Sunderland up for sale.

[Charnwood]

Sunderland have confirmed that the League One club has been put up for sale by owner Stewart Donald.

The Black Cats have stated that it was pressure from upset fan groups which led to the board making their decision.

A joint fans' statement calling for the club to be sold immediately has led to confirmation of the story reported last week by BBC Radio Newcastle.

If only.....

[Andym]

They're 3 points below us and must be in with a good chance of making the playoffs.

Were awful when they came to Portman Road. Not sure if they've improved since.

But there are parallels with Ipswich. Fans thinking that a glorious past means they should be in a higher league. If they - like us - have found their level, accept it.

[marko69]

Really want to agree with you AndyM, but just can’t. Doesn’t compute even just a tiny little bit in my head. But, each to their own.

If a very large entity like Hibernian were in League One, I wouldn’t be accepting it, that’s 100% for sure. I’d definitely be signing that petition to get the incompetent people out. For absolute sure, guaranteed.

Mevans runs a tight ship and that’s good for the very existence of Ipswich Town.
But there ARE success stories. I for one hope & pray Sunderland get their ambitious owners just to show what could be possible if the right combination of people are in the door. Leicester City were languishing in League One not that long ago, and they’ve since won the EPL for Goodness sake, (RIP their owner) ....., and teams like AFC shitty Bournemouth are also testament to good ownership.
Sunderland are way too big for League One. Not their level and they’ll attract suitable people who BELIEVE higher than League One.

[hallamblue]

Here's the link .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51019630

Its going to be interesting to see how this pans out for Sunderland. It took 19 months for them to get their current owner in place . So hardly a quick process. Not sure what their current debt is, or what their Club's potential is. There are many factors that a would be owner (s) would be considering before parting with money to buy a football Club.

On the manager front, they were 6th in League One when they sacked their manager and replaced him, now they are mid table.

[Ricco]

Sorry Andy, really not meaning to dive on you here, it's been said by quite a few supporters and I'm glad Marko has got in first and probably put things better. We or Sunderland haven't found our level, it's preposterous, ambition is important in business as it is in football, it was acceptance of mediocrity that hurt us so badly under McCarthy.

You make Leicester believe their 'level' was lower Prem, upper Championship like everyone thought and they never would have won the thing, good case in point, Ipswich is not a dissimilar sized club to Leicester, but resign ourselves to League 1 and we'll stay there (at best!).

It's quite clear from the graph below that League 1 is not Sunderland's level, there are loads of clubs in the top couple of divisions that are far smaller. You can see Town get comfortably more than double the average attendance in this league and that figure actually puts us above the Championship average. The club have the supporters both local and worldwide that are a source of income for this club that make it far bigger than what it's achieving.

[Andym]

I accept all the above. But league 1 is where we are and current form suggests it's where we might stay. So if it's not our level, why not?
Can't blame ME. I've said for years that if our owner is only willing to fund at league 1 level then let's compete at that level. I'm not sure what else he or anyone else could do now without putting us at risk of breaking the financial salary restrictions. Do we think a new owner would do better now? They might have provided the funds to stop us bring relegated but that isn't my point. Now we have been relegated, what more can an owner do, bearing in mind more / better players will want higher wages and the wage bill is capped, even more so next season (as Sunderland have discovered).
So is it the manager not doing well enough? Or the players?
I'm not trying to start world war 3. I'll leave that to Trump. In a nutshell all I'm saying is - we are playing in league 1. We aren't ripping it up. Then by definition this is our level.
Of course I want us to be in a higher league. But in the McCarthy era we could only survive there by being mind-numbingly boring. Yes, clubs need to be ambitious. They have their ups and downs. The current situation is unusual for most Town fans because we haven't. We were a Championship side for so long. Hopefully we will.bounce back. But until we do, This is our level.

[Bluemike]

And to think people moaned about 17 years in the championship, we finally get out of it and they still aren't happy

[marko69]

Are you a life-long ITFC season ticket holder? I’m guessing not because something in my head is reminding me that you used to attend Kenilworth Road and watch Luton Town? I don’t know, can’t speak for everyone but maybe “acceptance” comes easier when a large wedge of yearly income isn’t going into the club. That’s not a dig. Honest.

I hear Hibs armchair fans moaning their faces off all the time. I don’t entertain their grief AT ALL. Part of my hard earned cash is going to Easter Road and if the club were p!$$ing around playing Stenhousemuir and Elgin City, I’d have something to say. Similar with some ITFC fans still in disbelief that they’re in the same league as Rochdale. (Only some fans as well? I don’t get it)
To be completely, 100% honest, if I was an ITFC ST holder, I’d have been kicked off of this site long ago. Such would’ve been my incessant “What’s with this mediocre Shyte, Mevans” posts.
From afar, I appreciate he saved the club from extinction 12 f**king years ago, (forever grateful) but ........

Fk knows.

Ah well. Fk it. This is the level then. Is this what negativity & depression feels like?

[Bluemike]

You're just bloody lucky you said Stenhousemuir and Elgin and not Forfar!!!!!

[arana peligrosa]

Are you a life-long ITFC season ticket holder? I’m guessing not because something in my head is reminding me that you used to attend Kenilworth Road and watch Luton Town? I don’t know, can’t speak for everyone but maybe “acceptance” comes easier when a large wedge of yearly income isn’t going into the club. That’s not a dig. Honest.

I hear Hibs armchair fans moaning their faces off all the time. I don’t entertain their grief AT ALL. Part of my hard earned cash is going to Easter Road and if the club were p!$$ing around playing Stenhousemuir and Elgin City, I’d have something to say. Similar with some ITFC fans still in disbelief that they’re in the same league as Rochdale. (Only some fans as well? I don’t get it)
To be completely, 100% honest, if I was an ITFC ST holder, I’d have been kicked off of this site long ago. Such would’ve been my incessant “What’s with this mediocre Shyte, Mevans” posts.
From afar, I appreciate he saved the club from extinction 12 f**king years ago, (forever grateful) but ........

Fk knows.

Ah well. Fk it. This is the level then. Is this what negativity & depression feels like?

Not caused by "football". Triggered for tangible reasons away from the game. I get frustrated / pissed off with results and scores but depression is too extreme for what is largely trivial compared with other focus. Negativity possibly, depends how you interpret the latter.

Back on topic and who stated Sunderland got a glorious history. No offense but one FA Cup win (or two for the pedants) and supplying Norwich their only cup victory in some 50 years. Not up to much and they haven't been in all truth.

Doesn't state what price is offered for buying the club. I'd like to think of them as a big or substantial club but then you got Newcastle, Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday et cetera as close rival teams that kind of blows that theory out the water to some extent.

[Andym]

Are you a life-long ITFC season ticket holder? I’m guessing not because something in my head is reminding me that you used to attend Kenilworth Road and watch Luton Town? I don’t know, can’t speak for everyone but maybe “acceptance” comes easier when a large wedge of yearly income isn’t going into the club. That’s not a dig. Honest.

You are right. I was a season ticket holder at Luton until I moved away 48 years ago. I've only been a season ticket holder at Ipswich for about 17 years (That's a guess).

I'm being thick, I don't understand what you're saying about income not going into the club.

I'm certainly not depressed about it. I'd be happy to watch decent football at any level. Happy to admit I was one who said I'd rather be relegated if we could compete and play decent football rather than survive on the Championship with boring football.

I'm not "accepting" anything other than we are in League 1 playing league 1 football against league 1 opposition with league 1 funding. Our past and our relatively large support doesn't mean we deserve to be any higher.

[marko69]

Well, I see the "supporter" and the "fan" being two different things but maybe that's because I've been a ST Holder for 37 years and it's probably a silly monetary thing. Certainly not saying any opinion should rate higher or lower than the other. But like ANY product you "consistently" decide to purchase; you want it to be good. And because Hibs & Ipswich both rate in the higher end of the countries divisions, (not Ipswich of late) the price of ST's are higher. This in itself would be the thorn in my side playing English League One football........... AND..........., bring winless in feckin eons!

This idea of "not deserving" and "no divine right" thinking needs to be binned also. People should believe the club they've "supported" for many years are deserving of better. If anyone here believes in God; on the first day, he created light -----> the sun........ and it shines on Leith........ That’s a Divine Right? No?

But at the end of the day, Andy, (its midnight, no sun, only muggers, especially in Leith) ..... I agree that acceptance is probably all the supporters and fans can do. What’s happened at Sunderland is fairiy unique.

[hallamblue]

You're just bloody lucky you said Stenhousemuir and Elgin and not Forfar!!!!!

He wouldn’t stoop THAT low

[Ricco]

Well I think this discussion just perfectly demonstrates ambiguity more than anything else!! I think the only thing you're saying which is confusing others Andy (or maybe just me), is that I think you're suggesting a clubs current on field ability represents it's 'level'? But if that were true you could say that for just about every team. If Liverpool were relegated twice on the bounce through sheer bad luck and injuries, you wouldn't then say they've found their 'level'.

Just think of Evans' being our bad luck and Roy Keane our injury... I know we're a bigger club than League 1 and until our attendances drop below about 8k there's no way I'd reconsider that view.

I think everyone agrees that on recent form (last 18 months) Town DESERVE to be in League 1, that is very different to believing they SHOULD be in League 1 if you look at the bigger picture and extend it further back in time and in to the future. Being a bigger club in the past doesn't mean you deserve or should be at a higher level, but it does help with current fan base and finances.

[number 9]

If we don’t get promoted this season, attendances could very well drop below 8k. I certainly don’t think we belong in League One, and quite frankly it’s been hard to embrace. I can only wish that ME would sell the club to a consortium willing to invest. I’m thankful for ME saving the club, but his cautious business model has a lot to do with our current position. No one can realistically argue that fact. (Cue Bluemike! )

[marko69]

Coupling up the last two posts; based on Mevans business model, the club no doubt deserve to be in League One....... And that's got absolutely nothing to do with saving the club.

The regular, persistent, 17 years in the championship supporters, do not deserve to be watching League One football.

Yeovil would be a good example fitting of the "no divine right" idea. They were conference......, rose to the Championship, fell back to the conference or Lg2 or wherever. They really haven't got a Divine Right for anything at all.

[Bluemike]

Its not just down to Evans being cautious as to why we are where we are, he was shafted by Keane, Jewell & Hurst to name but Three, some won't agree with it but his address to the fans some time back outlined clearly why he cannot invest much more than he does, I know some don't accept it and never will but that's where we are. To be honest would we not all be cautious having been let down time and time again ? The one that didn't shaft him was Mick McCarthy who also had us in the right half of the championship nearly every season but the fans got fed up and wanted him gone. Those who said "be careful what you wish for" were slapped down, well we are where we are now and it's still not good enough even though many of the "wise guys " said I'd happily take League One if it means getting rid of MM , what bullshit, it was hot air spouted at the time and now many can't handle the League One experience cus we arent top and ripping it up.

[Ricco]

I'd still rather be where we are now as a club than where we were with Mccarthy, call me crazy.

I'm not disagreeing that management has been bad, but the one common denominator under all those managers was Evans and his lackies. I'm not placing blame, but we are not privy to those relationships, or what players were requested, who made the final decision on selling / buying and business decisions, contracts etc etc. There's a lot we don't know and I think it's far far too easy to blame managers when the fundamental core running of the club continues to avoid the magnifying glass.

[Andym]

Its not just down to Evans being cautious as to why we are where we are, he was shafted by Keane, Jewell & Hurst to name but Three, some won't agree with it but his address to the fans some time back outlined clearly why he cannot invest much more than he does, I know some don't accept it and never will but that's where we are. To be honest would we not all be cautious having been let down time and time again ? The one that didn't shaft him was Mick McCarthy who also had us in the right half of the championship nearly every season but the fans got fed up and wanted him gone. Those who said "be careful what you wish for" were slapped down, well we are where we are now and it's still not good enough even though many of the "wise guys " said I'd happily take League One if it means getting rid of MM , what bullshit, it was hot air spouted at the time and now many can't handle the League One experience cus we arent top and ripping it up.

I agree completely. But I'm still happier in league 1 than with MM. I never expected us to rip it up.

[Bluemike]

No you didn't and you've always been true to your word about good football over results so fair play. I think I'm entitled to be pissed off at League One football seeing as I do pretty much every game home and away but I'm not pissed off, I don't want to be in League one but bloody hell its light years away from last season's dross when it comes to enjoying saturdays again, from the atmosphere at home games to the away day support, the feelgood factor in the away pubs, its a different level and yes we are on a bad run but when we were doing well prior to the bad run no bugger even gave a thought as to what league we are in during the 90 minutes. We are fans of our club, supporters through thick and thin, not glory hunters that are only interested when we're winning and absent when we aren't.

[Ricco]

Great to hear that Mike, and it really is great to see the support is still there and in people's hearts, the last few years had got me worried.

I too didn't expect great things this season and was trying to stop people getting carried away when we made the start we did, still hoping though.

[Mach_Polish_Blue]

They're 3 points below us and must be in with a good chance of making the playoffs.

Were awful when they came to Portman Road. Not sure if they've improved since.

But there are parallels with Ipswich. Fans thinking that a glorious past means they should be in a higher league. If they - like us - have found their level, accept it.

What on bloody earth are you talking about? To accept League One as this is 'our level'? The level in which we hadn't been for 62 years and the reason of being here this season is the destructive Evans' policy.

If we had a proper owner that cared about our club we wouldn't be at this level.

Spare us comments like that. Please ! I know we have a freedom of speech but you're insulting us by saying this.

[Mach_Polish_Blue]

Seeing what Sunderland fans have done makes me red of jealousy and angry. The fans of other clubs aren't shy from voicing their opinions. They stand up and fight for their club, not being like Ipswich fans and sit back and watch as it sinks into the abyss.

Sunderland fans.....they could have done Ipswich and said: 'Donald puts in a few millions a year to keep us afloat blah blah blah, we have no alternative blah blah blah, buy the club yourself if you are unhappy blah blah blah'

Not only Sunderland. There are also Charlton fans. A few years of having voiced their anger over the way club was run by their former owner. Again just like Sunderland they could have done Ipswich and said: 'Roland Duchatelet puts in a few millions a year to keep us afloat blah blah blah, we have no alternative blah blah blah, buy the club yourself if you are unhappy blah blah blah'

Ipswich? Marcus put is a few millions, there is no buyer at the moment, there are worse owners , get behind the club etc etc. No pressure on Evans whatsoever , 'lovely' Ipswich fanbase.

If it wasn't for the Suffolk not making a fuss mentality Evans would have to face fans' anger. The fans of Sunderland or Charlton would have let him know their feelings......but this is smashing, easy going Ipswich, lovely Marcus will say some 'nice' words that 'make a sense' in his next statement and all will be groovy for some.

I'm not saying that Sunderland and Charlton are going to have a better future. Time will tell. They at least have a hope and excitement whereas we keep drifting into the oblivion.

[hallamblue]

I take it you’ve written to the Club to register your grievance with the owner, manager and directors then have you Mach? Maybe even suggested to the Club what they should do about Evans and his input to date, or what the Club should now be actively doing different?

[Ricco]

I think a single bit of post would most likely be lost among Mevans' numerous HMRC enquiry letters.

It takes a horde to make a noise and I agree with Mach that things would have to be far worse at Ipswich than other clubs for fans to start kicking up a fuss.

[Bluemike]

And that's a bad thing Ricco? Do we really want to go down the route of being one of those clubs ? I don't really want to see it, historically we are better than that. Those clubs have all by and large had years in the wilderness, I'm still hopeful ours is one season which proves to be ones step back to take Two or Three forwards.

[Ricco]

No I don't think it's a bad thing, I'd hate to be part of a club where everything is anger, aggression and hatred as some are, but there has to be a line and if a club is slipping in to the abyss, then supporters can and should stand up to save it. We're not there yet, but I can see scenarios where Evans gets worse and is unable/unwilling to sell the club, I don't want supporters to stand idly by and let that happen.

[MasseyFerguson]

I am really annoyed that we are in this division and am desperate for us to go back up this season.

Yes, we deserve to be here on current form and it is arguable that we should have been here a few years ago. McCarthy's brand of football was mind numbingly boring but it was effective in keeping us comfortably in the Championship. But this is not our natural level. This temporary situation is intolerable to me.

I will never entertain the idea that we should accept where we are. I may be wearing blue tinted glasses but we should, and should always, be better than EFL One.

[marko69]

I will never entertain the idea that we should accept where we are. I may be wearing blue tinted glasses but we should, and should always, be better than EFL One.

All of your post was spot on, but that part really is spot on.

One theory is the age generation thing. Ipswich Town have always been a higher up club thanks to the late greats Sir Alf & Sir Boaby!
Similar to me thinking Bournemouth will always be Division 4.

[Charnwood]

I will never entertain the idea that we should accept where we are. I may be wearing blue tinted glasses but we should, and should always, be better than EFL One.

All of your post was spot on, but that part really is spot on.

One theory is the age generation thing. Ipswich Town have always been a higher up club thanks to the late greats Sir Alf & Sir Boaby!
Similar to me thinking Bournemouth will always be Division 4.

After their performance yesterday Bournemouth will find it mighty difficult to stay in the Premier League this season unless there’s a massive improvement. Watford wiped them off the park.