Hillsborough Disaster - Justice at last.

[Charnwood]

Finally after 27 years justice for the families of the 96 victims.

May their families finally find peace and move on with their lives.

[arana peligrosa]

Was in Birmingham that day for the other semi final game and didn't realize the full extent of what had occurred until some time after the end of play. There was sporadic talk around the venue of an incident up at Sheffield but all assumed it was something of a benign nature and never could have envisaged the extent of what was to occur.

Took far too long for the families of the bereaved to obtain justice for the lives lost and if the South Yorkshire Police had been above competent that day and not behaved like amateurs, the whole tragic episode could have been averted. This of course was the road to the Taylor Report which would enforce all-seater stadia but by then, the damage had been done.

RIP the 96 and pleased for the families involved (if that is the operative word) that finally the right has prevailed and will bring closure to many on a horrendous afternoon for the game that will live with many forever.

[Andym]

Like so many tragedies involving human error, I could feel some sympathy for those who made the mistakes. I suspect it wasn't deliberate, just a terrible decision. What I can't abide is the lying that followed and been maintained ever since to cover up the error, and the blaming of others, particularly the fans, rather than admit they got it wrong.

[herforder]

Great credit and respect to the families and friends of those who so tragically lost their lives, for both the determination to secure justice and for conducting themselves with great courage and dignity.

The fact that, after all these years, they have received the justice they deserve won't lessen the pain of loss, but having any suggestion of blame removed may provide some comfort. Given the Inquest verdict, those families may now feel that some accountability is due.

[hallamblue]

Good news for the families involved but a part of me feels. Thank God for that. Now let it rest. Problem is I can now forsee a barage of civil claims against SY police force individuals ( are there any still alive??)

[charlton837]

I agree, glad justice has been served. I saw on the news that the families now want to sue 2 of the individual officers from the time. In my opinion they shouldn't do this, for their own benefit if nothing else.

They have got the justice they have been fighting for, for their own sake they should take this success and move on with their lives, if they try and sue individuals it just keeps that "bitterness" going and I don't think you can ever really move on from what was a tragic day. If it were me (and I know its easy to say) I would want to take comfort in knowing the truth is out, and that this is because of the way the families never gave up, never ever forget the people that lost their lives, but stop pursuing any further action against individuals too for their own sake, otherwise the fear is they will never really move on.

[trek5500]

Not sure how someone such as Trevor hicks could move on after losing both of his daughters at Hillsborough that day.
If the boot was on the other foot the police would do everything within their powers to bring someone to justice.

[hallamblue]

Powerful piece this. Read..........

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... are_btn_tw

[arana peligrosa]

Powerful piece this. Read..........

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... are_btn_tw

Unable to read at one attempt right now but for sure will give this full attention at a more suitable time.

Had a quick glance through and it's going to make for some interesting reading and survivors tales are always poignant and moving. Say one further time, it is - or was - an incident that so easily could have been averted with enough competence and free from fundamental error, and a travesty that the families involved had to wait a near 30 years for eventual justice and some level of closure.

[derick_ipsw]

Good news for the families involved but a part of me feels. Thank God for that. Now let it rest. Problem is I can now forsee a barage of civil claims against SY police force individuals ( are there any still alive??)

That is exactly what is has been about Money. Justice for the 96 bollocks they want compensation end off.

[lucy]

Good news for the families involved but a part of me feels. Thank God for that. Now let it rest. Problem is I can now forsee a barage of civil claims against SY police force individuals ( are there any still alive??)

That is exactly what is has been about Money. Justice for the 96 bollocks they want compensation end off.

I'm sure they would rather have their loved ones back then Money any day

[hallamblue]

Good news for the families involved but a part of me feels. Thank God for that. Now let it rest. Problem is I can now forsee a barage of civil claims against SY police force individuals ( are there any still alive??)

That is exactly what is has been about Money. Justice for the 96 bollocks they want compensation end off.

Hmm Im not so sure Derek. If you read that newspaper account vianthe link above, its the very first time Ive ever read detailed account from a survivor. It is utterly horrific and tbh you dont expect to go out to a public event and get killed due to abysmal police control of a crowd and an abject rexponse to a major incident which us happening in front of your eyes. If that was you /your family, you'd want compensation, but it would never be enough what ever amount of "money" you were awarded.

[Ohiotractorboy]

Rather cynical view, derick.

If you watch the 30 for 30 on Hillsborough, one theme that continually reverberates is the immediate shift of blame the police effected from themselves to the fans. That is started within 5 minutes of the event made me sick.

It comes very clear that money was not the driving factor here.

[Bluemike]

Good news for the families involved but a part of me feels. Thank God for that. Now let it rest. Problem is I can now forsee a barage of civil claims against SY police force individuals ( are there any still alive??)

That is exactly what is has been about Money. Justice for the 96 bollocks they want compensation end off.

Are you for real ?

[marko69]

How can anyone put an amount of cash on your loved one? Can't figure out how money can replace them. If it was any of my kids, I think I'd burn the money they offered in front of their faces, even if it was 100 million quid. (Which isn't enough by the way.)

[herforder]

Everyone is entitled to a view: those who feel the grief and sense of loss, those who care, those who show compassion and respect and those who clearly don't. Or, perhaps, get some kind of perverse pleasure from making controversial - but ultimately demeaning - statements, which most find offensive in the extreme?

[Charnwood]

Good news for the families involved but a part of me feels. Thank God for that. Now let it rest. Problem is I can now forsee a barage of civil claims against SY police force individuals ( are there any still alive??)

That is exactly what is has been about Money. Justice for the 96 bollocks they want compensation end off.

.... I'm not sure you're right there Derek, if it was just about money they'd have given up a long time ago. Clearly they knew they were right and wanted justice, I don't see much wrong with that, and if either of my daughters had been killed in the same way I'd want exactly the same.

If they do want compensation now what's wrong with that?.... I think they are fully entitled to it and given what they've been through over all these years huge sums should be involved and they shouldn't be begrudged it, after all had the truth come out 27 years ago compensation would have been paid and nobody would have blinked an eyelid.

I think the behaviour of the South Yorkshire police and in particular the named individuals within has been nothing short of disgraceful, and furthermore their dishonesty has continued over far too many years for nobody to be held to account. This has simply been one massive cover up.

How you can simply say "bollocks" is beyond me.

[marko69]

Nothing wrong with compensation. How do you put a price on it though?

[herforder]

Nothing wrong with compensation. How do you put a price on it though?

Very difficult, with no compensation enough for the loss of each life; rather for the pain and suffering caused to relatives as a direct result of the police's actions on that dreadful day; and subsequent refusal to accept responsibility for those flawed actions, which only compounded their suffering over so many years.

A starting point would be to look at the amount of tax payers' money (£ millions) that SY Police spent over the yeas trying to defend the indefensible. Sickening.

[arana peligrosa]

Read the provided link as promised from an earlier response and there's always a story you never learned or reports even today that provide an improved insight on before. The Hillsborough issue is an awkward point of conversation to many particularly regards the events of Heysel four years previous where Liverpool support was involved, and even the most innocuous comment can arise the wrong reaction, so to all intents and purposes, for some it's a stone best left unturned.

They played You'll Never Walk Alone at our game with Milton Keynes this last weekend by all accounts, but not at Hillsborough the day after the anniversary at our recent game in Sheffield (?). Guess it's to do with the timing of verdict and the justice received for families than anything else, but took the time to question.

[marko69]

The Hillsborough disaster may have been an awkward point of conversation before, but it's not now, Saint. It's been proved that it was a policing issue and the 96 who were crushed to death inside the stadium was due to incompetence on the outside. That's it.

[The Odious Mr Rossi]

The police personnel responsible for this tragedy should all be charged with and convicted of manslaughter, and all of them put away for a long time. Personally, I'd hang the lot of them.
Additionally, South Yorkshire police should repay the millions they have spent on this whole cover-up.
I do not think compensation is appropriate in this case though - how can you put a price on a human life?
In fact I do not believe in financial compensation under any circumstances - it is a horrible import from an American culture dominated by personal greed, and in my opinion our country is all the worse since we adopted it.

[arana peligrosa]

The police personnel responsible for this tragedy should all be charged with and convicted of manslaughter, and all of them put away for a long time. Personally, I'd hang the lot of them.
Additionally, South Yorkshire police should repay the millions they have spent on this whole cover-up.
I do not think compensation is appropriate in this case though - how can you put a price on a human life?
In fact I do not believe in financial compensation under any circumstances - it is a horrible import from an American culture dominated by personal greed, and in my opinion our country is all the worse since we adopted it.

Hanging would seem a bit drastic, and while that was abolished in the UK in the 1960's if correct and appreciate the anger the issue has caused - to so many with no direct link or association to the incident itself - unfortunately any course of action now won't bring back the deceased or remedy the situation.

You're right about the compensation and what good is any amount of money to the families involved at this late stage. The real tragedy is, this unfortunate episode could so easily have been averted on the day in question had the relevant authority figures showed enough sense and competence and not pushed further spectators into a section where it was evidently at over-capacity.

You got to believe this, along with Arsenal's (title) win at Anfield a few weeks thereafter, was ultimately the end of Liverpool's 20 year dominance of English "football" and the Mersey team were never the same again after the incident. That they've never been champions again since 1990 is perhaps no coincidence.

[marko69]

In fact I do not believe in financial compensation under any circumstances - it is a horrible import from an American culture dominated by personal greed, and in my opinion our country is all the worse since we adopted it.

Spot on, that ^ for sure.

We all know the police, or any of the other authorities, wouldn't have set out that day to be as incompetent as they were, they didn't think it would become as out of control like it did....... But the cover up just makes everyone sick. If you think about it, it would possibly be the second part of a murderers thoughts. Ok they genuinely didn't commit the murder, but they all sat down to discuss how they could squirm out of the situation......., it's f**king sick. And to be honest, in the hanging days, people were no doubt hung for less.

[Charnwood]

In fact I do not believe in financial compensation under any circumstances - it is a horrible import from an American culture dominated by personal greed, and in my opinion our country is all the worse since we adopted it.

Spot on, that ^ for sure.

We all know the police, or any of the other authorities, wouldn't have set out that day to be as incompetent as they were, they didn't think it would become as out of control like it did....... But the cover up just makes everyone sick. If you think about it, it would possibly be the second part of a murderers thoughts. Ok they genuinely didn't commit the murder, but they all sat down to discuss how they could squirm out of the situation......., it's f**king sick. And to be honest, in the hanging days, people were no doubt hung for less.

Even worse, sometimes innocent people were hung, which was probably the strongest case for abolishing it?

[marko69]

Certainly a discussion I've had many times and it usually ends up heated. Certain family members having suffered rape doesn't help my view on abolishment. Definitely not right that innocent people have been executed, (a very minute percentage of executions) but in this day and age, with science etc, a lot more people should be getting f**king executed in my opinion. But then would rapists and the like be executed? Probably not even though they are worse than murderers......, so probably best leaving it abolished. Keep the "human rights" fkers quiet at least.

[herforder]

In fact I do not believe in financial compensation under any circumstances - it is a horrible import from an American culture dominated by personal greed, and in my opinion our country is all the worse since we adopted it.

Spot on, that ^ for sure.

We all know the police, or any of the other authorities, wouldn't have set out that day to be as incompetent as they were, they didn't think it would become as out of control like it did....... But the cover up just makes everyone sick. If you think about it, it would possibly be the second part of a murderers thoughts. Ok they genuinely didn't commit the murder, but they all sat down to discuss how they could squirm out of the situation......., it's f**king sick. And to be honest, in the hanging days, people were no doubt hung for less.

Agree that the move towards the US litigation environment, based upon 'where there's blame, there must be a claim' culture, is odious. However, would not agree that financial compensation should never be paid. Thinking of cases of medical negligence, industrial injury, loss of life through the negligence of those entrusted to to preserve it.

(Giving the hanging debate a very wide berth!)

[marko69]

Medical negligence leading to being unable to work again, yes I'd agree with compensation. In fact any form of compensation whereby it helps the individual back to some type normality in life where they do not struggle is definitely acceptable.

I just can't figure out how, after 27 years, compensation is going to help the family members of Hillsborough victims. And what value of compensation is attached to that? Can't be sure, but I'm fairly certain that many of those families will feel that the truth finally coming out and their loved ones being freed from any blame whatsoever is compensation enough. But as Derick has alluded to, there will be some maybe wanting a new car. That's the way it is with some people.

[herforder]

The fact that it took 27 years to get justice was due entirely to SY Police's refusal to accept initial responsibility, and then to relentlessly cover up their negligence. The families of those killed had no powers to prevent or effect those decisions; so, for all those years, were also victims. If justice isn't time limited, then neither should be any entitlement to financial compensation - if that route is open to them, and they chose to pursue it. Whilst no price can adequately be placed on a life, providing compensation where that life has been prematurely ended by negligence - either deliberate or accidental - is an accepted part of the justice/legal system.

However, views on the moral implications clearly differ.

[marko69]

Whilst no price can adequately be placed on a life, providing compensation where that life has been prematurely ended by negligence - either deliberate or accidental - is an accepted part of the justice/legal system.

I understand the basics of the system, but that's my only issue......, valuing the compensation. Who agrees what amount of cash goes against a life? I wouldn't want the job because the figure doesn't exist.

Proper compensation would be some form of proof being found of individuals hatching stories, ......, telephone conversations etc etc. Find this and jail them. I suppose you could say well how long a jail sentence is worth a life. I do not know, but knowing the culprits were being punished would be so much better than cash compensation. I don't know, it's all opinions isn't it.