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Riviera
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Sit back, put your feet up and

Post by Riviera » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:17 am

read this

just saw this on TWTD, its long and whill take a while to read, but its worth it, its written by a Middlesborough fan
Fresh from FA Cup humiliation at the hands of Nuneaton, I feel compelled to dwell this week on my own club's private grief, because I think it illustrates a broader, more universal problem with many of our clubs in the modern era.

Essentially it boils down to this: Our clubs are too full of tw*ts who rob us of our money, our identity and ultimately diminish our passion for the club which in turn means we stop going to the match.

Middlesbrough F.C. is a great old club with a few lower-league titles to our name. We've been in the Premiership since 1998, been in Europe for the last two seasons, had a League Cup win and regularly get crowds of between 25 and 30,000. Historically this is a period of unparallelled success the like of which we have never known.

So why doesn't it feel like it?

Why do I and other fans feel a bit hollow inside?

Why in only our second season in Europe can we not fill 75% of the stadium?

Why are this season's attendances the lowest since we opened the Riverside?

Something is wrong and it's not just being fifth-bottom and unable to beat Nuneaton. It's a deeper, wider malaise in football that Middlesbrough serves to illustrate perfectly.

I first went to Ayresome Park in 1973 to see them play Hull City. It was 1-0 to the Boro. A Mills goal. Just over 9,000 were there. Most of us stood in the Holgate End on flaking concrete terraces. The players were balding, chubby, long-haired and some had thick bushy sideburns that you could hide an owl in. We didn't go for the glory, we went because it's always been a laugh. It's always been fun. But it's really not anymore.

We should be joyful at our current relatively high status - seventh last year and all the European success. But many of us are not. And be warned, all of you who support teams striving for that European place, this can happen to you. For we at the Boro are, like California, a few years ahead of the game.

This is the problem; We're so bored and discontented by the football we play, how it's played and a lot of the players who play for us that all the passion, attraction and excitement is getting sucked out of the whole concept of going to the match.

We have been one of the most consistently boring clubs to watch for at least ten years now. This isn't a knee-jerk reaction to a few dodgy games, this is a whole extended culture of football tedium. If we're coming to your club to play you, I bet you groan. Middlesbrough is a by-word for boring, and this season is just as rotten.

This is bad enough, but on top of that we have possibly the worst reputation for buying over-priced, over-paid, under-committed players. This really needs saying. We shouldn't try and pretend it's acceptable.

Most of them have been little better than average, some of them have been appalling, others have just taken the pish out of the club financially. But they all shared one thing. They didn't give a s*** about the club and just drained us of huge amounts of money and left as soon as they were offered a job anywhere else. Now I know we don't suffer uniquely from this. But it has become a way of life at the Boro.

This endless catalogue of footballing mercenaries has slowly rotted the guts of the club and is slowly separating the fans from their team so that the club doesn't feel like it's ours - instead of the love of our life it feels like it's some kind of hooker who is taking it up the arse from legions of sex tourists.

And yet we have one of the best youth teams in the country and are bringing some of them through to be regular first-teamers and in James Morrison, Stuart Parnaby, Stewart Downing when he's fit and a couple of others, we have the only members of the team who seem to actually care - which is because they're local lads and surprise, surprise care a bit about their team. But they're dragged down by the mercenaries and the lazy good-for-nothings and will continue to be so unless we change the rent-a-mercenary culture.

The plain fact is we don't really care about the UEFA Cup adventure much. With a crowd of just over 9,000 I think we proved this conclusively. We didn't care much about drawing with Nuneaton. A lot expected to lose. We won't fill the Riverside for the cup replay. It may only be half-full.

People who feel like me don't care much because we suspect most of the first team don't actually care much. So if we win we don't care, because it's the same load of s***-eating f***wits have won and we secretly hate most of them. I'm just saying what a lot are thinking. Who at the Boro has affection for Viduka, Rochemback, Doriva, Pogatetz, JFH, Yakubu? No one. Occasionally, like with Frank Queudrue, we buy a player who does put his shoulder to the wheel. Sometimes we get it right. Not often.

Our relative success feels hollow because it's being achieved by players we by and large don't respect.

And you may point to the 4-1 Man United victory and the 3-3 draw with Spurs and say 'look how great those games were'. Well, you'd be right, but that ultimately doesn't make any difference because, after all these years in the top flight with Gibbo's money buying so many desperate money-grabbers for a season or two, we find it hard to really feel good about any performance anymore.

Rather, it compounds the problem because, to me, it looks like some players are only interested in playing against the top clubs and that makes us feel even more disenfranchised and furious. Remember we lost to Sunderland - the only club to do so so far. That tells us something important.

Our policy of buying old has-been or never-were strikers is unparallelled. Every season brings a new joker who takes our money and then laughs at us as they leg it back down the A19. It started with the evil white-feathered goblin Fabrizio Ravenelli of course but there are many, many others. Hamilton Ricard, Alen Boksic, JFH, Viduka, Maccarone, Nemeth and this is just a few of those who ride the Boro gravy train before getting off with their pockets full of our money and a smug look on their face.

Most of the time they play rubbish and only get picked because McClaren has wazzed so much money on them he has to justify it. But occasionally we resurrect players like Ziege or Zenden's career and what do they do? They repay us by f***ing off as soon as possible.

And something tells me we'll find Yakubu doing the same soon enough if he has half a chance. I don't trust him. He'd be gone before the end of the month if it suits him. We seem addicted to players who disrespect us. Like a wife who returns to her abusive husband for another slap.

Okay, you say, no one who's any good wants to move to the unglamorous Ironopolis of Middlesbrough unless no-one else will have them - fair enough then - sod them all. Let's just use the youth team and a handful of good British players who understand the value and worth of the industrial heartlands of Britain. I really don't care.

I genuinely believe that the gradual effect of all this abuse over the years has been to freeze our hearts. But McClaren doesn't seem to realise and keeps on buying these muppets. I despair of him. He makes one good buy in every six. He might, might be okay as a football coach but as a manager of the club he's lightweight and quite rubbish really.

Okay, we've had some success and we're a stable Premiership club, but the price for that has been selling the soul of the club to a revolving door of mercenaries who use and abuse our club. That's too great a price. Are you really surprised so many stay away now? We're numbed by it after all these years but deep down it's a bit humiliating to us all.

We're dying inside. The best signings we've made in recent years are almost all British players. Southgate, Ehiogu, Riggott, even old Ray Parlour has been better than the likes of Doriva.

Have you seen Rochemback? He's surely one of those not-really-a-footballer-ringers that only Souey gets fooled by. It's not because they're foreigners per se, God knows we've rubbish British players as well - remember Robbo bought Brian Deane, Noel Whelan and Dean Windass - but its undeniable that we have attracted some of the worst imports. Not just poor players - some of them can kick a ball when they feel like it - but just woeful attitudes. We've had them all going back to Emerson and his unhappy wife drowning in our money.

Personally, and this is a radical point of view I know most disagree with, I would rather be relegated by playing our youth team then stay mid-table with the bunch of football hookers that we have season in, season out. I'd rather have a purge of all the lazy leeches. I'd rather have good honest pros and not feckless egomaniacs, wherever they come from.

I fear that younger fans now think this is the only way you can run a football club as one big name after another is touted as our saviour. Maybe it works at other clubs, I don't know, but to me, at Middlesbrough, it all seems dreadfully inappropriate.

I hope Steve Gibson realises why the stadium has big bare expanses all the time now. He's a man of great integrity and the fact so many of these tw*ts have taken his money and laughed in our collective faces as they run off back down south really angers me. It's time to stop this now.

During this transfer window I don't want to see any more of it. No more half-buying half -assed players who are mysteriously injured for four months a year or who are 34 and looking for one last big pay day. If we've got the money, why not gamble on promising British players? They cost less in wages than bloated tarts like Viduka and might actually bond with the club which has given them a break.

Players arrive and clearly loathe the place like Pogatetz. I wonder where he thought he was going. Misquoted my arse. He hates the place and will be gone as soon as he can. I wish he'd go now. Imagine if you turned up at work and said in front of your paymasters: "This is a right dump, now pay me."

We're not the big city, glory-hunting prawn sarnie mob at the Boro.

We'd take love over money. We're not flash, we don't want to be flash - we want true grit to make the pearl, not another donkey-choking wad of cash paid to strikers who can't get a gig anywhere else because they're lazy fat fools. It's time the manager realised this. He may be the last man on Teesside who doesn't. I even fear he may offer Maccarone a contract extension.

Southgate and other players have been asking fans for more support - hey Gareth, thanks for that, but remember you are getting paid to turn up, we're not. We're not discontented for no reason. it's not knee-jerk, fickle fans here. This has been a long, slow process of disillusion. Win or lose or draw, a lot of us feel too distant, cold and alienated from much of the team who in turn hate playing in front of us.

And it was you Gareth, who revealed the extent of Boksic's pampering. It sickened me. So don't lecture us please, son. We've been Boro for longer than you and will be so long after you hung up your boots. We're the experts. Not you.

Can we please have our club back from these slippery characters who seek only to cream us up one last time? These jokers are not fit to wear the shirts that once belonged to real men like Alan Foggon, John Hickton or even Bernie Slaven and Paul Wilkinson.

I'm not depressed because we're fifth bottom and can't beat Nuneaton. It's weird but the results don't matter to me now. It's bigger than that.

Is there anything wrong with wanting a team of mostly British players complimented with one or two top-class overseas players? Is that such a bad thing? Wasn't that actually how it was supposed to work? Are you really telling me we can't find a lad in the north east who can play just 1% better than Rochemback? A drunk monkey could play better.

The irony is because of a good youth policy we have the chance to do something shocking. We could have 75% of our first team as home-grown talent. Top it up with a few judicious buys and we'd all be much happier. Is it really so shocking to think that might be the answer? Surely, that is the future and all this buying in a striker from Machu Pichu will be seen for the foolish delusion it is.

Would it be so shocking to try? I'd rather be relegated with that team than stay up and have to look at Viduk'as big square head and JFH's ridiculous big sticky-out granite horse's arse every week.

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned. Maybe. Or maybe it's the most modern of thinking. But Middlesbrough should be a warning, an illustration of what can happen if your club is one of the many unfashionable, out-of-the-way clubs who are trying to pretend to be a big boy.

If you have some money and resources and moderate success, you too might find that you feel very disillusioned. That for which you have struggled for years is not the promised land after all, because your club has been flooded with desperados.

We're losing all our highs and lows, ain't it funny how the feeling goes away
.

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Post by the-mole » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:39 am

Best thing I have read for ages!!!!!

And I couldn't agree more with what this guy has said!!!

Football has evolved into a rich mans game where money is all that matters. It is all that matters to players and clubs alike. This has killed the game because the new yuppee rich boy footballers cannot understand what us modern day fans are all about.

We don't have endless pockets, where we want to throw our hard earned cash at these so called idols. We are on the whole middle britain. Never gonna be rich - but not poor enough either. We are the ones who go without holidays or luxuries so we can pay for our season tickets. When was the last time a footballer went without???

In just a few short years footballers have gone from well respected members of the community to prima donnas who believe they are far too good to be associating themselves with the core fans. Even our chairman took a similar attitude upon promotion. We went from local family club - to big corporate boys over night. All of a sudden it was about how much money we ITFC could make regardless of who it upset. We then saw how the tables had turned when the sh*t hit the wall after relegation!!!

Football has lost the heros of yesteryear - players who we could associate with. People who cared about the club they played for - not because it threw cash at them - but because they felt part of it. They respected the fans and gave us 100%. Remember players like John Wark and Mick Stockwell - players who cared about the club and its fans. Players who gave their all and who would never have let this club down. Well for those who had the priviledge to watch those players hold that memory dear because I don't think we will ever see players like that gracing our club again.

There may be more talented players coming in and out - but the commitment and loyalty will never be found again - not while football is running with its money focussed mentality. You only have to look at how england play to see that really the players don't really care.

Any fan would give their left leg to represent their country and say that they pulled on an england shirt - what greater pride could there be? You never ever used to hear about players retiring from international football - they simply stopped getting picked.

I hope one day soon we can all watch football played with the same level of commitment that we see from games like rugby. Performances should be demanded and if players are not performing they should be shown the door - including managers. The players and managers are so protected by contracts which only work for them - yet when they have had enough they will happily unleash hell to get their dream move and happily stick 2 fingers to all the fans who have paid money to see their so called heros!!!

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Post by Riviera » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:49 am

wow mole, thought i was gunna have to sit back and put my feet up again there chap :lol: :lol:

i agree with what ur saying, football was the common mans game, no more though, games are said to sell out, but yet the capacity is very rarely hit, its because of all of the corporate arseholes who want the tickets but dont turn up, and if they do bother to turn up they just stand at the bar watching on the screens scattered around the ground

if i take my missus to watch town its £50 just to watch the football, thats without the travel, the drinks and food, if i took my kids as well thats knocking on £100 for 90 mins of so called entertainment, how can anyone justify that?

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Post by the-mole » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:14 am

I watch neighbours wrote:wow mole, thought i was gunna have to sit back and put my feet up again there chap :lol: :lol:

i agree with what ur saying, football was the common mans game, no more though, games are said to sell out, but yet the capacity is very rarely hit, its because of all of the corporate arseholes who want the tickets but dont turn up, and if they do bother to turn up they just stand at the bar watching on the screens scattered around the ground

if i take my missus to watch town its £50 just to watch the football, thats without the travel, the drinks and food, if i took my kids as well thats knocking on £100 for 90 mins of so called entertainment, how can anyone justify that?
That is precisely the point chap - years ago the association fans felt with the club was strong. We felt a part of it - so when you chips were down fans wanted to do something to help their team out!!!

However as soon as we were promoted the family feel was ripped out of this club and we become Corporate Club - since then us fans have decided that in reality all we want is entertainment. Our club doesn't feel as it used to - hasn't for the past 5 years. Fans are treated with contempt and we are spoken of as if we are stupid louts who don't deserve to have an opinion. JR at times has been very critical of the fans - well JR - us fans do actually pay your wages so we have every right to criticise what our money is being spent on.

At the end of the day I want to see entertainment. I remember Leeds at home first season back in the prem - we lost 2-1 Stewart was sent off - yet I was entertained. The game was tense and whilst the football may not have been nice to watch the commitment and passion was there for all to see. That is what football should be about. Giving you something to talk about when you left the ground. I felt hard done by - but was proud that the lads gave it their all. How many times since then have I been able to say that???

This is what managers, chairmen and players fail to understand. Yes we know football has its ups and downs - but always give it your best shot. Give it your all regardless of what team goes out there. The fans will respect you for it. Entertainment isn't always free flowing beautiful footy - sometimes it is commitment, digging deep and passion!!! I would pay good money to see that - but I don't want to waste good money to sit there bored wishing I was elsewhere!!! :shock:

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Post by nieros » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:16 am

During this transfer window I don't want to see any more of it. No more half-buying half -assed players who are mysteriously injured for four months a year or who are 34 and looking for one last big pay day. If we've got the money, why not gamble on promising British players? They cost less in wages than bloated tarts like Viduka and might actually bond with the club which has given them a break.

............ :shock:

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Re: Sit back, put your feet up and

Post by James the Brains » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:23 am

I watch neighbours wrote:read this

just saw this on TWTD, its long and whill take a while to read, but its worth it, its written by a Middlesborough fan
Fresh from FA Cup humiliation at the hands of Nuneaton, I feel compelled to dwell this week on my own club's private grief, because I think it illustrates a broader, more universal problem with many of our clubs in the modern era.

Essentially it boils down to this: Our clubs are too full of tw*ts who rob us of our money, our identity and ultimately diminish our passion for the club which in turn means we stop going to the match.

Middlesbrough F.C. is a great old club with a few lower-league titles to our name. We've been in the Premiership since 1998, been in Europe for the last two seasons, had a League Cup win and regularly get crowds of between 25 and 30,000. Historically this is a period of unparallelled success the like of which we have never known.

So why doesn't it feel like it?

Why do I and other fans feel a bit hollow inside?

Why in only our second season in Europe can we not fill 75% of the stadium?

Why are this season's attendances the lowest since we opened the Riverside?

Something is wrong and it's not just being fifth-bottom and unable to beat Nuneaton. It's a deeper, wider malaise in football that Middlesbrough serves to illustrate perfectly.

I first went to Ayresome Park in 1973 to see them play Hull City. It was 1-0 to the Boro. A Mills goal. Just over 9,000 were there. Most of us stood in the Holgate End on flaking concrete terraces. The players were balding, chubby, long-haired and some had thick bushy sideburns that you could hide an owl in. We didn't go for the glory, we went because it's always been a laugh. It's always been fun. But it's really not anymore.

We should be joyful at our current relatively high status - seventh last year and all the European success. But many of us are not. And be warned, all of you who support teams striving for that European place, this can happen to you. For we at the Boro are, like California, a few years ahead of the game.

This is the problem; We're so bored and discontented by the football we play, how it's played and a lot of the players who play for us that all the passion, attraction and excitement is getting sucked out of the whole concept of going to the match.

We have been one of the most consistently boring clubs to watch for at least ten years now. This isn't a knee-jerk reaction to a few dodgy games, this is a whole extended culture of football tedium. If we're coming to your club to play you, I bet you groan. Middlesbrough is a by-word for boring, and this season is just as rotten.

This is bad enough, but on top of that we have possibly the worst reputation for buying over-priced, over-paid, under-committed players. This really needs saying. We shouldn't try and pretend it's acceptable.

Most of them have been little better than average, some of them have been appalling, others have just taken the pish out of the club financially. But they all shared one thing. They didn't give a s*** about the club and just drained us of huge amounts of money and left as soon as they were offered a job anywhere else. Now I know we don't suffer uniquely from this. But it has become a way of life at the Boro.

This endless catalogue of footballing mercenaries has slowly rotted the guts of the club and is slowly separating the fans from their team so that the club doesn't feel like it's ours - instead of the love of our life it feels like it's some kind of hooker who is taking it up the arse from legions of sex tourists.

And yet we have one of the best youth teams in the country and are bringing some of them through to be regular first-teamers and in James Morrison, Stuart Parnaby, Stewart Downing when he's fit and a couple of others, we have the only members of the team who seem to actually care - which is because they're local lads and surprise, surprise care a bit about their team. But they're dragged down by the mercenaries and the lazy good-for-nothings and will continue to be so unless we change the rent-a-mercenary culture.

The plain fact is we don't really care about the UEFA Cup adventure much. With a crowd of just over 9,000 I think we proved this conclusively. We didn't care much about drawing with Nuneaton. A lot expected to lose. We won't fill the Riverside for the cup replay. It may only be half-full.

People who feel like me don't care much because we suspect most of the first team don't actually care much. So if we win we don't care, because it's the same load of s***-eating f***wits have won and we secretly hate most of them. I'm just saying what a lot are thinking. Who at the Boro has affection for Viduka, Rochemback, Doriva, Pogatetz, JFH, Yakubu? No one. Occasionally, like with Frank Queudrue, we buy a player who does put his shoulder to the wheel. Sometimes we get it right. Not often.

Our relative success feels hollow because it's being achieved by players we by and large don't respect.

And you may point to the 4-1 Man United victory and the 3-3 draw with Spurs and say 'look how great those games were'. Well, you'd be right, but that ultimately doesn't make any difference because, after all these years in the top flight with Gibbo's money buying so many desperate money-grabbers for a season or two, we find it hard to really feel good about any performance anymore.

Rather, it compounds the problem because, to me, it looks like some players are only interested in playing against the top clubs and that makes us feel even more disenfranchised and furious. Remember we lost to Sunderland - the only club to do so so far. That tells us something important.

Our policy of buying old has-been or never-were strikers is unparallelled. Every season brings a new joker who takes our money and then laughs at us as they leg it back down the A19. It started with the evil white-feathered goblin Fabrizio Ravenelli of course but there are many, many others. Hamilton Ricard, Alen Boksic, JFH, Viduka, Maccarone, Nemeth and this is just a few of those who ride the Boro gravy train before getting off with their pockets full of our money and a smug look on their face.

Most of the time they play rubbish and only get picked because McClaren has wazzed so much money on them he has to justify it. But occasionally we resurrect players like Ziege or Zenden's career and what do they do? They repay us by f***ing off as soon as possible.

And something tells me we'll find Yakubu doing the same soon enough if he has half a chance. I don't trust him. He'd be gone before the end of the month if it suits him. We seem addicted to players who disrespect us. Like a wife who returns to her abusive husband for another slap.

Okay, you say, no one who's any good wants to move to the unglamorous Ironopolis of Middlesbrough unless no-one else will have them - fair enough then - sod them all. Let's just use the youth team and a handful of good British players who understand the value and worth of the industrial heartlands of Britain. I really don't care.

I genuinely believe that the gradual effect of all this abuse over the years has been to freeze our hearts. But McClaren doesn't seem to realise and keeps on buying these muppets. I despair of him. He makes one good buy in every six. He might, might be okay as a football coach but as a manager of the club he's lightweight and quite rubbish really.

Okay, we've had some success and we're a stable Premiership club, but the price for that has been selling the soul of the club to a revolving door of mercenaries who use and abuse our club. That's too great a price. Are you really surprised so many stay away now? We're numbed by it after all these years but deep down it's a bit humiliating to us all.

We're dying inside. The best signings we've made in recent years are almost all British players. Southgate, Ehiogu, Riggott, even old Ray Parlour has been better than the likes of Doriva.

Have you seen Rochemback? He's surely one of those not-really-a-footballer-ringers that only Souey gets fooled by. It's not because they're foreigners per se, God knows we've rubbish British players as well - remember Robbo bought Brian Deane, Noel Whelan and Dean Windass - but its undeniable that we have attracted some of the worst imports. Not just poor players - some of them can kick a ball when they feel like it - but just woeful attitudes. We've had them all going back to Emerson and his unhappy wife drowning in our money.

Personally, and this is a radical point of view I know most disagree with, I would rather be relegated by playing our youth team then stay mid-table with the bunch of football hookers that we have season in, season out. I'd rather have a purge of all the lazy leeches. I'd rather have good honest pros and not feckless egomaniacs, wherever they come from.

I fear that younger fans now think this is the only way you can run a football club as one big name after another is touted as our saviour. Maybe it works at other clubs, I don't know, but to me, at Middlesbrough, it all seems dreadfully inappropriate.

I hope Steve Gibson realises why the stadium has big bare expanses all the time now. He's a man of great integrity and the fact so many of these tw*ts have taken his money and laughed in our collective faces as they run off back down south really angers me. It's time to stop this now.

During this transfer window I don't want to see any more of it. No more half-buying half -assed players who are mysteriously injured for four months a year or who are 34 and looking for one last big pay day. If we've got the money, why not gamble on promising British players? They cost less in wages than bloated tarts like Viduka and might actually bond with the club which has given them a break.

Players arrive and clearly loathe the place like Pogatetz. I wonder where he thought he was going. Misquoted my arse. He hates the place and will be gone as soon as he can. I wish he'd go now. Imagine if you turned up at work and said in front of your paymasters: "This is a right dump, now pay me."

We're not the big city, glory-hunting prawn sarnie mob at the Boro.

We'd take love over money. We're not flash, we don't want to be flash - we want true grit to make the pearl, not another donkey-choking wad of cash paid to strikers who can't get a gig anywhere else because they're lazy fat fools. It's time the manager realised this. He may be the last man on Teesside who doesn't. I even fear he may offer Maccarone a contract extension.

Southgate and other players have been asking fans for more support - hey Gareth, thanks for that, but remember you are getting paid to turn up, we're not. We're not discontented for no reason. it's not knee-jerk, fickle fans here. This has been a long, slow process of disillusion. Win or lose or draw, a lot of us feel too distant, cold and alienated from much of the team who in turn hate playing in front of us.

And it was you Gareth, who revealed the extent of Boksic's pampering. It sickened me. So don't lecture us please, son. We've been Boro for longer than you and will be so long after you hung up your boots. We're the experts. Not you.

Can we please have our club back from these slippery characters who seek only to cream us up one last time? These jokers are not fit to wear the shirts that once belonged to real men like Alan Foggon, John Hickton or even Bernie Slaven and Paul Wilkinson.

I'm not depressed because we're fifth bottom and can't beat Nuneaton. It's weird but the results don't matter to me now. It's bigger than that.

Is there anything wrong with wanting a team of mostly British players complimented with one or two top-class overseas players? Is that such a bad thing? Wasn't that actually how it was supposed to work? Are you really telling me we can't find a lad in the north east who can play just 1% better than Rochemback? A drunk monkey could play better.

The irony is because of a good youth policy we have the chance to do something shocking. We could have 75% of our first team as home-grown talent. Top it up with a few judicious buys and we'd all be much happier. Is it really so shocking to think that might be the answer? Surely, that is the future and all this buying in a striker from Machu Pichu will be seen for the foolish delusion it is.

Would it be so shocking to try? I'd rather be relegated with that team than stay up and have to look at Viduk'as big square head and JFH's ridiculous big sticky-out granite horse's arse every week.

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned. Maybe. Or maybe it's the most modern of thinking. But Middlesbrough should be a warning, an illustration of what can happen if your club is one of the many unfashionable, out-of-the-way clubs who are trying to pretend to be a big boy.

If you have some money and resources and moderate success, you too might find that you feel very disillusioned. That for which you have struggled for years is not the promised land after all, because your club has been flooded with desperados.

We're losing all our highs and lows, ain't it funny how the feeling goes away
.
my God not even the Koran is as long as that! f uck me!

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Post by the-mole » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:40 am

James - what version of the koran have you been reading??

The Complete idiots guide to the Koran!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159257 ... e&n=283155

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Post by TractorRob » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:51 am

He makes some good points but seems to repeat himself a lot.

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Post by Dubai Blue » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:53 am

Every now and then we come back to this, the most important subject that we football lovers have to discuss.

The sad thing is that it is now out of control. Football has a different place in society to what it used to have. It is just showbiz. Something that we can switch on when we are stimulated by a match and switch off when we're bored.

That Middlesbrough piece is a great piece of emotional writing and most footy fans like ourselves are going to agree with it because its simply true. However we are missing the point and the point is that the game is not really 'produced' for us any more. Clubs like to pretend that we are vital for them when it suits them or they see a fall in their core revenue (gates) but they are pretty much forced to emulate, on whatever scale, the Chelseas and Man Us of this world and forced to produce a product that is packageable & marketable to people who are not necessarily die hard fans of the club. By this we mean, primarily, Sky. (Its not Sky's fault, it could be someone else tomorrow).

Sky I believe started it all off because it turned it into Showbiz. However if they hadn't someone else would have done because these are the times that we live in. We can see this in everything around us. Its only a matter of time before somone prints advertising on toilet paper in order to give it away free and still make a profit. (Nice idea - must put together a business plan).

So sorry chaps. It is not going to change. 'Real' footy fans are going to have to look down the divisions for the sort of committment to the local team that our friend from up north is hunting. We are going to have to change clubs - which of course would make us just as fickle :cry:

Football is now part of the entertainment business.
Last edited by Dubai Blue on Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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John
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Post by John » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:10 am

he does make some valid points,however some should ring the samaritan's,this guy is going to jump :shock:

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Earl Blue
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Post by Earl Blue » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:21 am

john_ipsw2 wrote:he does make some valid points,however some should ring the samaritan's,this guy is going to jump :shock:

Well I think you could be right there mate. I have to say whether
or not individuals agree with this persons comments or not, here
certainly deserves a medal for the amount of time must
of spent writing that, and no doubt he is one hell of a passionate
supporter...


There are so many things he says there, which are true in my opinion
but IMHO the feelings that a person like this has can only come
from someone who has been watching or following his team since
the old days shall we say 70-80's...

I know that I a guilty of many long posts, its hard when you need to get
something off your chest like this, but hopefully that person
will feel better (well a little anyway).

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Post by Anglo-Saxon » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:23 am

Earl Blue wrote:
john_ipsw2 wrote:he does make some valid points,however some should ring the samaritan's,this guy is going to jump :shock:

Well I think you could be right there mate. I have to say whether
or not individuals agree with this persons comments or not, here
certainly deserves a medal for the amount of time must
of spent writing that, and no doubt he is one hell of a passionate
supporter...


There are so many things he says there, which are true in my opinion
but IMHO the feelings that a person like this has can only come
from someone who has been watching or following his team since
the old days shall we say 70-80's...

I know that I a guilty of many long posts, its hard when you need to get
something off your chest like this, but hopefully that person
will feel better (well a little anyway).
I thought it was a fantastc read, I bet alot of us (older ones) have felt just like that now and again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Riviera
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Post by Riviera » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:28 am

Earl Blue wrote:
john_ipsw2 wrote:he does make some valid points,however some should ring the samaritan's,this guy is going to jump :shock:

Well I think you could be right there mate. I have to say whether
or not individuals agree with this persons comments or not, here
certainly deserves a medal for the amount of time must
of spent writing that, and no doubt he is one hell of a passionate
supporter...


There are so many things he says there, which are true in my opinion
but IMHO the feelings that a person like this has can only come
from someone who has been watching or following his team since
the old days shall we say 70-80's...

I know that I a guilty of many long posts, its hard when you need to get
something off your chest like this, but hopefully that person
will feel better (well a little anyway).
spot on earl, as someone whos been watching the game for a while now i can relate to many of the points he makes, it obviously comes straight from the heart

but Dubai Blue makes some valid points as well, we can all look back at how it 'used' to be, but at the end of the day we'd probably not be complaining if we supported the likes of chelski, manure or the arse, football is most definitely a showbiz thing nowadays, us the supporters mean nothing to the clubs, they can make the gate money they get through other means, sponsorship and corporate hospitality probably bring in more money than gate reciepts

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Post by Mork » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:22 am

I read, enjoyed and agreed with much of the post. And I feel for Middlesborough fans, and can empathise with much of what is being said about modern football - we have more than our fair share of parallels with Middlesborough.

Still, I would suggest more than a small part of Middlesboroughs problem is Mclaren. Guy has always played the most terribly boring football, and people who list him as a potential England manager fill me with a kind of dread.

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Post by the-mole » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:06 pm

I think what football clubs, players, managers and chairmen alike seem to forget is that whilst they can bring in more money through sponsorship etc instead of gate receipts it all still boils down to the core fans!!

The core fans are the ones advertisers are targetting, the core fans subscribe to sky sports, the core fans buy merchandise etc!!! Without us core football fans there wouldn't be a sky sports - there would be no market for it - which in turn would mean sky wouldn't be pumping so many millions into the minority of football clubs!!

Remember there are 92 professional clubs out there - yet only 20 of them receive big money from Sky. If the average football fan decided to take his money elsewhere you would find football crumbling. Sky couldn't afford to throw millions at a product people didn't care about, advertisers would sell their stuff elsewhere - football is still a fan run sport - just that the money men seem to be forgetting that.

Whilst players want to dissassociate themselves with fans - they lose more respect from the people that actually turn them into rich bastards!!!

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Post by Mork » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:27 pm

the-mole wrote:I think what football clubs, players, managers and chairmen alike seem to forget is that whilst they can bring in more money through sponsorship etc instead of gate receipts it all still boils down to the core fans!!

The core fans are the ones advertisers are targetting, the core fans subscribe to sky sports, the core fans buy merchandise etc!!! Without us core football fans there wouldn't be a sky sports - there would be no market for it - which in turn would mean sky wouldn't be pumping so many millions into the minority of football clubs!!

Remember there are 92 professional clubs out there - yet only 20 of them receive big money from Sky. If the average football fan decided to take his money elsewhere you would find football crumbling. Sky couldn't afford to throw millions at a product people didn't care about, advertisers would sell their stuff elsewhere - football is still a fan run sport - just that the money men seem to be forgetting that.

Whilst players want to dissassociate themselves with fans - they lose more respect from the people that actually turn them into rich bastards!!!
Agreed, but what Sky has caused is a disproportionate allocation of the money. Fans such as myself, and plenty of others I'm sure on here, pay Sky huge amounts of money, because we love football - but not enough of that money goes to my club, not even proportionally to their league - the premiership get far, far too much, and in the championship, sky quickly pick the side they "fancy" and feature them every other match. If you are Skys team by October, your set for the rest of the season, Sky will show you 3 times as much as anyone else, and the extra cash almost consolidates your position at the top.

This has happened with Portsmouth, Norwich and Sunderland over the last 3 years, and really sticks in my throat. The same happens of course, to an even greater extent with the Premiership, where every other game shown is one of the big four. Who get money - and become even bigger.

Of course, much of this is a result of the fairweather fan, who lives in Essex and claims to support Manchester United - has never been to Old trafford, and knows next to nothing about football, but decides he wants to support a team that wins all the time. Man U aren't the only ones either, look at the sudden emergence of gooners over the last 5 years - every other person you meet claims to be an arsenal fan, yet ten years ago, I didn't know a single one. Same with Chelsea, seems to me a lot of Chelsea fans are crawling out of the woodwork now that they are dominating football.

What's needed is real competition, so I am really glad that Sky is about to lose its monopoly - we want to see football on tv, multiple offerings from diff providors - then we can choose whose doing it best and having the best influence on the game, and give them our money.

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Post by toby » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:28 pm

Great article, great thread.

That guy's views pretty much mirror my own views on football nowadays.

It's been a long time since I had a genuine "favourite" or "hero" at Town, I guess Stewart, Hrreidarsson and Gaardsoe were the last.

Nowadays I get the feeling that the players couldn't give a toss about the fans OR the club, even some of the players that have come up through the youth system (yes Mr Bowditch I'm looking at you!) seem to treat the club and the supporters with nothing but contempt.

Football is a bloated, corpulent sack of sh*t at the moment, the only ray of hope that I can see is the recent formation of fan teams such as AFC Wimbledon and FCUM and that eventually TV/corporations/media multinationals will tire of football (or wring it dry of every penny possible) and then move onto the next cash cow.

Sad as it is the only way for us, football supporters, to get the game back is to vote with our wallets, we have to reign in our instincts for blind faith and stop throwing good money after bad.

I don't want any of my money being paid to footballers who don't want to work for it and don't even appreciate it when they get it.

f*ck'em, f*ck'em all.

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