League 1 - Charlton Athletic vs Ipswich Town Preview & Matchday Thread

[Mariner67]

We drew 4-4 at Derby once when we led 1-4 at half time.

I can’t think of any others but I’m sure there will be.

Yes I remember that,

[Andym]

Blame Walton for a lot today

I don't, Mike - I don't blame the players for making mistakes. If they were good enough not to make a mistake, then they would be playing higher up the pyramid than the third tier.

I know I'm going to get lambasted for this, but I don't care, because I lay the blame squarely at the manager. Not necessarily for his rotation policy (which I still maintain is not a good one for this level), neither for his insistence on making multiple substitutions just because he can (for me, the game turned today when he made the triple substitution, although in fairness Ladapo should have been played from the start).

To throw away a 2-goal lead once is poor, to throw it away twice in the same game is unforgiveable, to throw away a 2-goal lead 3 times in 2 games indicates that something is very wrong.

To put it simply, I think KM is guilty of overthinking the game. We're not Man Utd or Spurs, at the top level and with a squad of superstars. We're Ipswich, playing in the third tier. Admittedly we have one of the best squads at that level, but it's still the third tier.

At the start of this thread, there was a certain amount of postulating about whether we played 3 at the back or 4. We certainly seem to always start with 3, but we seem to revert to 4 during some games. I paid special attention today, and it seemed to me that we changed it at least 8 times. That's what I mean about overthinking the game - players at this level are simply not good enough to make such changes so often. It ends up with a defence that doesn't know what they should be doing or whom they should be marking. Decide your system, pick your best team to fit that system, and stick to it for the whole game unless either injuries or going 2 goals behind means a change is required.

I think there’s quite as bit of truth there. I am still delighted with the manager, I think he has worked miracles. I think back to his appointment and how he got the same squad playing infinitely better football.
As I’ve said once or twice before, I think our style of play is less good than it was - less crisp short passing, more long high ball that we often fail to win.
But I think we need to remember that our squad largely consists of experienced players. The manager lacks experience. He will make mistakes. But I’m still fully behind him and still enjoy watching - even the last 3 or 4 when we’ve been less impressive - more than I have for years.
Had Walton not pushed the second goal straight back into open play, or come forward and gone back for the fourth getting caught in no man’s land, we probably would have won. And then we wouldn’t be criticising so much.

[arana peligrosa]

If I / you / we, can rise above the clear disappointment of this closing game you got to admit it would have been something of a real thrill for neutrals and fans of both teams alike. The League isn't the best, it's not where you want to be, but credit where it's due what just passed would have been a real good advert for the division. Haven't seen highlights as yet but sure as hell will catch up when the time arises, a second viewing (thereafter) seems something of a must.

The Walton issue, I don't see what's gone wrong with him in recent weeks. Conceded six on a debut but has redeemed himself considerably up until recent time by easily becoming one of the very best outside the top two leagues. Seems he's just not his usual high standard of late and a number of high profile errors have become prevalent. I don't know why this is but guess Hdlaky should get a chance to feature soon although McKenna will have eyes on the situation and make amendments as he sees fit.

We got the attacking potential and goals factor there's little doubt about it, problem being at the other end of the field some doubts could be creeping in but on the face of it, other than today and Port Vale how often does the team concede three or four goals in one fixture.

The added time was a mystery. Not quite on a plateau with Jimmy Hoffa and Atlantis but where the hell did the game official find nearly ten minutes of additional play to put on. We were two goals ahead will into added time and they scored two themselves to steal a point from it ? Seriously, what the f*ck.

Looking forward to viewing game highlights some time soon. All right we threw it away late on, it's a frustrating score (in so many words) and the discussion will run far and wide. SWFC got a win to remain close behind and Plymouth got a game tomorrow or Monday. Someone said its more of a loss than a draw but while concur with it by all means , you got to believe this season really IS our chance or time to make it back to higher league status.

[hallamblue]

But is the keeper shaky because his centre backs in front of him are shaky ? They don’t command our defensive area , don’t command high balls coming into that area, don’t clear the ball away from our area, ( preferring to “ play it out in a passing back and forth across the front or even IN the 18 yard area).

We are not bloody Barcelona, and we are not playing in the Champions League. It’s division THREE!

I don’t think McKenna overthinks things, I think he gets the team to “overplay” things. Sometimes a boot it in to row Z is what’s required, or shoot on sight at the other end of the pitch .

Todays result is frankly , bloody criminal. It won’t end until we get better centre backs in my humble opinion. But if we don’t do it with this manager and this squad ( defence to be sorted in January), then we’ll never bloody do it!

[mendipblue]

But is the keeper shaky because his centre backs in front of him are shaky ? They don’t command our defensive area , don’t command high balls coming into that area, don’t clear the ball away from our area, ( preferring to “ play it out in a passing back and forth across the front or even IN the 18 yard area).

We are not bloody Barcelona, and we are not playing in the Champions League. It’s division THREE!

I don’t think McKenna overthinks things, I think he gets the team to “overplay” things. Sometimes a boot it in to row Z is what’s required, or shoot on sight at the other end of the pitch .

Todays result is frankly , bloody criminal. It won’t end until we get better centre backs in my humble opinion. But if we don’t do it with this manager and this squad ( defence to be sorted in January), then we’ll never bloody do it!

I think you may find Burgess will come in for Edmundson for the Cheltenham League game.

[valleyroad]

Blame Walton for a lot today

I don't, Mike - I don't blame the players for making mistakes. If they were good enough not to make a mistake, then they would be playing higher up the pyramid than the third tier.

I know I'm going to get lambasted for this, but I don't care, because I lay the blame squarely at the manager. Not necessarily for his rotation policy (which I still maintain is not a good one for this level), neither for his insistence on making multiple substitutions just because he can (for me, the game turned today when he made the triple substitution, although in fairness Ladapo should have been played from the start).

To throw away a 2-goal lead once is poor, to throw it away twice in the same game is unforgiveable, to throw away a 2-goal lead 3 times in 2 games indicates that something is very wrong.

To put it simply, I think KM is guilty of overthinking the game. We're not Man Utd or Spurs, at the top level and with a squad of superstars. We're Ipswich, playing in the third tier. Admittedly we have one of the best squads at that level, but it's still the third tier.

At the start of this thread, there was a certain amount of postulating about whether we played 3 at the back or 4. We certainly seem to always start with 3, but we seem to revert to 4 during some games. I paid special attention today, and it seemed to me that we changed it at least 8 times. That's what I mean about overthinking the game - players at this level are simply not good enough to make such changes so often. It ends up with a defence that doesn't know what they should be doing or whom they should be marking. Decide your system, pick your best team to fit that system, and stick to it for the whole game unless either injuries or going 2 goals behind means a change is required.

Losing a 2 goal lead twice in a match is down to players. Pure and simple. No professional football team should let that happen.
Also you can't play the same side each game these days due to the number of games, fitness levels of players and the intensity of the games today. Its a marathon not a sprint.

[Andym]

But is the keeper shaky because his centre backs in front of him are shaky ? They don’t command our defensive area , don’t command high balls coming into that area, don’t clear the ball away from our area, ( preferring to “ play it out in a passing back and forth across the front or even IN the 18 yard area).

We are not bloody Barcelona, and we are not playing in the Champions League. It’s division THREE!

I don’t think McKenna overthinks things, I think he gets the team to “overplay” things. Sometimes a boot it in to row Z is what’s required, or shoot on sight at the other end of the pitch .

Todays result is frankly , bloody criminal. It won’t end until we get better centre backs in my humble opinion. But if we don’t do it with this manager and this squad ( defence to be sorted in January), then we’ll never bloody do it!

I don’t have a problem with playing it out from the back. Yes, occasionally wet need to put a foot through it but by and large is working.
The aerial bit is a problem. We actually had a defender score a header from a corner today, and a C second headed goal. But overall we struggle in the area so both ends of the pitch. Walton has got us out of trouble on many occasions this season, I don’t remember the last keeper we had who commands the area so well. I agree that some of his apparent loss of confidence might stem from what’s in front of him. They aren’t bad defenders, particularly on the floor. But not so great in the air. Walton came for the 4th goal because he knows that - but then tried to get back, and got caught as the header looked over him. If he’d have stayed out he works have saved it. So was it a mistake or a lack of trust in those in front of him?

[marko69]

Losing a 2 goal lead twice in a match is down to players. Pure and simple. No professional football team should let that happen.

Yep, spot on and agree also with Dazza in that KMcK should give them a proper rollicking. Yes, he may be overthinking the game......, but on the field of play from the 90th minute to the 99th minute ----- >> that is on the players. Hopefully they were given an ear-bashing.

Need to see more highlights re Walton but not so sure dropping the guy would be productive at this stage of the season. Asking Hanky to step in and help sustain League status would be masses of pressure. IF its defensive "headless chicken" issues, then help Walton out by sorting that out.

Certainly cannot be too critical. The club are in the best "nick" for YEARS......, should be enjoying it. I personally believe big lessons will be learnt from today. Expect a few "thumpings" happening in the near future......., in favour of Ipswich.

[valleyroad]

Losing a 2 goal lead twice in a match is down to players. Pure and simple. No professional football team should let that happen.

Yep, spot on and agree also with Dazza in that KMcK should give them a proper rollicking. Yes, he may be overthinking the game......, but on the field of play from the 90th minute to the 99th minute ----- >> that is on the players. Hopefully they were given an ear-bashing.

Need to see more highlights re Walton but not so sure dropping the guy would be productive at this stage of the season. Asking Hanky to step in and help sustain League status would be masses of pressure. IF its defensive "headless chicken" issues, then help Walton out by sorting that out.

Certainly cannot be too critical. The club are in the best "nick" for YEARS......, should be enjoying it. I personally believe big lessons will be learnt from today. Expect a few "thumpings" happening in the near future......., in favour of Ipswich.

Agree, today could be a silver lining. Dressing room will be a melting pot with a lot of home truths being delivered. I expect Town to kick on from today.

[rossi]

Losing a 2 goal lead twice in a match is down to players. Pure and simple. No professional football team should let that happen.

Yep, spot on and agree also with Dazza in that KMcK should give them a proper rollicking. Yes, he may be overthinking the game......, but on the field of play from the 90th minute to the 99th minute ----- >> that is on the players. Hopefully they were given an ear-bashing.

Need to see more highlights re Walton but not so sure dropping the guy would be productive at this stage of the season. Asking Hanky to step in and help sustain League status would be masses of pressure. IF its defensive "headless chicken" issues, then help Walton out by sorting that out.

Certainly cannot be too critical. The club are in the best "nick" for YEARS......, should be enjoying it. I personally believe big lessons will be learnt from today. Expect a few "thumpings" happening in the near future......., in favour of Ipswich.

Agree, today could be a silver lining. Dressing room will be a melting pot with a lot of home truths being delivered. I expect Town to kick on from today.

ah, but we're not playing again today, we're not playing for another 9 days and that's in the cup.
As for today being a silver lining, try telling people that if we miss out on promotion by a couple of points.

[number 9]

Defense has been solid for a large part of the season. Sounds like Walton is beginning to crack, maybe? Does he need a break? I’m sure he’ll have trouble sleeping tonight after 4 goals. “Night Johnboy!”

[rossi]

Blame Walton for a lot today

I don't, Mike - I don't blame the players for making mistakes. If they were good enough not to make a mistake, then they would be playing higher up the pyramid than the third tier.

I know I'm going to get lambasted for this, but I don't care, because I lay the blame squarely at the manager. Not necessarily for his rotation policy (which I still maintain is not a good one for this level), neither for his insistence on making multiple substitutions just because he can (for me, the game turned today when he made the triple substitution, although in fairness Ladapo should have been played from the start).

To throw away a 2-goal lead once is poor, to throw it away twice in the same game is unforgiveable, to throw away a 2-goal lead 3 times in 2 games indicates that something is very wrong.

To put it simply, I think KM is guilty of overthinking the game. We're not Man Utd or Spurs, at the top level and with a squad of superstars. We're Ipswich, playing in the third tier. Admittedly we have one of the best squads at that level, but it's still the third tier.

At the start of this thread, there was a certain amount of postulating about whether we played 3 at the back or 4. We certainly seem to always start with 3, but we seem to revert to 4 during some games. I paid special attention today, and it seemed to me that we changed it at least 8 times. That's what I mean about overthinking the game - players at this level are simply not good enough to make such changes so often. It ends up with a defence that doesn't know what they should be doing or whom they should be marking. Decide your system, pick your best team to fit that system, and stick to it for the whole game unless either injuries or going 2 goals behind means a change is required.

Losing a 2 goal lead twice in a match is down to players. Pure and simple. No professional football team should let that happen. Depends on how they are being told to play
Also you can't play the same side each game these days due to the number of games, fitness levels of players and the intensity of the games today. Its a marathon not a sprint. Sorry, but that's absolute rubbish. Teams 40 years ago managed 2 or 3 games a week with the same line-up and no problems at all. With the advances in fitness training there is absolutely no reason why they can't do the same now

[number 9]

^^^
Well they are mostly millennials, Rossi! They haven’t had the proverbial kick in the arse that we had lol!

[Andym]

Yes they are fitter but they probably cover much more ground than they used to.

[Charnwood]

I don’t buy all that Rossi. I think the game is played now with a lot more pace and intensity than it was 40 years ago. It’s also well documented by Sir Bobby Robson that the only reason we didn’t win the league in the early 80’s was because we were playing too many games using the same players and needed a larger squad so players could be rested.

We dropped points today mainly because we fluffed a couple of chances where it was easier to score than miss, and a couple of defensive errors where individuals lost concentration. Charlton must take some credit too for their fighting spirit and never giving up.

We knew this was potentially a tricky fixture with a draw the most likely outcome, after all Charlton are the draw specialists in League 1 with 50% of their matches ending this way. We also seem to have forgotten they best Plymouth 5-1 earlier in the season which was Argyle’s largest defeat.

[valleyroad]

I don't, Mike - I don't blame the players for making mistakes. If they were good enough not to make a mistake, then they would be playing higher up the pyramid than the third tier.

I know I'm going to get lambasted for this, but I don't care, because I lay the blame squarely at the manager. Not necessarily for his rotation policy (which I still maintain is not a good one for this level), neither for his insistence on making multiple substitutions just because he can (for me, the game turned today when he made the triple substitution, although in fairness Ladapo should have been played from the start).

To throw away a 2-goal lead once is poor, to throw it away twice in the same game is unforgiveable, to throw away a 2-goal lead 3 times in 2 games indicates that something is very wrong.

To put it simply, I think KM is guilty of overthinking the game. We're not Man Utd or Spurs, at the top level and with a squad of superstars. We're Ipswich, playing in the third tier. Admittedly we have one of the best squads at that level, but it's still the third tier.

At the start of this thread, there was a certain amount of postulating about whether we played 3 at the back or 4. We certainly seem to always start with 3, but we seem to revert to 4 during some games. I paid special attention today, and it seemed to me that we changed it at least 8 times. That's what I mean about overthinking the game - players at this level are simply not good enough to make such changes so often. It ends up with a defence that doesn't know what they should be doing or whom they should be marking. Decide your system, pick your best team to fit that system, and stick to it for the whole game unless either injuries or going 2 goals behind means a change is required.

Losing a 2 goal lead twice in a match is down to players. Pure and simple. No professional football team should let that happen. Depends on how they are being told to play
Also you can't play the same side each game these days due to the number of games, fitness levels of players and the intensity of the games today. Its a marathon not a sprint. Sorry, but that's absolute rubbish. Teams 40 years ago managed 2 or 3 games a week with the same line-up and no problems at all. With the advances in fitness training there is absolutely no reason why they can't do the same now

Yep 40 years is just about how far ahead of you that the current manager is in his understanding of the game.
If you can't see the change in the game over the last 40 years then kinda pointless debate.
Ipswich have a fine young manager who is doing just fine. No need to criticise him constantly just to be different

[Bluemike]

I think where KM is getting it wrong at times is that he is rotating the wrong players, for me Woolfy, Edmundson and Donacien are currently our worst players and yet they play pretty much every game no matter what, I think Woolfy was dropped once recently, admittedly Burgess has been injured until recently but we have Keogh, I think we all know they won't be rotated like the forwards are.

Having had time to get it out of my system I'm still pretty pissed off and disappointed, watching it back Walton had an absolute howler all game, dodgy from the first minute and culpable for Three of the goals in my view, spilled one, came out and changed his mind on the last one and failed to come for one of the others. I think the defenders should be getting their heads to more of those crosses too.

Edmundson was definitely hauled back right in front of the assistant Referee in the build up to the first and then the ref plays too much extra time. We also made Two howlers in front of goal with TJJ and Edwards somehow missing absolute gimme's to put the game to bed. I still think KM is also wrong in playing TJJ over a clearly in form Ladapo, makes no sense, yes TJJ scored today but frankly I'd have scored it, it was the beautiful ball from Burns that made that goal.

All in all we would have taken a draw before kick off and 7/9 this week is good but for me we lacked professionalism in the dying moments and literally threw away Two crucial points. It's only a minor setback but it should not have happened, you only had to look at Morsy's post match interview to know he feels the same.

[hallamblue]

If our centre backs were commanding in that 6-18 yard area the goalkeeper wouldn’t be having to make the do I come for the ball or not decisions . Our CB’s are our weak link in our team in my humble opinion. Neither of them can header the bloody ball. Neither of them “ deal” with the opposition forwards. They’re not good enough. They don’t actually “ defend”!


Edit: Mike, you have a point re the rotation of players. It works reasonably well with our strikers I think, but McKenna can’t really rotate our defenders because we don’t have the strength in depth do we. Who can he bring in at CB or right back of fit that matter left back . The potential replacements Leigh snd KVY and Burgess are injured or returning from injury .

[ashfordblue]

I keep saying this KM MUST I REPEAT MUST bring in at least two strong Centre Backs to sow that defense up as tight as a ducks arse, definitely, Walton has to be dropped he's on a bad run of form and to let in three easy goals beggers belief, so KM must give Hladky his chance whilst they can work out how to get Walton back to his past brilliant form.
So KM must search around for two quality Center-backs urgently and spend good money completing it otherwise if we keep leaking goals as easily as today we will struggle big time.

[arana peligrosa]

gave game highlghts a double-viewing as planned. Once would more often than not be enough, but for a game like that, it kind of warrants a second look.

Some stupid-as* in the crowd with a whistle during first half impeding play but it didn't last long. Pity is, the goals of Ladapo (3) and Morsy (4) were of such quality they would deserve to win any game but victory was taken from us by a astoundingly asinine length of additional time and some of the players losing focus while a two goal lead remained. Guess they thought they'd done enough by the 95th minute and a 4 - 2 advantage. In some way, you can't quite fault them.

Took a moment to view next three league games, Exeter, Morecambe and someone else. At first glance they all appear winnable against no-thrills mid-league oppositon but you then take into account what happened today. The defense appears - or is - vulnerable and can be got at. Either McKenna addresses the issue head on and makes changes, or further instances of today can or will reoccur.

[Blue Wilf]

Watching it back, there were mistakes. Walton in particular. However, i can't remember the last goal keeper we had who commanded his area - certainly no-one in the past 20 years. It seems to be how they are coached these days. Their last 2 goals were long ball 'hit and hope' crosses that we as a team did not deal with. I think KM was right when he said the emotion of the day got the better of them - they did not deal with it well and it has become something of a worry. If you add in dropped points from winning positions v sheff weds and plymouth, it starts to become a real worry. Having said that, in the cold light of day, it was an away draw at a top half side so we take it and move on. More disappointing was the 6 point gap to 3rd has narrowed again. Agree that Ladapo should have played from the start - his goal was great and shows his confidence is up at last but I don't buy the we should only play 11 players out of a large squad until one is injured argument. You have to manage the whole squad, not just 11 or 12 of them.

[Tangfastic]

I've slept on that game..... and I'm still pissed off. I can deal with having a bad day at the office and losing. Its part of the game, but the way we switched off was really unprofessional and taking the p*ss. If I was a travelling fan who 2-3 minutes earlier was going berserk with us going 4-2 up and then see us capitulate like that - id be so angry and let down.

Haven't read McKenna's post game comments but saw his headline " Sometime Crazy matches happen". Yes, but they happen for a reason. I hope he's seriously pissed off, too, but is doing his manager's duties and trying to remain calm and not throwing anyone under the bus in public.

I don't understand how with so little time available they can score 2 goals. And they're demoralised by conceding 2 late goals themselves. I've seen us many times go a goal behind and know we won't score because the opposition have shut us out effectively with 20 or 30 minutes to go. We've spent so much time talking about other teams time-wasting and shithousery, yet we can't do that for 3 or for 4 minutes to protect 2 goals. And we don't have to cheat... just put the ball in their corner and slow the game down. It's like our players got caught up in a pointless slugfest when we didn't need to.

We've conceded a two goal lead at Sheff Wed, did it midweek at Port Vale and did it twice in a game yesterday. Can't just keep on blaming an individual or a ref or bad luck .... its a team problem. Not just defenders, too. We do concede too many times when we're on top. So it's good we very often get on top and into winning positions.... but quite often the game management is poor.
It's McKenna's problem to sort out. He's done a great job and it's no mean feat to go away and score 4 at a place like Charlton.... but the way we closed that game out was sh*t. These points we're dropping could be the difference between automatic promotion and the lottery play-offs. Can't keep blaming refs for dropped points.

[Blue Wilf]

I have a similar concern, Tang. Even at this stage of the season, the prospect of Ipswich in a play off is too much to bear - I just don't trust us! Imagine us letting the 'emotion of the game' get the better of us in that scenario Thats why automatic promotion is critical for us, so dropping these points is so frustrating...

[Cabanas Blue]

This taken from that other site has made me feel a lot better.


1. Arsenal - 2.55
2. Leyton Orient - 2.44
3. Man City - 2.42
4. Plymouth - 2.38
5. Ipswich - 2.18
6. Stevenage - 2.12
7. Spurs & Sheffield Wednesday - 2.00

Remember that only 4 teams in the 92 have a better record this season, and that for all the leads thrown away, and bad goals conceded, and frustrations that we are picking up more points than nearly every other team in the country.

There aren’t major problems, there aren’t massive issues that need sorting - there are things we can improve on and KM will know this and be working his backside of to find ways to creep us up that table above Plymouth

We all would have taken our current position at the start of the season.

[JohnnyB]

I too would be worried if we dropped out of the top two but I think the likelihood is we’ll stay there. I’d say we have the best squad and the best manager in the division and that will tell as the season goes on. Wednesday have the best player and Peterborough appear to have the best striker, but I’d rather have our assets.

[Bluemike]

I'm still convinced we are going up as champions, that's not talk, it's how I've felt for weeks, yesterday doesn't change that at all, however Tang is correct in that the way we saw the last 3 minutes out was pathetic and should never have happened, but its all fine margins, putting into perspective, if we had gone 2-4 down and then scored 2 in the last 3 minutes we'd all be crowing about great resilience and what a fab point it was. In a nutshell it was a tough place to go and a good point, if you forget how we got it lol.

[hallamblue]

This taken from that other site has made me feel a lot better.


1. Arsenal - 2.55
2. Leyton Orient - 2.44
3. Man City - 2.42
4. Plymouth - 2.38
5. Ipswich - 2.18
6. Stevenage - 2.12
7. Spurs & Sheffield Wednesday - 2.00

Remember that only 4 teams in the 92 have a better record this season, and that for all the leads thrown away, and bad goals conceded, and frustrations that we are picking up more points than nearly every other team in the country.

There aren’t major problems, there aren’t massive issues that need sorting - there are things we can improve on and KM will know this and be working his backside of to find ways to creep us up that table above Plymouth

We all would have taken our current position at the start of the season.

This our ability to score goals yes?

That doesn’t appear to be our problem as many players in the team can and do score goals.

Our main problem is we are soft in defence whenever we are actually put under any real pressure. This doesn’t happen often due to our ability to keep possession. BUT it is happening more frequently now and when teams do apply pressure don’t (and can’t) defend balls into our box. It’s now putting pressure on Walton as he had to decide “do I come for this ball or will Woolfie / Edmundson deal with it”.

My personal view is our CBs are not good enough regards “defending” (as opposed to bringing the ball out of defence in our hallmark build up of play out from the back), and I think opponents are now realising how to hurt us. So if we don’t sort this out in January I can easily see us dropping out of the top two unfortunately. Our defence is weak compared to the rest of the team.

[Bluemike]

That's points per game isn't it ?

I think we also need to remember we've kept more clean sheets than most teams under McKenna.....hard to believe after this week I know.

[hallamblue]

[hallamblue]

The whole of the stoppage time play for you guys …

https://twitter.com/cafcofficial/status ... 371?s=46&t