Lordan and Collins and Craig Kicked out

Jus · Post by **Jus** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:42 am

Not going to be offered new contracts according to TWTD.

Post by **Dazza** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:27 am

This is insane, I think Collins and Craig are decent players, they are certianly no worse than Haynes but Haynes is just lucky enough to have been given a chance due to our position with a lack of forwards...

Guess Craig isnt going to have much luck when we have so many midfielders.

But Collins could easily come in for De Vos!

uefacup81 · Post by **uefacup81** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:30 am

With the state of our defence at the moment, we need to hang on to any defenders that we've got. Wilnis and DeVos aren't going to be around for much longer - so this is utter madness.

Jus · Post by **Jus** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:33 am

Feel it's a bit harsh on Lordan too, he's only 18 and scored twice in the FA Youth Cup Final, and is highly rated in Ireland as a decent prospect for the future.

Bluebird · Post by **Bluebird** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:33 am

ROYLE OUT!

Post by **Earl Blue** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:49 am

I spoke to Liam at Half time (GKU) on Saturday. It was easy
for me to speak to him as I know his dad.

He informed me that due to the signing of Williams he was
not being offered a contract to stay on.

He mentioned that he had been offered something at Swansea
but also that Tony Mowbray has offered him something at Hibs.

Naturally I told him that he would not go that wrong if
he took up an offer with Mogga.

So my thought on this would be again th Finances of ITFC are
letting us down, and I am sure the restructring of the debt we
have is going to take its toll on our once hopeful youths.

the-mole · Post by **the-mole** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:06 am

LOL - this club gets beyond the joke!!!

Not the first time since ROyle took charge have we offloaded a bunch of talented youth players and I guess it won't be the last.

He isn't overly happy putting faith in the youth and would rather bring in older dead wood.

So we have just signed Williams for midfield but at the end of this season we won't have Magilton, probably shouldn't have Horlock, Juan is on loan and Richards deal is up in the summer!!!

Collins hasn't been given a chance, yet he is being chopped!! We have De Vos who is hardly improving with Age - and Wilnis probably won't be here next season.

The irony is we cleared out some fine young defenders because of the prospect of Collins - players like Justin Miller, Chris Hogg and Lee Beevers - now it seems that Collins isn't up to the task either???

Surely it wouldn't hurt to give these guys one more season to see if they actually can make the grade?? Or does royle have a list of has beens he is waiting to sign on stupidly long contracts???

Post by **Earl Blue** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:16 am

the-mole wrote:LOL - this club gets beyond the joke!!!

Not the first time since ROyle took charge have we offloaded a bunch of talented youth players and I guess it won't be the last.

True, and these youths of the future are being sacrificed for players
who dont have the number of years left in them as the youngsters.
(This has to be shortsightedness).

He isn't overly happy putting faith in the youth and would rather bring in older dead wood.

So we have just signed Williams for midfield but at the end of this season we won't have Magilton, probably shouldn't have Horlock, Juan is on loan and Richards deal is up in the summer!!!

I dont think Juan is getting enough play time to be able to make
a creditable decision as to whether he should be offered a permanent
move once his loan period is up.

Collins hasn't been given a chance, yet he is being chopped!! We have De Vos who is hardly improving with Age - and Wilnis probably won't be here next season.

I just get the feeling that Joe is aiming to get as high in the league as we
can this season, simply say well we did not do too bad under the circumstance, and then in 2006/2007 season scratch his head and say
'hmm what do I do now. He will see that the position in the League is
more import that the plans for the future.

The irony is we cleared out some fine young defenders because of the prospect of Collins - players like Justin Miller, Chris Hogg and Lee Beevers - now it seems that Collins isn't up to the task either???

Surely it wouldn't hurt to give these guys one more season to see if they actually can make the grade?? Or does royle have a list of has beens he is waiting to sign on stupidly long contracts???

Probably say on the contract you have to be 30 years old to sign..

Kheffan · Post by **Kheffan** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:38 am

even though i have kept it to myself. i have been in the Royle in camp rather than the Royle out one. but it seems to me that i have been wrong. over the years there has always been a cull in the young players for those who dont make the grade. but these cuts seem to be madness due to the age of some of our players who are coming to the end of their careers.
do it has to be a tentative Royle out

Bluebird · Post by **Bluebird** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:59 am

G'daddy wrote:even though i have kept it to myself. i have been in the Royle in camp rather than the Royle out one. but it seems to me that i have been wrong. over the years there has always been a cull in the young players for those who dont make the grade. but these cuts seem to be madness due to the age of some of our players who are coming to the end of their careers.
do it has to be a tentative Royle out

Kev you are a tart mate, try this ............

ROYLE OUT!

The Gaffer · Post by **The Gaffer** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:00 am

i did tell you lot collins hadnt been offerd a contract

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:17 am

Collins wasn't good enough anyway IMO, i've seen him play quite a few times and he makes far too many mistakes.

Bit surprised they let Lordan go after what he did in the Youth Cup but that's the way things go.

I know someone who will be very happy that Craig hasn't been kept on

ippers · Post by **ippers** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:18 am

To be fair the management know more than we do, and any young player approaching 20 in the midfield positions has no chance of gaining a place and would be in their interests too leave, Collins was suppose to be a prospect but when he played against Preston he looked a bit of a donkey, and made a costly mistake against Stoke, obviously they see Nash as the better player.

Dubai Blue · Post by **Dubai Blue** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:21 am

Come on chaps. Not all of the youngsters make it into the first team and we can support a finite number of players in any one given time.

We all have our favourites and JR obviously has his too (its his job after all).

Personally I think a healthy turnover in the youth ranks is a good sign that we are looking all the time at bright new prospects.

Look at it this way. Perhaps the guys are a little disappointed but this way they get to try to further their careers by moving down the leagues a little.

The experience may make them into the kind of players that we wish we still had BUT if we hold on to them they may never get the experience.

We have had what IMO is an unusually high number of youth team players breaking into the first team this season for a variety of reasons and those that didn't deserve the chance to try elsewhere.

The academy is supposed to be a centre of excellence not a centre of average ability ! Come on this is Ipswich Town !!

Walton Blue · Post by **Walton Blue** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:23 am

Gaz wrote:Collins wasn't good enough anyway IMO, i've seen him play quite a few times and he makes far too many mistakes.

Bit surprised they let Lordan go after what he did in the Youth Cup but that's the way things go.

I know someone who will be very happy that Craig hasn't been kept on

Apparently liam craig might be offered someting by falkirk.

I'm disappointed that lordan hasn't made the grade and is being released.
A mate of mine who goes to all the reserve home games said that lordan very rarely impresses during the games he watches.

the-mole · Post by **the-mole** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:34 am

Dubai Blue wrote:Come on chaps. Not all of the youngsters make it into the first team and we can support a finite number of players in any one given time.

We all have our favourites and JR obviously has his too (its his job after all).

Personally I think a healthy turnover in the youth ranks is a good sign that we are looking all the time at bright new prospects.

Look at it this way. Perhaps the guys are a little disappointed but this way they get to try to further their careers by moving down the leagues a little.

The experience may make them into the kind of players that we wish we still had BUT if we hold on to them they may never get the experience.

We have had what IMO is an unusually high number of youth team players breaking into the first team this season for a variety of reasons and those that didn't deserve the chance to try elsewhere.

The academy is supposed to be a centre of excellence not a centre of average ability ! Come on this is Ipswich Town !!

You raise some good points here DB (as ever hehe) however how can a player be judged if he isn't given a chance.

Collins has had two games - yep preston was a nightmare - but you can't lay all the blame in his direction. He needs at least 5-10 games to show if he can do it. This season more than any other in recent years should be about experimentation. De Vos has looked poor for most of the season - why wasn't collins given a run out previously??

What is happening with Nash - his injury record is appalling and I really question whether this guy will ever step up and play to a high enough standard considering how weak his body is. So if we are getting shot of Collins because of Nash then great

I can understand in midfield has we do have alot of choice in that department presently - however next season 4 of those players could be gone - Magilton, Juan, Horlock and Richards. That wouldn't leave us with alot to fall back on.

Defensively Joe has cocked up time and time again. Constantly clearing out good defensive players and bringing in dire players. Sito apart I don't think has made one outstanding defensive signing - and that includes De Vos.

Now if Man U, Arsenal or Chelsea were clearing out big name youth players you could understand - but ITFC are not even close to those. So when you read and hear so much hype around these players being cleared out you really have to question what the heck is going on.

IMO Royle isn't pushing youth players the same way Burley did, he is merely plugging holes as and when he needs to.

Shed on tour · Post by **Shed on tour** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:41 am

I knew about Liam on friday as his dad text EG to let her know.
Then heard about Collins on saturday. Whilst I know that not every youngster is going to make the grade I just hope we are not going to offer longer contracts to older players who are already past their best.

Dubai Blue · Post by **Dubai Blue** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:21 am

Thanks for the compliment (i think it was wasn't it ?) and for the record the feeling is mutual

. I don't know why we so rarely agree but at least we manage to disagree respectfully hehe.

I would be unhappy if Collins was judged purely on his two appearances since he was I suppose 'thrown in at the deep end' and as you say would need more games if this was they way he was to be judged.

I was confused by this too since its only a few days since he played and not that badly, against Stoke. But I have to assume that JR takes advice from the youth team management and gets to plenty of reserve games and trust that these were where the judgements were made.

DeVos has had his moments this year but I don't think any of our youths are even close to him yet and whether we like it or not I reckon he has at least 2 seasons left partnering Naylor.

We will see how nash gets on at Hartlepool. For sure he needs more games so for me, even though we might be a bit thin at the centre of defence, I am very happy to see him getting 1st team games. He could come back ready for the step up and ready to start pushing the other two next year. Maybe stronger too ?

Sounds to me like Joe has his defensive signing in range. Otherwise this is a big clearout.

phily bon bon · Post by **phily bon bon** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:25 am

the-mole wrote:
Dubai Blue wrote:Come on chaps. Not all of the youngsters make it into the first team and we can support a finite number of players in any one given time.

We all have our favourites and JR obviously has his too (its his job after all).

Personally I think a healthy turnover in the youth ranks is a good sign that we are looking all the time at bright new prospects.

Look at it this way. Perhaps the guys are a little disappointed but this way they get to try to further their careers by moving down the leagues a little.

The experience may make them into the kind of players that we wish we still had BUT if we hold on to them they may never get the experience.

We have had what IMO is an unusually high number of youth team players breaking into the first team this season for a variety of reasons and those that didn't deserve the chance to try elsewhere.

The academy is supposed to be a centre of excellence not a centre of average ability ! Come on this is Ipswich Town !!
You raise some good points here DB (as ever hehe) however how can a player be judged if he isn't given a chance.

Collins has had two games - yep preston was a nightmare - but you can't lay all the blame in his direction. He needs at least 5-10 games to show if he can do it. This season more than any other in recent years should be about experimentation. De Vos has looked poor for most of the season - why wasn't collins given a run out previously??

What is happening with Nash - his injury record is appalling and I really question whether this guy will ever step up and play to a high enough standard considering how weak his body is. So if we are getting shot of Collins because of Nash then great

I can understand in midfield has we do have alot of choice in that department presently - however next season 4 of those players could be gone - Magilton, Juan, Horlock and Richards. That wouldn't leave us with alot to fall back on.

Defensively Joe has cocked up time and time again. Constantly clearing out good defensive players and bringing in dire players. Sito apart I don't think has made one outstanding defensive signing - and that includes De Vos.

Now if Man U, Arsenal or Chelsea were clearing out big name youth players you could understand - but ITFC are not even close to those. So when you read and hear so much hype around these players being cleared out you really have to question what the heck is going on.

IMO Royle isn't pushing youth players the same way Burley did, he is merely plugging holes as and when he needs to.

spot on

Qbert72 · Post by **Qbert72** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:11 pm

A lot of good points have been raised thus far and here is my two penneth worth.

Having watched all three players at either 1st team, Reserves or Youth I am just a little bit confused.

I thought Liam Criag was a very good player with a good first touch and seemed to make some very good crosses into the box.

Cathal Lordon was the spitting image of "Magic" but with pace. His first touch was nowhere near as good as some but he tried hard.

Aiden Collins although he looked a reasonable defender he never inspired confidence in his fellow players or the fans.

So in short, I believe Aiden will make a good lower league defender but is not upto Championship level "yet". GOOD DECISION
Lordon although showing potential needs more time to fully develop, so either spend more money on keeping him or let him move on. GOOD DECISION
Liam Criag, I believe he has the talent to play at this level but with the level of midfielders at the club when Peters etc.. are ahead of him would it be in his best interest to stay. I would like to think a 1 year contract would be an idea, but it is squad wages that could go to better use. RIGHT DECISION.

So although I may not like the thought of the young gund being let go I can see the logic behind it.

It has been said many times that if you unearth 1 genuine talent per year from your youth squad you are doing well.
Well we have Owen Garven, Danny Haynes, Shane Supple to name but a few so I think we doing a good job.

Rach · Post by **Rach** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:58 pm

Collins has never looked at all good enough when he's played at full level, so Im not surprised to see him go. Esp since we've got Nash and Casement (who's a few years younger but much more impressive in the Youth cup IMO)

Iv always rated Craig and Lordon, but as already said, there's little point keeping these players on if they are unlikely to be up to the standard needed as it would be a waste of wages. IMO Joe and the other staff are very good judges of whether youngsters will make it...and as far as I can think of theyve not released a player yet who has gone on to make elsewhere (examples like Beevers, Justin Miller, Bloomfield might be doing well for their clubs but are still yet to make the step-up to a higher level........)

Phil · Post by **Phil** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:15 pm

Collins and Craig were never going to set the world alight, but why Lordon cant be offered a Knew contract of even a year is beyond me. It wouldn't suprise me if Jaime peters wasn't offered an extention either now based on what Earl has said about Craig not being kept on because the signing of Williams.

AzzurroMark · Post by **AzzurroMark** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:41 pm

Collins has never looked at all good enough when he's played at full level, so Im not surprised to see him go. Esp since we've got Nash and Casement (who's a few years younger but much more impressive in the Youth cup IMO)

Iv always rated Craig and Lordon, but as already said, there's little point keeping these players on if they are unlikely to be up to the standard needed as it would be a waste of wages. IMO Joe and the other staff are very good judges of whether youngsters will make it...and as far as I can think of theyve not released a player yet who has gone on to make elsewhere (examples like Beevers, Justin Miller, Bloomfield might be doing well for their clubs but are still yet to make the step-up to a higher level........)

I think it is always disappointing to see any youngsters being shown the door, but the point that Rach makes says it all! It is the released individuals that we should think about! If i was fortunate enough to be in their position, i would rather have a club be honest & release me to try elsewhere, than be in a team where there is very little chance of ever making the grade. Some of the players we have released are doing very nicely at other clubs, Connell at Bournemouth springs to mind. Some do get released to go on & make more of a name for themselves...Tommy Miller, having been released as a youngster, eventually ended up back at Town...He is one of the very few to do that though!

jjlj_itfc4eva · Post by **jjlj_itfc4eva** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:06 pm

bluebird wrote:
G'daddy wrote:even though i have kept it to myself. i have been in the Royle in camp rather than the Royle out one. but it seems to me that i have been wrong. over the years there has always been a cull in the young players for those who dont make the grade. but these cuts seem to be madness due to the age of some of our players who are coming to the end of their careers.
do it has to be a tentative Royle out
Kev you are a tart mate, try this ............

ROYLE OUT!

agreed.lol.
ROYLE OUT

Rach · Post by **Rach** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:42 pm

Does anyone know which other youth players have contracts which run out at the end of the season??

crazee · Post by **crazee** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:14 pm

i think the following players have deals expiring in the summer:
Knights
Nash
Barron
Clarke
Mitchell

i guess all the acadmey lads are, unless they have signed a pro-deal beyound the end of the year, i think

almost full list on STB as well Rach http://www.sportnetwork.net/main/s78/st1508.htm if any ones notices any mistakes/ knows how long a players deal is let me know and ill add it

StanstedBlue · Post by **StanstedBlue** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:41 am

Hasn't Collins been a regular captain of the reserves? Seems to me the club are sacrificing the youth policy for the finances. Strange decision but maybe the future after retructure isn't as bright as we are led to believe.

The Gaffer · Post by **The Gaffer** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:53 am

StanstedBlue wrote:Hasn't Collins been a regular captain of the reserves? Seems to me the club are sacrificing the youth policy for the finances. Strange decision but maybe the future after retructure isn't as bright as we are led to believe.

yeah he has, i no he wasnt very happy about it, as royle told his agent and not Collins himself.

the-mole · Post by **the-mole** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:03 am

Rach wrote:Collins has never looked at all good enough when he's played at full level, so Im not surprised to see him go. Esp since we've got Nash and Casement (who's a few years younger but much more impressive in the Youth cup IMO)

Iv always rated Craig and Lordon, but as already said, there's little point keeping these players on if they are unlikely to be up to the standard needed as it would be a waste of wages. IMO Joe and the other staff are very good judges of whether youngsters will make it...and as far as I can think of theyve not released a player yet who has gone on to make elsewhere (examples like Beevers, Justin Miller, Bloomfield might be doing well for their clubs but are still yet to make the step-up to a higher level........)

By all accounts these were the first players released and the three mentioned were very much penned in for Burleys plans!!! In Beevers and Bloomfields case they were part of the special group of youngsters with Bent, Richards, Ambrose, Westlake and Price.

The trick here is about opportunity - opportunity which would have been given under Burley and opportunity which isn't being given now. Mark my words the release of at least 2 of the above players will come back to haunt us. I have read and heard that a host of championship clubs are keeping tabs on those players - clubs such as Sheff United, Cardiff and Crewe.

Unfortunately for Royle he is having to be prudent with his contract offers - in an ideal world he might like to keep these lads for one more year to see how they develop but as finances are still tighter then a kids wetsuit he is having to make bold decisions!!!

Tractor-Boys.com

Lordan and Collins and Craig Kicked out

Lordan and Collins and Craig Kicked out

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