - he was another innovator, like Chuck Berry (a great performer and writer but a very unpleasant person) but they don't mean quite so much to me as they were slightly before my time.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by Andym » Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:02 am

Not sure what constitutes an underrated album; there are some raved about by the critics that no-one bought at the time (like Nick Drake’s 3 albums) or the ones that sold despite a poor critical reception (Derek & The Dominoes’ Layla).

My list of underrated albums below consists of those that I really love but are mostly relatively obscure. Probably not my top 30 albums of all time, but ones that usually make me wonder why they weren’t much bigger sellers. In approximately chronological order:
1967: The Who Sell Out. Their first great album. Complete with Radio London jingles, fake adverts and perfect Who single “I Can See For Miles.”
1968 The Zombies: Odessey & Oracle. Perfect pop, complete with mellotron for a bit of prog influence. Great songs, perfectly performed. And includes “Time of The Season.”
1968 Fairport Convention: Liege & Lief. The Folk Rock masterpiece.
1968 Kevin Ayers: Joy Of A Toy. His first solo after leaving Soft Machine. A variety of styles, but just wonderful. My favourite Kevin Ayers album although my favourite track was the later Stranger In Blue Suede Shoes.
1968 Love: Four Sail. Forever Changes is rightly regarded as their masterpiece, but this was the follow up with Arthur Lee and a completely new band. Great guitar lines and very underrated.
1969 Dory Previn: Mythical kings & Iguanas. A superb songwriter of some biting songs, good singer, great arrangements. Still reeling from her husband Andre leaving her for the younger Mia Farrow.
1969 Steve Tilston: An Acoustic Confusion. His first. Still performing today but an unknown folky masterpiece.
1969 Tonto’s expanding Headband: Zero Time. More synth experimenters. Did a lot of work with Stevie Wonder. No vocals, just 2 synths.
1972 The Bunch: Rock On. Fairporters and other folkies playing rock and roll classics. Richard Thompson proves what a versatile guitarist he is, and Sandy Denny & Linda Thompson singing When Will I Be Loved… amazing harmonies.
1972 Roxy Music: Roxy Music. Their first and best. In the days when they were experimental and daring, before Eno left.
1973 Kevin Coyne: Marjory Razorblade. One of my favourite songwriters, a double album of acute observations from a former social worker. Funny and so sad at the same time.
1974 Starry Eyed & Laughing. A great band, god knows why they weren’t bigger. Their second album was almost as good.
1974 Roy Buchanan: Second Album. A genius guitarist, pretty bluesy, very few vocals.
1976 Crack the Sky: Animal Notes. Varied but rocky. Cynical lyrics, great playing. Bigger in the States than here I think. Latr on went into more boring heavy rock territory.
1976 George Benson: Blue Benson. Only one vocal, just showcasing his great jazz guitar. So much better than the MOR sh*te he produced for so much of the time. A bit like Nat King Cole’s piano - a great jazz pianist but turned out so much dross.
1976 Michael Hurley, Jeffrey Frederick & the Clamtones and the Unholy Modal Rounders: Have Moicy. Just lunatic Americans having fun. Sort of folky / countryish. But makes me laugh and smile.
1976 John Otway & Wild Willy Barrett. Their first. Great songs, and Barrett’s playing is brilliant. Their second, Deep and Meaningless, is almost as good.
1976 Warren Zevon: Warren Zevon. His first. And still my favourite. Great songs, great arrangements from the man who had worked alongside Jackson Browne.
1979 Doll By Doll: Gypsy Blood. A great Scottish band that made 4 albums. This was the second. The first, Remember, was just as good. Jackie Leven went on to make loads of solo albums before he passed away. Should have been huge. Why did no one ever know about them?
1979 The Roches: The Roches. Twee harmonies but I love it. Witty songs from three sisters. With a bit of Robert Fripp guitar.
1981 d*ck Gaughan: Handful Of Earth. A folk masterpiece of love songs and political comment.
1981 Dr John: Dr. John Plays Mac Rebannack. My favourite pianist playing solo. Blues, jazz….just great.
1997 Brent Mason: Hot Wired. A country session guitarist, rarely recorded under his own name. Country / jazz licks.
2013 Jeffrey Lewis & Peter Stampfel: Hey Hey It’s The Jeffrey Lewis & Peter Stampfel Band. Two New Yorkers, Jeffrey has made a number of anti-folk albums, I love them all. Peter Stampfel, well into his 70s now, was half of the Holy Modal Rounders and played with the Fugs. Witty songs (Jeffrey Lewis is cutting, funny, and produces great rhymes) that pick me up whenever I’m down. Like every Saturday afternoon about 5 o’clock…

Don’t know if anyone has read this far. Anyone know any of these records? Do you like them as much as I do?

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by marko69 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:16 pm

Do not EVER quit this forum ^^^^! That's the stuff I want to read. Seriously, I thank you for the time taken to write that out. You are obviously passionate about music. And I like that your taste is so diverse. Must admit, I've only heard of George Benson and Roxy Music, but the others are obscure. But here is the difference ------> we have YouTube/iTunes these days, so I'll be checking out your list there Andy and reporting back. Cheers. :D

I think my view of underrated albums are work done by a "Rated" band but a certain piece of work wasn't recognised as highly as it should. I do bang on about Marillion a lot, they are my "Beatles" ....., seen them so many times with and without Fish. Hoping to get to their Weekender at the Leicester De Montford Hall this coming April. But certainly their 'Straws album is just absolute class, but it followed Misplaced Childhood and the "pop fans" didn't really rate it. But please, do not go and buy it....... I don't want the responsibility of ----->

"Hey Marko, I went and bought that Straws album. It's Shyte!" :lol:

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by herforder » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:15 pm

Andym wrote:Herforder is right; the impact of the Beatles was enormous. They were trendsetters in many ways, and innovators; they could afford to be, as they had such a huge, loyal fan base who would buy whatever they turned out so they didn't need to play it safe. That doesn't mean it was all brilliant stuff. I'm with Marko, McCartney has never appealed to me in any way. Lennon was the real innovator. And yes, A Day In the Life is superb. Not a huge Beatles fan, but they did change music enormously. Sgt. Peppers isn't all great by any means, but the development from the early pop of Please Please Me is huge. Far better than the Status Quo / T Rex type of band who find a formula and keep rehashing it endlessly. Or the Cliff Richard / Elvis types who started out as rebels but soon conformed to pop mediocrity.

So the Beatles deserve their place in music history in my opinion. But that doesn't mean we have to like it!

Been looking through my collection for Underrated albums and reminded myself that music is pretty well a personal diary - the "great" ones remind me of the time, place and people I was with at the time I first bought them. I occasionally dig out some old rock and roll stuff (Eddie Cochran etc) and enjoy it - he was another innovator, like Chuck Berry (a great performer and writer but a very unpleasant person) but they don't mean quite so much to me as they were slightly before my time.
Go along with all of that, Andy. The likes of Cochran, Berry, Holly etc were massive influences on all of those 60s groups - particularly the Beatles who, before Brian Epstein turned them into suited and booted mop tops, were actually an outstanding rock and roll band. Black leather and grease. JL famously said, if you had to rename rock and roll, you'd have to call it Chuck Berry.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by herforder » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:49 pm

Fantastic, totally eclectic, list, Andy. Instantly recognise a whole bunch of the albums you've selected. My musical centre of gravity is actually Delta Blues, and anything by Robert Johnson - a massive influence on Clapton, Hendrix, BB King et al, would have to be in my list. RJ was the inspiration for Clapton's Crossroads. The story being that RJ went down to a local crossroads at midnight and, in return for gaining genius guitar skills, sold his soul to the devil.

Similarly, Liege and Leaf. Was fortunate enough to have seen the FP line up, with the late Sandy Denny, in Oxford. Her voice had he ability to produce tears; it was simply beyond this world. Such a pity she passed so early. Who Knows Where the Time Goes? Another, later FP album, titled Babacombe Lee, would be on my list. It told the story of John Lee, the man they couldn't hang, and has some outstanding mandolin and fiddle playing in it.

The Kinks 'Village Green Preservation Society' would also get on my list.

Squeeze - 'Some Fantastic Place' - Tilbrook and Difford at their observational best. In the footsteps of the original storyteller - Ray Davies.

Enough for now! Really good, thought provoking, stuff!

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by Andym » Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:55 pm

Now we've put Bruce Springsteen in the overrated performer category, can we add U2? And Phil Collins? Saw a lovely quote once from Deke Leonard, who was guitarist and main man in a Welsh band called Man in the 70s. He said something along the lines of "Every time I hear about one of my musical contemporaries dying, I think, 'Why couldn't it have been Phil Collins?' "

He (Deke Leonard) also made me laugh when, at the end of an interview with Johnnie Walker on Sounds of The 70s, after JW had thanked him for his time, he replied, "Thank you too. You've made a happy man very old." :D

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by marko69 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:20 pm

Solo Phil Collins ------> not so good.

Genesis Phil Collins ------> Legend. No question.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by herforder » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:30 am

Very happy to add U2 and PC.

Never really got U2, including Joshua Tree, Bonio etc; whilst Phil Collins' solo stuff was bland and totally soporific. Undestand he's about to hit the road again, with his 15 year old son on drums. In a recent Sunday Times magazine interview he claims to have discovered alcohol, in a serious way, when he hit 55. Sadly listening to his musak drove millions of others to the bottle years earlier!

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by number 9 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:04 pm

Wow Andy, I have to admit I only recognize a couple of the artists you listed. I've led a sheltered life. :lol: Most of my music collection is now hidden in a bottom draw, but here's what I have on my iPhone. It's not the greatest collection, but you may like a few of them.

Velvet Underground: The Fully Loaded Edition
The Doors: The Very Best of the Doors
Crosby, Stills and Nash: Deja Vu
Brian Eno: Apollo-Atmospheres and Soundtracks
The Clientele: Bonfires on the Heath
Elbow: Cast of Thousands
Kurt Vile: Smoke Ring for my Halo
Modest Mouse: We Were Dead Before the Ship Ever Sank
My Morning Jacket: Circuital
Peter Gabriel: Shaking the Tree
One Eskimo: One Eskimo
Radiohead: The King of Limbs, In Rainbows, Amnesiac, OK Computer, The Bends
David Bowie: Let's Dance
Mumford & Sons: Sigh No More
Arcade Fire: The Suburbs
Baaba Maal: Television
Somogyi: Hopeless Romantic

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by Andym » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:23 pm

number 9 wrote:Wow Andy, I have to admit I only recognize a couple of the artists you listed. I've led a sheltered life. :lol: Most of my music collection is now hidden in a bottom draw, but here's what I have on my iPhone. It's not the greatest collection, but you may like a few of them.

Velvet Underground: The Fully Loaded Edition
The Doors: The Very Best of the Doors
Crosby, Stills and Nash: Deja Vu
Brian Eno: Apollo-Atmospheres and Soundtracks
The Clientele: Bonfires on the Heath
Elbow: Cast of Thousands
Kurt Vile: Smoke Ring for my Halo
Modest Mouse: We Were Dead Before the Ship Ever Sank
My Morning Jacket: Circuital
Peter Gabriel: Shaking the Tree
One Eskimo: One Eskimo
Radiohead: The King of Limbs, In Rainbows, Amnesiac, OK Computer, The Bends
David Bowie: Let's Dance
Mumford & Sons: Sigh No More
Arcade Fire: The Suburbs
Baaba Maal: Television
Somogyi: Hopeless Romantic

I'm an old man of 62 and my musical taste reflects that I guess. I think I have about 2000 vinyl albums and a similar number of CDs. I've highlighted the ones I have in my collection. I confess I gave up on Radiohead after OK Computer which I thought wasn't anywhere near as good as The Bends.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by herforder » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:53 am

That's a hugely impressive collection, Andy. Have you got a super-dooper cataloguing system, and plenty of physical storage space?

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by Andym » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:36 am

Yes, I use Music catalogue Master from Kix software, which is cheap and quite effective, as it is essentially a database showing every album and every track in my collection.

The records occupy the front porch, the CDs are in a spare bedroom. Most of it is also on a hard drive...about 400 albums to go...but it keeps me out of (too much) mischief. Unfortunately I find it impossible to walk past a charity shop without going in. But my favourite shop is Out Of Time in Ipswich which has a lot of vinyl at very good prices.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by herforder » Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:45 pm

Ah so - can see how looking after such a large music collection helps keep you on the straight and narrow!

When my wife's not looking, also love nothing more than browsing around Time Out. It's a little gem of a shop.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by marko69 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:15 am

Can't compete with you Andy! Absolutely Incredible music collection.

I have maybe 150 vinyl albums and around 350 CDs. All of those CDs are on my iTunes cloud now and the physical CDs are boxed and in the attic.

The sad thing about my collection is it's entirely of the same two genres; Metal and prog rock. Your collection is so diverse and that's a good thing. I'm one of those pains in the arse that doesn't give other music a chance......, listen to 40 seconds and say, "that's sh*t!" But at least I can admit it.

Prog takes me to a whole other place, I genuinely get lost in the music. Early Genesis, Yes, Jethro Tull, Marillion....., and even the album that opened the thread, Pink Floyds "The Wall". The music has everything and no other music even comes close to satisfying my ears! Many times I've been in my car or van, air guitaring some Yes or Genesis, the light has changed to green and the guy behind has to honk his horn! :lol:

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by Andym » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:08 am

marko69 wrote:Can't compete with you Andy! Absolutely Incredible music collection.

I have maybe 150 vinyl albums and around 350 CDs. All of those CDs are on my iTunes cloud now and the physical CDs are boxed and in the attic.

The sad thing about my collection is it's entirely of the same two genres; Metal and prog rock. Your collection is so diverse and that's a good thing. I'm one of those pains in the arse that doesn't give other music a chance......, listen to 40 seconds and say, "that's sh*t!" But at least I can admit it.

Prog takes me to a whole other place, I genuinely get lost in the music. Early Genesis, Yes, Jethro Tull, Marillion....., and even the album that opened the thread, Pink Floyds "The Wall". The music has everything and no other music even comes close to satisfying my ears! Many times I've been in my car or van, air guitaring some Yes or Genesis, the light has changed to green and the guy behind has to honk his horn! :lol:
I like quite a bit of prog, but a bit picky. I liked early Genesis, Jethro Tull too. Was never over keen on Yes (except the Yes Album). Earl Floyd were superb. I suppose it's an age thing, I tend to like the earlier stuff. Also liked Gentle Giant. Most of the Canterbury bands... Caravan, Egg, National Health, Gong... but not so keen on Soft Machine.

I suppose I like blues, folk, little bits of jazz (but not a huge jazz fan) more than anything. I'm a self-confessed music snob, generally avoiding the popular for the more obscure. Unfortunately that has led me to buying some absolute rubbish in my time.

For example, having raved about the first two John Otway & Wild Willy Barrett albums (which combine Otway's idiosyncrasies and witty song writing as well as some great covers) with Barrett's superb guitar work, yesterday I dug out Otway's first solo album after they split, "Where Did I Go Right?" Answer: He didn't. Awful rubbish.

I do get obsessive. A few years ago I thought I'd make myself a clock out of an old vinyl album. So I bought an album for 50p from a charity shop. Took it home and played it. Thought "This is too nice to make into a clock". Eventually I picked up a second copy of an album I really don't like at all and used that instead.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by herforder » Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:37 pm

Have a look at BBC 4's programme line up for tonight:

9pm - Pink Floyd Beginnings - 1967-72. Including band performances.

10pm - 60s Psychadelic Rock. Performances incl Cream, Hendrix and the Who. (All heroes to me. I own and play a Hendrix Strat - made by Fender's USA Custom Shop - and an exact copy of the guitar he used and set alight at Woodstock!

11pm - Story of Genesis.

For those not getting mullered in Newcastle, or not otherwise engaged, worth a look - or on catch up! Some genuine music history on show.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by Andym » Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:32 pm

herforder wrote:Have a look at BBC 4's programme line up for tonight:

9pm - Pink Floyd Beginnings - 1967-72. Including band performances.

10pm - 60s Psychadelic Rock. Performances incl Cream, Hendrix and the Who. (All heroes to me. I own and play a Hendrix Strat - made by Fender's USA Custom Shop - and an exact copy of the guitar he used and set alight at Woodstock!

11pm - Story of Genesis.

For those not getting mullered in Newcastle, or not otherwise engaged, worth a look - or on catch up! Some genuine music history on show.
Yes, I'll be watching...or recording.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by saint jude » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:23 am

To save a new thread and relevant to this discussion, the music industry lost another two names today.

Pete Burns

Lead vocalist with Dead or Alive, they had some short lived fame in the 1980's, most notably with 'You Spin Me Round'. Burns later featured on a variety of television programs including Big Brother and over time became widely recognized for his flamboyant behavior.

Bobby Vee

Long established singer and songwriter who found fame on both sides of the Atlantic. Most prominent in the 1960's with releases including The night has a thousand eyes and Take good care of my baby.

Rest in peace to both celebrated names.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by marko69 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:36 am

Certainly was shocked to hear about Pete Burns. Way too young at 57.

RIP to both.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by Andym » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:29 pm

One was a bit before my time. The other was after my time. But yes, way too young.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by marko69 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:51 pm

Andy......., you said further up the thread that you are 62? Burns was only 5 years younger than you, buddy. Definitely wouldn't regard him as "after" your time. Don't tell us you are 62 but act 82 Andy!! :D

Long story short......., few years ago was out having a Chinese with some friends......, my buddy, Mick was telling us all about his dad who at the time was 97 years old (and still alive today).....,
My wife said, "97, Mick? That's great. Good for him."
Mick, "Aye, he's still jumping around thinking he's 77!"

I laughed my a$$ off!

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by herforder » Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:01 pm

Very sad to lose both - RIP.

Bobby Vee, who I recall was one of those late 50's 'heart-throbs', and a notable ambassador for Brylcreem (remember that?!)' was in his mid 70s. Not old by today's standards; given that Chuck Berry, who is 90, is apparently going to issue a new album. (Jonny Be Incontinent?). Notable Bobby Vee track - The Night Has a Thousand Eyes. Sadly, I can recall his b&w TV appearances!

Pete Burns - a flamboyant character, who'll be missed. Never really listened to Dead or Alive. Now the latter, sadly.

Loved your little story btw, Marko. Age is just a number!

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by marko69 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:09 pm

herforder wrote:Loved your little story btw, Marko. Age is just a number!
It certainly is, Herford.

Overrated stuff....... Anything at all by Paul Weller.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by Andym » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:31 pm

marko69 wrote:
Overrated stuff....... Anything at all by Paul Weller.
[/quote]

I'd go along with that.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by herforder » Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:08 pm

I know it goes on all the time, because there's only so many combinations of notes and chords out there, but Weller was a master at nicking other artists' riffs. The man had no shame in gaining his cup full of fame!


(Add anything by Oasis to the over list - very poor man Beatles' tribute band!). IMHO of course.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by saint jude » Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:17 am

herforder wrote:I know it goes on all the time, because there's only so many combinations of notes and chords out there, but Weller was a master at nicking other artists' riffs. The man had no shame in gaining his cup full of fame!


(Add anything by Oasis to the over list - very poor man Beatles' tribute band!). IMHO of course.
One of the Gallaghers around the height of their "fame" considered the band 'bigger than God' if correct.

Christians and ecclesiastical societies would have begged to differ, and something believe taken from The Beatles themselves many years before. Sure it was Lennon who made the claim, possibly McCartney.

Some of the early album releases such as Definitely Maybe were arguably impressive, but still exaggerated to a vast degree by some critics and listeners.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by herforder » Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:57 pm

It was Lennon who, in an interview with British journalist Maureen Cleave in 1966, made the 'bigger than Jesus comment', which caused such anger and disdain - particularly across the US Bible Belt. He later claimed the comment had been taken totally out of context, when appearing before US journalists in a very highly-charged Press Conference later that year. But, for many, the damage had been done.

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Re: Most overrated album

Post by marko69 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:00 pm

Noel Gallagher is an absolute genius. Wrote ALL the Oasis stuff on his own, and the vast majority is top quality music. The Beatles had Lennon & McCartney and almost half of it is sh*t. What they are responsible for is paving the way for the future of music, which they deserve all the credit that they still get. There'd no doubt be no Oasis without first being a Beatles...... But Oasis made it all 100 times better.

All of the above is opinion and no doubt all will disagree. I actually can't stand the Beatles, massively overrated pish and spending all my days voicing this opinion, I'm used to people thinking "I've lost my mind." Don't get me started on the Paul McCartney and Wings back catalogue. PISH

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